BS: Piggate

Subject: BS: Piggate
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 11:27 AM

Piggate!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:14 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z08mq55Vryg

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:16 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSEE1quPpxE

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 12:22 PM

What a shame the bloody pig didn't have just one final sudden reflex clench of teeth in it...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:03 PM

Not the least bit surprising, and nothing shameful about what is reported - but it does remind us of the hypocrisy involved in keeping up the harassment of others who behave in precisely the same way.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:04 PM

This will make an interesting PMQ on Wednesday. Any other labour leader would find making a mention in some form irresistible but I bet Corbyn doesn't. Then the press will be full of him not mentioning it.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,DMcG
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:06 PM

Sorry, that's me above

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 02:13 PM

what is even worse it that he took part in burning a 50 pound note in front of a homeless person

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 03:39 PM

I'm sure they will find some close encounters for Jeremy Corbyn.

It sells. And is hard to disprove. Though there is reference to police being involved at Eton. That is on record, freedom of information and all that can be invoked, where is it? Sexual abuse is obviously "so yesterday". The abusers left victims still struggling, this is not a victim issue. Get a sense of proportion. And bring forth the proof.

Cameroon is a target. Fair or not depends where you stand. I stand for the politics of the individual. It is not "OK just because it sells".

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 04:01 PM

who was suggesting that because it sells it is ok.
no, i am suggesting that if this is all true he should resign.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 04:47 PM

Actually all that's actually suggested here is that he smoked a few joints while at university.

I'd suspect the Mail might have thought it could be politically astute to show that they do scandal stories on Tories as well. In terms of this kind of thing they certainly pulled their punches, once you get past the headline.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:09 PM

The first major breakthrough of David Cameron's trade visit to China has been announced – a deal to send the country £45million worth of pig semen.
he was just collecting pig semen being a patriot an all

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:35 PM

lets hope his explanation are not more porkies

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Sep 15 - 05:43 PM

Bloody funny, Dick, gotta give it to you! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 04:06 AM

who was suggesting that because it sells it is ok.

we are discussing it, as if it is all provable fact, ergo we are endorsing it. how near to "OK" do you make that?

When Jeremy of Corbyn get some flack for his former years, I bet (now before the fact) that any discussion will much sooner include "but did he do it".

The newspapers have to sell themselves. But then is the Daily Mail a newspaper.


Or a comic?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: TheSnail
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 04:26 AM

Ed Miliband has just heard the news - http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/article9409370.ece/binary/original/v3-miliband-selwynv2.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 05:22 AM

Heheh. Almost time for a caption competition there...


"Jaysus! Where did you say this pig come from...?"

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 05:38 AM

mr red, are you saying that the newspapers are telling porkies?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 05:43 AM

A very good discussion here -

http://theleveller.org/2015/09/british-really-laughing/

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 06:01 AM

Cheers of that, Richard. Great cutting-through articulation of the way things really are but what the elite would rather we didn't see.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 06:10 AM

Cheers FOR that, Richard. *oink*

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:22 AM

Nobody detests Cameron more than I do. However, I also hate witch hunts and rumour mongers. In this case the pig story is completely unsubstantiated and should never have been included in the book. Equally, while the Bullingdon club are a bunch of insufferable toffs who would have been better for having been put down at birth, so little is known of their rituals that I don't know whether any of the other allegations have any substance to them.

For me this is a typical case of the media diverting everyone's attention from the real damage that Cameron and Co are doing; local authority cuts, benefit sanctions, the bedroom tax, zero hours contricks, and the present set of vicious completely unwarranted attacks on trade union freedom.

For the matter of that, the story about BC members burning £50 notes in front of starving tramps has been going the rounds for several years now. The problem is that I have never come across the slightest scrap of evidence to suggest that it has ever really happened.

By all means let's attack Cameron and his cronies and let's sweep the whole sordid bunch out of office. But we'll do that by attacking the iniquities and shortcomings of current government policy, not by raking up unsubstantiated rumours about things which might or might not have happened 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:32 AM

Why have these allegations, together with accusations of Cameron's incompetence over Libya and Syria, only surfaced now? What's really going on?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:33 AM

Very sensible, mature posting, Fred.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:36 AM

"Very sensible, mature posting, Fred."

Yeah, but Cameron still stuck his dick in a dead pig's mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:55 AM

Stu - Date: 22 Sep 15 - 07:36 AM

"Very sensible, mature posting, Fred."

Yeah, but Cameron still stuck his dick in a dead pig's mouth.

Fred's comments were sensible, factual and mature Stu - Now where is your proof that the incident ever actually took place at all? My guess is that you do not have anything other than your own bias and desire to hope and wish that this baseless accusation is true.

Rather ironic to note that you seem to take the word of the Conservative Party's greatest financial backer as gospel though.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:05 AM

"Rather ironic to note that you seem to take the word of the Conservative Party's greatest financial backer as gospel" though so why would he make it up unless he is part of a conspiracy to replace Cameron with someone else, if he ismaking it up he risks being sued, why is cameron not suing?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:42 AM

Whether or not it's true, the Internet has decided for the time being that British Prime Minister David Cameron probably put his private parts into the mouth of a dead pig when he was at Oxford. The allegations have been made by extremely well-connected Establishment figures, former Conservative Party Deputy Chairman Lord (Michael) Ashcroft, and former Sunday Times political editor Isabel Oakeshott, and the story is published in the Daily Mail, which makes this the highest possible tier of character assassination in British politics.

