BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 15 - 11:25 AM

"has nothing to gain by exaggerating the negative effects of immigration."
It has everything to gain - while the immigrants are being blamed it diverts attention from the fact that unemployment is caused by bad government policies - lazy workers, irresponsible Trades Unions - now immigrants - "nuffin' to do wiv us guv!!".
Election promises - nobody taks them seriously do they?
Five years to the next alection - politicians dpn't give a toss for what those who voted them in think.
Can't get the clickie to work, but try this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/immigration-to-britain-has-not-increased-unemployment-or-reduced-wages-study-finds-10075047.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Musket
Date: 15 May 15 - 01:09 PM

You know.. I appreciate that healthcare is not the same as some industries and doctors especially have a much higher immigrant score, due to many factors but mainly poor workforce planning and frankly, piss poor school education, hence mainly public school and those from societies with a high education ethic such as India a Sub continent, Asia etc get most of the medical school places...

But..

Whilst some like to find blame for the country they read about that doesn't actually exist, does it? And whilst some need to know their lives have been someone else's fault..

Mrs Musket and I are of the clinical community and many of our friends weren't born here. I love that when we hold a BBQ for friends and colleagues, we have a fire going with meat from the local farm shop, a fire going with halal meat, a vegetarian fire, a bar table, an imaginative soft drinks table (some great alcohol free punches in the old repertoire these days) and you know what?

I feel sorry for those who live in whatever country The Daily M*il reports about. They should live in The UK. It's great. Although certain sections, led sadly by the government need to learn manners and be more welcoming to those who want to work, whether they be born in Hereford, Hertford or Hari fucking Krishna.

I'm a bit fed up over this. Perhaps Keith could be useful and Google whether immigration has had a net contribution or a net drain on the economy? I know the answer but being an inclusive chap, I don't mind others getting the glory.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 15 - 01:50 PM

Furious Ed Miliband has said he will ban firms like Next from advertising jobs abroad before they are offered to British workers

How on earth will he do that? This , for instance, can be reached from anywhere in the world. As can this one in Germany. Or this one in Poland. Miliband jumped on the scaremongering bandwagon and paid the price. You can no more ban advertising jobs abroad than you can stop politicians lying. More obfuscation and nonsense from the popular press.

And of course the present administration wants to draw attention to immigration. It is the easiest way to put people off the real issues of financial and administrative mismanagement that have brought the economy to it's knees.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 15 - 01:52 PM

Me above. Seems if I put my Guest handle in the post does not take :-( Tried it about 6 times from both Firefox and Chrome and from work and home. Anyone any explanation? :-S

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 15 - 01:53 PM

...although it did then. Hmmmm. Mudcat works in mysterious ways!

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Musket
Date: 15 May 15 - 02:24 PM

Perhaps my son should have been stopped from applying for the post doc post in California he just applied for??

Just proof that for politicians, getting votes is easy. Tell them whatever they want to believe. You don't have to actually carry out what you can't anyway.

I always worked on the assumption nobody was shallow enough or gullible enough to see it as anything but bluster.

But then I logged into Mudcat...

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 May 15 - 02:59 PM

"Furious Ed Miliband has said he will ban firms like Next from advertising jobs abroad before they are offered to British workers"

NEXT
"In May 2014 the Living Wage Foundation bought Next shares and attended the Annual meeting in an attempt to persuade the company to pay at least £6.70 and become one of the UK's 700 living wage employers. Next was targeted because it claimed to be a good employer and was thriving. Professor Sir George Bain who set the minimum wage in 1999 said employers could afford to pay much more but acknowledged enforcement could cause unemployment in the retail sector. In October 2014, the company was one of several retailers criticised by Janice Turner in The Times for failing to pay a living wage. UK taxpayers pay £28billion to low paid workers and Turner says retail companies -which have the highest proportion of low paid workers -are exploiting austerity and effectively adding staff wages to the UK welfare bill. When asked why, despite record profits their lowest paid workers were so poorly paid, Next replied that they had 30 applicants for every job advertised."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 May 15 - 03:38 PM

Musket - Like :-)

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 May 15 - 05:19 PM

whats happening in Boston is easily observable, and was brought to my attention a few years ago when spent an evening with an old school friend , famous on the folk scene, who had stayed in the town that i left aged fifteen.

check out the late night police procedural program late night on satellite tv following round lincolnshire police cars - not many Linclonshire accents there. pretty much confirms everything i was told.

of course you're right. things tend to work themselves out. the early days of Jamaicans - when lots of unattached men were coming over were famously rumbustious.

societies have to change. not much fun to be in the heart of that change.

the first time i went ireland, i stayed with a jamaican family who were fed up with the racism of Irish people and were getting out - coming back to England. from what they told me i don't think you be so self righteous Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Musket
Date: 16 May 15 - 03:39 AM

Boston once imprisoned William Brewster and Thomas Bradford for religious oppression and intimidating normal people, after the authorities around here failed.

