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BS: Sufferin Succotash

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GUEST,CS 19 Jul 15 - 01:37 PM
Charmion 19 Jul 15 - 06:32 PM
Acme 19 Jul 15 - 07:49 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 19 Jul 15 - 10:38 PM
Acme 20 Jul 15 - 12:04 AM
Ebbie 20 Jul 15 - 02:33 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 20 Jul 15 - 04:37 AM
Mr Red 20 Jul 15 - 05:03 AM
GUEST,Frank 20 Jul 15 - 05:30 AM
GUEST,CS 20 Jul 15 - 07:21 AM
maeve 20 Jul 15 - 07:48 AM
Bee-dubya-ell 20 Jul 15 - 10:07 AM
Mrrzy 20 Jul 15 - 10:56 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 15 - 11:48 AM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 15 - 12:00 PM
GUEST,HiLo 20 Jul 15 - 12:04 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 15 - 01:38 PM
GUEST,HiLo 20 Jul 15 - 02:04 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 15 - 02:20 PM
Steve Shaw 20 Jul 15 - 08:59 PM
Joe Offer 21 Jul 15 - 03:05 AM
Steve Shaw 21 Jul 15 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,CS 21 Jul 15 - 12:05 PM
nickp 22 Jul 15 - 04:50 AM
Steve Shaw 22 Jul 15 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Bill D 22 Jul 15 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,CS 23 Jul 15 - 11:55 AM
Steve Shaw 23 Jul 15 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Stim 23 Jul 15 - 06:55 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jul 15 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Stim 23 Jul 15 - 09:49 PM
Steve Shaw 23 Jul 15 - 09:56 PM

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Subject: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 01:37 PM

I'm going to make some succotash, that broad bean and sweetcorn dish.

Any tips from those familiar with US food traditions?

What should I serve with it? I think fish is often served. What about new potatoes or rice?


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 06:32 PM

My grandmother served succotash with Sunday dinner, which usually featured roast beef, often accompanied also by Yorkshire pudding and mushroom gravy. Grandma was born in England and grew up in Montreal; succotash came into our family foodways from her friend Gilbert Monture, a Mohawk from the Oswekin reserve in southern Ontario.

In fact, succotash is so bland that pretty well anything handy is pretty favourite with it. I would serve it with turkey or game -- moose or venison.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Acme
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 07:49 PM

It is a foodway that never made it onto this American table: Lima beans are awful, as far as I'm concerned. :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 10:38 PM

Here's how I make succotash:

Start with two or three slices of bacon, chopped up. If you use pork bacon, sauté it until the fat is liquefied. If you use turkey bacon, sauté it in whatever cooking oil you like. Add a chopped onion, chopped bell pepper, and as much chopped garlic as you can stand. Continue sautéing in the oil or rendered bacon fat until the onions are transparent. Add about a pound each of whole kernel corn and green baby lima beans (fresh if you can get them, frozen if you can't, canned only if you're desperate) and enough water to cover everything. Add black and cayenne pepper and cook until beans are tender but not mushy. Serve over rice if you like.

The bacon is mainly for seasoning. If you're a hard-core carnivore and can't live without more meat in the dish, add some diced precooked chicken or sausage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Acme
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 12:04 AM

That sounds pretty good - if you would just leave out the Lima beans!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:33 AM

Me too. I don't like the mealy insides of them. Just like I don't like over-sized canned sweet peas. The insides have turned into something else altogether. Love tiny ones. Oh, and I don't like garbanzo beans. For the same reason. (Except in hot jambalaya and the like.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 04:37 AM

Turkey Bacon? What on earth is Turkey Bacon. Bacon is pork meat that has been cured using copious amounts of salt, either dry cured or in the form of a brine. What are you American like eh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Mr Red
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 05:03 AM

If you thought US misnomers were bizarre - try NZ ones.

Mutton Ham (mother of sheep, cured like ham)
and sheep sausage aka sausage (think Cumberland sausage - short links). In fact all NZ sausage tastes the same, pork sausages (where found) have that NZ taste - they have to or they couldn't sell them there.

In fact eating pork is definitely infra-dig and unpatriotic. Long pig went out of favour some time after the Pake-Ha arrived. (Europeans)


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 05:30 AM

Thank you for solving my curiosity.
In the old Tom and Jerry Cartoons Sylvester the Cat was always proclaiming "Thuffering Thuccotash" in his best lisp. I didn't know what he was talking about, but now I do. Thank you.
BUT
Turkey Bacon? another bloody mystery.!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 07:21 AM

Thankyou Bee-Dubya. I'll probably sub some smoked paprika for the bacon. Garlic, black pepper and cayenne should ensure it's not bland.

