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BS: boys won't date girls who smoke
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Chet W. Date: 02 Dec 99 - 03:58 PM Thanks, Marion, and I do respect your choices. And it is true, by the way, statistically more likely that a smoker will be prone to things like crime and irresponsibility (I was a teacher in prison for years, so I kept up with such things). This seems to be connected directly with the fact that there is indeed a big correllation between those who smoke and those who are illiterate or live in homes that are dysfunctional anyway. I guess I'm just sticking up for a person's right to be weak sometimes. One thing I've learned from working with troubled (and, yes, criminal) children is that what looks like a choice to you and me may not look like one to somebody else. And not all people are so well-adjusted that they always do what's best for them, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad. I have done many things in my life that were not good for me, mostly during times that were not so good. I feel that maybe I should have been strong enough to do the smart thing, but I wasn't always, and I know others have judged me on things that I think are unimportant, and I've suffered for that. Maybe that's why I'm good at teaching disadvantaged and often unwise young people, because I know what it feels like to be generalized out of people's lives, and I know when that's right and when that's wrong. We all have feet of clay; we are all full of germs; we all make mistakes. I think we owe tolerance and vigilance against double standards. I'll never be casting the first stone. (end of biblical images) Chet |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: catspaw49 Date: 02 Dec 99 - 06:42 PM Hey Cara...I love ya' dear, and I more than understand. In my heavy smoking days, I had a little sign made up for me by a neighboring signmaker, based on a "Shoe" cartoon. It was small enough to fit in my pocket and had a little tab that folded out to make it stand upright. Before lighting up, I simply put it in front of me. It said: "Thank You for Minding Your Own Business" HEY BERT---I think we must have gotten married for the no good reason!!! Fortunately the CRS is keeping us from knowing. LMAO (:<)) Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Mbo Date: 02 Dec 99 - 06:55 PM Maybe I should just shut up, ignore humanity and let it's puffing/guzzling/doping habits go to the De'il. I guess I can't change anyone, and my opinions apparently have no merit round here. If I can't get what I want in a person, then alright! I'll stay a bachelor for life! I'd rather get myself self-actualized than bothering with others! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Little Neophyte Date: 02 Dec 99 - 07:14 PM Catspaw did you just draw a horizontal version of Snidely Whiplash with a double chin? I reckon he's missing his black hat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: DougR Date: 02 Dec 99 - 08:17 PM As an older man, I won't comment on the original question which was directed, I believe to young men and perhaps young women. When I WAS young, there were probably more smokers than non-smokers. One didn't even give a thought as to whether one would or would not date a smoker. That has all changed of course. I smoked for many years. My wife did too. Failing health required that she quit. She didn't want to. I quit because I wanted to, and haven't smoked for twenty years. I love to go to my local pub, but must admit that when I get home wearing smoke filled clothes, I often regret having gone. As long as smokers abide by the rules, however, they have every right to smoke, and I would never consider making unkind remarks to them. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: kendall Date: 02 Dec 99 - 09:49 PM One of my daughters still smokes..I still love her dearly, but, all the sen sen and perfume in the world will not cover that ash tray odor. She doesn't stink, but, her clothes sure do. Smokers listen up...you have a god given right to smoke in any area where it is legal. No problem..however, under my nose is not a legal area, and, I'm not above caustic remarks. So, as they saying goes..If you know the dog bites..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:00 PM Once met a woman of the night in a brothel in Subic Bay she smoked cigars with the fire part IN HER MOUTH far as I could tell she had no customers that night |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: catspaw49 Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:15 PM Well anao, I see why you are, but uh........ There must be a dozen jokes on that line going thru my head right now..........and I'm trying to be good. You're making it very hard...uh, so to speak. