BS: Cultural genocide

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Jun 15 - 03:46 PM

Whatever, Keith. Keep deluding yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Jun 15 - 04:07 PM

OK, Keith, then how about you state for us, in detail, what the Ignorance Fallacy is, if you claim it doesn't apply to your nonsensical statement: Their silence...proves that they do not believe a word of it and then explain to us WHY it doesn't apply.


Don't bother with Sagan's book- even if you could read it, you wouldn't understand it.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Jun 15 - 05:56 PM

Dave the Gnome - Date: 07 Jun 15 - 04:29 AM

"I have not given an opinion on Keith's three points for the very reason you say."

Kinda contradicted by:

GUEST,Dave the Gnome - 06 May 15

"I hold a deeply rooted belief that the British leadership in WW1 was bad."

So at what point did you say to Keith that your previously deeply rooted belief was now no longer deeply held if held at all? Could you supply us with the post in which you told him that?

Keep wriggling - by the bye aren't Garden Centres rather dangerous places for Gnomes to be wandering around?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 15 - 06:09 PM

Sorry to interrupt, but I thought you all might enjoy this. Scott Adams has advanced a theory that all the combative, insulting posts on internet forums are made by one guy: http://assets.amuniversal.com/e1996ea0c0af0132d64a005056a9545d

It kind of makes sense when you think about it. Those posts all sound so similar.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jun 15 - 06:58 PM

Hey, it's Musket (1,2,3 and maybe more) lol!

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 01:22 AM

The intrepid Ed T, in a noble attempt to bring this discussion back to the intended topic, posted a link above to the lengthy recommendations of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada. I urge you to read this, folks. It is a very reasonable consideration of the issue, and could be adapted to similar situations throughout the world.

It was noted above that the Pope was asked to issue an apology for the misdeeds of teachers and other staff in church-run institutions where aboriginal people had been mistreated. Within the context of these recommendations, I think this is a very reasonable request. I see above that some Vatican functionary says that an apology isn't going to happen. I think it's safe to say that over the last two years, Pope Francis has continually contradicted the predictions of Vatican functionaries who think they can manage him. It will be interesting to see how he responds, but he will set his own time for a response. To expect him to honor a deadline is unreasonable. For an apology to be sincere and effective, it must be made in proper context, and not simply to satisfy demands.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 04:20 AM

Yep - Got me there Teribus. I did use a poor example of mocking peoples beliefs. I lied when I said it was a deeply held belief to prove a point. Others, like Keith, seems to have picked up on that. Still, it was no more a lie than

Subject: RE: BS: Phantasyfile
From: Teribus - PM
Date: 06 Jun 15 - 09:11 PM

...they only post on this forum to "take the piss" - honestly just cannot see why we bother with them ...

As they say in the song. Who's the fool now?

Garden centres are fine for me. No-one ever picks a belligerent Gnome :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 05:17 AM

Greg, my case was that the decent democracies do not regard Israel as "a terrorist state."

The examples of such democracies I have used are the EU states, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and India.

They may have criticisms of individual policies such as the settlements, but the do not accuse Israel of terrorism.
They do not accuse Israel of massacres, war crimes or rights abuses.
They do accuse Palestinians of those things.

Unless you can produce something, I have nothing more to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 06:54 AM

Dave, we all have deeply held beliefs.
When they are challenged, we must question or defend them.

You people all had the same beliefs about WW1.
I challenged them with current historical knowledge.
You refused to question your beliefs but could not defend them with historical knowledge.
It was against you.
Instead you resorted to ridicule and abuse, and Musket and Raggy actually invented "quotes" from current historians.

Even in recent weeks you Dave have jokingly inserted "consensus" into some of your posts in mockery of my use of it in debate.
It was the substance not the tone of my argument that you mocked and ridiculed with the others.

And you lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 07:01 AM

Yes, Keith. It is well known that my only purpose in life is to mock and ridicule you.

That was mocking and ridiculing in case you had not noticed :-) I can assure you it is not personal though. I also ridicule Teribus, ake and goofus and one or two others.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 07:21 AM

"Jim, I think we should stop now, unless you can actually quote some states accusing Israel of those things."
Don't need the confirmation or (in this case) the silence of States that sell weapons to monsters to recognise State terrorism and mass murder when what we watch and read on the news speak for itself
1940s
1982
1994
2013
2014
2114
2115
As I said - the history speaks for itself – it's tantamount to fascism to say thatweneed politicians to tell us what we can work out for ourselves
Dave, we all have deeply held beliefs
Yours appear to be in yourself - certainly not in Christia values, as I understand them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 07:38 AM

Belligerent Gnomes??? - I was thinking more along the lines of bespectacled, chubby, little bald rotund ones with concertinas Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 07:59 AM

Your links Jim - not one single word about the 830,000 Jews robbed of their property and forcibly deported - no "right of return" for them eh?

In 1948 as the League of nations Mandate for Palestine ended the Jews of Palestine declared the birth of their state - Israel - immediately recognised by the U.S.S.R., the USA and the UN - they were also immediately attacked by the armies of five neighbouring Arab States - why no mention of that.

Your supporting information as usual is highly and carefully selected, incomplete and deliberately misleading.

Last elections in Israel were when? How regularly are they held? Who can stand for election to the Israeli Parliament?

Last elections in the West Bank and in Gaza were when? How often have new elections been cancelled? What lame ass excuses have been offered for not holding fresh elections? Which party has launched their political opponents from the roofs of high rise buildings? In the West Bank and in Gaza have sectors of the population who belong to minority religious groups thrived or have they declined?

Where is the map from the Palestinian Authority/Hamas/Fatah/Hezbollah that shows the agreed borders of the two state solution they claim they are "fighting" for?

All perfectly reasonable questions Jim what's the party line on them?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 08:21 AM

Jim, my case is that no decent government believes all that bollocks about Israel being "a terrorist state."

As I said, unless you can produce something, you have lost that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 08:29 AM

I also ridicule Teribus, ake and goofus and one or two others.

Yes.
You are unable to counter their arguments either.
Mockery you can manage.

