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BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.

Donuel 20 Jun 15 - 09:20 PM
GUEST,Olddude 20 Jun 15 - 09:48 PM
GUEST,# 20 Jun 15 - 10:06 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 20 Jun 15 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,Olddude 21 Jun 15 - 12:33 AM
GUEST,Olddude 21 Jun 15 - 11:53 AM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Jun 15 - 02:45 PM
Donuel 21 Jun 15 - 03:38 PM
Donuel 21 Jun 15 - 04:32 PM
Donuel 21 Jun 15 - 04:54 PM
GUEST,Olddude 21 Jun 15 - 10:40 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 22 Jun 15 - 02:27 AM
GUEST,Olddude 22 Jun 15 - 03:09 AM
Stu 22 Jun 15 - 04:45 AM
TheSnail 22 Jun 15 - 05:39 AM
Donuel 22 Jun 15 - 02:46 PM
Donuel 22 Jun 15 - 03:00 PM
Donuel 22 Jun 15 - 03:00 PM
GUEST,Olddude 22 Jun 15 - 07:44 PM
GUEST 22 Jun 15 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,Olddude 22 Jun 15 - 07:54 PM
TheSnail 23 Jun 15 - 10:47 AM
GUEST,Olddude 23 Jun 15 - 11:33 AM
GUEST,Olddude 23 Jun 15 - 11:26 PM
GUEST,Olddude 23 Jun 15 - 11:30 PM
GUEST,Olddude 23 Jun 15 - 11:42 PM
GUEST,Olddude 23 Jun 15 - 11:57 PM
Donuel 26 Jun 15 - 09:45 PM
GUEST,Olddude 26 Jun 15 - 09:49 PM
Donuel 26 Jun 15 - 10:31 PM
Donuel 27 Jun 15 - 01:15 AM
GUEST,Olddude 27 Jun 15 - 08:40 PM
GUEST,Olddude 27 Jun 15 - 08:44 PM
Donuel 28 Jun 15 - 03:33 PM
GUEST,Olddude 29 Jun 15 - 02:56 PM

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Subject: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 09:20 PM

We are now at a point in time when current events will enhance your understanding of a discovery of far reaching implications.

So here it is; We have polarized the actual fabric of reality outcomes to two possibilities instead of twelve or more. Although I say two, fewer is more accurate. What has happened, I presume by accident, is that we have influenced a quantum wave function collapse by merely using cameras or NSA data collection on a massive scale, humans are actually polarizing future possibilities without intent or physical actions.

To preface further explanation think of when Einstein introduced general relativity. Some rejected the findings on the basis of status quo, lack of understanding or Nazi Jewish science bigotry. When it came to the discovery of quantum mechanics even Einstein could not accept it. While the theory was not complete and certain "uncertainties" were taken too far, Einstein was never "mechanically inclined".

For the last 95 years an effect of quantum reality has been staring us in the face unrecognized. When a third energetic field is added there is more sense and reality to the impossible quantum realm than expected.

The path to understand how and why polarization of reality is possible involves a overview of the historic double slit experiment and having a sense of the "wave collapse function". Anticipating someone would claim that humans are not quantum sized I remind you that the process of our thoughts are.

We can never know if polarization of reality is overall detrimental or not. Limiting possibilities seems intuitively a bad thing, but again we can never know. We can experiment however. Evidence might be gleaned from internet activity. we could turn off all the machines and measure response from people's activity on line. We need to see the extent of polarization. I think we all sense an exponential increase of polarization over the last 2 years.

I remind you now of the first sentence in this post.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 09:48 PM

In mathematics it is all about abelian variety


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 10:06 PM

Donuel, general relativity was introduced in 1915.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 20 Jun 15 - 10:33 PM

Mr. D.


You are eliquently verbose.

But as every programer knows...

The world is composed...of ones and zeros.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Mudcat is a grand forest within which to rant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 12:33 AM

You could also look at cm-type abelian variety dealing with polarization. Cool stuff


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 11:53 AM

No gargoyle it is composed of sub atomic particles in various states not yet determined by mathematics. But I am working on it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 02:45 PM

Translaton pleas...


