BS: Coleslaw

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 04:23 PM

Sounds bizarre to me also, Steve, but game for trying it due to being startled and pleased with recipes that sounded atrocious to me based on my own food assumptions and prejudices in the past. All I need is some one to invite over for supper, as I am not inclined to put much effort into preparing food for me, myself and I.

Still haven't found the courage to go sort through my disorganized recipes for that gorganzola slaw recipe from my former sis-in-law. Being a good guest I volunteered to help make it, thinking, 'ugh, it sounds awful.' Was terrific and I should have known it would be, given what I knew about my sis-in-law's culinary skills and tastes. Have found some similar recipes on-line, most of which call for apples, which I don't recall being included, but may have been. Otherwise, gorganzola, walnuts, golden raisins, and a mayo or yoghurt based dressing all ring a bell. The cabbage was chopped or shredded, not grated.

Now trying to think of fresh salad recipes other than coleslaw that call for grated vs shredded or chopped veggies. Shredded, yes. Grated, no, unless a little grated citrus or ginger is included. I know hashbrowns often call for grated potatoes, but that is a cooked recipe, and I don't like hashbrowns. Nor am I fond of potato pancakes or latkes. When younger and poorer would make them to get rid of leftovers if nothing else. One does what one needs to do. But have never much liked them. Probably have a lousy gall bladder that makes me averse to fried foods.

I remember spending many a Sunday afternoon at a friend's house down the street after high school. Her Mom was in many ways a great country cook, and made dinner rolls from scratch every Sunday. I do recall, however, that when they made coleslaw, they used a blender. Water in the blender to cover the wedges of cabbage. Awful stuff. Way too fine, plus there is no way one is gonna get all the water squeezed or drained out of the cabbage before suppertime and time to add the dressing.

Don't know about that 70's thing regarding grated veggies. I'm kind of a waste not want not person. Not averse to peeling and shredding, vs grating, broccoli stems or other trimmed parts of veggies into a fresh salad.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,BrendanB
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 03:55 PM

As an unrepentant lover of coleslaw I will say that the important thing when making it is to ensure that there is plenty of dressing. Some coleslaws are served with a niggardly amount of dressing WHICH IS SO WRONG. Creamy, tangy coleslaw is fab. I always add chilli - but then again, I add chilli to bacon and egg.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 03:31 PM

I just looked up 'slaw' in my unabridged dictionary. 'Slaw' comes from Danish 'sla,' which is a contraction for 'salade,'. I guess we can all guess what salade is.

Cole, of course, is cabbage. Everytime I meet a little boy with now-trendy name of Cole I wonder what his parents were thinking.

I decided not to use mayo in my slaw anymore. Now I make Healthfuler Cole Slaw. This is a batch for a small family.

Dressing:
1/3 cup Smart Balance veg oil
1/6 cup lime or lemon juice (just fill the 1/3 measure halfway)
1/2 tsp real mayo (keeps oil and juice from separating)
black pepper to taste
1/4 tsp sugar (optional, in case the juice is too tart)
1/2 tsp tarragon if using lime juice

Cabbage: One half of a small cabbage, cored, then sliced or shredded. Despite what you get in restaurants, there is no law that says the cabbage has to be reduced to a near-liquid state.

Variable ingredients: 1 tbsp poppy seeds, some shredded carrot, cherry tomatoes left whole. Don't cut the tomatoes, or the batch will turn a funny pinkish green, and people won't want to eat it.

Whisk the dressing ingredients in a big bowl. Stir in the cabbage and any optional ingredients. Transfer, tightly packed and covered, to a smaller bowl for storage.

This is pretty popular stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 03:27 PM

I have tried many things and will always have a go even at the most unlikely culinary concoctions, but I find the notion of pineapple in a coleslaw to be unutterably bizarre. I will not be trying it any time soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: maeve
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 02:43 PM

Janie, my very Southern mother and father preferred the cabbage sliced very thin by hand by my patient father! One can sparingly use a bit of sour cream or thick yoghurt in combination with mayonaise, honey and vinegar to achieve the desired balance of sweet/sour/creamy/crisp.

I have enjoyed very thin-cut, crisp and sweet (not sweetened) cabbage in slaw with drained crushed pineapple mixed in with the vinegar and mayonnaise. I was surprised it was so good.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 02:19 PM

In my very humble opinion, grated veg of any description is an abomination. All very seventies. I also recall with horror "salads" that included segments of tinned mandarin orange and, worst of all, "salads" that harboured bits of salted peanuts. Eek! Though I still believe that the carefully-prepared prawn cocktail (with avocado) is a thing to die for.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 01:22 PM

Today, in the USA, slaw is a term often applied any salad in which the veggies are shredded or grated - whether cabbage in included or not. As far as I am concerned, if the cabbage isn't grated, it isn't coleslaw, it is a cabbage salad.