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: diesel Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:27 PM Cara - what I would like to add is that if you choose to smoke then it is your right to do so.Who are we to impose laws on others without them having a right to object or vote to repeal such laws.In my own country a pub is where you go to have a pint and meet people,if some of them smoke then it is only a reflection of the society we live in.If I was to object - then what am I doing there in the first place.The laws were not introduced due to health issues - don't belive that for a moment,they were introduced so as to prevent the local authorities from being sued in court for negligence...need we say more. Don't try mask the smell for those 'spontaneous smooches' instead enjoy the smooch - your partner already knows you smoke... If you can accept when there is a wrong time to do something - then naturally you will avoid it (smoking into sombodies face as an example)And if you really believed what your smoking is wrong then you will stop.But right now it sounds as if you are enjoying it - so go for it,meet that smoocher and smooch away. Marion - cop on to reality ! James - a non-smoker |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Cara Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:14 AM Thanks diesel and 'Spaw for the support. It's appreciated!!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: InOBU Date: 03 Dec 99 - 07:16 AM Well... As far as dating a smoker, I am some twenty something years married, but to bring this back to music, my parents both smoked, and it ruined my health, ending a promicing track carreer, as my lung problems are - without a doupt, caused by second hand smoke. I grew up in a music family, and Irish music is a part of my life that I have little choice about, I am complelled to play and it is painful not to, however, the cost to my health from other peoples smoke inculdes an opperation to my throat, which could have taken my voice, which for someone with a long ballad tradition, would not be very nice, and did take away my ability to play the highland pipes, which for an Uilleann piper is not the greatest loss in the world, though it is one I feel, non the less. Law and rights are a profoundly missunderstood concept. A New York judge, in the 1930s, with the great name Learned Hand, once said that your rights end where mine begin, though you have the right to swing your hand, that right ends at my face - to paraphrase slightly. in my middle thirties I decided to go to law school, and had to get an undergad degree, so I spent some 10 years away from the music and the smoke filled pubs, and was surprised at my sudden good health. Now that I have left the legal community and returned to music, the constant smoke has again brought on wretched health. As much as I endorce the right, and it is a right, of smokers to kill themselves, do we not have a right to experience out traditional culture without being murdered by their cigarettes. As to you happy smokers, I spent the better part of a year with my father as he ended several decades of struggle against emhasima. He was a powerful man, who among other things, dug coal at the age of thirteen or so. As a result, his battle against the loss of his lungs was epic. In the end, he did not have the strenght to sit up in bed, and as gravity would pull him down, I had to take him, under the shoulderblades and raise him up on his pillows again, so he could breath. I had to do this, as if the nurces did, he would his skin would come appart where they touched him as they were not so gentle. He was as proud as he was once powerful, and having me have to help him in this little way caused him deep embarassment. We singers are good at remembering history, so let us remember that tobaco, even more than cotten was the industry of slavery, and the sons of sons of bitchs that chained women men and children to plows, now chain men women and children to this weed that is ruining so many lives. As far as sleeping with Ferrets, Little Dorritt, You have sorely damaged my mental immage of Yorksire. I thought sleeping with Ferrets a rather quaint Yorksire tradition! I did a fundraiser concert for the NUM back during the big mine strikes, was it in 86? and my most prised possestion was a NUM union badge from the Yorksire region locals. I lost it while doing a human rights survey among Innu in Quebec, who were trying to stop hydro dams from destroying their hunting lands (sorry Marrion - its too cold there to grow vegies) So, Little Dorret, If you know any NUM members, and they could see it in their hearts, I love to find a replacement for the lost union badge. I can be reached at InOBU@AOL.COM, Sorry for the long ponderous post, Larry Otway |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Mbo Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:14 AM Thanks for the story, Larry. I'm very sorry for your loss, but I'm afraid that you, your father, and many others who have suffered similarly can do nothing to change smokers. We've been trying to show people it was extremely harmful as well as unsavory since the 1600's. It didn't work then and it doesn't work now. People just refuse to understand what they are doing. There was a guy who used to work at the base library who was always telling people about his emphasima. And everyday, when I went there, he'd be outside smoking away. This man had been in WWII and as Tom Brokaw says "Helped save the world" but still couldn't stop smoking. Similarly, I had a relative who had emphasima, who had to wear an oxygen maskjust to breath, and who used to take it off so he could light up. But smokers just roll their eyes at us, and tell us to stop our whining. I wonder who invented the cigarette? I wonder who said "I think I'll roll up this smelly leaf in some paper, catch it on fire, put it in my mouth, and inhale smoke."