I just stick to reasoned debate.
Because I can.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 08:38 AM

"Where is the map from the Palestinian Authority/Hamas/Fatah/Hezbollah that shows the agreed borders of the two state solution they claim they are "fighting" for?"
Ah - the sleeper wakes!!!
Maps were drawn up by politicians - no politician has the right to come to an agreement whereby any signatory can move in and drive out occupants whose families have lived in the area for centuries - even millenia- his is exactly what has happened in Israel.
British troop ships steamed away from Palestine to the sound of 'Freedom fighters'hurling grenades into the homes of Palestinians - often containing Arab families.
It was incidents like these that Einstein and his colleagues wrote about when he warnd against the rise of Zionist Fascism - now it is a continuing fact of like - go and look out last years destruction of Gaza
What the **** have elections to do with anything - The Equality Reports shows what Israeli democracy means to Arabs and Bedouins at the hands of Israeli troops and rapacious settlers?
Israel has made persistent efforts to Apartheidise the area in order to set up a monotheist State over the last few years and has received world-wide condemnation for having done so - some of the most vocal coing from moderate Jews.
Want to show me where that appears on any agreement - no - didn't think so!!!
Even in the case of war, no conquering army has ever been allowed to get away with driving those who lost the wars out of their homes to make room for the victors - Israel has done just that, and no-marks like you pair of comedians have supported such behaviour.
How about coming out from behind pieces of paper signed three quarters of a century ago and addressing the reality of Israeli behaviour in human terms - I'm sure you can get someone to explain it to you, it obviously isn't part of yur own makeup.
Israel is an expansionist terrorist state hiding behind the name of the Jewish people to legitimise their behavior
You have just been given seven examples of that terrorits activities - lies? of no consequence? Antisemitism?..... what?
Come back when you've scraped together some humanity

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 08:40 AM

Israel is an expansionist terrorist state hiding behind the name of the Jewish people to legitimise their behavior

Says who Jim?
Not one single decent democratic government!
Just you gullible dupes who believe everything put out by Israel's enemies.
Informed governments know better.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 08:50 AM

I have nothing more to say.

So, Keith, you admit you have no idea what I'm talking about, nor what The Ignorance Fallacy is, nor do you care, nor will you learn.

So we're back to your initial idiotic & ignorant claim.

No surprises there.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 09:50 AM

Err.. Every government who didn't abstain or vote otherwise in the many UN resolutions Keith. The words Jim used aren't ones I'd choose, but if you read the resolutions of The United Nations, you'll see exactly that. And the delegates representing The UK government voting accordingly.

You ask why people on here condemn Israel but not Hamas. Well for starters, nobody on here is defending Hamas, so no reason to discuss them. You and others are defending Israel though, hence talking about Israel.

It isn't difficult.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 10:19 AM

I was thinking more along the lines of bespectacled, chubby, little bald rotund ones with concertinas Dave.

Pretty spot on apart from the bespectacled - Although I do wear them for driving and watching TV. Well done!

Keith

You are unable to counter their arguments either.

What arguments?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 10:41 AM

"Says who Jim?"
The facts say Keith
Piss off with your democratic governments -every one of them has criticised Israel's expansionism and most have condemned the massacres and destruction that took place last year.
You have been given fact after fact on Israel and have offered none of your own, just appeasement to those who commit atrocities.
If you have nothing to contribute other than denials and fascist rhetoric on believing politicians, please keep
your promise and say nothing- which just about sums up your contribution to this discussion (apart from entertainment value, that is)
You want to know "who says - try this for size, and feel free to tell them they are Anti-Semites, or liars, or wrong or "Leave it to the politicians".
Jim Carroll

Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza
As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.



We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.



Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel's abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel's wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.



We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. "Never again" must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!



Signed,



Survivors:



Hajo Meyer, survivor of Auschwitz, The Netherlands.
Henri Wajnblum, survivor and son of a victim of Auschwitz from Lodz, Poland. Lives in Belgium.
Renate Bridenthal, child refugee from Hitler, granddaughter of Auschwitz victim, United States.
Marianka Ehrlich Ross, survivor of Nazi ethnic cleansing in Vienna, Austria. Now lives in United States.
Irena Klepfisz, child survivor from the Warsaw Ghetto, Poland. Now lives in United States.
Hedy Epstein, her parents & other family members were deported to Camp de Gurs & subsequently all perished in Auschwitz. Now lives in United States.
Lillian Rosengarten, survivor of the Nazi Holocaust, United States.
Suzanne Weiss, survived in hiding in France, and daughter of a mother who was murdered in Auschwitz. Now lives in Canada.
H. Richard Leuchtag, survivor, United States.
Ervin Somogyi, survivor and son of survivors, United States.
Ilse Hadda, survivor on Kindertransport to England. Now lives in United States.
Jacques Glaser, survivor, France.
Eva Naylor, surivor, New Zealand.
Suzanne Ross, child refugee from Nazi occupation in Belgium, two thirds of family perished in the Lodz Ghetto, in Auschwitz, and other Camps, United States.
Bernard Swierszcz, Polish survivor, lost relatives in Majdanek concentration camp. Now lives in the United States.
Joseph Klinkov, hidden child in Poland. Lives in the United States.
Nicole Milner, survivor from Belgium. Now lives in United States.
Hedi Saraf, child survivor and daughter of survivor of Dachau, United States.
Michael Rice, child survivor, son and grandson of survivor, aunt and cousin murderd, ALL 14 remaining Jewish children in my Dutch boarding school were murdered in concentration camps, United States.
Barbara Roose, survivor from Germany, half-sister killed in Auschwitz, United States.
Sonia Herzbrun, survivor of Nazi genocide, France.
Ivan Huber, survivor with my parents, but 3 of 4 grandparents murdered, United States.
Altman Janina, survivor of Janowski concentration camp, Lvov. Lives in Israel.
Leibu Strul Zalman, survivor from Vaslui Romania. Lives in Jerusalem, Palestine.
Miriam Almeleh, survivor, United States.
George Bartenieff, child survivor from Germany and son of survivors, United States.
Margarete Liebstaedter, survivor, hidden by Christian people in Holland. Lives in Belgium.
Edith Bell, survivor of Westerbork, Theresienstadt, Auschwitz and Kurzbach. Lives in United States.
Janine Euvrard, survivor, France.
Harry Halbreich, survivor, Germany.
Ruth Kupferschmidt, survivor, spent five years hiding, The Netherlands.
Annette Herskovits, hidden child and daughter of victims deported to Auschwitz from France. Lives in the United States.
Felicia Langer, survivor from Germany. Lives in Germany.
Moshe Langer, survivor from Germany, Moshe survived 5 concentration camps, family members were exterminated. Lives in Germany.
Adam Policzer, hidden child from Hungary. Now lives in Canada.
Juliane Biro, survivor via the Kindertransport to England, daughter of survivors, niece of victims, United States.
Edith Rubinstein, child refugee, granddaughter of 3 victims, many other family members were victims, Belgium.
Jacques Bude, survivor, mother and father murdered in Auschwitz, Belgium.
Nicole Kahn, survivor, France.
Shimon Schwarzschild, survivor from Germany, United States.
George Winston, survivor, Australia.
Marietta Elliott-Kleerkoper, child survivor, hidden from 1942 till 1945 in the Dutch countryside with Christians, Australia.
Susan Varga, survivor, Australia.
Gilles Cocos, survivor and brother and child of survivors, lost several relatives in the camps, United States.