Ashcroft's goal is, according to the Mail, "revenge". In the years leading up to Cameron taking office in 2010, the tax-dodging billionaire had donated over £8 million to the Conservative Party, bailing them out of debt after their disastrous election defeat in 2005. He had worked as Treasurer and later Deputy Chairman of the party, helping to manage them back to an electable public image under Cameron. Yet Ashcroft had expected that he would be given high office in exchange for this, and Cameron didn't pay up when the time came. It now appears Ashcroft has spent the last five years compiling his new book, Call Me Dave, in which the pig story and other damning allegations about the Prime Minister are made.

Outsiders to the British cultural landscape are focusing on the central detail that a leader of a G8 country screwed a dead pig, because it's hilarious. But the howling laughter of the British themselves goes deeper than just schadenfreude at a man doing something disgusting and getting caught – this is about class.

When Cameron was at Oxford, he was a member of several secret societies of rich young men. The most famous of these is the Bullingdon Club, after which Yale's infamous Skull and Bones is fashioned. The aim of the Bullingdon Club is ostensibly to dress up fancy with the chaps, get blind drunk at an expensive restaurant or private dining room, and trash the place – because they can afford to pay for the damages without doing a day's work. Among their known initiation rites, they are said to have to burn a £50 bill in front of a homeless person.

And that leads to the other side of what the Bullingdon Club (and societies like it) is about: upper class right wing team-building. The friendships and alliances forged in the secret drinking societies of powerful rich kids go on to define their careers, and these young men all have access to the highest rungs of British society. Three prominent members of Cameron's cabinet were members, whilst many others went on to run the banks that crashed the economy in 2008 and the media empires that protect them.

Burning money in front of a homeless person isn't just intended to be a nasty prank, it serves to train a Bullingdon boy's senses, to make other humans seem somehow less. That David Cameron and his allies George Osborne and Boris Johnson have all done this, and that they have all presided over a sharp spike in homelessness in London and throughout the UK, are not coincidental. The MP who provided Lord Ashcroft with the details of the pig story attended one meeting of the expensive club but left in disgust because 'it was all about despising poor people'.

And thus part of the reason why the British are so ready to believe Lord Ashcroft's story, aside from the fact that Ashcroft is a top-tier Establishment figure in a country with absurdly plaintiff-friendly libel laws, is that Cameron's ideological training is already well understood by the public. There is nothing likable about such a background, particularly when the ruling class it produces is waging a war on the poor and disabled that would have made Thatcher blush.

So to then hear that the guy at the top of that pyramid was peer-pressured into putting his dick in a pig's mouth or risk not being included in a club of nasty, entitled people, it creates a much more satisfying reaction than mere laughter. A figure of terror becomes a figure of ridicule, a reversal like the boggarts in Harry Potter, who impersonate your worst nightmares until you can cast a spell on them that makes them look absurd.

The pig scandal that now has the world laughing at Cameron wasn't from the Bullingdon Club but the Piers Gaverston, less well-known (until this week), but with a reputation for bizarre sexual rituals and initiation rites. Where the Bullingdon boys built their fraternity around shared values of hating the poor, the Piers Gaverston was about sexual humiliation and the creation of shared secrets. Its structural function is as an agreement of mutually assured destruction between the rulers of tomorrow – I know your secret and you know mine, so let's stay on the same side, yeah?

This forms one of the core mechanics of the British ruling class – why reveal someone's dirty little secret when you can keep schtum about it and control them? This forms the basis of the parliamentary whipping system, where the Chief Whip of each respective party is expected to have an arsenal of dirt locked away in their office so that when the time comes, their party leader can 'whip' rebellious backbenchers with threats that sometimes include leaking that story about you that you really don't want to be leaked.

In this elite culture not all corruption is financial. When it comes to the top of British politics, sound character and a clean record do not make you an asset. You'll have a hard time joining unless they can confirm that you are scum – and can make sure that the public don't know about it.

An interesting example of this is the role Margaret Thatcher played in the elevation of certain members of her government and its allies. Recent allegations in the growing parliamentary child abuse scandal arose that Thatcher "turned a blind eye" to pedophiles that she promoted, including the provision of knighthoods to known serial child abusers Jimmy Savile and Cyril Smith. Her own Home Secretary, the now deceased Leon Brittan, is still being investigated.

In each case, Thatcher is now thought to have been warned by security services about the deviancy of these men, but is alleged to have studiously ignored it. When it comes to secret-keeping and elite power, it is not out of the question that in knowing they were child abusers, Thatcher would have had political leverage over these allies of hers, and so promoting them would have helped her strengthen her own power while in office.

The parliamentary child abuse scandal is horrifying enough on its own terms, but beyond that it has also further undermined public trust in Westminster, already increasingly despised for being out-of-touch and unaccountable after financial crises and expenses scandals turn in a unsatisfyingly low number of scalps for voters to collect.