I do agree with you, Bill D. that not all coleslaw is equal, and that fits with Reinhard's Cole's Law. There really is some awful coleslaw out there. All the more reason to make your own!

I think coleslaw to which onions and/or green peppers have been added is an abomination. YUCK! Also don't much care for carrots in coleslaw. I'm a purist, I suppose.

While I use mayo, I grew up on Miracle Whip. (There is a family story involving internecine warfare around that which I won't tell here other than to say that Mom lost the first battles, during the time when I was small, but eventually won the war - and Miracle Whip was sent packing about the time I started college.)

I've used a lot of different slaw and cabbage salad recipes, and enjoy some vinegreitte slaws, but grew up with creamy so that will always have a special appeal.

I use mayo, but early experiences and tastes do imprint for life, and there are times when I gaze longingly at a small jar of Miracle Whip on the grocery shelf when coleslaw is on the menu.

I use mayo, honey (occasionally sugar) vinegar and salt. No pepper. I use honey most often because it has some food value. However, there is a real trade off. I like a balance of sweetness to tartness, but also like a creamy dressing that adheres. Impossible to get both when using honey. If creamy enough, will be too sweet because one can't add enough vinegar without making the dressing too thin. If sweet and sour are well-balanced, the dressing will be runny and the slaw soggy. When company is coming, or for hotdogs or barbeque I use sugar.

I tend to use less dressing in the slaw than what one is likely to be served in a restaurant or diner. The worst coleslaws utilize cabbage simply to make the dressing servable with a fork rather than a spoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 01:12 PM

I too am a great slaw fan. Even plain cabbage with any mustard is good.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 01:03 PM

I generally love anything I didn't eat growing up because my dad hated it. Thus, Brussels sprouts, corned beef hash, and cabbage cooked or raw are in my list of favorite foods. Coriander, I like--cilantro, I don't. Must be it gets more civilized when it goes to seed. I can detect cilantro at about 1 part per gazillion. I can eat it if it's unavoidable. I could probably do a shot of dish soap afterwards to get the taste out of my mouth.

Cabbage, though, I love. Raw cabbage, steamed cabbage, cabbage ears, fried cabbage, boiled cabbage, boiled cabbage that's frozen and dipped in chocolate with a few bacon sprinkles on top... that was supposed to be funny, but it sounds a little good.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 12:56 PM

When we had coleslaw when I was a kid, we always had it as a side dish, as a salad, rather than mixed with or on other things.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 12:52 PM

Coleslaw??? Hideous stuff like most raw salad vegetables. Far better to eat a plate of meat.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 12:40 PM

Origin of the term coleslaw, copied from culinarylore.com.

"The term coleslaw came from the Dutch term koolsla, meaning cabbage salad. The kool part is the Dutch word for cabbage and the sla part is a Dutch abbreviation of the word salade. In the late seventeenth and early eighteenth centuries, Dutch settlers flooded into New York, so much so that the city was originally called New Amsterdam. They brought with them their recipe for chilled cabbage salad, which today is a mixture of the shredded vegetable with mayonnaise, salad dressing, sour cream or buttermilk with vinegar, sugar and other seasonings added."

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 12:28 PM

I love sauerkraut, and cabbage strips added to a beef veggie bean soup is a good addition. Raw cabbage tends to fall into the same conversation as do you love or dislike cilantro (coriander). For most people it's a simple love or hate answer. Probably has to do with the genetics of what you can taste or what tastes good to you. And whether or not you want to overcome that gene. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 12:26 PM

Tsk, tsk, Bill D. Fortunately, you have sufficient redeeming qualities that I can forgive you this one failure.:>)

I posted this in another thread, but more pertinent here, methinks.


The Slaw Line

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 11:17 AM

I have never MADE coleslaw. I will eat it occasionally after tasting a tiny bite to see if it is palatable (there are HUGE variations)


But after growing up in Kansas and eating really good BBQ sandwiches, I came to Wash DC and found my 1st BBQ sandwich smothered in slaw! ON the sandwich! Upon gently mentioning this abominable situation to the counterman, (as opposed to decorating his wall with it), I was informed that "Oh, that's the way people expect it here."
Humpfff! IF I want to add 'something' to my BBQ- either to enhance a good one or to disguise a bad one- *I* will take charge of that process... and I can't imagine ever using slaw for that purpose.