Are you telling me something has happened there since Al?

I used to know a young lady from Boston who went around folk festivals with a tight T Shirt with "Tremblers" written on it. Purely out of non interest.

I was brought up in an area where Polish, Ukrainians and others had huge numbers, their own working mens clubs and brought their culture with them.

In 1945

The pits didn't implode. Ferrets didn't move to the Home Counties in disgust and black pudding didn't become smokey flavoured.

Perhaps some in Boston are pointing all six fingers unwisely....

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 04:35 AM

"i don't think you be so self righteous Jim."
I have never suggested that there is no racism in Ireland Al - on the contrary, I have raised it, particularly in regard to Travellers, on numerous occasions.
Of course there is racism here - mainly in the cities - last year I pointed out that Loyalist groups up North (in the English bit of Ireland) with time on their hands were active in burning out Europe families who had settled there.
What you don't have here to any extent is institutional racism by the authorities - still rife in Britain, particularly in the police force.
You don't have political parties going to election on a racist or anti-immigration ticket - commonplace in Britain.
You don't have massive campaigns by the media against foreigners and immigrants that I view regularly in 'The Times (one of the better English tabloids which I take daily for the Quizword!)
I make no special case for Ireland - racism is evil wherever it happens, and if it ever becomes a major problem here, I'll be first up on the soapbox.
Do not accuse me of being self-righteous - I'm a Brit living in Ireland and I hold no brief for what I believe to be wrong, wherever it happens
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 16 May 15 - 05:09 AM

Jim is right there is racism everywhere. Which bring me to a story I heard last week. One of my friends has a daughter on university exchange in Boston. That is Boston in the States of course not Lincolnshire. Anyway she's tried to get involved in lots of things and went along to an anti-racism group meeting with one of her new American friends. It turns out that she was the only white person at the meeting and she said that she was basically shunned by the bulk of the group and a few of whom were openly hostile to her. She had never experienced anything like it before and was quite upset. Her friend explained that because some members didn't like speaking in front of members of the oppressive white majority they normally weren't invited to attend and the only reason they even let her in was because she was foreign. No amount of talking could convince her friend the absurdity of the idea that people should be excluded from an anti-racism meeting because of their race!

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 15 - 05:15 AM

So, Al, you still have not told us how you or your friend knew that the people you observed running out of the shop were east Europeans. You are now telling us that an entertainment program which shows a number of, shall we say, interesting cases is proof that there are hoards of immigrants looting and pillaging their way across Lincolnshire. Have you read nothing anyone has said about the media demonising immigrants? Do you think it would make good TV if they went into a Polish household and showed them making the tea? Do you really believe that because a TV program shows a few Lithuanian criminals it must be representative of the whole culture? Or that that culture has a higher proportion of criminals that any other? Shame on you.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 15 - 05:28 AM

This is not about racism, and not about the Daily Mail which no-one has quoted once.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 15 - 05:41 AM

Signed back in now - Found out that Guests cannot post multiple links. Although I did seem to get round it :-S

Keith - I know your last post was not addressed to me but when someone starts to suggest that immigrants are more likely to be criminals than the indigenous population then I am afraid it is racism. I know that was not you and, even though I believe you are politically and economically wrong about immigration, I do not think you are being racist about it. That is Big Al.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 06:11 AM

"This is not about racism"
Racism goes through British politics like Blackpool goes through rock - sadly.
It is certainly a part of the debate on immigration which is linked to this thread by Millipede's "championing of immigration controls".
As for the bum-wipe Daily Mail - part and parcel of racism and anti-immigration in Britain - and has been quoted once and mentioned in passing twice.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 08:29 AM

So it's OK to refer to Ed Milliband as "Millipede", but not to refer to Chuka Umunna as "Chuka Banana". That is lefty logic is it???