Where this relates to Cameron's little mishap is that the public are already exhausted to the point of raw antipathy with the way Westminster power works, as a marketplace of secrets among unaccountable elites. Our politicians might be screwing children, but the ones who could help us to find out about it are making sure that story is blocked. When that kind of behavior is the norm, the British public can't really be blamed for believing that their PM put his knob into a pig to join a secret society. This, too, is probably normal to these people.

Something grievously misunderstood by many members of the British ruling class is that they believe hatred of the 'Bullingdon boy' archetype comes from mere jealousy. The vast majority of the privately educated men who run the country really think that everyone wants to be more like them, and that therefore any criticism of elites comes first and foremost from envy.

This is in large part because one of the core beliefs instilled into the 7% of pupils who attend Britain's divisive independent schools is that of meritocracy. This despite the fact that not only can most people not afford to send their children to these fee-paying schools, the ones who do attend them end up getting an easy ladder up to high society. They make up a third of MPs, nearly half of all newspaper columnists, a majority of Lords, diplomats and senior civil servants, and over 70% of senior judges. It is common knowledge that the old boys' network looks after its own.

This doesn't stop them from telling the public that the system is fair. Alumnus of Eton and former Bullingdon boy Boris Johnson said in a speech to the Centre for Policy Studies that the people with the highest IQ have the best jobs because they're smart. Not only was this not even remotely true, Boris then 'failed' a live IQ test on air, yet persisted in the notion that kids who go to independent schools do well because they're brilliant. He has served variously as a cabinet minister, Mayor of London, newspaper columnist, and magazine editor, enjoying each job with the support of powerful people with whom he went to school.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne (also of the Bullingdon Club), was criticized by charities representing poor and disabled people whose economic and household security was ruined by his reforms. He dismissed them as "anti-business" and gave tax breaks to millionaires (half of whom, incidentally, went to independent schools) in the name of "fairness".

And David Cameron himself often likes to talk about the supposed existence of meritocracy in the United Kingdom. He, too, went to Eton before joining the Bullingdon Club and the Piers Gaverston. He is one of the most vocal Conservatives when it comes to championing the ideology of meritocracy, telling poor people and ethnic minorities that their lack of social climbing is because they lack "aspiration", and that 'free' markets (that is, unregulated financial bonanzas, by his allegiances) "can make you a better person".

Separate from what he says, however, his government has significantly increased inequality and decreased social mobility, making it even harder for people outside of his privileged background to fulfill the meritocratic values he regularly trumpets.

The wound of that hypocrisy was already festering before Lord Ashcroft punished him this week for breaking the rules of the ritual: that you will obey the people who made you, or you will be humiliated. This wasn't, as some have said, young men being silly. Not if the secrets being kept are designed by powerful men to keep other powerful men under control. That kind of arrangement is the antithesis of democracy.

And it is also the antithesis to the meritocracy they proclaim. Not just because it's rich boys getting an easy ride to the top – we already knew that – but because David Cameron's nasty little scandal speaks to a suspicion many people already have: that in British society, you don't get to become Prime Minister because you're talented or because you work hard. You don't even get there just because you're rich. You get there by traumatizing the homeless and skull-fucking a dead pig, and that ritual gives you power because you have demonstrated utter, pathetic submission to your fellow oligarchs.

That is why we're laughing.





Image: The Commonwealth

Correction: The article originally said that George Osborne went to Eton, when he actually attended St. Pauls. This has been removed from the piece.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:56 AM

"Now where is your proof that the incident ever actually took place at all?"

I don't think the onus is on me to disprove it, and the £50 note-burning is well-known an has not been denied. Defend the necrophiliac porcine skull-shagger all you want, he'd be expect a certain type of prole that knows their place rally to his cause.

Whilst the thrust of Fred's post is correct, it essentially misses the real point of this whole story: the elite who run the country live in a very different world to us and think they are genuinely superior to us. Cam probably did know about Ashcroft's non-com status (though that story is old hat now and no-one believed Cam anyway) and now Ashcroft has taken the hump because he didn't get a seat at the toff's top table we get a peek inside their world.

The whole purpose of trashing restaurants, initiation rituals and clubs like the Bullingdon and the Gaviscon one are designed to create an elite that, despite a lack of genuine talent, insight or intelligence can gain power in a system of self-support and secrets kept for favours.

As for taking Ashcroft's word for anything, the boy is desperate and out of the loop. He might be lying, but then so might be the establishment when supporting the likes of Cameron. You pays your money . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 08:59 AM

That's right, Stu. Come on, good people there's a multi-million quid spin machine that keeps the big knobs looking respectable. Let's enjoy a rare moment that shows them to be the jumped-up, petty-minded, disreputable, sneering elitists that, deep down, we all know they are, and revel in the tacky spectacle of them bitterly turning on each other. Sheer joy in a bloody miserable world.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:20 AM

As I understand it the allegations have not been made by the journalist and Ashcroft as much as they were made by an un-named source and the two have simply retold this story without knowing if it is true or not. The journalist said several times on the news last night that she did not actually know if the story was true.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 10:07 AM

strange stuff....

hard to imagine the conversation that preceded the incident

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 10:29 AM

But those of us who aren't amongst the feeble-minded who elected the Bullingdoneers already know exactly what kind of pieces of shit they are, and all Ashcroft's 'revelations' serve to achieve is to divert people's attention from the real dirty stuff they're up to in government right now.