Children of survivors:



Liliana Kaczerginski, daughter of Vilna ghetto resistance fighter and granddaughter of murdered in Ponary woods, Lithuania. Now lives in France.
Jean-Claude Meyer, son of Marcel, shot as a hostage by the Nazis, whose sister and parents died in Auschwitz. Now lives in France.
Chava Finkler, daughter of survivor of Starachovice labour camp, Poland. Now lives in Canada.
Micah Bazant, child of a survivor of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Sylvia Schwarz, daughter and granddaughter of survivors and granddaughter of victims of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Margot Goldstein, daughter and granddaughter of survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Ellen Schwarz Wasfi, daughter of survivors from Vienna, Austria. Now lives in United States.
Lisa Kosowski, daughter of survivor and granddaughter of Auschwitz victims, United States.
Daniel Strum, son of a refugee from Vienna, who, with his parents were forced to flee in 1939, his maternal grand-parents were lost, United States.
Bruce Ballin, son of survivors, some relatives of parents died in camps, one relative beheaded for being in the Baum Resistance Group, United States.
Rachel Duell, daughter of survivors from Germany and Poland, United States.
Tom Mayer, son of survivor and grandson of victims, United States.
Alex Nissen, daughter of survivors who escaped but lost family in the Holocaust, Australia.
Mark Aleshnick, son of survivor who lost most of her family in Nazi genocide, United States.
Prof. Haim Bresheeth, son of two survivors of Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen, London.
Todd Michael Edelman, son and grandson of survivors and great-grandson of victims of the Nazi genocide in Hungary, Romania and Slovakia, United States.
Tim Naylor, son of survivor, New Zealand.
Victor Nepomnyashchy, son and grandson of survivors and grandson and relative of many victims, United States.
Tanya Ury, daughter of parents who fled Nazi Germany, granddaughter, great granddaugher and niece of survivors and those who died in concentration camps, Germany.
Rachel Giora, daughter of Polish Jews who fled Poland, Israel.
Jane Hirschmann, daughter of survivors, United States.
Jenny Heinz, daughter of survivor, United States.
Miranda Pinch, daughter of Beate Sommer who was a Czeck refugee along with her father Ernst Sommer, UK.
Elsa Auerbach, daughter of Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, United States.
Julian Clegg, son and grandson of Austrian refugees, relative of Austrian and Hungarian concentration camp victims, Taiwan.
David Mizner, son of a survivor, relative of people who died in the Holocaust, United States.
Jeffrey J. Westcott, son and grandson of Holocaust survivors from Germany, United States.
Susan K. Jacoby, daughter of parents who were refugees from Nazi Germany, granddaughter of survivor of Buchenwald, United States.
Audrey Bomse, daughter of a survivor of Nazi ethnic cleansing in Vienna, lives in United States.
Daniel Gottschalk, son and grandson of refugees from the Holocaust, relative to various family members who died in the Holocaust, United States.
Barbara Grossman, daughter of survivors, granddaughter of Holocaust victims, United States.
Abraham Weizfeld PhD, son of survivorswho escaped Warsaw (Jewish Bundist) and Lublin ghettos, Canada.
David Rohrlich, son of refugees from Vienna, grandson of victim, United States.
Walter Ballin, son of holocaust survivors, United States.
Fritzi Ross, daughter of survivor, granddaughter of Dachau survivor Hugo Rosenbaum, great-granddaughter and great-niece of victims, United States.
Reuben Roth, son of survivors who fled from Poland in 1939, Canada.
Tony Iltis, father fled from Czechoslovakia and grandmother murdered in Auschwitz, Australia.
Anne Hudes, daughter and granddaughter of survivors from Vienna, Austria, great-granddaughter of victims who perished in Auschwitz, United States.
Mateo Nube, son of survivor from Berlin, Germany. Lives in United States.
John Mifsud, son of survivors from Malta, United States.
Mike Okrent, son of two holocaust / concentration camp survivors, United States.
Susan Bailey, daughter of survivor and niece of victims, UK.
Brenda Lewis, child of Kindertransport survivor, parent's family died in Auschwitz and Terezin. Lives in Canada.
Patricia Rincon-Mautner, daughter of survivor and granddaughter of survivor, Colombia.
Barak Michèle, daughter and grand-daughter of a survivor, many members of family were killed in Auschwitz or Bessarabia. Lives in Germany.
Jessica Blatt, daughter of child refugee survivor, both grandparents' entire families killed in Poland. Lives in United States
Maia Ettinger, daughter & granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Ammiel Alcalay, child of survivors from then Yugoslavia. Lives in United States.
Julie Deborah Kosowski, daughter of hidden child survivor, grandparents did not return from Auschwitz, United States.
Julia Shpirt, daughter of survivor, United States.
Ruben Rosenberg Colorni, grandson and son of survivors, The Netherlands.
Victor Ginsburgh, son of survivors, Belgium.
Arianne Sved, daughter of a survivor and granddaughter of victim, Spain.
Rolf Verleger, son of survivors, father survived Auschwitz, mother survived deportation from Berlin to Estonia, other family did not survive. Lives in Germany.
Euvrard Janine, daughter of survivors, France.
H. Fleishon, daughter of survivors, United States.
Barbara Meyer, daughter of survivor in Polish concentration camps. Lives in Italy.
Susan Heuman, child of survivors and granddaughter of two grandparents murdered in a forest in Minsk. Lives in United States.
Rami Heled, son of survivors, all grandparents and family killed by the Germans in Treblinka, Oswiecim and Russia. Lives in Israel.
Eitan Altman, son of survivor, France.
Jorge Sved, son of survivor and grandson of victim, United Kingdom
Maria Kruczkowska, daughter of Lea Horowicz who survived the holocaust in Poland. Lives in Poland.
Sarah Lanzman, daughter of survivor of Auschwitz, United States.
Cheryl W, daughter, granddaughter and nieces of survivors, grandfather was a member of the Dutch Underground (Eindhoven). Lives in Australia.
Chris Holmquist, son of survivor, UK.
Beverly Stuart, daughter and granddaughter of survivors from Romania and Poland. Lives in United States.
Peter Truskier, son and grandson of survivors, United States.
Karen Bermann, daughter of a child refugee from Vienna. Lives in United States.
Rebecca Weston, daughter and granddaughter of survivor, Spain.
Prof. Yosefa Loshitzky, daughter of Holocaust survivors, London, UK.
Marion Geller, daughter and granddaughter of those who escaped, great-granddaughter and relative of many who died in the camps, UK.
Susan Slyomovics, daughter and granddaughter of survivors of Auschwitz, Plaszow, Markleeberg and Ghetto Mateszalka, United States.
Helga Fischer Mankovitz, daughter, niece and cousin of refugees who fled from Austria, niece of victim who perished, Canada.
Michael Wischnia, son of survivors and relative of many who perished, United States.
Arthur Graaff, son of decorated Dutch resistance member and nazi victim, The Netherlands.
Yael Kahn, daughter of survivors who escaped Nazi Germany, many relatives that perished, UK.
Pierre Stambul, son of French resistance fighters, father deported to Buchenwalk, grandparents disapeared in Bessarabia, France.
Georges Gumpel, son of a deportee who died at Melk, Austria (subcamp of Mauthausen), France.
Emma Kronberg, daughter of survivor Buchenwald, United States.
Hannah Schwarzschild, daughter of a refugee who escaped Nazi Germany after experiencing Kristallnacht, United States.
Rubin Kantorovich, son of a survivor, Canada.
Daniele Armaleo, son of German refugee, grandparents perished in Theresienstadt, United States.
Aminda Stern Baird, daughter of survivor, United States.
Ana Policzer, daughter of hidden child, granddaughter of victim, niece/grandniece of four victims and two survivors, Canada.
Sara Castaldo, daughter of survivors, United States.
Pablo Policzer, son of a survivor, Canada.
Gail Nestel, daughter of survivors who lost brothers, sisters, parents and cousins, Canada.
Elizabeth Heineman, daughter and niece of unaccompanied child refugees, granddaughter of survivors, great-granddaughter and grand-niece of victims, United States.
Lainie Magidsohn, daughter of child survivor and numerous other relatives from Czestochowa, Poland. Lives in Canada.
Doris Gelbman, daughter and granddaughter of survivors, granddaughter and niece of many who perished, United States.
Erna Lund, daughter of survivor, Norway.
Rayah Feldman, daughter of refugees, granddaughter and niece of victims and survivors, UK.
Hadas Rivera-Weiss, daughter of survivors from Hungary, mother Ruchel Weiss née Abramovich and father Shaya Weiss, United States.
Pedro Tabensky, son of survivor of the Budapest Ghetto, South Africa.
Allan Kolski Horwitz, son of a survivor; descendant of many, many victims, South Africa.
Monique Mojica, child of survivor, relative to many victims murdered in Auschwitz. Canada.
Mike Brecher, son of a Kindertransport survivor and grandson of two who did not survive. UK.
Nomi Yah Gardiner, daughter and granddaughter of survivors, relative of victims, United States.
Marianne van Leeuw Koplewicz, daughter of deported parents, grand-daughter and niece of victims, Belgium.
Alfred Gluecksmann, son of survivors of Germany, United States.
Smadar Carmon, daughter of survivor, Canada.
Lara Braitstein, daughter of a survivor, father was a hidden child in Belgium, most of his cousins, aunts, uncles, and one set of grandparents were all murdered, Canada.
Susan J Braverman, daughter of a survivor and granddaughter of victims, United States.
Peter Slezak, son and grandson, Australia.
Liz Brummer, daugher of survivors, Australia.
Anneke Deustch, daughter of a Viennese survivor, my aunts, uncles and grandfather perished in Treblinka and Auschwitz, Australia.
George Hudes, son and grandson of survivors from Vienna, great-grandson of victims who perished in Auschwitz, United States.
Sabena Winston, daughter of a Polish survivor, Australia.
Max Orden, son of survivor of Buchenwald, Australia.
Gail Soltan Payne, daugher and niece of survivors from Croatia, United States.
Gail Soltan Payne, daugher and niece of survivors from Croatia, United States.
Joeri Puissant, child and grandchild of survivors, grandmother's family was murdered, Belgium.