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 03:38 PM

Schwartzchild was the first to solve one of Einstein's field equations in 1916. It took longer to prove special relativity with photographic proof that mass curves light but it wasn't until 1919 and repeated in 1922 that photographs proved light is curved by mass. Schwartzchid did solve an equation but it was an equation with two fudges. It was an equation describing a static universe with no torque/spin and without an energy field that holds the energy of space in near balance, in other words he made up a cosmological constant to stand in for this massive amount of missing energy.

Likewise Quantum Mechanics is missing something. It is marveled how well it predicts beautifully the behavior of the subatomic articles but no one knows why it includes absolute impossibilities.

It is missing a third element/energy field.

A French scientist accidently built a model of quantum particles.
It is a bit like the experiments I did with underwater speakers modulating a pan of water that made the water dance in small fountains. anyway if you drop a tiny drop od silicon on the water it dances about and organizes itself with other drops exactly a subatomic particles. It even creates its own pilot wave and will trace a wave pattern from a double slit gate.

The model had a vibrating plate of a specific frequency. In nature I believe a kind of vibrating plate is what we do not see. It should be an energetic field of space. there additional fields of energy that counter balance each other.

My wife loves murder mysteries and I love cosmic mysteries. I can't claim to keep a straight face that my prior explanations of dark matter, dark energy, cosmic inflation, quantum mechanic corrections and the correct number of counter balancing dimensions are all correct. But just as Jules Verne researched intensively before embarking upon novels of new technology I know enough to use plausible plot lines for science fiction that will go where no one has gone before. In hindsight people often are amazed how predictive sci fi has been.

A clever person may already see a story about a world where reality is polarized and global "tails" are thrown bad 5 times in a row and loss of privacy is questioned under entirely new circumstances.


Old Dude I do not know the math you speak of but truth will out.
I know conceptual physics and my wife knows economic theory.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 04:32 PM

A 1 and 0 universe is the matrix theory. we really are looking for a lattice construction in space today.

particles only. I flatly think not.

My theory again is that in and between dimensions there are combinations of various stable 'stuff' ;
particle' particle, neutrino
particle wave, known periodic chart
wave particle, known photon
wave space,
space wave,
space,space'

'= prime    All particle wave space stuff interacts in the field of space prime [space']

While it was not always true, today, space is winning.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 04:54 PM

There is one section of the universe in which the fabric of space is not space prime but remarkably a substance similar to toilet paper in dimension and tendency to tear. It is called Moab15.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 21 Jun 15 - 10:40 PM

Abelian variety don is the math for polarization. It is pretty hairy stuff, I struggle a bit with it but you can look it up on the Web. There are some great examples.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 02:27 AM

Keep taking the relativistic, quantised tablets!


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 03:09 AM

Here is one description on it.

For intuition about polarizations, it may be helpful to think like this: the category of abelian varieties over a field k (say up to isogeny) acts like a full subcategory of the category of representations of a group G on Q-vector spaces. (To show the shift in thinking we can write V(A) when we think of A as like a vector space.) The category of abelian varieties is too small to admit anything like the tensor products that exist in the larger category of G-representations, but one can see some multilinear structures. In particular, the dual abelian variety is like a dual representation---or at least a dual representation twisted by a character. A divisorial correspondence between abelian varieties A and B (a sufficiently rigidified line bundle on A×kB---a biextension of (A,B) by Gm) is like a G-invariant bilinear form on V(A)×V(B). A polarization on A is a divisorial correspondence on A×kA satisfying a symmetry and positivity condition (ampleness of pullback along the diagonal), which is like a G-invariant bilinear form on V(A)×V(A) satisfying a symmetry and positivity condition. There are some subtleties in the translation; for example, the symmetry on side of A corresponds to antisymmetry on the side of V(A). We know from the early pages of books on representation theory that G-invariant bilinear forms satisfying positivity conditions are useful---they give us complete reducibility, for example---and Weil used polarizations in a similar way in [1955d]. The fact that abelian varieties are polarizable corresponds to something like the fact that G is a compact group, but the aforementioned subtleties mean that statement is not quite right.

These vague remarks can be made precise when k=C in the way that Francesco Polizzi suggests: take V(A) to be H1(Aan,Q) equipped with its standard Hodge structure, and the above remarks correspond to some of the theory of theta functions (which is what Matsusaka had in mind in his introduction)


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 04:45 AM

I've read this thread but don't have the slightest clue what you're all taking about. Olddude's last post has turned my brain cell to a quivering mass of befuddlement.

