BS: police chases

Subject: police chases
From: star2fire
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 09:54 PM

We have just had the third police chase in the last week, here in SoCal.

First, why do people run from the cops, like they think they are going to get away? (Well, that one guy committed suicide by cop, but anyway...) and second, tonight it was a new 1999 Jeep, and it started *smoking*!!! What kind of new car won't even run from the cops for an hour without blowing up? Denise

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Áine
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:02 PM

I think there's actually been more than one person to commit suicide by inticing the police to shoot them, which is so horrible and tragic.

As to the 1999 Jeep -- Well, any idiot who thinks they can outrun the police is probably not bright enough to put oil in their car!

I think a very interesting question in these 'chases' is why in world do people watch this? What is the thrill? Does it equate with the 'rubberneck' syndrome when driving by a terrible car accident? Has the world progressed at all from the 'good old days' of public execution? -- well, most of the world anyway, since that kind of barbarism still goes on, unfortunately.

Good thread, star2fire!

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:31 PM

I'm sure everybody has a police chase tale, but this subject kinda' gets me. I have never understood the mentality of the "chase" through streets and areas where innocent people are apt to get hurt or killed. A lot of police are just like some of us....like to drive fast. Yeah, I know they've had training, but come on.....if there is one nut blasting through the streets, do we need to compound the problem. I can think of over a dozen fatalities around here in the past year as a result of chases.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 10:39 PM

While on a chase, a police car crash into my car. To make matters worse the policemen tried their best to intimidate and blame the accident on me.
It was one awful night to say the least

Bonnie

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:05 PM

I hate those kinds of programs on television; they are voyeurism and vicariousness at their worse. I wonder why anyone watches them and why we have a thread discussing them. Sorry, it's just my opinion.

Denise, welcome to the Mudcat, anyway. You will find a great bunch of people here, despite my comments above.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:05 PM

And I am glad you're around to tell the tale BB!!! Exactly my point.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: ddw
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:15 PM

This has been a huge debate here in Canada for several years. 'Spaw has a point on just doubling the danger, but what if the police weren't allowed to give chase? If they couldn't and every joyriding kid in the world knew it, wouldn't they be more likely to boot it on the assumption that the cops can't follow? With the driving skills of most of these kids (usually 14 to 16 years old), I wonder how many more of them — and the carload of buddies they've picked up to show off for — would get killed? And what about the real bad-asses? Wouldn't they have a field day?

It's pretty easy to say that chases are bad when somebody gets killed, but if you think the police have any worth at all in our society and that maybe catching criminals is a good thing, the question gets a little more complex.

david

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: star2fire
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:18 PM

Kat, thanks for the welcome. *I* watch car chases, that's who. BB, I am horrified to read what happened to you, and glad you are still here to tell. Aine, it was a jacked car. The woman was lucky to get away with her life. She buys this jeep, it gets jacked and then it blows up. Remind me never to buy a jeep. Thank you for reading my bs post, and answering. Denise (who always takes time to watch a chase...)

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: catspaw49
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:22 PM

The problem ddw, is that I agree with you entirely!!! This is a tough problem and I wish I had a solution. I was tempted NOT to post, because I don't have a better idea. More police, better use of radios, more air patrols, etc. could all make a difference, but a solution? Dunno......I think we need to keep the issue in the forefront. The situation is getting worse.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Diesel
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:23 PM

I think police chases have lost the run of themselves if you pardon the pun.It once was that the police chased those who wished to get away from a crime scene. Nowadays its the crimescene of the stolen cars which is the thrill of spectators and occupants of such.The purpose is not to have a crime to get away from but the chase from which to win by getting away from the police. As for not being able to get away - some young kids at home are actively involved in this scene and at the ages of 12 - 15 years some of them are more than capable of making the police look slow.The secret - at such an age - the kids do not know what fear is and have no thoughts to loss of live - theirs or others. There is a solution,unfortunately not very PC to say - but capital punishment was done away with a long lime ago as was the police right to enforce discipline without fear of being sued.....

rgds

Diesel

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: ddw
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:43 PM

