BS: Political correctness

Subject: BS: Political correctness
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:03 PM

As a number of US members write with affection about President Harry Truman, I though you might get a smile out of this exchange with General McArthur.

What is the definition of the term Political Correctness!

Maybe the following is closer to the definition than what is in any book in a library.

The copies of four telegrams that were sent between President Harry Truman and General Douglas MacArthur on the day before the actual signing of the Japanese surrender agreement, at the end the second world war.

The contents of those four telegrams below are exactly as received, not a word has been added or deleted!

(1) Tokyo, Japan
0800-September 1,1945
To: President Harry S Truman
From: General D A MacArthur
Tomorrow we meet with those yellow bellied bastards and sign the Surrender Documents, any last minute instructions!

(2) Washington, D C
1300-September 1, 1945
To: D A MacArthur
From: H S Truman
Congratulations, job well done, but you must tone down your obvious dislike of the Japanese when discussing the terms of the surrender with the press, because some of your remarks are fundamentally not politically correct!

(3) Tokyo, Japan
1630-September 1, 1945
To: H S Truman
From: D A MacArthur and C H Nimitz
Wilco Sir, but both Chester and I are somewhat confused, exactly what does the term politically correct mean?

(4) Washington, D C
2120-September 1, 1945
To: D A MacArthur/C H Nimitz
From: H S Truman
Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end!

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:10 PM

False

By Internet standards, this quip about political correctness is nearly ancient. Versions of it dating to 2006 and 2007 are easily located, attributed at least twice to students of Texas A&M University. It surfaced again in a 2012 Townhall column that lauded it while also describing it as an "old Internet joke". Although the joke's origins may be murky,
the anachronisms involved in attributing it to President Truman are obvious.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:14 PM

Very amusing, especially considering that they'd just immolated hundreds of thousands of yellow-bellied bastards about three weeks earlier. Why, I think I might have just split my corset laughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:17 PM

Well, at least what I said wasn't false, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 04:32 PM

I have no idea of the veracity of the exchange, it was sent to me by friends in Australia....

I did have friends who fought the Japanese in Burma, they told me of the unspeakable atrocities perpetrated there by the Japanese army.
I think the use the nuclear weapons by America at the end of WW2 was a war crime....as was the firebombing of Dresden by the British.

However there is humour in the exchange when applied to PC in general terms.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,#
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 05:01 PM

Regardless the veracity of the 'telegrams', it sounds like things MacArthur and Truman would have said. As Snopes says, the giveaway is the use of 'mainstream media'. That said, I find the last exchange funny.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:13 PM

I demur.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:35 PM

The definitive antidote to the far-right's panic-mongering about "PC" is Brian Siano's article The Great Political Correctness Conspiracy Hoax, Or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Thought Police:

http://www.skeptic.com/magazine/archives/4.3/

It's no longer publicly available for free but I can supply a copy of a revised and enlarged version (160K, HTML) to anyone who's interested.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:41 PM

It's here on archive.org:

The Great Political Correctness Panic

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:50 PM

I have no idea of the veracity of the exchange

And you care even less, right?

Jesus wept.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:56 PM

Well Greg, I just received it and presumed it was true but as # says, the last part is funny......and an accurate description of Political Correctness :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 06:57 PM

Loosen up Mr Grumpy!!

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 07:26 PM

So you can find something funny in a story you believed to be true which involved two powerful men in a disrespectful exchange about the Japanese people three weeks after they'd massacred hundreds of thousands of them. I think that speaks volumes about your poor judgement. As for me, I'd a thousand times rather be grumpy than be like you.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 08:14 PM

Mr. Shaw,

We are brothers.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Don't expect a hug, money or kiss.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Airymouse
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 08:44 PM

OFF TOPIC(Something Truman really did say)
I have a friend whose ex-husband had the awkward job of explaining Harry Truman's funeral arrangements to Truman and making sure that Truman approved of the arrangements. When my friend's ex finished his description of the plans, all Truman said was, "It sounds like a grand show. I wish I could be there."