Grandchildren of survivors



Raphael Cohen, grandson of Jewish survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Emma Rubin, granddaughter of a survivor of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Alex Safron, grandson of a survivor of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Danielle Feris, grandchild of a Polish grandmother whose whole family died in the Nazi Holocaust, United States.
Jesse Strauss, grandson of Polish survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Anna Baltzer, granddaughter of survivors whose family members perished in Auschwitz (others were members of the Belgian Resistance), United States.
Abigail Harms, granddaughter of Holocaust survivor from Austria, Now lives in United States.
Tessa Strauss, granddaughter of Polish Jewish survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Caroline Picker, granddaughter of survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Amalle Dublon, grandchild and great-grandchild of survivors of the Nazi holocaust, United States.
Antonie Kaufmann Churg, 3rd cousin of Ann Frank and grand-daughter of NON-survivors, United States.
Aliza Shvarts, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Linda Mamoun, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Abby Okrent, granddaughter of survivors of the Auschwitz, Dachau, Stuttgart, and the Lodz Ghetto, United States.
Beth Bruch, grandchild of German Jews who fled to US and great-grandchild of Nazi holocaust survivor, United States.
Bob Wilson, grandson of a survivor, United States.
Katharine Wallerstein, granddaughter of survivors and relative of many who perished, United States.
Sylvia Finzi, granddaughter and niece of Holocaust victims murdered in Auschwitz, London.
Esteban Schmelz, grandson of KZ-Theresienstadt victim, Mexico City.
Françoise Basch, grand daughter of Victor and Ilona Basch murdered by the Gestapo and the French Milice, France.
Gabriel Alkon, grandson of Holocaust survivors, Untied States.
Nirit Ben-Ari, grandchild of Polish grandparents from both sides whose entire family was killed in the Nazi Holocaust, United States.
Heike Schotten, granddaughter of refugees from Nazi Germany who escaped the genocide, United States.
Ike af Carlstèn, grandson of survivor, Norway.
Elias Lazarus, grandson of Holocaust refugees from Dresden, United States and Australia.
Laura Mandelberg, granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, United States.
Josh Ruebner, grandson of Nazi Holocaust survivors, United States.
Shirley Feldman, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Nuno Cesar Ferreira, grandson of survivor, Brazil.
Andrea Land, granddaugher of survivors who fled programs in Poland, all European relatives died in German and Polish concentration camps, United States.
Sarah Goldman, granddaughter of survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Baruch Wolski, grandson of survivors, Austria.
Frank Amahran, grandson of survivor, United States.
Eve Spangler, granddaughter of Holocaust NON-survivor, United States.
Gil Medovoy, grandchild of Fela Hornstein who lost her enitre family in Poland during the Nazi genocide, United States.
Michael Hoffman, grandson of survivors, rest of family killed in Poland during Holocaust, live in El Salvador.
Sarah Hogarth, granddaughter of a survivor whose entire family was killed at Auschwitz, United States.
Tibby Brooks, granddaughter, niece, and cousin of victims of Nazis in Ukraine. Lives in United States.
Dan Berger, grandson of survivor, United States.
Dani Baurer, granddaughter of Baruch Pollack, survivor of Auschwitz. Lives in United States.
Talia Baurer, granddaughter of a survivor, United States.
Evan Cofsky, grandson of survivor, UK.
Annie Sicherman, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Anna Heyman, granddaughter of survivors, UK.
Maya Ober, granddaughter of survivor and relative of deceased in Teresienstadt and Auschwitz, Tel Aviv.
Anne Haan, granddaughter of Joseph Slagter, survivor of Auschwitz. Lives in The Netherlands.
Oliver Ginsberg, grandson of victim, Germany.
Mitchel Bollag, grandson of Stanislaus Eisner, who was living in Czechoslovakia before being sent to a concentration camp. United States.
Vivienne Porzsolt, granddaughter of victims of Nazi genocide, Australia.
Lisa Nessan, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Kally Alexandrou, granddaughter of survivors, Australia.
Laura Ostrow, granddaughter of survivors, United States
Anette Jacobson, granddaughter of relatives killed, town of Kamen Kashirsk, Poland. Lives in United States.
Tamar Yaron (Teresa Werner), granddaughter and niece of victims of the Nazi genocide in Poland, Israel.
Antonio Roman-Alcalá, grandson of survivor, United States.
Jeremy Luban, grandson of survivor, United States.
Heather West, granddaughter of survivors and relative of other victims, United States.
Jeff Ethan Au Green, grandson of survivor who escaped from a Nazi work camp and hid in the Polish-Ukranian forest, United States.
Johanna Haan, daughter and granddaughter of victims in the Netherlands. Lives in the Netherlands.
Aron Ben Miriam, son of and nephew of survivors from Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Salzwedel, Lodz ghetto. Lives in United States.
Noa Shaindlinger, granddaughter of four holocaust survivors, Canada.
Merilyn Moos, granddaughter, cousin and niece murdered victims, UK.
Ruth Tenne, granddaughter and relative of those who perished in Warsaw Ghetto, London.
Craig Berman, grandson of Holocaust survivors, UK.
Nell Hirschmann-Levy, granddaughter of survivors from Germany. Lives in United States.
Osha Neumann, grandson of Gertrud Neumann who died in Theresienstadt. Lives in United States.
Georg Frankl, Grandson of survivor Ernst-Immo Frankl who survived German work camp. Lives in Germany.
Julian Drix, grandson of two survivors from Poland, including survivor and escapee from liquidated Janowska concentration camp in Lwow, Poland. Lives in United States.
Katrina Mayer, grandson and relative of victims, UK.