Never take your eye of the ball, no matter what your opponent does to try to distract you - the golden rule in sport, just as golden in the world of politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 10:31 AM

Never take your eye OFF the ball...
Bloody iPad......

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:09 AM

I find Isabel Oakeshott to be a bit creepy but bloody clever with it. She's been on Question Time in the past. On Newsnight she was coming the Pontius Pilate disingenuous shrugging bit about the sources. Basically, she appeared to have been briefed very well to be careful what she said. The amazing thing was how much slack the other chap cut her. It was an odd interview, more about nobody getting sued than shedding much light.

Point taken, Backwoodsman, but it's a hard life, so let's enjoy a bit of posh-boy wriggling for just a little bit longer...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:34 AM

Bear in mind that the UK has famously plaintiff-friendly libel laws and that Cameron is rich enough to do Ashcroft a lot of pain in litigation unless Ashcroft has a rock solid defence - and "I was told that" is NOT a rock-solid defence.

Also bear in mind that it is quite important to know who might be blackmailing a prime minister and what they might be demanding.

But is the big story here the fact that Ashcroft evidently felt entitled to a major government post because of his donations? That is a nasty bit of corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 11:53 AM

"Point taken, Backwoodsman, but it's a hard life, so let's enjoy a bit of posh-boy wriggling for just a little bit longer..."

Aaaawww...alright then, Steve, you've persuaded me! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 01:15 PM

cameron and the pig....great name for a folk duo!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,#
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 01:19 PM

Great idea for a joke, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 01:44 PM

I agree with Fred, we should be better than to use unsubstantiated rumour.

Same as on this forum, stick to the bloody issues.

Jim and Steve have already closed two excellent threads by their illiberal, intolerant behaviour, let's have no more of it, personal abuse has decreased dramatically since the demise of Team Musket, lets make it history.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 02:14 PM

Team akeef??   :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 02:44 PM

"Jim and Steve have already closed two excellent threads "
Nobody knows who closed any threads - or why.
Everybody who contributed to an argument - including yourself, is as likely a suspect - but it's comments like the one you have just made that are quite likely to close the next one..
Do not make accusations you cannot substantiate - your little team is quite fond of doing that - and do not make comments about people who are not involved in the thread you make them on - it's bad manners to talk about people behind their backs - did no-one ever teach you that?.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 02:57 PM

well they can't interview the pig...

i don't think its the kind of stuff anyone could just make up. it has the ring of truth.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 03:02 PM

Was it a suckling pig?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 03:17 PM

"demise of team musket" ? what's the news there then, and who are they now ?
I seem to have missed that.

[Bloody BT cutting my internet and phone off for nearly 2 weeks]

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:15 PM

I picked up a free copy of the Daily Mail with me Waitrose card this morning (don't shout - the choice was the Mail, the Times or the Guardian. Well I already get the Guardian). It was worth it to see the next extract from the book of vengeance, which dealt in detail with the goings-on of the Chipping Norton set. I tell you, you couldn't make it up. Well, they probably did, but great for a belly laugh anyway. The paper's in the septic tank already, lowering its tone, don't worry. Thought I'd put it straight in there and cut out the middle man. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Sep 15 - 09:22 PM

Happened to me last year, two bloody weeks, after lightning struck the exchange up the road. And there's no 3G within 20 miles of my house! Spent several sessions sitting in my car outside a BT hotspot in Bude getting my emails. Even signed up for free internet access on my iPhone at Tesco, Asda and M&S in desperation. All three of them now know the colour of my knickers and my bloody shoe size, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:55 AM

At least one of The Muskets is alive and well, I encountered him in the Real World last Wednesday. He asked to be remembered to everyone and sends his love....

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 07:32 AM

personal abuse has decreased dramatically since the demise of Team Musket

There is another reason for that as well you know, ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:36 AM

I've not been keeping up with the mudcat soap opera;

due to forced absence from the net for several days [thanks BT you bunch of...]
and not following certain lengthy threads after I got back here.

So have the musks disbanded and voluntarily resigned from mudcat.
or are they still floating around under new known individual IDs ?


Well, mudcat is the only trashy soap I'm addicted to,
despite the low budget and lack of train crashes, pub fires, and cliff hanger murders.

Though, following the tory party revelations of deviance and debauchery is kinda soap,
but maybe more luridly hilariously overdramatic like "Game of Thrones" and "Caligula"

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:44 AM

Three down four to go.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 08:55 AM

Don't bet on it. We grow two new heads for each one removed, just like Hydra. Lock up your daughters.

Anyway, haven't a clue where they've gone.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 09:28 AM

I am just like a hydrant while stood in the bogs after about 6 pints of Black Sheep. Reckon if there was a pigs head involved I could blast it over the cross bar...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 09:56 AM

I still think that this represents some sort of sinister right-wing plot by a cabal of disgruntled Tory Party donors, retired army officers and members of the 'frothing-at-the-mouth-Genghis-Khan' faction of Tory MPs. They believe that Cameron is too 'moderate' and would like to replace him with someone who would not think twice about having Jeremy Corbyn shot and Labour controlled northern cities carpet bombed. You have been warned!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:25 AM

Dunno, Dave. When it comes to beer, there are some days when I'm so thirsty for it that I could do with a hogshead.