? Did you know that nicotine is a natural poison created by the tobacco plant to kill bugs that might try to eat it's leaves? It really makes me wonder. --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:23 AM In truth I always have wished that Sir Walter or whoever it was had stuck the damn thing in his ear and said, "Well fuck this...No thrill here...Does nothing for me." Oh well.....It is a POWERFUL addiction. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: InOBU Date: 03 Dec 99 - 10:32 AM Dear Mbo: Funny where smoking comes from. My specialty is Federal Indian Law, and while working for a small Algonquin nation, a young chief, who died much too young from lukemia, was prepairing Kinikinik, tobacco and sage for a pipe. He was doing so with great reverence and suddunly he grinned and looked up at me, and said, You know Larry, this stuff is sacred to us. It is one of the many things we should not have trusted white guys with - all the stuff they add really mess it up. Thanks for the kind thoughts about my dad, he was a great singer, and it was tragic to see him not being able to sing, even more than when, in the end he could no longer talk. Larry Otway |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Mbo Date: 03 Dec 99 - 10:57 AM "'Tis true, 'tis true, 'tis pity, 'tis true." Larry, it's too bad about what happened to tobacco. The Native American's consider it sacred, and use it for special occasions. This I do not have a single problem with, and in fact, I honor the tradition. But you sure don't see those Native Americans who value tobacco as sacred hanging around on corners with a butt in their mouth. They understand it, they don't abuse it. White man came and pumped it full of chemicals and marketed it as some sort of fashionable relaxant or stress buster or something, when really they were chaining people to a potentially dangerous addiction. The modern use of tobacco invalidates everything the Native Americans hold dear about it's special & religious uses. There is a law in my religion (Roman Catholicism) that bring severe penalties against anyone who steals and subsequently sells religious items. I think Native Americans should get together an sue Big Tobacco on this claim, and be rid of commercial tobacco sales. In spite of this, I do feel a great amount sympathy with the North Carolina tobacco growers here, who have grown tobacco for generations, and would be homeless without their cash crop. What to do! What a sad world we live in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: kendall Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:31 AM what do you think happened to the blacksmiths and farriers when the automobile came in? either they evolved into other work or...nothing stays the same, if it did, we would still be in the caves trying to invent fire. Tobacco will never be outlawed because of the revenue it generates. And, in America, money is more important than people. We should remember, THE LOVE OF MONEY IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Frank Hamillton Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:24 PM Marion, Didn't say anything about wife-beating. You misinterpreted me. What I said was abuse. This comes in different forms and degrees. When a smoker ignores the rights of the non-smoker to have breathing airspace, this is a form of abuse. If we use the metaphor of "beating," there is a kind of violence that is implied here. There is a tendency for a smoker to think, what's good for me is also good for you and if you don't like it, that's too bad. This is the bottom of what is called addiction. It's the golden rule in reverse. Addiction is abuse. As to the issue of famous artists, writers, etc., they are not known for their ability to make other people's lives miserable with their addicitions. If they are, this certainly detracts from the gifts that they give us. I've known and have befriended many smokers and I don't have the attitude that they are bad people or somehow inferior to those that don't smoke. Some of the people who I admire have been smokers. But....smoking is a form of abuse. The lungs are beaten, the airspace is violated and the reason many smokers get mad when non-smokers assert their rights is that they have been made aware of their addiction. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Frank Hamilton Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:28 PM There is a scientific quest today to determine if there is a gene that makes some people more susceptible to the ravages of second hand smoke. They may have found it. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Mbo Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:34 PM Straying from the subject of addiction and harm, why can't all cigarettes and cigars use pipe tobacco? At least it has a pleasant, non-offensive, fruity smell. I'd date a girl who smoked a pipe! --Mbo |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: katlaughing Date: 03 Dec 99 - 01:35 PM You can get Native American cigarettes which don't have all of the additives in them, etc. I was thinking tobacco was the NA's revenge on the *white man* but, in all of the powwows, sweats, sundances, and other gatherings it has been my privilege to attend or participate in, I saw a lot of Indians smoking regular cigarettes. In fact, ironically, a pack of cigs was a standard offering to a medicine man who come down from the Rosebud to do a sweat for some of us here. It is sad to see and I don't think even a consciousnes of reverence for tobacco could negate the harmful effects of the regular cigs offered. katlaughing |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Gary