Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms

Subject: RE: Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms
From: Mr Red
Date: 30 Aug 17 - 03:57 AM

Wiki on Thomas Moore (he did appear in a production of the "Rivals")
Wiki on Believe me if all those Endearing Young Charms (published in 1808 FWIW).

Subject: ADD: Fair Harvard
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Aug 17 - 02:46 AM

Now, how many of us knew that Fair Harvard the alma mater of Harvard University, is sung to the tune of "Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms"? I think maybe that piece of information was buried somewhere back in my brain, but I wasn't aware of it.
I came across the song this evening, and thought I should post it. Hell, it beats "Fight Fiercely, Harvard," doesn't it? Or does it?

FAIR HARVARD
(The Reverend Samuel Gilman, class of 1811)

Fair Harvard! thy sons to thy Jubilee throng,
And with blessings surrender thee o'er
By these festival rites, from the age that is past,
To the age that is waiting before.
O relic and type of our ancestors' worth
That hast long kept their memory warm,
First flow'r of their wilderness! Star of their night!
Calm rising thro' change and thro' storm.

To thy bow'rs we were led in the bloom of our youth,
From the home of our infantile years,
When our fathers had warn'd, and our mothers had pray'd,
And our sisters had blest thro' their tears.
Thou then wert our parent, the nurse of our soul;
We were molded to manhood by thee,
Till freighted with treasure thoughts, friendships and hopes,
Thou didst launch us on Destiny's sea.

When as pilgrims we come to revisit thy halls,
To what kindlings the season gives birth!
Thy shades are more soothing, thy sunlight more dear,
Than descend on less privileged earth.
For the good and the great, in their beautiful prime,
Thro' thy precincts have musingly trod,
As they girded their spirits or deepen'd the streams
That make glad the fair city of God.

Farewell! be thy destinies onward and bright!
To thy children the lesson still give,
With freedom to think, and with patience to bear,
And for right ever bravely to live.
Let not moss-covered error moor thee at its side,
As the world on truth's current glides by
Be the herald of light, and the bearer of love,
Till the stock of the Puritans die.

---

and the 1998 revision:

Fair Harvard! we join in thy Jubilee throng,
And with blessings surrender thee o'er
By these Festival-rites, from the Age that is past,
To the Age that is waiting before.
O Relic and Type of our ancestors' worth,
That hast long kept their memory warm,
First flow'r of their wilderness! Star of their night!
Calm rising thro' change and through storm.

Farewell! be thy destinies onward and bright!
To thy children the lesson still give,
With freedom to think, and with patience to bear,
And for Right ever bravely to live.
Let not moss-covered Error moor thee at its side,
As the world on Truth's current glides by,
Be the herald of Light, and the bearer of Love,
Till the stock of the Puritans die.


You might enjoy this article: "Fair Harvard": Irish Origin of the Tune, by W. H. Grattan Flood

Subject: RE: Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms
From: Barry Finn
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:32 PM

This tune was also used for the verses (not the chorus, which is from "Jock Stewart") of the rather rare casptan shanty (see Doerflinger p. 149) "The First of the Emigrants" or also knw as "I'm leaving old England" use durning the Australian Gold Rush era of 1851 to 1854.

Barry

Subject: RE: Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 04:01 PM

Maudlin or dated, as some say of it, this tune has a very long recorded history. Someone must have loved it. I recall seeing an old Victor record of the song in my grandfather's house in southeast Texas in the 1940's. My father said it was there when he was a boy, circa 1914-20. It was, apparently, one of my grandmother's very favorite songs and was loved, before that, by her mother. The recording was made on the heavy old rubber-like material where they only recorded on one side of the disc. I think the most recent rendition I have heard was by The Irish Tenors a couple of years ago.

Subject: RE: Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Ch
From: GUEST,roj
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 10:19 AM

Vin Garbutt's version/explanation are worth a listen on "Plugged"

Subject: RE: Req:Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 07:45 AM

For those who care about singing a song exactly the way it was written—

Verse 1 line 3 should be

"Were to change by to morrow, and fleet in my arms"

And verse 2 line 5 should begin with "Oh!", not "No".