BTW, for those wondering what UK cooks can use to make this US dish I'll be using 'broad beans' which (for those of you from the US) look like this: broad beans

As they seem to be the best alternative to green 'lima beans' (what we call 'butter beans' in the UK, but we get them dried or dried and reconstituted instead of green) that we have.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: maeve
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 07:48 AM

We have broad beans here too, CS! Limas are lovely when young and tender, Acme.

We grew up with succotash made from caramelized onions, summer squash, fresh corn cut from the cob, and whatever beans were handy. Nothing bland about it. No reason one couldn't add preferred spices, fat, peppers, meat, etc if desired, but I'd walk a long way to eat the succotash I grew up with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 10:07 AM

All lima beans are not created equal. First, there's a huge difference between fresh (or fresh frozen) and dried. Dried beans of any type are going to get mushy. Then, there are vast differences between the different varieties of limas. Larger varieties. like Fordhook, need longer cooking time which can make them mushy. If you use fresh or frozen green baby limas and they turn mushy, you're overcooking them.

By the way, in case your mother forgot to tell you, onions, garlic, and sweet peppers should always be sautéed before using in boiled dishes. Simply tossing them raw into boiling water is an abomination. Talk about yucky texture, I'd rather eat mushy limas any day than onion that's been boiled without sautéing first. And sautéed onions and garlic make the kitchen smell like there's serious cooking going on, even if you're only making something simple.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Mrrzy
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 10:56 AM

I can't find it but there is a hysterical Cul De Sac strip where Petey, the picky eater, is explaining to Alice, the main character/little sister, that succotash was invented by the Native Americans to trick children into thinking that lima beans were food, or something.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 11:48 AM

Don't sauté onions and garlic together. One or the other. Garlic with a pinch of chilli if needed and some chopped carrot and celery, always in olive oil. Yum. That's the base of many a great Italian and Spanish dish. Some diced bacon or pancetta can add a lot as well, depending on the dish. Soffritto!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 12:00 PM

As for mushy beans, yum again. Sauté some finely-chopped garlic in olive oil for a few minutes. Add a very small amount of finely-chopped rosemary and throw in your mushy beans. Add salt and pepper and a dash of wine vinegar. Stir and break up into a rough-textured paste. Allow to cool slightly and spread on hot, garlicky, oily crostini. Drizzle with a bit of your finest extra virgin oil and voila. Delicious! A nice dry Italian white, preferably a Sicilian Fiano, to wash it down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 12:04 PM

Why not onions and garlic together, I am curious !


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 01:38 PM

They clash. No self-respecting Italian cook ever puts them together. I have rows with Mrs Steve because she thinks I should be putting garlic in the lasagne. Wrong!


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:04 PM

I know what you mean about the Lasagne, I don't put both in either. But I do put both in Pizza and Pasta sauce..and a few wee anchovies.
Are there recipes where you do use both ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 02:20 PM

I make free with anchovies and capers as well as the chilli flakes. They go especially well in whore's pasta along with black olives and home-made tomato sauce. I can't think of any recipes offhand that use both onion and garlic, though I'm often forced to give the bol or lasagne a whiff of garlic, completely against my will. ;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 08:59 PM

I just remembered that I make a version of Gennaro Contaldo's Italian lamb stew that uses both onion and garlic, though the garlic is not sautéed with the onion in the soffritto but bashed and added later. Dunno whether that's significant in preventing the two from fighting each other. It's a fantastic stew, actually, though the lamb shoulder needs longer cooking than he seems to suggest. I don't add the peas until the final heating before serving, though, as with any stew or soup, it tastes much better made the day before. There's a YouTube of Gennaro in Malta making this stew.