T Date: 03 Dec 99 - 01:38 PM Cigarette tobacco is cured differently from pipe and cigar tobacco. The method is called "bright" curing. Bright cured tobacco provides its chemical effect to the brain in about .7 seconds after inhaling. A sharp, quick draw provides a stimulant effect, and a long, slow draw provides a calming effect. So here you have the "perfect" drug--generally affordable, so no need to turn to a life of crime to use it; easily self-administered; the user subconsciously smokes it in a manner to provide the desired effect; near-immediate results; and it typically takes decades for it to do you in. The aromatic ingredients in many pipe tobaccos usually do much more for the pleasure of the bystander than for the smoker. I'm not sure what the reasons are, but surely the tobacco companies have decided that aromatic cigarettes won't fly, sales-wise. They've certainly tried all manner of things to increase sales. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Gary T Date: 03 Dec 99 - 01:40 PM One detail in my post didn't seem to be very clear. That's "point seven" seconds--seven tenths of a second. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: bob schwarer Date: 03 Dec 99 - 03:13 PM Marion: If God didn't want us to eat meat, why did He make it taste so good? |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: bob schwarer Date: 03 Dec 99 - 03:14 PM Q: Do you smoke after you have sex? A: Don't know. I never looked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: JedMarum Date: 03 Dec 99 - 03:54 PM I just have to laugh; this thread sure has a life of its own! |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GOOD THING HE CAN'T READ MY MIND (Lavin) From: Marion Date: 03 Dec 99 - 04:12 PM Yes Liam, good one! As my last official act as a medal-holding member of Mudcat's Tirage Team, I'm going to convert this into a music thread: Here's a song by Christine Lavin; it's very funny. Happy thoughts, darlings.
Marion |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: katlaughing Date: 03 Dec 99 - 04:20 PM Bob, maybe to YOUR tastebuds! NOT mine!**BG** |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: InOBU Date: 03 Dec 99 - 04:26 PM Hi Kat: Im glad you responded to Mbo, I was going to say the same thing, it is important not to over sentimentalize natives. The brother I refered to, preparing the Kinikinik as completely addicted to mainstream cigs. He did, in the last months of his life, make a distinction and I believe he successfully quit smokeing before he died. I have also made gifts of regular old smokes when I did not have tobacco bundles or my favoirte, some tabocco a freind brings up for serimonial use, grown in the Amazon by the Shippibo. As to the Catholic comparison, another might be that there is a difference between drinking wine as part of the communion and wine for wines own sake, but that does not meen a huge number of priests arent addicted to alcohol. I, on rare occations use tobacco as part of my spirtual life, perhaps less than once or twice a year... Kat, do you know my old pal Dan Charging Hawk from Pine Ridge? He is sometimes seen up Rosebud way. Great story teller! All the best all, and please take the ciggies outside for a puff... enjoy it completely but leave me out of the pleasure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: Frank Hamilton Date: 03 Dec 99 - 06:57 PM A lot of performers are limited to non-smoke venues. I'm one. Even the ones that are ostensibly non-smoking often have smoke drifting in from other parts of the building because of designated smoking areas in the proximity. Also, chemicals are in the walls from the smoking-allowed shows. Even if a venue owner designates a non-smoking show, if he/she also has smoking shows, the stuff is residual and the place smells like an ashtray. I see this as a kind of tyranny that penalizes performers that choose to be healthy by forcing them to breathe side-stream smoke. Peggy Lee had emphesyma and didn't smoke. Frank |
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Subject: RE: BS: boys won't date girls who smoke From: SingsIrish Songs Date: 03 Dec 99 - 09:14 PM It's a personal choice if someone won't date someone who smokes... When I went off to college and was away from my smoking parents, I realized how horrible my clothes used to smell. I can't imagine how my clothes smelled to my classmates when I was in gradeschool. But then again, perhaps the majority of grownups smoked, too. I know it would be a factor for me in dating (well, at least cigarette and cigars)--cigarette and cigar smoke are definitely more offensive than pipe smoke. (I have always loved going into the tobacconists shops and inhaling the wonderful aromas of pipe tobacco, though I am not a smoker. I do like the legislations in the States that prohibit smoking in public places, including bars. Another factor that really affects me is seeing how my Dad has been affected by smoking. He smoked til he just couldn't anymore--sense of smell got too sensitive. He is now living what is left of his limited life--he suffers from progressive emphysema that is well advanced. Even surgery wasn't a permanent "treatment". Imagine breathing with lungs that are working only at 11%--might be less than that now....It is sad, and he isn't that old either! Yeah, we aren't going to live forever, but should making the "most of it" include doing something that may cut it drastically short? Anyway, to each his own. Mary |