Shit, what have I said...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Acorn4
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:25 AM

Getting back to the point, was it erect or "on the slack" - we really need to know!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:41 AM

pigheads - No big surprise.

There's not much left the tories can't have stuck their sqalid little knobs in
considering they've brutally f@cked the entire nation !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 10:43 AM

You need to be careful too, Acorn.

Mast and Pannage

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 11:22 AM

"Getting back to the point, was it erect or "on the slack" - we really need to know!"

As I understand it, he was drinking white wine at the time, so he probably had a semillon....

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:42 PM

Eh? That shows how little I am on here these days. I shall quite miss Mither. Even if he was a nasty Blairite, every so often he said something worthwhile (unlike the hard core of vile neocons). I imagine the Mithers upset the increasingly censorious and anti-left mods, am I right? I used to feel that the mods did a very difficult job, mostly well. I am tending to drift away from that view.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:50 PM

well... even if the Muskets have disbanded...


As some kind of consolation.. the good news is the Bay City Rollers are getting back together again...😜

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 12:51 PM

And when I am dying and on my death bed,
By my bedside leave a fine full hogshead

Adds a whole new slant to the late lamented Keith Marsden song!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:24 PM

"well... even if the Muskets have disbanded...

As some kind of consolation.. the good news is the Bay City Rollers are getting back together again...😜"

For the love of Dog! I'd even prefer the Jim, Keith & Ake Comedy Revue to that poile o'shoite!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 01:34 PM

To replace "Team Musket", I've come up with a new name. "Team Akeefibus". Whaddya think?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 02:26 PM

Was this on "House Of Cards"?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Sep 15 - 03:21 PM

how do seamus how are you?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 03:00 AM

I think Terakeef has a better ring to it :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 03:31 AM

Apparently - according to the Telegrope, because he was not picked for cabinet office, Lord Ashton sponsored or otherwise encouraged (think money) his mates to tell stories about Cameroon. Well doesn't that take the biscuit?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 03:50 AM

So the Musket's have gone. Shame really, I shall miss their peculiarly middle-class English outlook on life and as Mr. Bridge says, they made some very good points.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:05 AM

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 08:06 AM

"Team Terakeef". You've nailed it, Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 04:57 PM

After looking at the picture of him with the pig, it struck me that he has a strong resemblance to Kermit.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 06:10 PM

Did he Kermit a crime?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Sep 15 - 06:50 PM

so, you all talking about a private moment between kermit and miss [dead] piggy ?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 06:33 AM

I wish we could see the photo. But it would need a caption to tell us which one was the pig. Or which was the live pig and which was the dead pig. Whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 10:43 AM

Did anyone catch 'Mock the Week' last night? There was a picture of DC fondling ... sorry ... I meant holding ... a piglet and the panel were asked to supply captions for the picture (a comedian's dream, I imagine!).

One of the panel (I forget his name) said: "The farmer is shouting, "No David! I said 'pluck a fig'!""

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 12:03 PM

Has anyone noticed the similarity here to the very first episode of Charlie Brookner's Black Mirror series? Did Mr Brookner know something???
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Black_Mirror_episodes

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 01:44 PM

The link at the start of the thread included the pic

This is the kind of stuff that would be worth gold to Trump if Obama had been a member of the Crap Pack.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Penny S.
Date: 25 Sep 15 - 01:49 PM

As I walked down that Blue Boar Street
In Oxford one fine morning
An exhausted student I did meet
Who paused and gave a warning

Most boars are brown, or black or pink
Ask not why this one's blue
Don't stir up more than porcine stink
For an answer you may rue


Got stuck there...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: DMcG
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:10 AM

Charlie Brooker has said it was co-incidence, Sarah. In fact, what he said was more like, "If I had known I would have been shouting it from the roof-tops", rather than write an oblique reference that only those in the know would understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 05:22 AM

Amazing Sarah.....what an indictment of media controlled humanity and where anti conservative society is headed.

However, don't really think it has anything to do with toffs initiation ceremonies.....That has more to do with all male Public Schools.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 06:04 AM

From now on everyone who meets Cameron in person will be thinking "you stuck your jake in a pig's mouth, you dirty git".

As well as: "You're a right nasty, vindictive, over-confident, thick tw*t".

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 06:42 AM

Ehmmm No Stu - only everyone like you, who are only too prepared to believe the worst of those they don't like on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

In so doing you only succeed in making decent human beings think that you yourself are "a right nasty, vindictive, over-confident, thick tw*t".

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 07:19 AM

The evidence is there or Cameron's spinners and pads believe it might be, hence no absolute denial. The chatter around the Westminster bubble as leaked onto pro-tory sites such as order-order.com make it clear pretty much everyone believes it. Truth is, they don't care what hayseeds like you or I think and I think the tories, generally are uncompassionate, easily brought, unintelligent, idealogically-driven, establishment twats. There are exceptions I suppose, but they're not in cabinet and they're not my Tory MP, who cannot grasp what "evidence-based policy making" even means. Mind you, he's not alone there, that's another tory trait.