I agree, 'Spaw, but all those measures — particularly the air patrols — are more than a little pricey. Do the taxpayers who denounce the chases want to pay the taxes for the equipment to make them less dangerous? Almost everybody I come in contact with (except the small-L liberals and socialists, who think it's OK to let the government decide how to spend the money they work for) thinks they're taxed enough. Back to Square 1.

david

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Dec 99 - 11:48 PM

Because of the danger involved, there's been a move in recent years toward police restraint in vehicle chases, and I think that's generally a good thing. Sometimes, though, they're still necessary. I sure wish they could do away with the press helicopters, though.
I think there's a tendency for the public to use very little factual basis in passing judgment on police actions. Police work is a well-nigh impossible job, and those who do it have millions of critics to watch their every move.
Before I retired last month, it was my job as an investigator to pass judgment on applicants for police officer positions. At times I'd get a little cynical about police officers and their tendency to have a "cocky" attitude, but I have to admit that they have an awfully tough job, and people should have a little more sympathy for them.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:20 AM

Probably won't ever happen in America, but many of us have been talking about raising the age limit for drivers' licenses to 18 or even 19. I know it would never fly here in Wyoming. Too many kids come in from ranches who have special dispensationt o drive at 14. But I see kid after kid pull out of the local high school in brand new cars and no idea of the power the have behind the wheel. Last year, one of the plowed right into a bicyclist who had just moved here. Killed him; she was out with ehr friends in the suv mommy and daddy had given her. Barring not alowing them to drive, I think they should all have to drive old, big clunkers which won't go over 30mph!*BG*

Sorry, Denise, I don't mean to offend you, but I do abhor those programs and I do not think it is a good thing to fill one's consciousness with them. It becomes too easy to imagine ourselves in such a situation and perhaps attract such happenings, IMO.

Joe is right. It is a tough job, esp. with live news coverage, which is almost always sensationalised.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: ddw
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:26 AM

I agree, Joe, that police need a little restraint on chases. The saw-off in most juristictions in Canada is that the line officer must notify his patrol Sgt. if he takes up a chase and let the Sgt. know several things — nature of the offence, road and traffic conditions, etc. — and the two of them decide whether to make chase or break chase. There are some pretty specific guidelines in most PDs on when to break off.

As for the news helicopters, I agree wholeheartedly — and I'm a newsman. The problem is that television has gone too far in the "immediacy" aspect of their news. And, of course, the public — most of whom never think of the ramifications of what they demand by what they tune into — are blithely unaware that television often MAKES the news, rather than REPORTS it.

I first observed the phenomenon in 1969 when I went to Moritorium '69 in Washington. The march would go along peacefully for a while, then a TV crew would point its lenses at us, and some of the people would start doing things that were completely stupid — trashing a block or throwing things — just to get attention. The overall experience — including watching some TV crews prompt the marchers to do things — turned me off the broadcast media pretty effectively. I was majoring in radio-TV at the time, but I switched to poli sci and ultimately wound up in newspapers, which, unfortunately, have also lost a lot of their sense of ethics in the gathering-reporting of news.

Damn! Don't get me started on what the Woodward/Bernstein wannabes have done.....

david

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 03:25 AM

I've never understood that if the national speed limit is X miles per hour, why do the manufacturers continue to make cars that go at double that speed or more?

Surely there could be a step forward there? Mind you, I have been in the back of a police car when it clocked someone doing 120 mph across a slip road, and it was incredibly exciting, watching the speedo go round, as we caught up with him. I can understand why 'joyriders' do it, the speed kick is amazing, but as a control freak, it was scary. The adrenalin kick was far more disturbing than the speed thrill, as we caught up with them....