Avigail Abarbanel, granddaughter of survivors, Scotland.
Denni Turp, granddaughter of Michael Prooth, survivor, UK.
Fenya Fischler, granddaughter of survivors, UK.
Yakira Teitel, granddaughter of German Jewish refugees, great-granddaughter of survivor, United States.
Susan Koppelman, granddaughter of survivor, United States
Hana Umeda, granddaughter of survivor, Warsaw.
Jordan Silverstein, grandson of two survivors, Canada.
Daniela Petuchowski, granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Aaron Lerner, grandson of survivors, United States.
Judith Bernstein, granddaughter of Holocaust victims in Auschwitz, Germany.
Samantha Wischnia, granddaughter and great niece of survivors from Poland, United States.
Elizabeth Wischnia, granddaughter and grand niece of three holocaust survivors, great aunt worked for Schindler, United States.
Daniel Waterman, grandson of survivor, The Netherlands.
Elana Baurer, granddaughter of survivor, United States.
Pablo Roman-Alcala, grandson of participant in the kindertransport and survivor, Germany.
Karine Abdel Malek, grandchild of survivor, Henri Waisman, Morocco.
Elana Baurer, granddaughter of survivor, United States.
Lillian Brown, granddaughter of survivor, United States.
Devin Cahn, grandson of survivors, United States.
Daniel Lévyne, grandson of a deportee, France.
Emilie Ferreira, granddaughter of survivors, Switzerland.
Chaim Neslen, grandchild of many victims and friend of many survivors, UK.
Ann Jungmann, granddaughter to three victims, UK.
Ellie Schling, granddaughter of a survivor, UK.
Danny Katch, grandson of a survivor, United States.
Karen Pomer, granddaughter of Henri B. van Leeuwen, member of Dutch resistance and survivor of Bergen Belsen, United States.
Gilda Mitchell Katz, granddaughter of survivors, uncle and aunt killed In Dombrova, Canada.
Dana Newfield, granddaughter of survivor and relative of many murdered, United States.
Ilana Guslits, granddaughter of two Polish survivors, Canada.
Gerald Coles-Kolsky, grandson of victims in Poland and France, United States.
Lesley Swain, granddaughter and cousin of survivors, UK.
Myera Waese, granddaughter of survivors of Bergen Belsen, Canada.
Ronni Seidman, grandchild of survivors. United States.
Mike Shatzkin, grandchild of survivors, some family members murdered and some who died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. United States.
Nance Shatzkin, grandchild of survivors, some family members murdered and some who died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. United States.
Karen Shatzkin, grandchild of survivors, some family members murdered and some who died in the Warsaw Ghetto uprising. United States.
Myriam Burger, granddaughter of survivor. United States.
Andre Burger, grandson of survivor Myriam Cohn, great-grandson of Sylvia Cohn and great-nephew of Esther Lore Cohn, both murdered in Auschwitz, United States.
Sara Ayech, granddaughter of Gisela and Max Roth, survivors who lost many family members, UK.
Monika Vykoukal, granddaughter of survivor, France.
Patricia Reinheimer, grandaugther of survivors, Brazil.
Nancy Patchell, granddaughter of resistance fighters, grandfather was caught and died in a concentration camp, Canada.
Jaclyn Pryor, granddaughter of survivors from Czestochowa Ghetto, Poland; great-grandchild, niece, and cousin to many who perished, United States.
Steven Rosenthal, grandson of survivor, Chile.
Arturo Desimone, grandson of a survivor of the ghetto of Çzestochowa, The Netherlands.
Lazer Lederhendler, grandson of victims whose seven siblings also perished in the Warsaw Ghetto and Treblinka. Lives in Canada.
Poppy Kohner, granddaughter of survivor, Scotland.
Ben Young, grandson of survivor, UK.
Martin Weise, grandson of Mrs Frieda Schmidtke, survivor of Theresienstadt, UK.
Paul Blay, grandson of survivors saved by Schindler in Krakow, Poland. Lives in Australia.
Dinah Kohner, granddaughter of survivor, Sudentenland, New Zealand.
Amanda Reitzin, granddaughter of Polish survivor of Auschwitz, Australia.
Niclas Witton, grandparents and member of wider family perished, Australia.
Ron Witton, grandson of survivor, Australia.
Leah Grabelsky, granddaughter of Kindertransport survivor from Vienna, United States.
Ronnie Barkan, grandson of survivors from Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen, Dachau and Majdanek camps. Now lives in Yafa, Palestine48/Israel.
Joseph Halevi, grandson of three victims, Australia.
Pembe Mutaf, granddaughter of an Auschwitz survivor, Canada.
Dr. Robert Stone, grandson of one who fled Nazi persecution, United States.
Lozh Pizdesh, granddaughter of survivor, France.


Great-grandchildren of survivors



Natalie Rothman, great granddaughter of Holocaust victims in Warsaw. Now lives in Canada.
Yotam Amit, great-grandson of Polish Jew who fled Poland, United States.
Daniel Boyarin, great grandson of victims of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Maria Luban, great-granddaughter of survivors of the Holocaust, United States.
Mimi Erlich, great-granddaughter of Holocaust victim, United States.
Olivia Kraus, great-grandaughter of victims, granddaughter and daughter of family that fled Austria and Czechoslovakia. Lives in United States.
Emily (Chisefsky) Alma, great granddaughter and great grandniece of victims in Bialystok, Poland, United States.
Inbal Amin, great-granddaughter of a mother and son that escaped and related to plenty that didn't, United States.
Matteo Luban, great-granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Saira Weiner, greatgranddaughter and niece of those murdered in the Holocaust, granddaughter of survivors, UK.
Andrea Isaak, great-granddaughter of survivor, Canada.
Alan Lott, great-grandson of a number of relatives lost, United States.
Sara Wines, great-granddaughter of a survivor and great-great granddaughter of victims, United States.
Kristen Baum Wolfe, great-granddaughter of survivors, United States.
Shelly Steinberg, great-granddaughter of German victims, murdered in Auschwitz, Tel Aviv.


