BS: Bugs!!!!

Subject: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 07:32 PM

My wife and I attended a very upscale wedding yesterday. Beautiful, outdoor ceremony. At the end of the ceremony, they released butterflies. How beautiful.. Then the little three year old ring bearer guy yells 'bugs' and runs out stomping on them Lol his parents moved faster than the wind. I could not hold my laughing

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 07:37 PM

Right, so they had a bunch of butterflies in captivity then released them en masse into an alien environment. How nice. Have you heard of confetti?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: ranger1
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 07:40 PM

Confetti isn't very environmentally friendly, either. As a matter of fact, it's worse than releasing butterflies.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 08:15 PM

Releasing butterflies is OK. Keeping them captive so as to release them might be something else.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 08:16 PM

Rubbish. You can,and should, get confetti made of biodegradable materials such as rice paper. There is no excuse for keeping hundreds of butterflies captive in stressful conditions, then releasing them to their inevitable doom in an alien environment. You do actually know that butterflies are living, feeling organisms, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 08:17 PM

That was not to you, Kevin.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 09:46 PM

Wrong the Park Service here said the Monarch butterflies are far fewer than the past. They been releasing them all over. They will hang around for a couple more weeks then head to mexico on winter migration. So it is encouraged

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 09:58 PM

You can get the Monarch butterflies from the department of environmental conservation. They are boxed and small and release them near wildflowers.. Especially wild golden rods. They have been declining recently and want to build them back up right before they migration

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 10:34 PM

Not goldenrod. Milkweed. I've seen some around here this year, and think they were hatched here, but I figure there are breeding programs.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 20 Sep 15 - 10:39 PM

What is funny about a little kid stomping on butterflies?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:50 AM

Butterflies don't grow once they're actual butterflies. You don't get small ones that grow into large ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 04:44 AM

Steve...all butterflies emerge fully grown into an "alien environment."

Why don't you just leave people alone when they want to have a nice chat...

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 04:56 AM

Well, of all people, you defending aliens? Wonders never cease. And I'm a bit with Bert. I can't really have a nice chat about captive butterflies being released then stamped on.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:36 AM

Nasty little brat.
Apart from flies, children should be taught to respect wildlife.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:38 AM

Agreed, Fear I don't share your amusement, Dan.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:45 AM

That's right Keith, I remember little shits who used to catch wild ones and pull their wings off....wonder if there are still kids like that around? .....or adults.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:50 AM

Although I doubt that I would have found it humorous. the almost rabid everyone should bow to my will attitude of several folk makes me wonder who died and made them god.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:06 AM

Why do I bother, enjoy your life

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:09 AM

Spaw would have laughed, but I forget he is gone. You had to be there

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:13 AM

I haven't spotted anything especially rabid (though the stomping kid might have been a bit frenetic, I suppose). It's pretty reasonable to be concerned about the wellbeing of wild animals, I should say.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:20 AM

With all due respect Al, I am glad I was not there! I see nothing funny at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:49 AM

If you really cared about the wellbeing of animals Steve, you would not be salivating so much over the lamb and pork you are always telling us about.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:01 AM

A three year old mistakes butterflies for bugs and runs out stomping on them so his parents moved faster than the wind. Seeing his frantic parents gives Dan a chuckle. Dan posts in on Mudcat. "Adults" go apeshit and have a public spat.

Yeah... it's Mudcat BS fer sure eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: bubblyrat
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:29 AM

To the best of my knowledge, once any girl has kissed Bronco Lane twice,she will be dreaming of shoes and rice ( not butterflies ,although she may have them in her tummy ).

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:03 AM

Really do not wish to fall out with you over the matter, Dan; but would urge that Spaw was one to whose perversely provocative SOH one had to accustom oneself. Honestly can't say I think him the most effective or convincing deceased authority to whom to look for support for somewhat questionable amusement at what many would regard as an unfortunate occurrence.

Best

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:04 AM

Dan, I think some folks here just don't know you very well. Maybe they don't recall you writing about the hawk that got your chipmunk. I don't know if you recall the time that doves were released at an opening ceremony for the olympics. The poor birds were flying into hot lights and I think one ended up feeding the olympic flame. Where do ya go after smacking yer forehead and saying, "Jesus Christ, who thought of this?"