Police in UK have been instructed to have 'zero tolerance' with drivers speeding as little as 1 mile above the speed limit, but it has made little difference to my road. It is a long road with a couple of curves in it. There is a long straight section with speed restrictions, sleeping policemen (speed bumps)and width restrictions to allow single file only. Once through this, the average driver turns the bend to see a fairly straight, dquite wide bit of road, so they speed up. I've had cars, bikes and busses whizzing past my house at over 50mph, only to slam their brakes on hurredly when they come to the next bend and the narrow bit. There is a lot to be said for having all our roads straight.... the Romans had the right idea! Picking on the 'accidental' speeders 1-5 mph above limit, will not stop those doing twice the limit, neither will it do anything but waste valuable police time.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 04:52 AM

To Liz The Squeek: 'Cause American consumers won't buy a car that only does 55 or 65... O.k... North Americans.... We want bigger, faster, better gas mileage, ect.. I agree though... if the limit on the highway is 65mph, (110 kph for us Canucks) then why make a consumer car that goes faster?!?! Police, ambulance ect, sure!! Make them as fast as they can go, but Joe-Blow who stopped learning how to drive 2 seconds after he got his licence going that fast is a menace... Ask the bit of the 401 outside Windsor, known as the "Death Stretch" about that...

As far as chases go.. well... a pub mate of mine is known for and brags about running from the cops, both in Windsor and back home on the east coast... recently he was zipping down the street on his new, blaze orange Triumph, a car pulled out infront of him and he couldn't stop... he now has pins in his leg that are gonna bother him until they put him in the ground... I'm the only one in the pub that has no sympathy for him at all... I'm just glad he didn't hurt anyone else! I guess what I'm getting at is that I like to think, what goes around, comes around... I just hope none of you are around when it comes around for this guy again!!!

To ddw: The cop that works at this pub which you and I both know has remarked to me how much she enjoys chasing someone when she knows they can drive as well as she can... Am I the only one bothered by this??? Sure.. THEY might be good drivers, but what about me... I'm not the most skilled of drivers.. what happens when I end up in the middle of this mess and end up taking out 3 other cars in my panic?!?! Maybe Banjo Bonnie is sorta making this pont as well eh?!?!

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 07:19 AM

Clinton, I guess the point I'm making is that I was your typical bystander driving home from work and out of nowhere, this police car smashes into my driver's side back seat door. It was a miracle I got out in one piece. But the worst part of it all was dealing with them. I guess they were scared of the repercussions and since I was pretty young at the time, they thought they could just blame the accident on me. Fortunately, there were so many witnesses their argument just wouldn't hold. The worst part of it all was how disappointed I was in their behaviour. I have always respected the work of policemen and have felt comforted by their presents.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 07:36 AM

From "Liz the Squeak:"

"I've never understood that if the national speed limit is X miles per hour, why do the manufacturers continue to make cars that go at double that speed or more?"

For once, a question with an easy answer.

If a law or regulation were enacted requiring manufacturers to limit the speed of the cars to the legal limits, or barely more, almost no one would buy such cars for several years, at least until their old cars were so worn out that they had no choice. This would result in a major economic depression.

It's a choice between a few people killed and maimed unnecessarily (I don't think I spelled that right, but I refuse to bother porting this over to my word processor and back just to run a spell check) or a lot of people out of work, broke, and homeless - I mean, over and above those who are now. Not a pleasant choice, but it has to be made unless people all decide for themselves that they not only don't want to drive fast, but don't want to have the option to. Just like repeal of prohibition, when we had to balance the harm alcohol does against the harm of making the alcohol business a monopoly of organized crime. (As other recreational drugs are now - but we have become a little less realistic since the '30s)

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:23 AM

To answer one question: People run from the cops because not all cops are "nice people"...some are sadistic thugs that use their badges to "justify" their actions...remember Rodney King? The people who run are afraid of THESE cops.

I have the greatest respect for honest policemen/women, but they're not the only type out there. There was an sad example recently, where a skinny 15-year old black boy was fatally "detained" (the 3 cops involved apparently held him so tightly that he suffocated) because he sorta resembled the description of a "perp"...who was 45 yrs old, Hispanic and weighed 250 lbs.