As for Dave being nasty, well Tezza it appears you'd follow the party line whatever they told you but my personal experience of the tory party as a young conservative over 30 years ago tells me not to trust the buggers.

Thing is, I still can't tell after all these years whether you actually totally unquestioning as appears and truly believe all this twaddle they you or are taking the piss.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 07:20 AM

Not so, Teribus. It doesn't matter whether it is true or not. The accusation has been made and it will not go away. The damage is done and most people will inevitably wonder whether he did or not. Hopefully something will come of it and the Tories, who are past masters of the art, will realise what a two edged sword scurrilous claims can be. If it results in clipping the wings of their press lapdogs (excuse the mixed metaphors) that can only be a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,porkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 08:28 AM

"It doesn't matter whether it is true or not. The accusation has been made and it will not go away.
The damage is done and most people will inevitably wonder whether he did or not."


yes.. there's no smoky bacon without fire....😜

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 08:43 AM

"That has more to do with all male Public Schools"

yes.. now merely speculation..

but because so many MPs and Ministers went to the same elite schools;
irrespective of party membership or professed adult sexulality
there's probably many an open secret and mutual assured silence about who wanked who off or more
after lights out in the dorms....???

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 09:48 AM

Ah but there has been absolute denial - by those who supposedly "ran" the club referred to - no such incident ever took place and no such "initiation test" ever existed. Cameron more than likely on advice from his advisors saw no need to dignify the totally unfounded allegations with any response - leaving such gleeful magpie chatter as can be seen here to the gullible, the ignorant and the biased. Just think Stu if the positions were reversed and you found yourself in the position of the accused and those unsupported allegations were leveled at you, would you rather have someone with your mindset judging you than someone who by nature would demand some substantive proof, like Fred McC or myself?

Oh by the way Stu - just for the record I am probably one of the most a-political posters on this forum and have never, repeat never, ever been a member, or supporter, of any political party - which makes it impossible for me to "swallow" any "party line". Unlike you I have observed in my travels that not one single "socialist" government has ever worked or delivered on its promises, that that great evil "capitalism" allied to democracy has worked a damned sight better than any other alternative, and has lasted far longer - (EXAMPLE: All the refugees fleeing Africa and the Middle-East are headed where Stu? Why aren't they headed for Iran/Russia/China? - Don't struggle too hard with it Stu because I already know the answer).

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 09:51 AM

If you want to know about Tory mutually assured silence and secrets, I commend to you last Tuesday's extract of the good lord's book of revenge in last Tuesday's Mail. It dealt with the doings of the Chipping Norton set. I mention this again for the benefit of Teribus, who, of all people, will surely believe what he reads in the Mail. Piggy necrophilia doesn't even begin to describe the fun.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 10:06 AM

yeah.. there's certainly an interesting added social dynamic to consider in how politics works at the highest levels
if in any meeting or committee,
an elected MP or high ranking civil servant is seated next to his childhood bully/tormentor/abuser....????


At least in our all boys grammar school there were no known rumours of any forced bummings in the showers...!!!??? 😜

Though one of the nastier PE teachers and rugby coaches was later arrested for... shhhh.. and him a married man with children...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Stu
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 11:11 AM

"the gullible, the ignorant and the biased."

That's me! Woof!


"I am probably one of the most a-political posters on this forum"

You are taking the piss! Knew it.


"never, ever been a member, or supporter, of any political party"

That much is obvious. It might do you some good to get involved in a political party to see how they actually work at grass roots level. In my case as a Young Conservative I couldn't believe what I was seeing some of the time. When we had a socialist to talk the scales dropped from eyes. Tell what though T, it really put me off joining ANY political party for ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 11:18 AM

Blimey. You're a dyed in the wool Tory, Teribus, unless the Pope's a Muslim.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Sep 15 - 11:31 AM

Only when viewed by someone from your biased and intolerant perspective Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 27 Sep 15 - 03:58 AM

" ... just for the record I am probably one of the most a-political posters on this forum ..."

As I think I've observed on another thread, Right-wingers always claim to be apolitical - it's a dead give-away!

" ... only too prepared to believe the worst of those they don't like on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever."

Wasn't Cameron 'shopped' by another Tory? That's, so far, uncorroborated evidence - but evidence all the same.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 27 Sep 15 - 04:28 PM

Stu says:

"From now on everyone who meets Cameron in person will be thinking "you stuck your jake in a pig's mouth, you dirty git".


And this "everyone", will include, for instance, the King of Saudi Arabia. Thats the point, on the world stage, he is toast.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 04:49 AM

I somehow believe that the King of Saudi Arabia gives little credence to unsubstantiated rumour and stories and that relations between our two countries would be based on things a damned sight more substantial than personalities - a view coming from observing how the "real" world works Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 04:59 AM

well of course - such a wise decent man - so well known for his fair decent regime....

sometimes Terry...!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 05:02 AM

Shimrod,
As I think I've observed on another thread, Right-wingers always claim to be apolitical - it's a dead give-away!

So, what do apolitical people claim Shim?
How do you tell the difference?

Right-wingers always claim to be apolitical

An assertion based on what?
An equivalent assertion would be "Left wingers can not tell the difference."