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 08:49 PM

He should have conferred with Woody Allen, who said he wasn't scared of dying but he just didn't want to be there when it happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,#
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 10:40 PM

Greg F: Check your email.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,#
Date: 28 Apr 15 - 11:14 PM

And BTW, I still think the last exchange was funny. For the reading impaired, the last exchange was

(3) Tokyo, Japan
1630-September 1, 1945
To: H S Truman
From: D A MacArthur and C H Nimitz
Wilco Sir, but both Chester and I are somewhat confused, exactly what does the term politically correct mean?

(4) Washington, D C
2120-September 1, 1945
To: D A MacArthur/C H Nimitz
From: H S Truman
Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end!

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 01:19 AM

I can't tell you what funny is but I know it when I see it. This isn't funny.

For one thing, this is a seriously misleading definition of political correctness: "Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end!"

The online dictionary says that political correctness is "demonstrating progressive ideals, esp by avoiding vocabulary that is considered offensive, discriminatory, or judgmental, esp concerning race and gender."

In other words political correctness is a civilised way of being polite. Were I, personally, not so civilised, I would be a lot less polite.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 01:57 AM

True, Ebbie; and I agree up to a fair point. But the phrase does nevertheless unarguably carry an unfortunate overtone of avoidance of offence to the undesirable length of avoiding necessary frankness or calling things by their right name: a sort of nervous falling over backwards which inhibits candid expression of the truth in some circumstances. It is thus, by its customary tone and usage, a pejorative phrase.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 02:01 AM

True, Mike. But that is a fault in ourselves, not in the concept or ideal.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 02:19 AM

"Political Correctness is a doctrine, recently fostered by a delusional, illogical minority
and promoted by a sick mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition
that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of shit by the clean end!"

whether or not it was truly said in 1945...

it just reads like the confused reactionary nonsense of some smug arse who thinks he is being clever and witty...???

..about normal for mudcat really....😜

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 03:33 AM

The opening poster is well known for not letting truth or sensitivity get in the way of his odious views.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Musket
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 03:45 AM

Assuming this urban myth just happened to be a true exchange. Just supposing.

The final memo from the President could be viewed as taking the piss and putting the general down.

As it is, this would be a non debate anyway as such made-up nonsense is written to flush out those impressed by it. In that, it seems to be bang on the money. I suppose next week, we might get this exchange doing the rounds again.

Back when The UK was negotiating with Nasser over The Suez.

"Sir! Three wogs to see you!"

"Do you mind! Kindly give courtesy of rank to the President!"

"Sir! President Nasser and two other wogs to see you!"



Like the Japanese surrender exchange, urban myth designed to impress shallow bigots.

I am still laughing at how the little people think normal intelligent people would believe or be taken in by it.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 03:57 AM

"Loosen up Mr Grumpy!!"
Yeah - and enter into the spirit of the occasion - after all, they're only foreigners!
"Like the Japanese surrender exchange, urban myth designed to impress shallow bigots."
Certainly rung this one's bell
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 04:27 AM

The Second World War was a deadly conflict during which millions of people died. Racism and xenophobia motivated many of the participants - showing that these human 'foibles' can have deadly consequences. So- called 'political correctness' is just a recently devised mechanism for putting some sort of brake on those odious foibles. Awareness of political correctness should, at least, make those prone to racism and xenophobia think before they open their big mouths (assuming they are capable of thought, of course). If political correctness upsets and irritates shallow bigots, such as akenaton, that's a small price to pay, surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 05:51 AM

The online dictionary says that political correctness is "demonstrating progressive ideals, esp by avoiding vocabulary that is considered offensive, discriminatory, or judgmental, esp concerning race and gender."

Which is simply somebody attempting a bit of damage control over a piece of ideological bullshit perpetrated by the American far right. You might as well try to put a positive spin on the concepts of "Negro sense of rhythm" or "Jewish greed".

There is no need EVER to use the phrase. Just bury it.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 07:24 AM

How about "Scottish thrift" ?