Gino D'Acampo is militantly opposed to using onion and garlic together. He's often been accused of blandness and over-simple recipes (as well as burglary), but his dishes never fail for me. Some other cooks are less evangelical about it, Delia and my hero Elizabeth David among them. It could be that the combination is anathema in some parts of Italy, not so much in others. I never use onions in pasta sauces as they tend to form a disagreeable sludge with the tomatoes. I prefer less sauce and more intensity, with good bronze die pasta that holds the sauce nicely. None of that slippery penne for me, though I can knock up a good arrabbiata with rigatoni, either with salmon or chicken and plenty of chilli. On the other hand I wouldn't dream of putting garlic anywhere near a risotto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jul 15 - 03:05 AM

The recipe from Bee-Dubya sounds great. Whenever I had succotash as a kid, I got it from a can or a frozen package - and it was always bland. Bee-Dubya's recipe sounds like a way to make those bland vegetables taste terrific!
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Jul 15 - 05:18 AM

I find that canned cannellini, red kidney, borlotti and butter beans keep their in-the-can texture when added to a dish, even if cooked for a good while after adding. It could be the calcium chloride firming agent that's added. Same with canned chick peas. If I want a particular texture and the canned beans don't have it, I'd rather not use them. I made an Italian bean stew last week which included canned borlotti beans. They were pretty firm in the can, and they stayed that way even after cooking and reheating the next day. If you soak your own dried beans you can then cook them to your required texture. Cheaper too. But I nearly always use canned. The Napolina brand is reliable enough. And I always used canned tomatoes for tomato sauces, maybe with a bit of sundried tomato paste added. You can't buy proper ripe tomatoes in the UK. All our canned ones come from Italy. I was thinking of trying to make some gazpacho and salmorejo with canned tomatoes. My salmorejo made with "ripe" English toms last summer didn't have anything like the flavour of the nectar I'd enjoyed in Andalucia and which I was trying to emulate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 21 Jul 15 - 12:05 PM

For the succotash I'll be using home grown green broad beans. But I love beans in all forms. I usually cook from dried then freeze whatever I don't use in batches approximating the amount you will get in a tin.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: nickp
Date: 22 Jul 15 - 04:50 AM

Soya beans are reasonably available in the UK (our Sainsbury's has them in the frozen section) and are a suitable replacement for Lima.
Love Broad beans though


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jul 15 - 08:26 AM

I've always called Lima beans butter beans. I've always been very partial to them ever since my mum served them up in her chippie in the 50s as an alternative to mushy peas (which I also love and frequently make). I've tried soya beans but find them somewhat worthy. A bit dull. I love broad beans done any way you like, including raw. In fact, just before coming in to type this, I scoffed two or three pods' worth from the garden.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,Bill D
Date: 22 Jul 15 - 09:11 AM

I like both lima beans & butter beans, but not for the same purpose. Small 'lima' beans are firm, and I just added some to a 3-bean (4 actually) salad... along with cucumber, red & green peppers and cut green beans, garbanzos and red beans. (add some sugar & a cup of red wine vinegar.) Large ones are soft, and are eaten 'straight' as a side dish. I like them with meat loaf.
In recent years, we get Glory-seasoned beans, which are very well done and not over-seasoned.

Many years ago, I worked at Stokley-Van Camp's cannery, and often had an 8 oz. can of soft Butter Beans...right out of the can.


" There are two common varieties of lima bean — the baby lima bean and the Fordhook — but don't confuse them as the same bean in different stages of development. The Fordhook is larger, lighter in color, and has a stronger taste than the baby lima, but it is not a grown-up baby — it is a separate variety.

In the south of the United States, Fordhook lima beans are commonly called butter beans. Indeed, one of our readers says many southerners wouldn't recognize the name lima bean. These larger beans are also known as butter beans in Europe, or Madagascar beans, since most lima beans sold in Europe are grown in Madagascar (or Mauritius). "


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 11:55 AM

I've seen recipes for succotash that use edamame beans, which are young green soya beans that you can get from the freezer in 'posh' supermarkets like Waitrose. I think they could work out nicely. Baby broad beans are not too tricky to find, but they're not always that 'baby' (much like so called 'baby potatoes').


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 05:34 PM

I've yet to find a supermarket frozen broad bean that isn't tough-skinned and starchy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 06:55 PM

TJ's has "Soycutash", which is a combination of soybeans, corn, and red peppers, and is a great solution to Steve Shaw's problem. .


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 08:17 PM

I have no problem that I can discern. I usually have enough of my own home-grown broad beans. Soycutash sounds dreadful, and I don't know who TJ's are, though I do know that there isn't a branch near Bude.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 09:49 PM

Trader Joe's. Soycutash is actually pretty good, but you have to like edamame. I kind of guess you don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Sufferin Succotash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 09:56 PM

Yes I do. I like everything except apple sauce, which is the vomit of Satan.


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