I'm sticking to studying dinosaurs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 05:39 AM

Is this GUEST,Olddude any relation to the huntin' shootin' fishin' olddude that we are used to?


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 02:46 PM

Old Dude is speaking a language that has taken years to speak let alone master, I too have to the best of my ability tried describe with vague references something like an iceberg, the part we do not see but is none the less there.   

I make light of the sum of my conclusions over many decades because I don't want to sound like I suffer delusions of grandeur. I take the risk because classical physics has reached the near end of the empirically knowable and often can no longer be modeled to demonstrate something in our 3d spacetime. There is more than our 3d spacetime.

In all seriousness, geniuses, composers, inventors report almost uniformly that their best ideas come to them almost as though it is dictated to them. From who where or why these ideas are being transmitted is attributed to all sorts of sources.

I claim a quantum field that touches everywhere at once is respondsible along with a suitable receptive mind. The brain is just the hardware. This pervasive quantum field is also existing in its own relative time that may be ahead or behind our personal 3d spacetime. This week I have had a very active receptivity to future events of about 24 hours. 4 very real events happened exactly as imagined or dreamed images. For me one in four or five weeks is hot while the others are empty of this phenomena.

18 years ago I said the best cosmologist would connect the disciplines of philosophy, physics, geometry,science fiction and mathematics. With that kind of multi perspective insight much could be realized. Mono disciplined approaches are prone to too many errors based on assumptions of their own singular perspective.

Just 10 years ago a chronic disability I call dyslexia would have prevented me from describing even these basic thoughts to you. Practice is as important as location , location , location. Do I wish I had Amos' writing talent all my life? Sure but its what you do with what little you have.

Old dude practiced and voila! He can think in another language but just as importantly he could explain it in English.
No matter how hard something looks at first, practice and you will be delighted and illuminated.

Just last night I heard a cosmologist on coast to coast radio and she discussed 90% of the things in this thread. Coincidence ?.
Ruth Casner (Castner} wrote 'Understanding Unseen Reality'


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 03:00 PM

By the way Ruth Castner got her masters here at MD university and a PHD in philosophy at Stanford.

Multi perspectivity is essential. It can far exceed a whole panel of Physicists who would all suffer from the invisible cloak of dominance.

The invisible cloak of dominance is best described by school kids going into class seeing pictures of all the Presidents on the wall.
The boys see the pictures and think President, President, President...
The girls see, not me, not me, not me...
The boys are ignorant of the girl's perception.
Likewise any dominant group are blind to non dominant thinking and perception often to their loss or peril.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 03:00 PM

By the way Ruth Castner got her masters here at MD university and a PHD in philosophy at Stanford.

Multi perspectivity is essential. It can far exceed a whole panel of Physicists who would all suffer from the invisible cloak of dominance.

The invisible cloak of dominance is best described by school kids going into class seeing pictures of all the Presidents on the wall.
The boys see the pictures and think President, President, President...
The girls see, not me, not me, not me...
The boys are ignorant of the girl's perception.
Likewise any dominant group are blind to non dominant thinking and perception often to their loss or peril.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:44 PM

Yeah it's me snail the hunting fishing guy but math is relaxing to me :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:45 PM

Posting from a parallel universe, Donuel, (I note you are posting in dual)? Or, are you establishing balance -possibly to avoid singular polarity?


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 22 Jun 15 - 07:54 PM

Complex polarization and don is a genius.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: TheSnail
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 10:47 AM

Didn't mean to doubt you, Olddude, just an aspect of you multitudinous skills I hadn't encountered before.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 11:33 AM

No problem at all my brother. Math between fishing i am a strange one Lol


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 11:26 PM

Don, isn't that where string theory comes into play?


The theory states that the space in between subatomic particles are almost massless strings from type 2a string theory. These string have so little mass (roughly .83 x 10 to the -5 GeV) that they are undetectable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 11:30 PM

I know there are many variations on strings is this one discounted. I read it once in theory but like you said strings maybe now discounted


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 11:42 PM

I know they are now talking of absolute vacuum and dark matter but I don't see it. Dark matter would solidify all particles creating a big ass black hole i think. Perhaps the charge released by the very rotations of the particles is the key in theory. Don't know but fun to think about.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 23 Jun 15 - 11:57 PM

Maybe it is really just electrons. If you think about it now that you got me going, the uncertainty principal states that we really cannot be sure of any position of electrons. It's better just to think of them as waves. Hmmm


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 09:45 PM

What is detectable is energy. It is a kind of energy that acts like a cell wall.

