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Origins: FSU Seminoles Indian War Chant

GUEST 18 Jul 15 - 11:29 PM
GUEST 18 Jul 15 - 11:31 PM
Joe Offer 19 Jul 15 - 02:27 AM
MGM·Lion 19 Jul 15 - 03:27 AM
GUEST 19 Jul 15 - 09:22 AM
GUEST,# 19 Jul 15 - 12:31 PM
GUEST 19 Jul 15 - 02:08 PM
Joe Offer 19 Jul 15 - 11:31 PM
GUEST,# 19 Jul 15 - 11:51 PM
GUEST 20 Jul 15 - 12:30 AM
GUEST 20 Jul 15 - 06:52 PM
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Subject: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 15 - 11:29 PM

I hear this song played a lot during football games, but I know I've heard this in early westerns, such as Stagecoach. I was wondering if anyone could trace its origins, like who was the first composer to actually write it. I'm thinking it's probably Max Steiner, but I could be wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1r9FAH0MHA

Anyone have any thoughts?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jul 15 - 11:31 PM

Btw, I apologize if the word "Indian" Is offensive, but there seems to be no other title


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:27 AM

I was thinking Elmer Bernstein, but I may be wrong, too.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 03:27 AM

If it did in fact occur in Stagecoach, the music was written by Richard Hageman.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 09:22 AM

Huh, wow I didn't know that Richard hageman wrote the music. I always thought it was Max Steiner. I may have been wrong, I don't think the full Indian war Chant was even used in Stagecoach, here's the score on youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk_4cx_kXOk

I believe it comes in around 4 minutes, but it isn't really the same thing as the Atlanta Braves and Florida Seminoles use. But I swear I've heard it in some other westerns though..now this is going to drive my crazy!


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST,#
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 12:31 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Carbonara


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:08 PM

http://stupidquestionarchives.blogspot.co.uk/2008/03/warpath-theme-music.html

This article gives the definitive answer. It's from a 1960's Uni. Brass band piece called "massacre" which itself is a pastiche of earlier John Ford type pastiches - which again seem to be taken from earlier Buffalo Bill Outdoor Shows.

I don't have the time to transcribe the details of the article.. but if someone has.

Apparently there is a 'chopping' gesture that many people find offensive that has gone along with the music.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 11:31 PM

Apparently, it's the official "war chant" of the Florida State University Seminoles, approved by the Seminole Tribe: Here's what Wikipedia says about the FSU "Seminole War Chant":
    The Seminole War Chant was first used in a 1984 game against Auburn. The chant was started in FSU's Marching Band - The Marching Chiefs, originally by members of the percussion section. The melody is based on the 1960s cheer, massacre. The chant has also become associated with the tomahawk chop.

    The War Chant would be adopted by the Atlanta Braves when FSU football alumnus Deion Sanders joined the team, and has been used ever since. It is also used by the NFL team the Kansas City Chiefs, Mexican soccer club Santos Laguna and the Turkish soccer club Galatasaray S.K.
By the way, Florida State University is located in the state capital, Tallahassee (University of Florida is in Gainesville).

Still, I wonder who composed the "Seminole War Chant." Despite some doubts I have about its Political Correctness (even with Seminole approval), I think it's a great piece of music.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: Indian War Chant
From: GUEST,#
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 11:51 PM

http://www.tomahawknation.com/2012/5/1/2991946/the-real-story-of-how-the-seminole-war-chant-was-started

????


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Subject: RE: Origins: FSU Seminoles Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 12:30 AM

The entry above is a tall tale....

"Massacre" was reckoned to have been written by a brass band arranger of the F.S.U in the 1960''s, the late Charlie Carter. The source of information is given as Patrick Dunnegan director of F.S.U.s Marching band.

There are definite urban myths here...It's cultural heritage seems to be based more on Hollywood/John Ford pre-cursors and if taken back - to Buffalo Bill's Wild West Shows which had accompanying music (see earlier entry).


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Subject: RE: Origins: FSU Seminoles Indian War Chant
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 06:52 PM

I was aware of the Seminole story, I just thought it seemed borrowed from some other themes. It really does sound like a recycled theme from a John Ford film.


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