As for the self-righteous people who've posted, just tell them to fuck off. I know you weren't laughing about the butterflies being stomped. Keep well, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:10 AM

Big butterflies or small butterflies they are all monarchs and being released all over western ny, take it up with the DEC as I don't work for them. The little boy was 3 years old, his parents handled it quickly. It is not about the butterflies but how little kids react. This place is not worth my time anymore

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:22 AM

"If you really cared about the wellbeing of animals Steve, you would not be salivating so much over the lamb and pork you are always telling us about."

If I salivated over them no-one else would eat them. Anyway, what an egregiously inane comment from you. I care about the peregrines around here and am wary of telling people where they are, yet peregrine falcons eat songbirds. I'm proud of the grass snakes that nest in my garden every year, yet they eat many of my frogs and toads. Start an animal welfare/food thread, why don't you, and prepare to be demolished.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: maeve
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:24 AM

Dan- This place is full of folks who do know you and your humor/humour. Don't throw the good brew out with the unpalatable. :)

Anyone in the Northeast US need Common milkweed seeds? We raise it here for the Monarchs. Send me a PM.
Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:38 AM

I've been saving the seed pods from milkweed for a few years now. I find places to plant them hither and yon. Just sent some to my daughter in western Canada. I have no idea how the monarchs find them, but find them they do. Three years back we saw no monarchs at all. Two years back only one. Last year I think three. This year three so far--assuming they are each different butterflies or not viceroys. It's a thrill to see bees on a daily basis. Gives some hope for this planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:42 AM

To redress the balance in favour of small chldren:

A local primary school put some frogspawn in a tank and watched the tadpoles hatch. At the end of spring term they were still not frogs so the class went down the local pond to set them free.

The ducks crowded round and ate them.

If your girlfriend was the teacher who told the story...

...would you smile?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:53 AM

I just googled Monarch butterfly wedding ethics and discovered, unsurprisingly, that people who know a damn sight more about butterflies than we do have a number of concerns about the very lucrative practice of ordering live butterflies for wedding release.

Sometimes the odd Monarch gets blown across the ocean to Cornwall. A few years ago, we got a photo of one in a garden in Bude and our regional daily paper printed it. The poor thing was in good condition, but doomed as Asclepias doesn't grow round here. This is the right time of year to look out for them.

Monarch populations in the US are nosediving, most likely due to farming practices. Releasing them randomly at weddings does nothing to help. It's nothing to feel good about.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:57 AM

I would have found it funny to see the "upscale" parents mortified with embarrassment by the appalling behaviour of their precious sprog who no doubt looked absolutely angelic in his ring bearer outfit .

That is what is funny, not the bad behaviour, right olddude?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Megan L
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 10:25 AM

Dan sorry I was not disrespecting you I had meant to add 'I was not there, sometimes It is an expression or gesture that creates the humour in a situation that can sometimes not be translated to the written word.' As for the not finding it humourus there isn't much I find funny just now.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Bert.
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:37 PM

The LOL came immediately after the comment about the kids stomping the butterflies. The comment about the parents does not indicate that they were upscale.

If fact if there child didn't know that butterflies were not bugs by the age of three then the probability is that they were somewhat ignorant themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:01 PM

Those were my thoughts too.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:21 PM

Are moths bugs? cos everybody round here kills them if they show their proboscises in their houses.

Apparently their grubs eat clothing, sheets, curtains, carpets.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 01:27 PM

Get yourself educated.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Jeri
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:11 PM

Most people don't know what is and isn't a bug.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:14 PM

Ohmygawd; a child who, at three years of age, in a moment of excitement, fails to maintain the attitude of an adult environmentalist. Someone please euthanize that horrible person to improve the gene pool!

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:25 PM

Hmmmm does New York still allow ticker-tape welcomes?

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:32 PM

3:14 was frogprince, on a laptop in Naxos

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: gnu
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 06:26 PM

"The LOL came immediately after the comment about the kids stomping the butterflies."