The incredibly minute area of energy surrounding particles is still scaled to the energy of the rest of the universe so that the intense energy, in that tiny empty space, prevents any two particles from actually touching. It is easier to split particles to smaller particles than it is to push lets say one electron inside another electron.

The energy is something like planks # to 10 to the 32 power.
Even the energy surrounding space {space'}is almost that big. The energy pushing down on space prime is slightly smaller now so space prime is expanding. Why space is expanding may be a balancing action countering the exponential growth of black holes intense mass or it may be a dissipation of the energy that bounds space dimensions .

If you think that the explosion of an atomic fusion bomb is big, the explosion of a space bomb, overcoming the resisting energy of space to release the energy of space prime, could be many orders of magnitude bigger. It seems the smaller the entity released to energy the more powerful it is be it from molecules to atoms to space itself.

It would be wise for admin to let me erase the prior paragraph at some future time since bigger bombs is not what I am about.

I bet you know the high energy number. I recall energies ranging from 10 to 19 all the way to 10 to the 32 that surround some particles but the bigger point is that the energy sealing in a particle is the same as the energy of the entire energy of the entire universe but in a very small area of space.
Einstein had a hard time realizing these energies so he stuck in a cosmological constant that kept things in order to describe a static universe. Well guess what, we are not in a static universe.

If we ever learn to manipulate space prime, a dimension that touches every point in all the dimensions everywhere, we would have a handle on instant {like entangled particles} travel as well as traveling in time directions as Greene suggests in his slicing the loaf of time bread thought experiment. {There is a great video of cutting the space loaf}

Old Dude, We should not be able to prove space string vibrations exist by seeing them but we may not be able to see space or space prime forces either. In a way you showed me how my varying series of particles through space quantities stand in as another way of thinking about and talking about strings and the dimensions in which they reside. Eureka

We will someday learn how to measure these currently unseen forces by predicting what they would do under certain conditions. THE SCARY part is that we are unsure of the events following a ripping of space in the HADRON COLLIDER or elsewhere. As far as we know maybe careful ripping is what powers/move the most remarkable ufos.

Since w have reached the limits of classical physics we are free to think in these new terms in the name of modern physics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 09:49 PM

Thanks don that was very enjoyable and thoughtful


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jun 15 - 10:31 PM

For me as fun as fishing, I sit and think about how for the last 20 years cosmologists also sit and think how a particle resembles a black hole in some respects, how a black hole resembles an elementary particle, how the observable universe is like an interior of a black hole & how the forces of mass and space are interdependent counter repelling and how space is now discovered to be winning as it accelerates possibly toward an entropy where energy drops to a lower state hanging the universe as we know it.

Maybe Earth intelligence was born too late to become a class 1 or 2 civilization. Maybe other intelligence was so early it is gone. Maybe We have extra terrestrial interaction and suffer from mutual misinterpretation. hey its Friday sci fi nite.

As long as I live in a world where a man like Donald Trump has even a slight possibility of accessing nuclear weapons I must recognize the universe is a strange place indeed.

I have a long held private belief about the space prime dimension. IF AN INTELIGENT PEOPLE LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF SPACE PRIME FROM US AND OUR 300 PLUS NUCLEAR EXPLOSIONS HAVE {damn caps} caused an equal and opposite effect on their side of space prime, They have a damn good reason to stop us and be pissed. Apparently they forgave us but are not anxious to save us from ourselves.

old dude your post at 11:42 requires an interesting and lengthy response


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 01:15 AM

I post from 2 different computers out of laziness, is this causing double posts or something.
If genius had a co efficient of ability facility vs. inability disability I am 5 to 1 inability.

so genius, it ain't me dude no no no it...

My can't do list is embarrassingly long but worst of all, like in the movie 50 first dates I have a migraine rhythm that means I am clear 1 week and flat in memory and creativity for the next 3 weeks. I hate it but its the hand I'm dealt.

Remember the book Sometimes a great notion? Was it Ken Keysey?
Well I didn't read it but I bet it applies.