That's why a lot of people are afraid of cops

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: InOBU
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 10:45 AM

Aine: (Sorry for no fada on the A, for some reason my accents dont work in this program) A funny Irish story about a police chase, though, I have seen too many tragic consiquences to not endorse the sentiments here that some restraint is needed... I used to build and rase Irish Currachs. I take it you are in Ireland and know, I mean the wee ocean oared fishing boats. So, I brought the sport to America, and one year, the all Ireland crew from Kerry (of course) came out to row in New Yorks regatta. My crew took them out to dinner in midtown, their first time in the US (about fifteen years ago). Now, one can spend years in New York, contrary to the steriotypical image, and never see an arrest. Well, as we come out of the restaurant, there is one of these huge drug arrests. Ten cop cars, cops running from every direction, guns drawn, fellas grabbed and thrown against the wall, guns at their heads. every one running away, except our lads from Maharees, who stand there, litterally in the middle of this all, big grins on their faces, watching and slapping each other for not having cameras. I think they though we arrainged it for them, as a sort of tourest event, a live NYPD Blue or something. Slan Larry Otway

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Fortunato
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:14 AM

Movies and Television are powerful learning tools. The lights and sound and motion and color send powerful signals to the brain and reinforce memory more effectively than anything else. Now imagine that these powerful learning tools are turned on by most Americans for 5 hours a day. Now imagine that the things being learned are chosen by people who are interested in getting rich and couldn't care less what the long term cumulative effects are of their chosen programming.

So we have taught ourselves to do the wrong things. We have taught ourselves to drive too fast, run away from the police, shoot each other when we're angry, etc. I have to stop now I'm bumming my self out.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:17 AM

I am a liberal. I resent being lumped with a group of people who dont always think straight (the way I do). As POGO said, "We have met the enemy, and, he is us." We want all kinds of services, but, we dont want to paY FOR them..by the way, its the conservatives who are always bitching about taxes, thats how we pay for those helicopters etc.
The matter of the jeep catching fire..what kind of mental midget thinks he can outrun a high powered police car with a jeep?
One more thing, when you run from a cop, its like a cat running from a dog..it guarantees a chase, because that cop is so insensed that you disrespected him by running,you are asking for it. He/she is human, and the adrenalin takes over.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Midchuck
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:32 AM

"One more thing, when you run from a cop, its like a cat running from a dog..it guarantees a chase, because that cop is so insensed that you disrespected him by running,you are asking for it. He/she is human, and the adrenalin takes over."

That's a big part of the problem. People who become police officers tend to have a greater need to establish their own dominance, to assert themselves, than perhaps the average member of the population, and I think it distracts them from their primary mission.

Maybe all police should be women. At least they wouldn't be concerned with proving that they had bigger balls than the perpertrators....

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From:
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:56 AM

In Omaha NE Metro Cops cannot chase - the city made a law after several innocent people were killed by the pursuing cop cars.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 12:41 PM

Remember Barney Fife? he had no OFFICER PRESENSE. this is vital if you are going to be a cop. You must establish who is ih charge. If you cant do that, you are like Barney Fife.A joke

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: star2fire
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 04:33 PM

This last chase was not a high speed chase. It was just that the guy wouldn't pull over, but he didn't speed around. That's why I was so surprised that the car was smoking like a chimney after 20 minutes. I watch chases like this.....=:-O.....and I am glad that I know what is going on out there. If the news didn't show it, I might get entangled in one myself. If I am out and about and I see more than one helicopter circling, I get out of the area, or I find a place to stop. My husband works the freeways (road construction) and sees chases fairly frequently. If one is coming his way, I call him on his cell phone and he tries to get out of the way. So, not only is the news coverage helpful in keeping the general public informed...it's fun to watch. Come on people. It is fun to watch. That is the stuff of legends! The fodder for folk songs! The old heros are often just the ones that got away!!! Denise

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 08:18 PM

To expand on Midchuck's premise:

A mandolinist I gig with now and then is a former policeman (25 years on the force), and he states, "A lot of mental misfits become cops because they couldn't make it in the fast foods industry."

An alarming thought, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 09:35 PM

like Dunkin Donut Shops?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Mudjack
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 03:50 PM

star2fire, I left So.Cal 6 years ago and the local newschoppers were having a hayday covering all the exciting freeway chases. A CHP officer I knew assurred me at that time, it was'nt news, it was an everyday occurence but the newschopper found a new hype tool to use. I guess it gives them something to do while waiting for the traffic jams to report.
It was scarey to me when I heard about the corner car jackings. Those crazies would shoot you if you did'nt turn over your car, and then when police would catch up to the culprit, the chase is on.....oh! a freeyway chase. Cheap thrills cost the taxpayers a ton of money. The last chase I paid any attention to was OJ Simpson and was only watching to see if the jerk was actually going to do himself in. Sure glad he saved himself for the trail of the century. Of course he was innocent, the justice system said he was.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 07:52 PM

I'd have thought there could be a few easy enough technical fixes, if we really wanted them. If every car had built into it (where it couldn't be disabled) a radio trace device that showed where it was, that'd take out the need for chasing stolen cars. Pick them up at leisure. No adrenalin fun being chased. No adrenalin fun for those cops who like chases.