You gotta be shittin me??? You are analyzing syntax and progression and didn't even take into account punctuation? Yeah, Spaw would tell you to fuck off you broke dick fuck!!! As for "... can't say I think him [Spaw] the most effective or convincing deceased authority to whom to look for support for somewhat questionable amusement..."? Spaw would shit on you too. Yer a good guy and a very intelligent guy but you crossed a line. It bodes poorly to speak ill of those passed... especially a man who you could never measure up to.

If, in fact, their child didn't know that butterflies were not bugs by the age of three, then the probability is that they hadn't had the chance to teach the child because so many ignorant assholes spray toxic shit on their manicured properties that there were no flutterbies to teach the child about. How dare anyone assume any different. I decided not to mow my lawn again tonight as there are bumblybees all over the pretty yellow flowers that my neighbour calls weeds.

Same shit, different day at Mudcat. Too many fuckin bad weeds posting toxic shit. It's just a story about a three year old kid and horrified parents scrambling to save butterflies. No more.

Any more crap is just trolling. Have fun with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:08 PM

If they were scrabbling to save butterflies they should have been railing against the daft buggers who were releasing them to their inevitable doom in the first place. How bloody tasteless, thinking that letting butterflies out of a box is somehow going to enhance your wedding. One more thing. I like bugs. Shield bugs are very pretty and I let them walk all over me. Capsid bugs eat my spud leaves but they don't do much harm and they're amusing to watch. Aphids are a bit of a pain but they feed the blue tits and ladybirds. I love to see leaf hoppers going ping. All those hot nights I spend in the Mediterranean summers with the whirring of cicadas. Couldn't live without 'em. All bugs. Look up bugs. Biologically, the term has quite a specific meaning, applying to one group of insects. Spiders, flies, beetles and dragonflies are not bugs. Google Hemiptera. Them's the true bugs. And stop saying bug as an excuse for stomping on a wild animal. It took three billion years of evolution to make that insect you're condoning the squashing of. If you really have to kill something, apologise to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:16 PM

I thought "bug" was just a slang term for any sort of insect?

What's the difference between a moth (bad) and butterfly(good)

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:20 PM

Educate yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:37 PM

What a piece of shit you are shaw, pay me a visit Please and we can discuss manners. And spaw was one of my best friends. He would nothhave pissed on your head if your hair was on fire you troll

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:40 PM

I won't waste any more time here so delete my account, don't need to talk to ass wipes

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: NOMADMan
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:47 PM

For the record, adult Monarch butterflies feed on nectar from flowers, principally goldenrod if they can find it, but other flowers will do. They will also feed on juices from fruits.

Milkweed is used earlier in the life cycle. The female Monarch lays eggs exclusively on milkweed. Monarch caterpillars will eat nothing else. The eggs hatch into caterpillars which feed on the milkweed, molting several times, going through about 5 stages of growth before forming chrysalises from which the adults emerge a week or so later.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,#
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:49 PM

Great link about bugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:50 PM

Or it you like Shaw, I can visit you and we can discuss it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:52 PM

There isn't an adult moth or butterfly on the planet that can do either you or your property the slightest harm. Some of their caterpillars can be a pain. Processionary moth caterpillars in plague years can seriously damage forest trees. Large white butterfly caterpillars are a bloody nuisance on my brassicas. I've grown calabrese before now that's been "more meat than veg". But when we grow large areas of monoculture crops or plantations we are just Inviting trouble. With plenty of biodiversity nothing becomes any more than a bit of pain for a short time. Nature hardly ever produces monocultures and rarely has plague years of anything if left to itself. We should learn from that. I love butterflies and moths, in fact I've just bought some lovely field guides and I'm educating myself. That moth you're calling bad took three billion years to evolve into what it is. Until we came along there was nothing bad about it. I wonder what it thinks of you, coming along in your size tens ready to stamp on it.

      
"I would not enter in my list of friends,
Who needlessly sets foot upon a worm.
An inadvertent step may crush the snail
That crawls at evening in the public path,
But he has the humanity, forewarned,
Will tread aside, and let the reptile live." [William Cowper]

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 07:57 PM

"What a piece of shit you are shaw, pay me a visit Please and we can discuss manners."

Ah, Dan, master of unintended irony... :-)

"And spaw was one of my best friends"

Good for you. I've never mentioned him!

"Or it you like Shaw, I can visit you and we can discuss it ..."

Well, if you like, but I'd worry about the wellbeing of the flight crew...