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 15 - 08:38 AM

Neither is even remotely OK in my opinion. The latter is worse because of its racist overtones. Both are easily avoided, which I think is the point.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 08:47 AM

Why should they be avoided Mr Seesaw?? That is my point.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 09:04 AM

"Chuka Banana". That is lefty logic is it???
Chucka Banana - and such mudslinging is historically a racist term
That's common sense nothing to do with being 'leftie'
I'm sure everbody is aware of the gold old English practice of throwing nuts and bananas on the pitch at football matches when black players are playing
No racism in calling politicians insects - most of them are worms
Jim Carroll

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2616673/Football-fan-accused-throwing-banana-Dani-Alves-arrested-Spain-inciting-hatred.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4046821/Twenty-four-years-after-racist-football-fans-threw-bananas-at-John-Barnes-how-

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 09:19 AM

Am I supposted to be a football fan Mr Barrell? - I can assure you I'm not, so the nuts and bananas thing is news to me.

NEITHER AM I OBSESSED WITH FINDING RACISM IN EVERYTHING SAID.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 15 - 09:50 AM

The Daily Mail has not been quoted once on this thread, except by you Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 15 - 09:59 AM

this is bollocks. i could tell you i spotted high slavic cheekbones and heard Polish accents - but i'm not a liar. i just tell you something i saw and you say i'm a racist.

its this sort of dumb abuse that leads to people leaving mudcat.

how come the BNP   attacked me and made me a target of their internet smear campaign - not the gnomic utterances of Dave, or the oh so telling 16th century traditional folksingers? why - cos i tell it like it is - and frankly that makes you just as much an enemy of the truth as the BNP/UKIP bastards.

comparing a settled Polish community to what has happened in lincolnshire is nonsense. because of European legislation its more like the Klondike goldrush. and Boston by all accounts has more than its share of Eastern european Dangerous Dan McGrews.

in the nottinghamshire village i lived in for thirty years i was always an outsider. we were a lancashire/irish family n moving to Boston during the war, we were outsiders. in the nottinghamshire village - thugs attacked the Asian family's children - the people who took over the newsagents shop. villages, Jim , can be foul styes of racial intolerance.

finally for you keith, who complains there is not enough about the daily mail - here is a short poem i wrote last year

Ed Milliband is a Bastard

Ed Milliband is a bastard
We call him Ed the Red
And if he gets elected
You'll wish that you were dead.
He has bad breath and dandruff
His farts are loud and smelly
He is much more objectionable
Than he looks on telly
But you can read the sorry facts
Behind Ed's dismal tale
Its there with all the gossip
In tomorrow's Daily Mail

Ed Milliband is a stinker
lets stick to all the facts
He looks like he's a paedo
And he's bound to charge more tax
He'll give back all the loot Brave Maggie won
From all those nasty frogs
He'll build luxury homes and give out cash
To all the scrounging wogs
But more will be revealed my friends
Next week in The mail, you'll see
Moreover we will give away
A brand new DVD

Ed Milliband is a stinker
He's run by Moscow central
We should hang, draw and quarter him
And then burn his entrails
Theres rumours about his drinking
the parties and the drugs
And that isn't his real hair, you know
he has to wear a rug
We've seen the picture of Stalin
That every night he kisses
Not to mention the heroes graves
On which regularly he pisses
But theres more revelations
so watch now without fail
All the front page news my friend
In next years Daily Mail.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 15 - 10:36 AM

They should be avoided, depending on context of course, for the same reason that medical textbooks don't refer to cocks, tits, bumholes, bollocks and fannies. Note that I didn't say MUST be avoided. Though if you do use pejorative phrases instead of real names for persons who are not in a position to answer back, you may be in danger of saying more about yourself than about them. As with the Daily Mail, for example, calling Miliband "Red Ed", which tells us all we ever need to know about the Daily Mail but precious little about Miliband. However, it's a free country. Though references to bananas or monkeys in the context of black people tend to brand you a racist. Of course, if that's what you want...

It's Steve, by the way. Stephen if you're my mother. You're not, are you?

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 15 - 11:28 AM

i just tell you something i saw and you say i'm a racist.

No, you didn't, Al. You said you saw some east European immigrants looting a shop. You never told us how you knew they were east European immigrants. If you only assumed they were east European because they were looting then, yes, you are being racist. I always think the best about people and have always found you honest and open before so it was with great regret that I had to condemn the comment as racist. Tell us how you know they were east European and prove it was not a racist comment or accept that it was and apologise for it. Seemples, as the east European animals taking over our TV say...