Wouldn't stop kids taking cars and driving them too fast, but if there wasn't a cop behind them, "too fast" probably wouldn't be quite so fast. And there might be a better chance that there'd be a cop waiting for them up ahead, and the longer they drove the greater that chance would be.

Also, properly effective mobilising devices could do a lot.The existing ones are a joke. What you need is one where, once you know a car's been stolen, you push a button and the engine falls out. The reality principle strikes again.

Of course what I'd really like would be that anytime you go significantly higher than the relevant speed limit the same thing happens, the engine falls out - and that would apply whether you were a hijacker or the owner. With speed limits of about 15 miles an hour in built-up areas to give children a chance.

Remember, it's all very well to point the finger at hoodlums and cops, but most people killed on the roads are killed by people driving their own cars. A bit like guns I suppose in places where it's legal to have them. But no, please let's not get into that.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 09:32 PM

are you aware that debris on the highways account for thousands of accidents per year? old bumpers and tires are bad enough, but, engines?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:18 AM

Well, Idon'r think the cars would go very far after the engine dropped out, so whuikle you were picking up the carn you'd pick up the engine as well. Of course if you kledfrtbthe car there, that would really slow up the next speedy driver.

To try a bit of thread drift back into folk song - it's occurred to me to wonder how come there are so few disaster songs about car crashes, as opposed to railway trains or boats? I suppose if you stretch a point there's stuff like Leader of the Pack, but I can't think of any in the folk tradition (apart from a couple I wrote myself).

And the same goes for aeroplane crashes - theres Woody Guthrie's Plane Crash at Los Gattos, and a song about the Munich crash back in the 50swhen the Manchestyer United Football team was wiped out, but apart from that I can't think of any.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:45 AM

Are those Gaelic or Welch words? dont know what they mean... anyway, how about Wreck on the Highway? or Candy Apple Red...not exactly folk, but, maybe someday?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From:
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 09:31 PM

your question a good american car for running from the cops and not blowing up is an old buick with a 445ci wildcat engine if you cant get that a buick regal because most cop bullets wont go threw them and the engines are strong nothing new in the past 20 years

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:23 PM

On a straight highway, maybe. But, the police car has special suspension for flat cornering. Also, if one of those cops is carrying a .357 magnum it will penetrate any engine. Does it make sense to commit a possible felony to avoid a misdemeanor?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Biskit
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 03:06 PM

Kendall: you really shouldn't judge ol'Barney so harshly he represents the little boy" or girl in each of us who means well but does wrong at least ol'Barn continued to try to improve himself which of course will go right over the head of a knows everything does nothing Liberal -Biskit-

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 03 Mar 00 - 04:24 PM

I'm not sure what you are implying, but, I've been there and I am a liberal. Do you remember the great depression? If it hadn't been for the Liberals we wouldn't have had anything to eat. Also, if not for the Liberals, there would be no 40 hour work week, no 8 hour day,no social security and no womens right to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Lanfranc
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 07:19 AM

Here in the UK there's much talk of reducing speed limits.

One statistic that gets missed is that less than 8 percent of accidents are due directly to speed, the rest are due to stupidity or mechanical failure.

We are now beset with speed cameras that can lose you your licence in a 100-mile drive (or less, if you're really stupid), but that's too easy.

What is really needed is an instant intelligence test that can be conducted at the roadside or programmed into the car (Two wrong answers and the car won't start!), plus a legal requirement to possess a certificate that your vehicle has been professionally serviced in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

Failure to pass the former or produce the latter would result in an instant on-the-spot ban, and, by the same logic as applied to speed cameras, result in a 92 percent reduction in accidents.