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 08:58 PM

By the way, thanks to NOMADMan for clearing up a misconception I was harbouring about adult Monarch food sources. Maybe the next one I see will live a bit longer than I was expecting!

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:48 PM

Hey, olddude, I'd PM you a friendly encouraging message but that won't be possible if you've deleted your account, which seems likely since you've begun posting as GUEST. I hope you stop by this thread and see that this!

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 09:58 PM

Look, chaps, a little boy of three probably once saw someone stomp on a cockroach, a dirty, disease-carrying, freeloading pest.

He saw a butterfly, and not realizing the difference, thought that the the manly, impressive thing to do was to stomp on it. (Even though the flower girl was an older woman at age 7, he thought she was awful pretty and wanted to be her Knight in Shining Oxfords.)

Fortunately his parents were right there to teach him the difference.

There is no reason to get vituperative over this little story of life and learning.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Bert
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 10:49 PM

There is no reason to get vituperative over this little story of life and learning...

It is not being vituperative to not find it funny.

Calling all creepy crawlies 'bugs' is almost as ignorant as calling all quadrupeds 'dogs', but that is America for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: sciencegeek
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 12:10 AM

yikes... is there something in the atmosphere causing this uproar?

I've been lamenting the decline of monarchs and keep an eye on local fields looking to see if milkweed is present, since that seems to be the critical factor... no milkweed, no caterpillars, no next generation. While best to release the butterflies near known patches of milkweed, I see no real problem with other releases... in their remaining 2 to 6 weeks of life, they just might find some on their own.

As for little boys stomping bugs... that's been going on forever and they usually outgrow it, especially if given good guidance on respecting life. I had to protect ant hills from my kid brother who later became to biggest softy you could imagine. I probably would be laughing at the frantic parents myself, while making sure as many critters made it safely on their way.

oh, bubbly... thanks for the mention of Bronco Lane... I used to love that show... well, all westerns for that matter since they had horses... and sang along with all the theme songs... lol

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: maeve
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:03 AM

Regarding nectar sources for adult Monarchs:
I agree that Solidago (goldenrod) is one nectar source. There are many varieties of which at least one (Stiff goldenrod)is a better food sources for adult Monarchs than others. Other plants that, in our experience, draw local and traveling monarchs for nectar in far greater numbers than our many species of goldenrod, include: Liatris, Agastache foeniculum, Symphyotrichum novae-angliae, Alliums, Eutrochium, Echinacea, Cosmos, and various others.

This year we raised several hundred Asclepias plants for Monarch egg-laying and larval food, as well as for fiber, pod silk, and seed, using several locally native varieties. There are many factors involved in the decrease in Monarch numbers, so attention to pesticide discontinuation, healthy habitat, informed release programs, and food sources for adults and larvae are only parts of the puzzle, but parts within our individual grasp.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 10:31 AM

My apologies to the good people I
KKnow on this forum for the outburst. I forget that is has been taken over by the haters and will refrain from posting again. You all know how to contact me. Sadly mudcat has turned into a place that I don't like to visit again. Be well

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:15 AM

Well done Steve.
What an asset you are to our little forum.
It gets more little every time you post your bile.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:40 AM

You've been very silly twice in twenty minutes in two different threads now, Keith. Go and have a little lie down.

Subject: RE: BS: Bugs!!!!
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:46 AM

I cannot believe what I am reading on this thread.

Olddude posts an observational message about something that he has seen - Butterflies being released at a wedding.

Releasing these butterflies, it seems, is part of a US approved progam to increase the population of Monarch butterflies.
Whether some self-appointed expert over here agrees or not, the US believe that this will help.

Next we have a very young person running after these butterflies and trying to stamp on them. His parents respond very quickly and stop him and, hopefully, will go on to explain to him why it was wrong and prevent it happening again.

For this Olddude is subjected to a tirade of outrage to the point where he feels that it's probably easier to give up on Mudcat and delete his account.

I don't know Olddude, but I've read lots of his postings and he seems like a nice guy,and there has to be some way of stopping the people who seem to spend their lives spoiling for a fight and needling anyone that posts.

Long live free speech and disagreement. But bullying and nastiness don't belong here.

IMHO K/van