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Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?

Rozza 16 Jun 15 - 08:24 AM
Manitas_at_home 16 Jun 15 - 08:57 AM
Manitas_at_home 16 Jun 15 - 09:01 AM
Jack Campin 16 Jun 15 - 09:38 AM
Manitas_at_home 16 Jun 15 - 10:47 AM
Jack Campin 16 Jun 15 - 11:07 AM
GUEST,leeneia 16 Jun 15 - 11:34 AM
Rozza 16 Jun 15 - 02:07 PM
Jack Campin 16 Jun 15 - 03:20 PM
Rozza 17 Jun 15 - 08:39 AM
Jack Campin 17 Jun 15 - 09:08 AM
Rozza 17 Jun 15 - 12:08 PM
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Subject: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Rozza
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 08:24 AM

According to BLSounds, the tune I know as "Jimmy Garson's March" has the real title "King William's March", but according to the sleeve notes on "Swan-Upmanship", the Old Swan Band CD,:Jimmy Garson was an Orcadian musician recorded by Peter Kennedy in 1955. One of the tunes he played was an untitled march tune, which Peter Kennedy told Paul Burgess he decided to call "King William's March", just because he felt it should have a title. We don't subscribe to any extra-musical association this tune may have, so prefer to call it "Jimmy Garson's March" as it's a fine melody!"

So...Jimmy Garson's March or King William's March?


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 08:57 AM

Jimmy Garson's.

It's usual to call an unnamed tune after the person it was collected from whereas King William's March does seem to have been plucked out of the air for no good reason.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 09:01 AM

Nice version from the Rakes here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WluG_W6cXhY


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 09:38 AM

It's a variant of "The Boyne Water" (particularly the second part), which is in fact a tune from the time of William III, still in the repertoire of Orange flute bands. So Garson got the extra-musical associations pretty much right. The resemblance is close enough to get your head kicked in if you sang or played it in places with a serious Orange/Green divide.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 10:47 AM

I read the OP as saying that Peter Kennedy chose the name.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 11:07 AM

It isn't clear from that message which "he" is intended. And Kennedy wasn't the most reliable of fieldworkers.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 11:34 AM

Thanks for the link, Jack. I played some versions of 'Boyne Water' as seen on abcnotation.com, and I agree that 'Boyne Water' and 'King William's March' are similar.

In fact, it's so similar that I think it's inaccurate to call it Jimmy Garson's March.

I suspect that it was given the name 'King William's March' because most people knew the tune was the same but different, and they wanted a title that also was the same but different. (The OP makes it clear that Peter Kennedy actually gave it the name.)

It's a good tune, and I might have added it to my collection, but I'm not interested in using music to promote ethnic division.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Rozza
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 02:07 PM

Interesting. There is a tune called "King William's March", composed by Jeremiah Clarke (c.1674 - 1707)

Jeremiah Clarke "King William's March"

It's clearly not Jimmy Garson's March, although there are similarities, as there are with Boyne Water. But close enough to be indistinguishable?

Oral tradition in action. I suspect Peter Kennedy gave it the name.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 16 Jun 15 - 03:20 PM

Kennedy would only have done that if he'd known of the historical connection - it can't have been a blind guess as the original post has it. So it's surely more likely the tradition came through Garson.

BTW another incarnation of the tune is for "Parcel of Rogues", which was first written down with an indication of "The Boyne Water" as the tune. Hence, perhaps, the way it starts out talking about rivers.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Rozza
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 08:39 AM

I've had definite confirmation that Peter Kennedy did claim to have given the title "King William's March" to an untitled march tune that he recorded from the Garson Trio. They didn't give it the name.Why Kennedy chose that particular title is another question.

So, it's not "King William's March", and never claimed to be "Boyne Water". Think I'll stick to "Jimmy Garson's March".


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 09:08 AM

The point is that the tune does have a definite link to King William. When Kennedy gave it that name he must have had a reason for choosing King William rather than King Olaf or King Malcolm: "just because he felt it should have a title" doesn't cut it when the title reflects a real historical connection.


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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Jimmy Garson's March or King William's?
From: Rozza
Date: 17 Jun 15 - 12:08 PM

But what definite link? I agree he must have had a reason for choosing King William. Were the Garson's Orangeman?


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