The Levy collection has 4 different editions of the sheet music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Lesley N.
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 07:10 PM

In fact, Wellington was a notorious philanderer and his relationship with his wife was publicly known to be terrible. The quote about Moore's writing it for Welington and his wife was perpetrated by me - I got it from "Dear Harp Of My Country," by James Flannery. It's an excellent resource for Moore's music (comes with 2 CDs) - but clearly one should not take the history at face value. (I suspected the error when I read a bio of Wellington and further research "case serious doubt" on the fact as well.) Very nice romantic tale - but not true.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Bruce O.
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 06:38 PM

All the tunes used by John Gay in his 3 ballad operas of 1728, 1729, and 1733 are indexed in the ballad opera tune index on my website, and none contain "My Lodging is on the cold ground", and the newer tune of that title (used by Moore) was unknown at the time. One ballad opera, of 1737 calls for but doesn't give the (old) tune.

The title of the book of 1790 (for I loe no a laddie) is clearly stated in my note above.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Mick Lowe
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 06:17 PM

TUT TUT TUT..
You obviously haven't been visiting the Prof's Featured Song page which you can access via this < a href="http://www.prof.co.uk/irish1.htm"> Prof's Irish Site , otherwise you'd know all about this particular tune/song as it was featured in October. Moore's wife never suffered from small pox by the way Bseed..
John Gay used the melody long before Moore for as has been said "My Lodging is on the Cold Ground", but as he never wrote a tune in his life he obviously "stole" the melody from elsewhere.. the big mystery is .. where?
Bruce, I'm interested in the reference you have to "I loe no a ladie but ain".. though the date of 1790 suggests it's around the same time as Gay came up with "Lodging".. I've seen references to an even earlier date.. but alas without specifics.
By the way you can get the sheet music from the Prof if you're interested..
And by the way, by the way.. December's featured song is another "classic".. i.e. The Snowy-Breasted Pearl..
I've bored you enough..
I've gone
Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 12:26 PM

I thought I posted a response to you last night, John. The story was told in a thread called something like "Best Love Songs," one of those I wish I had on my tracer. As I recall, Moore's beloved wife had contracted smallpox and was fearful that the disease would make her ugly in her husband's eyes...a truly beautiful reassurance. Does anyone have that thread on their tracer? It would be a great one to refresh (or perhaps someone could post a link directly to the discussion of the song?).

--seed

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 30 Nov 99 - 02:36 AM

Ah, but we're still missing the VERY BEST part, and that is the truly inspirational reason why Thomas Moore penned the lyrics in the first instance. This was my very favourite song when I was a kid. I love it even more now that I know the history. If I can just find the original thread on this subject? The person who submitted the thread should get the kudos - I'll find it as soon as I can. Regards, John.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Cara
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 10:29 PM

Funny, I always knew this as just a poem. I'll definitely seek out the tune now. The words are very beautiful.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 10:18 PM

when a song is that pretty, two verses will do. Yes, there are only two verses.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Dale Rose
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:55 PM

For recordings, the absolute BEST, hands down (my opinion, of course) is that of John McCormack, though I have friends who perform it as an instrumental fiddle tune. I'd rather hear them do it, actually.

I just listened to McCormack's recording (16 Mar 1911) and he sings it exactly as the sheet music except it sounds as though he is saying mine arms rather than my arms. Not much to quibble about, anyhow. It is available on John McCormack, My Wild Irish Rose, BMG Classical 09026-68668-2, 1997 and on John McCormack, Irish Song, Pearl/GEMM 9338, 1988.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:31 PM

Yup, that's what happened. By the way, that should read "...and is..." and not "...and dis..."

One other thing: I remember that in the songbook we used around the piano had the next to the last line of the first verse as "And around the dear ruin, each beat of my heart" instead of "...wish...> I remember this quite distinctly because I got to thinking the word was "bead" and I wondered what the heck a heartbead was.

And aren't there more than two verses?

--seed

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Dale Rose
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:21 PM

try this one instead, BSeed. This link skips the cover and goes right to the first sheet of lyrics. They are usually a smaller size, which might give it a better chance of loading for you. As usual, don't expect visual miracles from Levy, and I don't think it is at Duke or LOC.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: BSer
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:21 PM

BSeed sure knows how to kill an information thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:15 PM

Gawd, I hate AOL. They seem to be disabling 3.0 so everyone has to use 4.0--which causes my computer to crash about three times a night and dis far slower than 3.0. I followed Dale's link but could only get part of the first page of the sheet music, and that wasn't quite in focus, along with an alert saying that the server was unable to find the requested site. I closed aol, assigned a bunch more memory to it, logged on and tried again--same result.

