School me in English licencing law...

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 04:19 PM

Noreen, the question about local authority licensing was answered in the third post. Nevertheless PRS is also an issue, although it is primarily the responsibility of the venue, rather than musicians and session organisers. However if you want a session to run successfully you won't want to get the publican into trouble, so it helps to understand the rules. As I pointed out, it may not be as simple as assuming that traditional means non-copyright.

PPL and PRS licence different things. PRS manages the composer's copyright. PPL manages the musicians' and record producer's copyrights. To complicate things further, the record producer pays a fee to a third organisation, MCPS, for the composer's royalties when their work is recorded. It's all a bit of a minefield! At least in the UK the organisations work together, in the US they appear to have several different organisations competing with each other.

Fortunately from a musician's point of view, it's not usually your problem.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 12:46 PM

I would just like to add that it is PPL and not PRS which licences and distributes royalties for the playing of recorded music.

In both instances PRS and PPL it is the venue which has to have a licence.

Is PRS a separate issue? they collect royalties for the performance of copyright material.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: Noreen
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 11:40 AM

As above, I repeat:
PRS IS A TOTALLY SEPARATE ISSUE!!!

The query is NOT about PRS or copyright, but about local authority rules and regulations which have changed a lot in the last few years.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 10:37 AM

In practice you don't have to worry about a thing. Ask a pub if they're willing to host a session. If they say yes, they say yes. If they say no, they say no. End of story.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 01 Sep 15 - 07:55 AM

The difficulty is guaranteeing that the all music to be performed is in fact non-copyright. Many songs and tunes which are thought, or assumed, to be "traditional" are in fact copyright. Many more genuine "anon" have copyrights registered for arrangements, and the PRS won't know the difference - if in doubt they will put the onus on you to prove that the version played is non-copyright.

If this session comes out of a class you teach you may have some control over the repertoire, but where participants are able to choose their own material you will not know in advance what they are going to play.

Responsibility for getting a PRS licence is the venue's, not the musicians' or the session organiser's. The pub may very well have one already, but make sure it covers live music and not just recorded music. If the landlord properly understands his liabilities he will probably not want to rely on your assurances that it will all be non-copyright and will want the correct PRS licence to cover himself. Whether he expects you to pay for it or bears the cost himself is for negotiation!

The current PRS tariff can be found here:

PRS concert venue tariffs

It looks to me as if 3.1.3 is the appropriate one, £9.90 per session. Or you could try 3.1.7 at £86.89 for a year, although whether a regular session can be said to be spontaneous is open to question. Not a fortune, and if the pub won't bear the cost out of extra drinks sales then putting a hat around should cover it.

The link Gargoyle provided is a US example and for the matter to go to litigation I suspect there is more to the story than the report reveals.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 09:48 AM

Dear anonymous GUEST....

Please read the blue colored link in my post.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

expect the hubris to come up and bite you in the apostrophe....until it landed, I never expected so many, desperate, hungry lawyers, needing to, scrape so deep for table scraps.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 09:38 AM

Try to ask the artiste ; Wild Flying Dove and I asked Richard Thompson if he minded us doing his songs ,and he was most obliging, although not to the extent of selling 5,000 copies of any CD we made !!

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,PeterC
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 08:46 AM

You only need a PRS licence for copyright music - confirmed by this quote from their web site:
"In the unlikely event that all the music you play is out of copyright or is not controlled by PRS for Music, you do not need a PRS for Music licence."
So if you yourself are the composer, or you ONLY play music which is out of copyright - ie in UK 70 years after the death of the composer, you do not need a PRS licence.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 08:14 AM

I wouldn't be too sure about not needing a PRS licence Calum. A read through the attachment MAY answer your question if you have a week or two to spare.

https://www.prsformusic.com/Pages/default.aspx

Personally I'd go for it until someone tried to stop me.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 31 Aug 15 - 07:54 AM

Many thanks, anon guest, that's what I needed to know. And of course we shall be playing strictly traditional tunes with nothing that the PRS could possibly be interested in *g*

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 12:44 PM

@Gargoyle - what you "believe" has fuck all to do with the law.

Small venues are now allowed to have live unamplified music up to 11pm without any special licensing unless explicitly excluded in the licence. I think the capacity limit is 200 (no idea if that is for the room or the whole venue).

PRS is a totally separate issue.

Subject: RE: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:50 AM

I believe music belongs to all. Like sand in an ape's fist...the tighter it is squeezed...the less there is.

A friend, about five years ago, was hit with suit against the restaurant, by Fox, for Sinatra songs ($pecifically, Fly Me to the . Moon).

Now a different friend is hit again.... different place, different songs.

Music Mafia

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

May the . Richard . Bridges of the music world, snaggle, and tear, and choke on their own intestinal congestion.

Subject: School me in English licencing law...
From: GUEST,Calum
Date: 30 Aug 15 - 11:05 AM

I am just about to start hitting up some local pubs to see if any would be willing to host a session that is growing out of a group class I teach. Before going in, I feel I ought to know what the current state of the law is regarding licences, live music, and sessions. I remember a great hoohah some years ago but as a Scot paid little attention other than sending my MP a stiff pre-written note. Now I'm down here and ignorant. Help!