Other relatives of survivors



Terri Ginsberg, niece of a survivor of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Nathan Pollack, relative of Holocaust survivors and victims, United States.
Marcy Winograd, relatives of victims, United States.
Rabbi Borukh Goldberg, relative of many victims, United States.
Martin Davidson, great-nephew of victims who lived in the Netherlands, Spain.
Miriam Pickens, relative of survivors, United States.
Hyman and Hazel Rochman, relatives of Holocaust victims, United States.
Rich Siegel, cousin of victims who were rounded up and shot in town square of Czestochowa, Poland. Lives in United States.
Ignacio Israel Cruz-Lara, relative of survivor, Mexico.
Debra Stuckgold, relative of survivors, United States.
Joel Kovel, relatives killed at Babi Yar, United States.
Carol Krauthamer Smith, niece of survivors of the Nazi genocide, United States.
Chandra Ahuva Hauptman, relatives from grandfather's family died in Lodz ghetto, one survivor cousin and many deceased from Auschwitz, United States.
Shelly Weiss, relative of Holocaust victims, United States.
Carol Sanders, niece and cousin of victims of Holocaust in Poland, United States.
Sandra Rosen, great-niece and cousin of survivors, United States.
Raquel Hiller, relative of victims in Poland. Now lives in Mexico.
Alex Kantrowitz, most of father's family murdered Nesvizh, Belarus 1941. Lives in United States.
Michael Steven Smith, many relatives were killed in Hungary. Lives in United States.
Linda Moore, relative of survivors and victims, United States.
Juliet VanEenwyk, niece and cousin of Hungarian survivors, United States.
Anya Achtenberg, grand niece, niece, cousin of victims tortured and murdered in Ukraine. Lives in United States.
Betsy Wolf-Graves, great niece of uncle who shot himself as he was about to be arrested by Nazis, United States.
Abecassis Pierre, grand-uncle died in concentration camp, France.
Robert Rosenthal, great-nephew and cousin of survivors from Poland. Lives in United States.
Régine Bohar, relative of victims sent to Auschwitz, Canada.
Denise Rickles, relative of survivors and victims in Poland. Lives in United States.
Louis Hirsch, relative of victims, United States.
Concepción Marcos, relative of victim, Spain.
George Sved, relative of victim, Spain.
Judith Berlowitz, relative of victims and survivors, United States.
Rebecca Sturgeon, descendant of Holocaust survivor from Amsterdam. Lives in UK.
Justin Levy, relative of victims and survivors, Ireland.
Sam Semoff, relative of survivors and victims, UK.
Leah Brown Klein, daughter-in-law of survivors Miki and Etu Fixler Klein, United States
Karen Malpede, spouse of hidden child who then fled Germany. Lives in United States
Michel Euvrard, husband of survivor, France.
Walter Ebmeyer, grandnephew of three Auschwitz victims and one survivor now living in Jerusalem, United States.
Garrett Wright, relative of victims and survivors, United States.
Lynne Lopez-Salzedo, descendant of three Auschwitz victims, United States.
Renee Leavy, 86 victims in my mother's family, United States.
Steven Kohn, 182 victims in my grandparents' families, United States.
Dorah Rosen Shuey, relative of many victims and 4 survivors, United States.
Carol Lipton, cousin of survivors, United States.
Catherine Bruckner, descendent of Czech Jewish victims of the holocaust, UK.
Susan Rae Goldstein, carrying the name of my great-aunt Rose Frankel, from Poland and murdered along with many other family members, Canada.
Jordan Elgrably, nephew of Marcelle Elgrably, killed in Auschwitz, United States.
Olivia M Hudis, relative of Auschwitz victims, United States.
Peter Finkelstein, relative of victims and survivors, Germany.
Colin Merrin, descendant of Polish and Belarusian Jewish victims, UK.
Howard Swerdloff, most of my family died in the Shoah, United States.
Margarita E Freund, descendant of Breslau and Ukrainian Jewish victims, United States.
Marsha Goldberg, relative of victims in Poland, United States.
Michael Rosen, father's two uncles died in Auschwitz, UK.
Susan L. Lourenco, relative of victims,killed in Theresienstadt, Auschwitz. Now lives in Germany.
Shirley Luban, niece of uncle, who perished, United States.
Jennifer Simon, great-great niece of victims of Buchenwald and Theresienstadt, United States.
Piero Valabrega, relative of Italian Jews murdered in Auschwitz, Italy.
Ted Auerbach, relative of victims who died in the Holocaust, United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 10:49 AM

Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza

The only massacre of civilians in Gaza was perpetrated by Hamas. All civilized people should condemn that.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 11:04 AM

The only massacre of civilians in Gaza was perpetrated by Hamas.

Tell it to the Marines.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 11:04 AM

"The only massacre of civilians in Gaza was perpetrated by Hamas"
Yeah - sure it was Brucie - the reports were faked and te survivors are all liars
That's cleared theaira bit anyway and shown us who's what
Any more for the Skylark?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 11:36 AM

Jim Carroll - 08 Jun 15 - 10:41 AM

Now that Christmas can only be described as "takin' the piss" - whatever you do old son do not ever, repeat, ever complain about anyone's "cut-n-pastes" in the future.

Now which ones speak for and represent the Governments of democratic countries - that was the original contention wasn't it? That EU countries denounced Israel as a terrorist state guilty of war crimes? So far none have you have provided any evidence that substantiates that claim.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 11:51 AM

Yes -- Out of interest, Jim, what is the source of that statement with all those signatures? Who published it and where? You failed to provide any provenance. (This is not a hostile post, please note: simply a request for information).