From that 1st startling view into the byways of localized cuisine atrocities, I have carefully inquired before ordering as to how they prepare BBQ... and thankfully, there are some places that do NOT assume you want slaw glopped all over your sandwich.... they will provide a little cup of it on the side.. if requested.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,gillymorg4
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 11:11 AM

Back when I was ate meat my favorite sandwich was pulled or shredded pork with coleslaw lumped on top and spritzed with barbecue sauce and a close second was a kosher hot dog from Katz Market in Rockville, MD topped with coleslaw and no other condiments.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 10:59 AM

Janie, Olddude once started a thread about hot dogs, and I had to have hot dogs. Spaw got me going with muffaletta sandwiches and who knows what else. Rick Fielding: milkshakes.
Thank you--coleslaw is a lot healthier. (I'm thinking the magical cruciferons negate the fat in the mayo.)

If you make it and it sits in your fridge for a day, the salt leeches the juice/water out and you wind up with a slightly limp cabbage with a runny sauce. I like to think of that as American kimchi... possibly American kimchi summer soup.

For the record, I just cut long, thin strips of it with a knife.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 10:31 AM

Well I love cooked cabbage, but there are rules. Cabbage is very unforgiving if even slightly overcooked or over-salted. I think the best cabbage is home-grown and my favourite is called Minicole, which has tight, green heads which keep for weeks. Failing that, the pointy Sweetheart cabbages, if organic, are very nice. I'm not a big fan of steaming, but it's good for cabbage. Or stir-frying in thin strips with bacon. Yum. And Cavolo Nero, torn up into shreds and thrown into ribollita for the last ten minutes. Very healthy!

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Reinhard
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 10:09 AM

Cole's Law: When dining out, either one person will eat everyone's cole slaw, or nobody eats the cole slaw at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 09:23 AM

Years ago a friend was visiting from North Dakota. We went out for lunch and ordered barbeque sandwiches with slaw. He was absolutely astounded when the sandwich came with slaw on it. The waitress and I were absolutely astounded that he thought the slaw would come as a side dish.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 05:06 AM

I'm with Steve Shaw on this one. Don't like cabbage in a shape or form, cooked or not (a throwback to school dinners when it was meant to be cooked but wasn't!)
And finding part of a slicing blade in a tub from S@@@sbury's once didn't help!

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 03:53 AM

Tried to post this yesterday but 'waiting for mudcat' 'waiting for ping chartbeat' alternated on and on and I gave up.

Happened on this thread the day after I'd had some more coleslaw that tasted of Ammonia. I can't eat it like that. Not in a fast food place, I don't go there, but now and then the coleslaw that comes with a meal tastes of Ammonia, sometimes of nothing else. Wondered why?

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Andrez
Date: 09 Aug 15 - 02:35 AM

Not too sure if coleslaw is eco-friendly or not. I note at times an excess of methane like exhaust fumes after consuming the same said 'slaw'. This phenomenon appears to occur regardless of whether it is standard western style 'slaw or also with our preferred variant- Vietnamese coleslaw with the added chilli?

Cheers folks,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 09:38 PM

Let the cole wars begin. A worthy Mudcat battle.

7 generations of Appalachian women can not be wrong. (Talking coleslaw as a side dish as opposed to on a properly dressed hotdog.)

Definitely shredded on a box shredder, using the coarse grater side, as shown here.

Love my mandolin, but not for coleslaw. Texture is everything. I will probably yield to variations in dressings, but texture? Never!

Depending on the size of the cabbage, cut in quarters or 6ths to grate. Pick out the chunks of outer leaves that break off. (Yum, snacking while fixing supper.)

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 08:59 PM

A little historical context here, at least regarding the middle third of the east coast of the USA.

Cabbage is a cool weather crop and stores well. Spring grown cabbage is not as flavorful and also much more prone to be attacked by cabbage moths, etc. Fall grown cabbage is tastier, and also less likely to be beset by pests. Fall cabbage could be kept for long periods in root cellars. Cabbage is cheap in the grocery store year round, and especially in fall and winter. The one and only fresh and raw veggie available during a good part of winter for many folks on the East Coast who by necessity, grew their own.

I confess I have an excellent modern, high-end recipe for chopped coleslaw from my Los Angeles sis-in-law which I will try to dig out and share from my disorganized baggies of recipe notes. Involves chopped instead of shredded cabbage, gorganzola broken into small chunks, walnuts (or maybe pecans), etc. Delicious, but while it is called coleslaw, I think of it as a cabbage salad and not a coleslaw recipe.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 08:42 PM

It's just that every vegetable ingredient in coleslaw tastes ten times better when cooked.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 07:01 PM

It all sounds good to me! I like to try familiar foods made in different ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 06:21 PM

What you got against rabbits, Steve S?