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 05:24 AM

You can tell by the things people actually post, it's not too difficult (for most observers)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 06:25 AM

It clearly is too difficult, because I have never expressed a right wing view but get called right wing.

Apparently if I say I am not, that proves that I am!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 07:19 AM

will someone do a montage for this song for youtube? if you know anyone twould be a great favour
its called
Don't put your willy in the mouth of a pig

https://soundcloud.com/denise_whittle/dont-put-your-willy-in-the

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 08:39 AM

"Apparently if I say I am not, that proves that I am!"

It doesn't 'prove' anything. But I tend to agree with 'Guest' above:

"You can tell by the things people actually post, it's not too difficult (for most observers)"

And I know that it's childish, immature etc., etc. but I do like winding right-wingers up!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 08:56 AM

Not right wingers.
Challenging left wing views is a game for those of us at the centre too.

I suppose we all look the same to you from out there on the left.
You imagine that anyone not of the left must be of the right.
In your little world there is no centre view.
Yours is a silly little world indeed.

Will you produce one single right wing view I have ever expressed?
No.
How could you?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 09:00 AM

Keith - I'll agree with shimrod, what he states is a fair and accepted appraisal of the normative mindset of conservatism.

If my memory was healthier I could point you to academic sources,
it's frustrating that I might actually still have some textbooks rotting away in the back of the damp musty room downstairs..

Anyway.. I keep harping back to when I was a student 35 years ago...
but the courses I studied provided a very acute understanding of human behaviour, belief systems, and ideology,

Basically, the tory right adhere to beliefs that their perception of how the world does and should work is the natural timeless state of things.
Tories 'know' their beliefs and values are incontestable, absolutely right, and common sense.
Therefore it follows, that a bog standard conformist tory would agree that any one else with ideas that diverge from this natural state,
those who propose ideas for change are the folks who are actually being ideological and politically naive, impractical,
or downright dangerously and threateningly lefty and wrong.....

That's the tory arrogance in a nutshell - why tories can delude themselves that they are apolitical, while all their opponents are deranged utopian ideologues..

Now I'm fairly certain I wrote a far more articulate long essay on such matters back in the 2nd year of my degree,
but unfortunately this tatty explanation is the best I can do off the top of my head right now...

Someone else please take the batton and explain and expand more clearly - I need a strong mug of tea and a banana...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:06 AM

There you go, KAoH, punkfolkrocker expresses it far more eloquently than I ever could - even if he thinks that his explanation is a bit 'tatty'. That's YOU in a "nutshell" that is, Keith. Perhaps you should winkle out your kernel and hold it up to the light ... errr ... on second thoughts ... keep your kernel where it is and out of the light!

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:21 AM

And equally true pfr as demonstrated in thread after thread on this forum from the Brit contingent:

"Basically, the "socialist" left adhere to beliefs that their perception of how the world should work is the only state of things that can ever be tolerated.

The "socialist" left 'know' their beliefs and values are incontestable, absolutely right, and common sense - irrespective of how many times they are proved to be nothing of the sort.

Therefore it follows, that a bog standard conformist "socialist" would agree that any one else with ideas that diverge from socialist dogma, those who propose ideas for change are the folks who are actually being ideological and politically naive, impractical, or downright dangerously and threateningly right-wing and wrong.....

Oh once again Keith A hits the nail on the head - he and I are classified as being "right wing" not for espousing and advocating right wing views or beliefs but because we tilt at the dafter ideas put forward by the political left.

I am delighted that Corbyn won the election for the leadership of the Labour Party - It more or less guarantees that Labour will be resigned to the opposition benches for as long as he is there.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:22 AM

Pfr, none of that applies to me.
It does not describe me.

How can I be RW if I hold no RW views?
Just being critical of the Left is not enough.
We on the centre do that too.

There is much anti-left criticism within the Labour Party right now.
That does not make them RW either!

If you need to label someone as RW, produce a RW statement from them.
If you can not do that, ask yourself why.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:46 AM

see... as far as I can remember my understanding of politics developed from my mid teens
over 10 - 15 years of rigorous intense comparative critical analysis of the full spectrum of right/centre/left 'ideologies'...

On balance I, as many of my contemporaries, found more value in ideas & possibilities from centre to left...


Now I'm in my late 50s and battered and wearied from all life's shite..

My politics are based far more on experience [mostly negative]...

It's all about striving to achieve a sensible balance of opinions and priorities...

Some of you might be surprised how easily I can reconcile my 'leftist' views on socio economics
and trade unions & nationalisatin,
with my somewhat less forgiving 'rightist' views on law 'n' order -
particularly regarding street corner drug dealers, drunk drivers,
publicans who don't serve their cider fresh,
and full grown men who ride their bicycles on public pavements...

Now that does bring out the flog 'em and hang 'em baser baser instincts of my human nature..... 😜


btw.. left or right it's only 'human nature' to take the piss out of twattish crude stereotypes of the opposition...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:47 AM

see... as far as I can remember my understanding of politics developed from my mid teens
over 10 - 15 years of rigorous intense comparative critical analysis of the full spectrum of right/centre/left 'ideologies'...