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 11:59 AM

So Teribus,the condemnation of concentration camp survivors is not important as long as governments don't speak out.
What a fine fellow you are.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 12:22 PM

" Who published it and where?"
Haaretz published the statement and gave a link to the list of signatories.
Full text of article and link here - just so those who will, can ignore it publicly and obviously
Jim Carroll

HAARETZ
Holocaust survivors condemn Israel for 'Gaza massacre,' call for boycott
In response to Elie Wiesel advertisement comparing Hamas to Nazis, 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants publish New York Times ad accusing Israel of 'ongoing massacre of the Palestinian people.'
By Haaretz | Aug. 23, 2014 | 5:24 PM |   83

Hundreds of Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors have signed a letter, published as an advertisement in Saturday's New York Times, condemning "the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza" and calling for a complete boycott of Israel.
According to the letter, the condemnation was prompted by an advertisement written by Elie Wiesel and published in major news outlets worldwide, accusing Hamas of "child sacrifice" and comparing the group to the Nazis.
The letter, signed by 327 Jewish Holocaust survivors and descendants of survivors and sponsored by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network, accuses Wiesel of "abuse of history" in order to justify Israel's actions in the Gaza Strip:
"…we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel's abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel's wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water."
The letter also blames the United States of aiding Israel in its Gaza operation, and the West in general of protecting Israel from condemnation.
"Genocide begins with the silence of the world," the letter reads.
The letter ends with a call to bring the blockade of Gaza to an immediate end, and for a full boycott of Israel. "Never again" must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!," the letter concludes.
Full text of letter:
"Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of Nazi genocide unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza
"As Jewish survivors and descendants of survivors and victims of the Nazi genocide we unequivocally condemn the massacre of Palestinians in Gaza and the ongoing occupation and colonization of historic Palestine. We further condemn the United States for providing Israel with the funding to carry out the attack, and Western states more generally for using their diplomatic muscle to protect Israel from condemnation. Genocide begins with the silence of the world.
"We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society, which has reached a fever-pitch. In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.
"Furthermore, we are disgusted and outraged by Elie Wiesel's abuse of our history in these pages to justify the unjustifiable: Israel's wholesale effort to destroy Gaza and the murder of more than 2,000 Palestinians, including many hundreds of children. Nothing can justify bombing UN shelters, homes, hospitals and universities. Nothing can justify depriving people of electricity and water.
"We must raise our collective voices and use our collective power to bring about an end to all forms of racism, including the ongoing genocide of Palestinian people. We call for an immediate end to the siege against and blockade of Gaza. We call for the full economic, cultural and academic boycott of Israel. "Never again" must mean NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE!"
For full list of the letter's signatories, click here

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 12:24 PM

Missed Terribus's bit
Wonderful - keep 'em comin'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 12:38 PM

Haaretz....well known for it's extremism.....the mark of a truly open and democratic society is one which allows all voices to be heard. Israel is one of those countries and should be celebrated for it, especially so because it is one of the only countries allowing such freedoms in the Middle East....bravo Israel!

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 12:52 PM

GUEST,Derrick - 08 Jun 15 - 11:59 AM - You are being a pillock and you know it - go back and re-read my post - No hang on I will save you the bother - I will even highlight the important bit:

"Now which ones speak for and represent the Governments of democratic countries - that was the original contention wasn't it? That EU countries denounced Israel as a terrorist state guilty of war crimes? So far none have you have provided any evidence that substantiates that claim."

Now as they could not come up with any official statement from any Government of any EU Country that backs their original statement, they drag out this list of names that could have been made up by anyone - hence my F**kin' Question - which is perfectly reasonable.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 01:06 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,Derrick
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 01:16 PM

The source has now been given for the quote.
So now you can tell me whether or not the views of the concentration camp victims are of any consequence or not.
Or does your argument about governments trump their condemnation

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 01:38 PM

"Now as they could not come up with any official statement from any Government of any EU Country that backs their original statement,"
Here we go - "extremism" (this from an Antisemitic who blames the crimes of Israel on "the Jews")
Haaretz is not well-known for it's extremism (I think you once accused Chomski, Eisenstein and other Jews of Antisemitism for criticising Israel - your favourite word, apparently)
And our own strutting little chocolate soldier, 'Terry the Trooper' would dismiss the opinions of survivors of the death camps and their relatives for the say so of states who sell arms to monsters and have conducted near-genocidal wars of their own against Third World impoverished nations to keep their S.U.V's on the road.
As far as supporting Israel - I am happy to say this as many times as this pair of clowns are prepared to use supposed support of Isreal as an excuse for ethnic cleansing:
ALL THE SUPPOSED SUPPORTERS ON KEITH'S LIST HAVE CONDEMNED ISRAEL OVER LAST YEAR'S ATROCITIES IN GAZA AND OVER ITS ONGOING USURPATION OF PALESTINIAN AND BEDOUIN TERRITORY -NO-ONE HAS DARED SUPPORT ISREAL OVER THIS - CAMERON HAS CONDEMNED IT AND OBAMA HAS SAID THAT IF ISRAEL DOES NOT CHANGE POLICY RADICALLY THEY CAN NO LONGER RELY ON AMERICA'S VETO TO KEEP IT OUT OF THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT
It's bad enough to use actual support of so-called democratic nations to appease war crimes, mass murder and State terrorism, but to invent that support really is stomach-heaving.
Give us a break lads - haven't had my dinner yet!!
Jim Carrtoll

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 02:08 PM

People can condemn anything they want to - However if someone posts on a forum that Governments condemn something then it follows does it not that there has to be some sort of official statement that shows that - there are no statements official or otherwise from any EU Government that accuses Israel of being a "Terrorist State" or of being guilty of war crimes.

Condemnation by individuals is one thing, condemnation by Governments is another. I would think that on the scale of things the Government of any country would not be too fussed about the former, but would be aware that the latter could have serious consequences for them if not addressed.

My take on the Arab Israeli thing for sometime has been to just let them get on with it. They have had 67 years to sort this out and they have failed spectacularly to do so. Throughout that time one side has accepted all the refugees forced upon it and integrated them into the fabric of their nation, they have prospered and built a stable democracy enjoying a good standard of living. The other has imprisoned large sections of their own population, deliberately kept them in helpless poverty in order to use them as political pawns, they have continually attacked their neighbour using direct attacks and by proxy using various terrorist organisations to do their dirty work for them. They claim to the world that their aim is to establish a Two State solution that they themselves rejected 67 years ago, and even today they can produce no map showing what borders would be acceptable to their side.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 02:14 PM

"Haaretz (Hebrew: הארץ‎) (lit. "The Land [of Israel]", originally Ḥadashot Ha'aretz – Hebrew: חדשות הארץ‎, IPA: [χadaˈʃot haˈʔaʁets] – "News [of] the Land [of Israel]"[3]) is Israel's oldest daily newspaper. It was founded in 1918 and is now published in both Hebrew and English in Berliner format. The English edition is published and sold together with the International New York Times. Both Hebrew and English editions can be read on the Internet. In North America, it comes out as a weekly newspaper, combining articles from the Friday edition with a roundup from the rest of the week. An independent newspaper of record, some commentators state that it plays the role in Israel that The New York Times plays in the United States. It is known for its staunch left-liberal stance on domestic and foreign issues."
"there are no statements official or otherwise from any EU Government that accuses Israel of being a "Terrorist State" or of being guilty of war crimes"
The British Prime Minister attended the funeral ("to pay his respects") to the King of Saudi Arabia at the same time as a journalist was being given 1,000 lashes for speaking out of turn.
Would you wait for condemnation of cimes of the state from such a leader before making your own mind up, based on the known facts (not addressed to you Terrytoon - we already know where your loyalties lie)
You appear to come out of hiding too early
Ji Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 04:06 PM