Most unlikely to happen - would the average policeman pass the intelligence test? Would they be trusted to administer it?

In the meantime, we have a whole new tax on motorists (which is most of us), which raises millions of pounds a year - for what? ?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Troll
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 11:22 AM

Kendall, I think you'll find that the progressive movement was responsible for all except social security. There were many republicans in the progressives including Theodore Roosevelt.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 05:09 PM

Progressives? what are they? Republicans in disguise? My brother is a retired heavy equipment operator (operating engineer) and he has a cap which says Labor unions, the folks who gave you the weekend. Nuff said.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Troll
Date: 04 Mar 00 - 11:48 PM

Kendall, I respectfully suggest that you read a good history of the US from 1900 to 1930. It may give you some new insights into what was a very important preiod in American history.

As for unions, I've been a union man for nearly thirty years. In that time I served for years as a shop steward until health problems forced me to relinquish the position. I am well aware of the contributions of labor unions to the overall welfare of the working man and woman.

I'm not trying to bust your chops but history is history and all the rhetoric in the world will not change a single fact of it.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: bob schwarer
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 07:23 AM

A liberal is one who spends other peoples money.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:19 AM

Hey, come off it.. tell me the difference between a tax and spend democrat and a borrow and spend republican. Who promised to balance the budget,but never submitted a balanced budget, and then ran us 4 trillion dollars into debt? If you are looking for an argument, you are in the right place!!

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:20 AM

A conservative is one who says "Pull up the ladder, I"M aboard."

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: Troll
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 09:54 AM

As long as we are slinging slogans," If one is not a liberal at twenty, he has no heart; if he is not a conservative at forty, no brain." Or how about," A liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been mugged."

My advice, grow up! deal in facts and not rhetoric.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: JedMarum
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:15 AM

chuckle; how did we get from cop car chases to liberal/conservative bashing?

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 10:38 AM

I remember it used to be "A yippie is a hippie who's been clubbed by a cop". Remember yippies?

"less than 8 percent of accidents are due directly to speed, the rest are due to stupidity or mechanical failure" - yes, Alan. But if you do something stupid at 20 miles an hour and run into a pedestrian, they'll probably live. If you do it at 40 their chances are pretty poor. At 60 they haven't a chance.

A fool with a bicycle is a lot less of a menace than a fool with a high speed car.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: bob schwarer
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 01:15 PM

Damn. Pardon me all to hell. Sorry you have such a thin skin.

Bob S. who grew up in the depression, was in 2/3 unions, and could tell you war stories of the coruption in one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: kendall
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 01:33 PM

I did grow up. I used to be a Republican

Subject: RE: BS: police chases
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 00 - 07:17 PM

What's the difference between a Republican and a Democrat? So far as I can see both parties contain people somewhere to the right of Margaret Thatcher and a fauir way to the left of Tony Blair (which isn't really a great deal of difference, I grant you.)

Sorry about the weird mis-spellings in the last post I did on this thread back in December. So I'll do it again, with the spellings corrected, since the attempted thread drift back to sonmgs still seesm relevant. Better than politicians anyway. :

Well, Idon't think the cars would go very far after the engine dropped out, so while you were picking up the car you'd pick up the engine as well. Of course if you left the car there, that would really slow up the next speedy driver.

To try a bit of thread drift back into folk song - it's occurred to me to wonder how come there are so few disaster songs about car crashes, as opposed to railway trains or boats? I suppose if you stretch a point there's stuff like Leader of the Pack, but I can't think of any in the folk tradition (apart from a couple I wrote myself).

And the same goes for aeroplane crashes - theres Woody Guthrie's Plane Crash at Los Gattos, and a song about the Munich crash back in the 50swhen the Manchestyer United Football team was wiped out, but apart from that I can't think of any.

Plane crashes that I'd have thought might well have produced songs would have been where airliners were blown out of the sky, like Lockerbie, or the Iranian Airliner destroyed by the USS Vincennes in 1988.

(There was a documentary about that on BBC TV this weekend - I hadn't realised the captain who shot down the airliner, and killed 290 civilians was decorated for it - on the evidence of fellow US Navy officers in the programme, he should clearly have been court-martialled, but I suppose that would have been too embarassing.)