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Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic

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GUEST,Ewan McVicar 08 Jul 15 - 04:26 AM
GUEST,Anne Neilson 08 Jul 15 - 11:51 AM
GUEST 08 Jul 15 - 12:24 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 15 - 06:51 AM
Gallus Moll 09 Jul 15 - 08:01 PM
Jack Campin 11 Oct 20 - 07:43 PM
Jim McLean 12 Oct 20 - 04:25 AM
GUEST,Observer 12 Oct 20 - 05:29 AM
GUEST 12 Oct 20 - 11:32 AM
Jim McLean 12 Oct 20 - 05:32 PM
Jim McLean 12 Oct 20 - 05:46 PM
GUEST 12 Oct 20 - 06:34 PM
GUEST,Observer 13 Oct 20 - 02:21 AM
Jim McLean 13 Oct 20 - 03:29 AM
Jim McLean 13 Oct 20 - 04:39 AM
GUEST,Observer 13 Oct 20 - 10:41 AM
Jim McLean 13 Oct 20 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Observer 14 Oct 20 - 03:13 AM
Jim McLean 14 Oct 20 - 04:35 AM
John MacKenzie 14 Oct 20 - 04:53 AM
GUEST,Annewiseowl 09 Nov 20 - 07:51 PM
Gallus Moll 10 Nov 20 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,Observer 11 Nov 20 - 03:05 AM
Mrrzy 13 Nov 20 - 09:36 AM
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Subject: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 04:26 AM

Me again, Joe.
People have been chasing me for years for this out of print book - The Eskimo Republic, Scots Political Song In Action 1951-1999. Just made it into a Kindle so folk can get it, go to Amazon Books and search for Eskimo Republic.
Ewan


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 11:51 AM

The title of Ewan's book comes from a song by the most prolific anti-nuclear writer Thurso Berwick (geographical nom-de-plume of Glasgow teacher Morris Blythman).

At an early CND protest in the Holy Loch (what an ironic position for the US nuclear base, near Faslane!), the anti-nuclear supporters were 'attacking' the US base ship Proteus in canoes when Captain Lanning contemptuously dismissed them as Eskimoes -- little did he understand the power of Glasgow humour to deflate and eventually demolish the "justification" for the American presence!


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 15 - 12:24 PM

Thanks Anne for the historical note.

Ewan--am still looking for the reference to a certain custom ---a very slow reader!!


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 06:51 AM

Others reading this will be puzzled by the above message from 'Guest' re a custom.
So am I!
Ewan


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 09 Jul 15 - 08:01 PM

me too - whit are yez talkin' aboot?


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jack Campin
Date: 11 Oct 20 - 07:43 PM

It seems there is a covid-19 outbreak at the Faslane base.

Maybe a new verse to one of these songs?


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 04:25 AM

After very extensive research by myself, Stewart Black and Bill Wagman, Lanning's reference to the kayakers as Eskimos cannot be found. The conclusion is that another captain dismissed them in derogatory terms, but didn't use the word Eskimo.
The collective assumption is that Morris invented the phase himself...... I'm speaking as one of the original Eskimos!


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:29 AM

"Lanning's reference to the kayakers as Eskimos cannot be found. The conclusion is that another captain dismissed them in derogatory terms, but didn't use the word Eskimo."

Correcting the footnote supplied by Anne Neilson above a small group of people in kayaks [Not canoes] attempted to disrupt the arrival and mooring of the submarine depot ship USS Proteus when she arrived in Holy Loch. There was only one instance of this and it was unsuccessful. The conclusion drawn by Jim McLean after his extensive research is also incorrect "another captain" ships only have ONE Captain so if Lanning, Commanding Officer and Captain of USS Proteus did not make any reference to the kayakers then no Captain made such a reference.

If memory serves me correctly there were something like six to nine kayaks most did not interfere and those that did were tipped over by Royal Navy Divers and USS Proteus moored up as planned.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 11:32 AM

https://www.thebottleimp.org.uk/2011/05/a-k-a-thurso-berwick-doon-amang-the-eskimos/?print=print

I don`t know if that will help or hinder, but there ya go.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:32 PM

Observer, The Daily Record on the 24th May 1961 reported under the headline "Pathetic bunch".
On board the Proteus, Captain J. C. Rap, commanding the marine detachment, described the demonstrators as. "A pathetic little bunch who are trying to change the world. They are nothing more than a nuisance ".

More than one captain??

Guest: yes, the bottle imp article has been seen a long time ago. Gordon McCulloch was an old friend but some of his references have been shown to be incorrect.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 05:46 PM

I'm waiting on Observer's apology.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Oct 20 - 06:34 PM

Thank you, Jim. I appreciate the correction/education.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 02:21 AM

Apology for what?

A ship does only have ONE Captain [Normal term for referring to a ship's commanding officer irrespective of his actual rank].

Captain Richard Lanning USN - Sixth most Senior rank in the USN. Lanning's equivalent rank in the USMC would be that of Colonel USMC which is their highest field rank.

Captain J.C. Rap USMC - Third most Junior rank in the USMC. Rap's equivalent rank in the USN would be that of a lowly Lieutenant.

Rap way below Lanning's pay grade and weight of responsibilities - so not the same thing at all. Mind you if what was reported was true, Rap wasn't far off the mark in his observations nothing was achieved. USS Proteus did moor up and Site One was established and it did remain in service for as long as it was required [March 1961 to March 1992].