Instead of claiming mythical support for Israel, why not defend some of the many links to Israel's atrocities - show their not atrocities and you might have made your point - plenty to choose from
Seizing land and driving an entire people out is the action of a terrorist state
The facilitating of the mass murder of 3,500 unarmed refugees is the action of a terrorist state
The deliberate targetting of civilians, the destruction of homes hospitals and shelters known to be occupied, are all actions of a terrorist state
The use of chemicals and anti-weapons on civilians is the action of a terrorist state
The usurpation of land from people who have occupied that land for generations, even millenia, in order to create a monotheist country is the action of a terrorist state.
The seizure of nomadic traditional tribal lands by force, using weapons such as high-powered hoses, chemical sprays and armed troops and soldiers is the action of a terrorist state
Driving those evicted onto untreated former rubbish dumps known to be toxic is the action of a terrorist state   
Establishing a blockade, depriving people of ready access to food, medicines and essential building and agricultural materials and holding it in place for nearly a decade is the action of a terrorist state.
Building a wall across lands which isolate farmers from their lands and workers from their places of work is the action of a terrorist state.
Attempting to set up an apartheid state is the action of a terrorist state.
Offering to share nuclear technology with Apartheid South Africa, a known human rights abuser, is the action of a terrorist state.
Israel has done all these things and more - they are widely reported on, proved beyond doubt and acknowledged - if it wasn't for the U.S. veto, Israel would have been in the International Criminal Courts more times han I've been into my local session.
Israel's behaviour is that of a terrorist state - even heads of its own security forces, Mossad, have described these actions as those of a terrorist state - one all but compared the actions of the most recent of the regimes with the Nazis.
If you wish to defen Isreal, these are the facts you need to tackle - not whether self-interested Governments who would have supported Attila the Hun if he had guaranteed them their oil supplies support it or not - an academic point anyway - virtually all national governments have criticised specific policies of Israel - none have supported them - this came from the same twisted mind that gave you "real historians" who sold books in real bookshops
He is now joined by a real-live 'holocaust survivor denier' who once called British soldiers habitual liars because they said World War One was an atrocity which they were tricked and forced into.
Jim Carroll
Couple of interesting articles on support being given to Israel:
America is the only country to support Israal, no matter what it does
Britain's support for Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 04:37 PM

Jim, those countries have warm relations with Israel and do not call it a terrorist state or a rogue state or accuse it of war crimes or massacres, as I have shown.

If you want to deny that fact, produce some quotes.

Musket, decent governments did not support all those HRC resolutions.
All the nastiest regimes on Earth combine to get them through.

My case is that decent democratic governments support Israel.
The fact that all those nasty states can get resolutions passed does not challenge that view.
I readily acknowledge that it happens all the time, but not with the support of decent democratic governments.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 04:45 PM

Haaretz....well known for it's extremism....

Is that supposed to be a joke, or is it just a delusion?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 05:26 PM

Haaretz, with a readership of around 5% of the news market in Israel, represents an extreme far left ideological viewpoint and just like the extreme far right these are minority positions espoused by idealogues at opposite ends of the spectrum. Of course idealogues have difficulty recognizing themselves as such so they see the extremist, anti-Israel positions taken by Haaretz writers, such as Gideon Levy, as representative of the mainstream when, in fact, they are reflective of only a tiny minority. Once again kudos to Israel for it's tolerance of all viewpoints, the mark of an open society.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 05:36 PM

Thanks for clearing that up, guest - its just a delusion.

You want extremists? Look no farther than Bibi.

I suppose Gideon Levy is an Anti-Semite, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 05:37 PM

kudos to Israel for it's tolerance of all viewpoints

And by the way, tell that to the Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 06:30 PM

I wouldn't consider the "Palestinian" policy of having the future Palestinian state judenfrei a sign of tolerance.....would you?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 06:34 PM

Governments that are member organisations of The UN tend to support the way they vote Keith.

It's called corporacy. They can always vote against as in the case of USA and Israel.

By the way, under standing orders, sub committees of the general council with delegated authority are The UN in their deliberations so to say the many resolutions denouncing Israel do not come from The UN just shows that you are lying in order to impress. Unfortunately for your misinformation attempts, every branch secretary of any pigeon fanciers club knows Robert's Rules.

Unless of course you actually don't know how organisations work, in which case don't embarrass yourself when trying to impress grown ups eh?

I notice Obama has made a clear message with the latest Israeli Americans status. Hopefully it will eventually lead to stopping propping up the corrupt militaristic antagonists and force a proper peace path where Israelis and Palestinians are treated and protected equally.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 06:44 PM

stopping propping up the corrupt militaristic antagonists

So, the US is no longer giving financial aid to Gaza?

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 09:16 PM

Palestinian human rights activist Dr. Bassem Eid:

"I have to tell Europeans that BDS is only motivated by antisemitism. I live in the West Bank, I met over 300 Palestinian workers who have been fired from the SodaStream factory, and I know exactly what the Palestinians are complaining about. The most important issues for the Palestinians right now are economic issues rather than political issues. The majority of Palestinians are seeking dignity rather than identity. Dignity will never be achieved without economic prosperity. If you ask any ordinary Palestinians today what are the three priorities they are seeking, they will say: a job, an education system, and a health care system. Nobody is talking about the wall, the settlements, or a Palestinian state. The BDS is damaging the reputation of the Palestinians. We the Palestinians are building the houses in the settlements. When Israel declares an expansion of houses in settlements, many Palestinians are very happy because this opens more and more jobs for us. Without income, dignity is not possible."

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 15 - 10:16 PM

Thanks, guest, for that C&P about Dr. Eid, proving that there's someone about who is even more delusional than you are. I wouldn't have thought it possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 12:24 AM

He has an opinion that dIffers from yours , as do a number Of peoPle posting to this thread, that does not make them delusional.
There many here who could learn a great deal from being able appreciate that are neither smarter nor more entitled to an opinion than anyone else.
The person quoted in the previous post has great deal of insIght into this issue and should be heard by those are short on facts but big on some vague ideology.
Just my opinion !

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 02:18 AM

"Governments that are member organisations of The UN tend to support the way they vote Keith."

Rather clumsily and badly put Musktwat "Governments that are member organisations of The UN" - FFS!!! Goverments who are also members of organisations that are represented at the UN as "Permanent Observers" would have been clearer and more accurate.

Now the EU is such an organisation and last time I looked each member state of the EU was also a Member of the UN - yet you cannot find a single one that has declared Israel a terrorist state, guilty of war crimes.

Liked the "corporacy" thing - "corpocracy. Noun. (plural corpocracies) A corporate bureaucracy, characterized by ineffective management. A society where the interests of large corporations control economic and political decisions."

Basically two types of "Resolution" come out of the UN those that are binding from the Security Council and those that are non-binding from the General Assembly of the UN - In this it should be clearly understood that the words binding and non-binding refer to the UN and its member states a binding resolution directs and compels member states to act on them, non-binding resolutions mean that individual member states can act as they wish.

Subject: RE: BS: Cultural genocide
From: Musket
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 03:37 AM

Or to put Terribulus's confusing waffle in English., Keith is wrong to seperate bodies set up under UN from UN.

Thank you.

For your words that is. Not the totally wrong inference you put on it.