I postulated dark matter is not all normal 3d space time matter. It lives as a neighboring dimension that has one foot in our dimension and one foot in its own. It has its own kind of Higgs and force particles with mass as well as neutrinos from our dimension. The force of gravity in dark matter is strong in the sense that it has a more pervasive and farther reaching quality. It seems to not obey the inverse square law. It is strong over galactic distances. The quality of gravity is different than our dimension.
In the next dimension over from dark matter the force of gravity decreases in another aspect. By the time you go 2 dimensions over and reach the space dimensions, gravity has diminished to virtually zero.

Look at Black Holes like this: Black holes are black holes.
In other words a particular black hole is the same black hole in all the dimensions. each dimension does not have its own separate hole.

A black hole is composed of the gargantuan forces of mass and space that includes dark matter dimensional energies our space time particle dimension and all the forms of energetic space dimensions.

IF you could look inside a black hole, the top hemisphere is a mirror image of the bottom hemisphere. Energies capable of ripping through the total energy of the universe that insulate particles from one another and space from its counter balanced space are unleashed inside the black hole. At the center, all that was a infinitesimal solid and all things that had been energetic space combine to make a primordial space energy. In our dimension if energy is greater than forces to contain energy, the excess energy squirts out the poles in the form of gamma rays and x rays. In the other dimensions equivalent eruptions occur. Can you picture ultra energetic space streaming out the poles of a black hole?

The black hole you might think is the most solid thing in the universe but it is invisible. We know why. The fabric of space prime is moving faster than light carrying what could be seen away faster than light can go.

now here is the most crazy mo fo of them all in a black hole. All the mass becomes space for a time and all the space becomes mass for a time and all the time inside the hole STOPS. It is also spinning damn fast.
The speed at which mass switches to space and back is a finite fundamental speed. There are also infinite results inside a black hole that is big enough to spawn new universes. This is rejected by mathematicians. they assume infinities are impossible.

Lastly I believe the Un certainty principle in quantum mechanics is where classical physics went off the rails. Instead I believe real events are happening that are not impossible but there are dimensions that are not being taken into account. While perfect to predict some things, quantum mechanics can say many true things about the quantum world. But its like it doesn't know the "room" it is describing has no floor, so impossible things only appear to happen. Oops you are in the apt. below and didn't know why. When we find the floor we will see how

I offer geometric solutions as answers to mysteries of dark matter, dark energy and new space creation and new mass creation.
Basically the nature of some of your questions revealed little understanding.
I admit no understanding of the math model of variations. I see this is the point where animation would show certain relationships all at once.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 08:40 PM

Very cool don


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 27 Jun 15 - 08:44 PM

I am not a phycist, just an amateur playing with math and theory


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jun 15 - 03:33 PM

Remember a decade ago when I posted we could run our cars with on board water fractionalizing units powered by microwave sound in turn powered by solar? Its like having a Hydrogen car that can make enough fuel to get to a distant charging station.

Today we are using this method to charge our devices since microwaves do real work and transfer to electricity with ease. They do enough real work at a specific frequency it separates oxygen from hydrogen. It always has and always will.

There was so much opposition to my idea perhaps because people were thinking I had proposed a perpetual motion generator. Far from it but extra charging is common place for all hybrids today whether they have energy recollecting brakes or not. Johns Hopkins started some research but the grad students moved on blinf to the ultimate potential.

NPR covered the inventor that thought of the shunts for the heart who has now made a simple electro magnetic de-migrainator.

Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best. Oh by the way the unit is real and takes only 30 seconds to charge up'

I created the first cochlear device to help deaf musicians that has really taken off in the last 35 years.

My next idea is to create rna messengers so dna will be told to add a specific protein formation of cells that insulate nerves as a treatment for MS. Thus is a direct treatment that aims at a cure since the treatment is a permanent {non inheritable} way.
The first iteration of this idea was to clone and add the cells but today we have technology to cause the body to make it on an ongoing basis themselves.

oh dude, I'm glad you are not a phy cyst. sounds awful.

Maybe I'll keep this thread to chronicle all my ideas that will be overlooked this decade. After all this is the bull shit section. All bull shit and no forum. After all posting one out of 4 weeks does not allow for a free interchange of BS wit and sometimes a weird idea.

Time to look into the de-migrainator.


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Subject: RE: BS: Polarizing Reality on a global scale.
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 29 Jun 15 - 02:56 PM

Voice text comes out strange or my fat thumb Lol


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