The Daily Record?? AKA Scotland's Daily Comic, wouldn't believe everything you read in the newspapers Jim - especially not that one.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 03:29 AM

Captain J. C. Rap was aboard the Proteus...... fact.
I have seen the report with pictures.....fact.
The reporter was a well know Scottish journalist.... fact.
What's your agenda Onserver?


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 04:39 AM

Sorry for the typo: ...."what's your agenda Observer?"


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 10:41 AM

No agenda.

"At an early CND protest in the Holy Loch (what an ironic position for the US nuclear base, near Faslane!), the anti-nuclear supporters were 'attacking' the US base ship Proteus in canoes when Captain Lanning contemptuously dismissed them as Eskimoes"

The above is pure fabrication.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Oct 20 - 04:19 PM

So you agree with my research, thank you.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 03:13 AM

Agree with it? That should come as no surprise at all to you Mr. McLean as back in September 2018 I accurately predicted what the result of your research would be:

1. 5th September 2018

"Personally, and again this is entirely my own opinion, I doubt whether McLean will come up with any verifiable evidence at all that Captain Richard Laning USN ever came out with the remark mentioning "Goddam Eskimos", purportedly used to describe English protesters in kayaks attempting to interfere with the mooring of his ship in Holy Loch. I also cannot see Laning using the phrase to describe anyone standing on the shoreline."

2. 11th September 2018

"US Polaris SSBNs along with their Tender and a floating dock arrived in Scotland in 1961, they provided nuclear deterrence cover for the UK from 1961 to 1968 when the Royal Navy's own Polaris SSBNs were operational based out of HMS Neptune at Faslane. The last submarine tender to be based in Scotland, the USS Simon Lake, left Holy Loch in November 1991, ahead of the base closing in June 1992. Their departure was due to a number of factors none of which had anything to do with CND or any demonstration of any kind. The US Navy arrived in Scotland with the full agreement of the UK Government and they departed of their own volition when a base such as Holy Loch was no longer required.

No "gaffin' of nyaffs"; no rammy's; no tears; in fact naebody sortit oot at a' - by the so-called Glesga Eskimos or anyone else for that matter. Personally I think that you are going to inordinate lengths to prove the Eskimo's remark to be no more than an Urban Myth
".


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Jim McLean
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 04:35 AM

The difference between Observer and myself is that I approached the subject of the alleged Eskimo remark by Captain Lanning with an OPEN mind.
The effect of Ding Dong Dollar and the many demonstrations against Polaris has been long lasting and the majority of Scottish people are opposed to nuclear weapons and will eventually see them being removed from the Clyde.

Unfortunately, due to a personal tragedy, I will be withdrawing from Mudcat for the foreseeable future but I wish all with whom I have crossed swords the very best of luck.
I want to thank Mudcat for all the fun and knowledge I have experienced for many years now.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Oct 20 - 04:53 AM

Oh Jim I am sorry to hear this. Don't lose touch.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Annewiseowl
Date: 09 Nov 20 - 07:51 PM

I found this really interesting book while looking for lyrics.
The term 'Eskimo Republic' is a Glaswegian term for a better nation as the Eskimos in the fifties were supposed never to have gone to war and had no kings, queens or politicians.The anti-nuclear protesters called themselves 'The Eskimo Nation'

https://gallus-publishing.webs.com/Eskimo%20Republic%20book%20text%20at%2024th%20September%20A5.pdf

It's a free download
Anne


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 10 Nov 20 - 05:09 PM

Reading GUESTobserver's remarks again I have this vision of him/her being tied up in sack rolling around having a huge punch-up argument with him/herself!!
Not sure what he/she is trying to prove....?

(Actually - I am convinced it is a 'him')


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 11 Nov 20 - 03:05 AM

Any particular reason why me being a "him" or a "her" would make a difference GM? As far as the discussion goes, what is the more important. what is being said, or who is saying it? I am definitely a person that prefers truth, fact and honesty over lies, total misrepresentation and myth.

As to Mr. McLean's comment:

"The difference between Observer and myself is that I approached the subject of the alleged Eskimo remark by Captain Lanning with an OPEN mind."

Nothing could be further from the truth. It was stated that the group of songwriters called themselves "The Glesca Eskimos" because of a remark supposedly made by Laning reported in the Scottish tabloids. There have been a number of threads on this and McLean's approach has throughout been solely to find proof of Laning making that remark - NOT - whether in fact he had made the remark at all [There is a difference between the two].

My reasons for doubting that Laning ever made any such remark are founded on what I know about the times and the incident involved, the UK and US military and the UK tabloid press. To have Laning making such a remark at a Press Conference is pure caricature stereotype as seen from one particular view point. Counter to how they are commonly depicted on film and on TV, senior officers tend not to use obscenities and they most certainly do not blaspheme. They are also specifically trained to be very guarded with their speech, in terms of what they say and how they say it, in the presence of members of the media as on those occasions they are never speaking for themselves but as a representative of their service and country.


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Subject: RE: Scottish Political Song Eskimo Republic
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Nov 20 - 09:36 AM

In the US, especially Alaska, the term Eskimo is seen as derogatory now.

Anybody else remember Cheaper By The Dozen?


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