On balance I, as many of my contemporaries, found more value in ideas & possibilities from centre to left...


Now I'm in my late 50s and battered and wearied from all life's shite..

My politics are based far more on experience [mostly negative]...

It's all about striving to achieve a sensible balance of opinions and priorities...

Some of you might be surprised how easily I can reconcile my 'leftist' views on socio economics
and trade unions & nationalisation,
with my somewhat less forgiving 'rightist' views on law 'n' order -
particularly regarding street corner drug dealers, drunk drivers,
publicans who don't serve their cider fresh,
and full grown men who ride their bicycles on public pavements...

Now that does bring out the flog 'em and hang 'em baser baser instincts of my human nature..... 😜


btw.. left or right it's only 'human nature' to take the piss out of twattish crude stereotypes of the opposition...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM

mods - it's happened again... I posted and it froze and hung for bloody ages..
I reopened mudcat 'home', then this thread again.. and it had still not posted

so I had time to tidy up some spelling, try to post again..

then find both posts had been recognised..

some odd delay / latency in the system somewhere.. ???

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 10:55 AM

It is all comparative. The centre now occupies the space that right of centre occupied not many years ago. Changing the goal posts does not make the right wing any less right wing but it does make the left seem more extreme. A very obvious trick by the right to stay in power. We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Sep 15 - 11:16 AM

No.....

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:05 AM

Yes...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:08 AM

Nice to see you back, Raggy. Have a good time?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:14 AM

Fabulous Thank You.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:41 AM

"The centre now occupies the space that right of centre occupied not many years ago. Changing the goal posts does not make the right wing any less right wing but it does make the left seem more extreme. A very obvious trick by the right to stay in power. We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we..."

Talking about abstracts here gnome. What the "centre" you refer to here represents is what could be described are the political views and opinions that would appeal to the majority of the electorate and as such is the target for any and every political party that seeks power through the ballot box - the centre as such does not move the political parties seeking election shift their stance and tailor their manifestos accordingly. As the largest and fastest growing social class across the entire planet is the middle-class then it should come as a surprise to no-one that political opinion has drifted the way it has - no "obvious trick by the right" at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 05:56 AM

So the Political Parties follow the people, not the people the Political Parties. Interesting thought.

How do the people form their stance on issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 06:01 AM

How do the people form their stance on issues.?

they ask themselves, would i want this man shagging my pig?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 06:08 AM

Talking about abstracts here gnome.

Indeed. Glad you were clever enough to spot that. I presume that also mean that everyone else talking about left, right and centre are talking abstracts as well?

no "obvious trick by the right" at all.

You did disappoint me with that one though. If tailoring their manifestos to suit the centre is not an obvious trick then I don't know what is.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 08:21 AM

Dave and Rag, you say "We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we."
I do not.
Please give an example of that behaviour, and why not name them?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 08:35 AM

Dave put forward a proposition, I indicated I agreed with his proposition.

That should not concern you.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 09:49 AM

and why not name them?

Because the moderators recommend that we do not name names. I thought you know that?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:29 AM

Sort of like this of Facebook.

I have liked it. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:45 AM

OK, I'll compromise. How's about this: Keith, you shall remain nameless.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:47 AM

OK Dave, then please give an example of this goalpost moving behaviour.
Rag, you may know who it is but I do not, which shows that Dave's assertion, that you supported, is wrong.

"We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we."
No.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:51 AM

Steve, I am not nameless.
Can you provide examples of the goal moving behaviour.

When Dave said "we" was he just referring to a gang or clique of Mudcatters, and not all?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:52 AM

I provided an example of moving goal posts in the post you are talking about. In the light of your denial my original statement seems incorrect. I shall change my statement.

We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we. Except Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:57 AM

Leave me outta this, Keith. I did allow you to remain nameless. Be fair. Now where's that bloody Geoffrey Wheatcroft thread. It was all goalposts and no football field...

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 10:59 AM

There are some arseholes who just can't help themselves but I won't mention any names of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 11:01 AM

Hi Raggy, of course political parties follow the people - what the hell did you think created "New Labour"? Up until it's creation Labour had proved to be unelectable.

Under Corbyn it will prove to be equally unelectable.

Interesting statistics - ~9.3 million voters voted Labour at the last General Election (a number insufficient to win) only ~250,000 voted in the Labour leadership election of which ~150,000 voted for Corbyn - his supposed mandate comes from a tiny minority posing as a majority.

How do "the people" form their views and opinions? Don't know about them or about you Raggy but rather than have any political party staffed to the gills by people who have never actually worked a day of their lives in the real world tell me what to think I tend to inform myself as best I can, apply commonsense, try to look further forward than the length of my nose , then make up my own mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 11:56 AM

Dave, the only goal post moving you referred to was "The centre now occupies the space that right of centre occupied not many years ago."

Are you saying it goes on in Mudcat too, or not.
If it is, please give an example.
If you can't, it looks like an entirely spurious claim.
Can you?

Subject: RE: BS: Piggate
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Sep 15 - 12:02 PM

We all know someone who regularly changes the goal posts don't we. Except Keith.

How do you know this Dave, if you are not just referring to your little gang.
You can nmot even give a single example of the behaviour you complained of.
What is it all about Dave?