Now when I post this, AOL will tell me the server was unable to post, I'll go back to the threads list, click Refresh, and when the new list comes up and I open the thread again, my post will be there (this happens with almost every message I post).

--seed

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Bruce O.
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 09:04 PM

That's what is said on an 18th century singles sheet song edition also (BUCEM), but there aren't any songs in the reprint edition of Sheridan's play (1775) that I have.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Dale Rose
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 08:40 PM

The sheet music also has the words to My Lodging Is On The Cold Ground added at the bottom of the last page, with the notation, From 'The Rivals.'

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Bruce O.
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:49 PM

For many copies of its tune see "My lodging is on the cold ground" in the Irish tunes index on my website. The tune is B316 there. The original "My lodging is on the cold ground" song and tune (B315) were of the 17th century, but in 'Vocal Music or the Songster Companion', 1775, the new tune appeared (repeated with the song in Corri's 'Select Collection', c 1779, and in 'The Vocal Enchantress', 1783). The tune appears as that of "I loe no a ladie but ain" in 'The Scots Musical Museum', #267 (1790). Moore's song was of 1807 or 1808, there's some question about the exact date. The copy of the tune in Aird's 'Airs', I, c 1778, can be found via the web-wide ABC index.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: Dale Rose
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:31 PM

. . . and here is the Sheet Music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:20 PM

great minds run in the same channel..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From: KENDALL
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:19 PM

SURE, HERE YOU ARE.

Believe me if all those endearing young charms
which I gaze on so fondly today
Were to change by tomorrow and melt in my arms
like fairy gifts fading away.
Thou wouds't still be adored, as this moment thou art
let thy loveliness fade as it will
And around the dear ruin each wish of my heart,
would entwine itself verdantly still.

It is not while beauty and youth are thine own,
And thy cheeks unprofaned by a tear,
That the fervor and faith of a soul can be known,
to which time will but make thee more dear.
Oh, the heart that has truely loved never forgets
But as truely loves on to the close
As the sun flower turns on her god when he sets,
The same look which she turned when he rose.
^^

Subject: Add: BELIEVE ME IF ALL THOSE ENDEARING YOUNG CHARM
From: sophocleese
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:13 PM

I found it on Barry Taylor's site.

Believe me, if all those endearing young charms
Which I gaze on so fondly today
Were to change by tomorrow and flee from my arms
Like fairy gifts fading away,
Though would'st still be adored as this moment thou art,
Let thy loveliness fade as it will,
And around the dear ruin each wish of my heart
Would entwine itself verdantly still.

It is not while beauty and youth are thine own
And thy cheeks unprofaned by a tear
That the fervor and faith of a soul can be known
To which time will but make thee more dear.
No, the heart that has truly loved never forgets,
But as truly loves on to the close,
As the sunflower turns on her god when he sets
The same look which she'd turned when he rose.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 19-Mar-02.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Believe me if all those endearing yo
From:
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 07:08 PM

Here's what I know from memory....see how it goes

Believe me if all those endearing young charms Which I gaze on so fondly today Were to fade in a moment and flee from my arms Like fairy dreams fading away Thou wouldst still be adored as this moment thou art Let thy loveliness fade as it will

....I think it can't be sung without Drink to me only..so I'll see what I can do there...

Drink to me only with thine eyes and I will pledge thee mine Or leave a kiss within the cup I will not ask for wine The flower that from the dost ask a drink divine oopps...

I sent thee late a roseate wreath not so much honoring thee But giving it a chance... And thou whereon didst only breathe and givest it back to me Since when it lives and smells I swear not of itself but thee..

..well maybe someone can fill in the blanks....I am a great believer in fragments....

Subject: Believe me if all those endearing young
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Nov 99 - 06:59 PM

As many times as I've seen it mentioned in the threads, I find it surprising that I can't find the lyrics for this classic, "Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms," in the data base, either by phrase search or in the alphabetical listings. I remember the first verse from childhood sings around my mom's piano, but that's all.

Please, someone, post them--and please Dick or Susan, add them to the DT.

--seed