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 11:43 AM

" I can assure you I'm not, so the nuts and bananas thing is news to me. "
Me neither Mr Bozo - but I tend to live on planet earth and read newspapers and am fully aware of the frequency of such behaviour, and the fact that "banana-eating savages" has been in existence as a racist slur for most of my long life.
I am also aware that a trial has not long taken place of a bunch of footballers using such a slur, so it is not "rfinding" things in anything - is is the stark reality of some people's lives in today's Britain - if you don't have to live with it, others have to.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 12:20 PM

No, thank goodness our multicultural street full of very nice people who do not have to live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 15 - 12:46 PM

Al, I did not complain that Daily Mail was not quoted, I just refuted claims that it was.
Good poem though.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 12:55 PM

Corretion - No, thank goodness our multicultural street IS full of very nice people who do not have to live with it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:11 PM

just go there and see for yourself , Dave. talk to the people.

i didn't make a note and codify what i saw, but that was the very strong impression i got.

you're too handy with that racist insult. it is grossly insulting, and why the fuck should i lie. it goes against everything politically i would wish to be so. but that's how it was and how it is.

its an inconvenient truth, but it remains a truth. i will not retract it because you're too disinterested in the facts.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Musket
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:20 PM

Whether something gets a label called racist or not, it isn't the label but the contents.

Calling Milliband Millipede doesn't say anything about his race, religion, physical or mental ability, gender or sexual orientation. It is pure satire of someone who wants to govern and by that, he needs scrutiny. Satire helps understanding by light relief.

Bringing a banana into it? Fine, assuming you mean David Milliband and the awkward photo of him with a banana.

But to remind people that someone is black?

I wondered who it was that threw bananas at John Barnes years ago..

By the way Keith. You mention Daily M*il in every single post. It doesn't necessarily mean Dacre's puerile shit, it means content worthy of his pathetic organ. By squawking that you never mentioned it doesn't mean you aren't paraphrasing it.

And Polly isn't a pretty fucking boy then.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:24 PM

"you're too handy with that racist insult. "
"i spotted high slavic cheekbones and heard Polish accents "
Hmmm!!
No hooked noses and waving scimitars?
I wonder if they spoke with local accents would you have described them as indigenous criminals?
All communities have their share of criminality - the fact that some of them come from immigrant ones says nothing about the communities - but it does about those who make a point bringing race and country of origin into the conversation
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:46 PM

FOR FUCK SAKE, THE REASON I USED BANANA IS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO UMUNNA AND FOR NO OTHER REASON WHATSOFUCKINGEVER - GET IT INTO YOUR LEFTY SKULLS. I DO NOT EAT DRINK AND SLEEP RACE, LIKE YOU SEEM TO - VERY VERY SAD INDEED.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:53 PM

Bonzo daft person, if you think 'banana' sounds like 'umunna' you probably need your ears syringed, or your brain removed with a hook via your nostrils.

What a nasty piece of work you are!

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:55 PM

By the way Keith. You mention Daily M*il in every single post.

I have not mentioned it at all except to refute that anyone quoted it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:56 PM

No it doesn't, not very much. But banana goes with his first name, not his surname, as a play on words which is out-and-out racist when referring to a black man. It actually sounds to me like you do eat, drink and sleep race as, unlike most of us, you search around for an insulting stereotype instead of just using the bloke's name.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 May 15 - 01:58 PM

'umunna' sounds closer to banana than any other word, or name, that I can think of.
Anyone got a better match?

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 May 15 - 02:05 PM

read my post more carefully.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 May 15 - 02:09 PM

Hardly the point, Keith. It's his name. There is no reason on earth to change it. Especially for an unfunny and severely misfiring "joke".

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Mod
Date: 16 May 15 - 02:44 PM

'umunna' sounds closer to banana than any other word, or name, that I can think of.
Anyone got a better match?


Try bandana, Diana, savannah, cabana, Havana, Fontana for starters (obviously depedent upon Brit of US pronunciation).

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: GUEST,Modette
Date: 16 May 15 - 02:45 PM

Sorry, the 'Mod' was me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 May 15 - 03:23 PM

"THE REASON I USED BANANA IS BECAUSE IT SOUNDS VERY SIMILAR TO UMUNNA"
"'umunna' sounds closer to banana than any other word, or name, that I can think of."
Snap - two idiots in the same deal
VERY VERY FUNNY INDEED.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Return!....of....New Labour!!!
From: Musket
Date: 16 May 15 - 03:32 PM

Sniff Sniff.

A bit of a stench around here.

Sad.