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 07:29 AM

I'm with Jack (not literally - he's at least 100 miles further north). I always understood political correctness to be a right wing reactionary construct invented as a way of putting down and undermining progressive ideas like anti-racism and feminism. And if that's not how it originated, it's certainly what it's become. A bit like how Nigel Flange and Jeremy Clarkson and their ilk invent supposedly all-powerful liberal straw men to rail against to order to demonstrate to the gullible what anti-establishment wadical webels they are, whilst actually espousing pro-establishment views.

As my old mam never said, "I'm not politically correct - I'm just correct."

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Ed T
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 07:45 AM

An interesting column on political correctness, stimulated by a Cornell University research project:

Oliver Burkeman on political correctness 

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 07:45 AM

Most of what the press in the UK pick up on as 'political correctness', especially from the public sector, seems to me to reflect not 'progressive ideals' but the opposite - people who are not sure what might be "considered offensive, discriminatory, or judgmental" using silly vocabulary to be on the safe side. The 'we are not allowed to say that any more' crowd.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 07:49 AM

What does surprise me is that anyone finds it accepable to apply a derogatory label to a whole section of human beings based simply on their race, colour, creed or sexuality. Mind you, it shouldn't surprise me considering...

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 10:21 AM

.. reminds me of when we were late 1970s / early 1980s students in the process of becoming politicised
in favour of progressive socialist politics;

..how the term 'ideologically correct' was something we used as an ironic piss take
for those amongst us who put blind adherence to extreme theoretical political dogma
before personal critical thought about the positive leftist politics we were newly discovering and accepting...

Same as how the mainly positive impulse behind what is popularly denigrated as 'PC'
can be warped and distorted into petty administrative risk adverse rules and regulations,
by timid over obedient jobsworth local officials afraid of insurance companies
and profiteering claims chasing lawyers.....😣

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 11:22 AM

Most of what the press in the UK pick up on as 'political correctness', especially from the public sector, seems to me to reflect not 'progressive ideals' but the opposite - people who are not sure what might be "considered offensive, discriminatory, or judgmental" using silly vocabulary to be on the safe side. The 'we are not allowed to say that any more' crowd.

That's just a refinement of the same reactionary ideological programme. Genuinely progressive initiatives to counter insult, aggression and discrimination against non-elite groups are identified with self-serving attempts by public sector bureaucrats to make themselves even less accountable than they already are by making any challenge to their authority into a game of Simon Says.

And the reactionary myth-mongers (people like James Delingpole) typically hype up "we aren't allowed to say that any more" into heights of delusional unreality, inventing prohibitions that never existed or twisting an unexceptionable challenge to authority into some sort of Inquisition. Siano's article describes the process as it operated 20 years ago and the strategy hasn't changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 11:51 AM

oops.. this is a prime example of loony left copy and paste editing gone mad...

I'd meant to post:

"Same as how the mainly positive impulse behind what is popularly denigrated as
"'PC' and 'Health & Safety' gone mad"..".....

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 12:35 PM

MORE FACTS NOT TO RESPOND TO
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 01:09 PM

Define "progressive", Blair's New Labour were supposed to be "progressive"....as opposed to socialist.
They vilified Foot and others like him.

What we really need is a bit of radicalism in our politics.
And a bit of conservatism in our social mores.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 01:15 PM

the big warning sign should have been when tories were abandoning the sinking ship
and defecting to Blair's labour party...

Wonder how influential they were to the dire state of New labour in the latter years...???

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: GUEST,Sol
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 02:00 PM

I highly suspected there was something fishy going on when The Sun started backing Labour & Tory Blair.

Subject: RE: BS: Political correctness
From: Musket
Date: 29 Apr 15 - 02:01 PM

If you have conservatism in your social mores, there are ointments you can get. A course of Amoxycillin wouldn't go amiss either.

There was a time, back when education was not as good as it should be that shallow people cried "political correctness!" when they were afraid of equality.

Given their views, rightly so...