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 06:12 PM

If you served me coleslaw I'd politely nibble a little bit. But why anyone would really want to eat a load of raw, overly crunchy, tasteless, worthy, sour and sloppy rabbit food - well, that's totally beyond me. 💩

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 05:31 PM

There's chopped cabbage salad then there's coleslaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 04:26 PM

Well, I dunno. Mom's cole slaw compared favorably with other's cole slaw that I've eaten, and the double-bladed "mezzaluna" chopper was made specifically for cole slaw, herbs, and such....

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 04:09 PM

Grated......NEVER!, that is fast food restaurant crap. The only way to make coleslaw is sliced thinly on a mandolin and no, not the instrument, wisenheimers, this kind of .... mandolin.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 03:37 PM

No, no! Oh, no, Don! Cole slaw lacks flavor unless the cabbage is grated, not chopped. Chopping does not release the juices.

Sadly, I have sometimes even seen the cabbage sliced. 'Tis a pity, indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 03:22 PM

Back in the mists of antiquity, when we were living in Southern California, and I was maybe 7 to 9 years old, and my Mom was making cole slaw, my job was chopping up the cabbage into itty-bitty bits. I did it with an implement called a "mezzaluna" (half-moon) chopper that Mom had in the kitchen (watch out for your fingers!!). It consisted of two curved blades about five or six inches long, parallel, and about an inch apart, with a wooden handle.

Mom would cut a head of cabbage into, maybe eighths, then I would take it from there and whomp, whomp, whomp it all into little, tiny bits. Mom would check from time to time and tell me if it needed more, or when it was fine enough. Then, she'd take it and mix it with other ingredients, of which I knew little.

Cole slaw and/or potato salad usually meant we were going on a picnic.

I'm not exactly a gourmet chef. Given TV-dinners and a microwave, I can cobble together a fairly tasty meal, and I can make a peanut butter and grape jelly sandwich that is to die for.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 01:52 PM

...but more than that, because I add the sesame oil to the mayo already on the slaw. The usual slaw is frequently put on barbecue sandwiches as a sort of topping. I'm not sure how that got started.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 01:11 PM

Janie, the sesame (toasted) oil is just a little for flavor. It's used in Asian cooking. Think cabbage filling for spring rolls turned into slaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 12:22 PM

I don't eat cole slaw very often and only at home. I use Cabbage, carrots and spring onions, sometimes with homemade mayo and sometimes with sesame oil (delish) and a wee bit of white wine vinegar. I have never heard of having it with stew, but it is great with fish and chips,or a ploughmans lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 10:00 AM

I never heard of adding oil to a mayo based slaw dressing. Interesting!

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 09:48 AM

Just so you know....
The Great West Virginia Slaw War of 1921

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 09:26 AM

Use real mayo only, salt & pepper, and try a little sesame oil. Or a lot of it. I LOVE sesame oil in coleslaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 08:47 AM

gnu, gnu, gnu....(shaking head sadly)

Where I grew up there were 3 winter dishes no self respecting Mom on a tight budget would serve without sides of cornbread and coleslaw. Pinto beans, beef stew, and chili.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: gnu
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 07:52 AM

Slaw with beef stew? Never thought of that. Now I am trying not to.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: ranger1
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 07:21 AM

I'm with Acme on this one.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: MMario
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 05:54 AM

Janie - I agree with you. It is shocking that the MudCat has neglected this this vital piece of Americana. Yes, I know that it originated elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 03:53 AM

Never have in the house, but I make good use of it at the salad bar of our local Harvester. I say never when I mean rarely; Morrisons do a low-fat 'slaw which goes very well indeed with one of their super big fresh pizzas*, but its an uncommon treat these days alas.

* Is there a pizza thread too I wonder? Here in the UK we have a weird take on the pizza that falls somewhere between the nastiness of Pizza Hut and the relative sanity of Pizza Express. The Morrisons Pizza is very English, though I see ASDA are now pushing something they're calling calzone (try saying that in a Sean Connery 007 voice). For the best calzone, go to ASK. Wells is good, but York, I think, on the whole, is better.

Subject: RE: BS: Coleslaw
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 03:03 AM

;-)

Can I substitute fries or a salad for the slaw?

Subject: BS: Disturbing lack of Coleslaw Debate
From: Janie
Date: 08 Aug 15 - 01:10 AM

I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you!

I searched Mudcat using the terms 'Coleslaw', 'Cole Slaw' and 'Slaw,' and found no thread entirely devoted to such an important topic as is coleslaw.

No great debates about using a blender vs a grater or how much vinegar to sugar. No discussions on the merits of Mayo vs Miracle Whip, or adding carrots, onion, green pepper, even - gasp - gorganzola, not to mention sage observations regarding vinaigrette vs creamy dressings. And what about yoghurt based dressings?

Most shocking of all is the absence of any discussion regarding coleslaw recipes for hotdogs vs a side dish when serving beef stew or chili with cornbread.