BS: Tory party conference

Subject: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 06 Oct 15 - 05:26 PM

So, it would seem that Theresa May is somewhat to the right of Mr Farage.

And Boris Johnson has the temerity to accuse supporters of Jeremy Corbyn of having 'vested interests'. and the Tories don't?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Oct 15 - 05:41 PM

Aye, the turkeys voted for Christmas......necks out lads and lasses, here it comes!
And the feeble-minded will continue to be bamboozled into voting for them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Oct 15 - 06:34 PM

What Woodie said.

If the ballot box will not bring the toffs down, then there has to be another way. Ireland 1916 or 1966 anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Oct 15 - 08:48 PM

my mum is 83.

Today I had to visit her while the nurse from the memory clinic made an assessment
One of the standard questions is "Do you know who the prime minister is ?"

Mum stumbled on this question.. frustratingly trying to dig deep in her mind..

"Ooh.. I know who he is.. I know his face.. I know his horrible face.. he's that tory..."

You could savour the disgust in the tone of her voice as she spat out the word "tory" - it was brilliant... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 01:21 AM

That should have been 1922.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 03:43 AM

Right!... I accept that you are probably all Labour voters and I am certainly a socialist, but on one particular issue the Tory party have now altered their view and agree with Mr Farage that unlimited immigration is madness.....we have net immigration of 350000 per annum when only a tear ago Mr Cameron was talking about "tens of thousands". £50000 and rising......for ever?

We also have the grave danger of refugees and economic migrants arriving from the Middle East and North Africa, without adequate checks being done on their status......I and others have warned of this scenario for years on these pages and you sneered and insulted

Don't let you ideology blind you to the reality of the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:13 AM

And you wonder why people sneer at you.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:51 AM

We who pointed out the idiocy have been proved correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:57 AM

Realism in politics is imperative.

I don't agree with 90% of Tory policy, but policies should be viewed on merit not through the prism of ones ideology.

A remark like "And you wonder why people sneer at you" is completely meaningless in the context of debate.

It is simply Mr Shaw attempting to be a smart arse.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:59 AM

ask the guys at calais about our policy of 'unlimited immigration'
do you kippers ever think that maybe immigration is not the major problem facing our countries? could it just be a distraction for the dull-witted and racists who will vote for a party who cut their wages, sell-off vital public services, slash benefits and victimise our young people - as long as they can pretend to talk tough on foreigners.
these tories are eagerly getting stuck into the job of decimating the nature of our state - no matter how many folk come here or leave is insignificant until these criminals are stopped.
and when they are we can start paying people in this country proper wages, restore rights at work and stop our well-qualified workers leaving.
in the care sector the charity i work for can't afford to pay workers properly, so have difficulty in recruiting and retaining staff. there are hardly any immigrants round here to 'do the low paid work that the brits won't do' so our company is in danger of having to downsize/close while trying to get the existing workers to work longer hours. we have already lost sick pay, some holidays and maternity rights. and all this while the disabled people are losing allowances and benefits and workers are due to have their tax credits cut.
sorry for moaning about my work but even there i hear folk going on about being swamped and the dangers of sharia law (in cumbria? really?) it's the duty of all of us to not be taken in by all the media/tory lies and distortions. keep your focus on the problem - it's capitalism- sanctioning racist attitudes towards imaginary demons is not the solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 06:52 AM

achmelvich, in the first few sentences of your excellent post above you've aptly described The Tory party here in the U.S. (Republicans) and the racist dullards who make up a sizable chunk of their constituency.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 07:08 AM

Brilliant post, achmelvich. Are you listening, akenaton? As you're so obsessed with immigration (a handy enough topic to keep you away from your other aberrations I suppose), perhaps you can tell us all about the damage it's doing. About how hardly any immigrants come here for a life on benefits, that would be a good start. About how the people who employ them on criminally low wages and in terrible conditions are nearly always British. Before you launch into your litany of the evils of foreigners again, perhaps you could keep at the back of your mind that you'll be talking about actual human beings.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 07:13 AM

Great post Achmelvich - hats off to you! 👍

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 07:16 AM

its sad that sensible debate is not possible on this subject on this forum?

quite predictable is the stream of abuse from the usual suspects.

it is an interesting subject, worthy of debate and it would interesting to know how our different experiences could provide enlightenment and discussion.

however you may as well close the thread now.

lets cut to the chase. this thread merely provides for unpleasant people with a talent for abuse, an interstice in which they can and will exercise their talents.
lets avoid the unpleasantness - cut it off at source.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 07:39 AM

I think that most people agree that unlimited immigration is not sustainable, but it was the language that Theresa May was using. Immigrants are taking our jobs, immigrants are forcing wages down, they are a strain on our services.
I found the following comments from Tom Bradby (ITV political commentator) quite interesting---------

He wrote, on his Facebook page.......


Sometimes, politicians do things that are really hard to understand.

Theresa May has just given a rather tough speech to the Tory Conference. In it, she said of immigration that the 'net economic and fiscal effect is close to zero.'

But here are a few obvious problems with that.

1) It was her government that promised more than five years ago to reduce immigration to the 'tens of thousands' so her speech can be read as an attack on her own policy and record in government.

2) We have no control over our borders because citizens of EU member states can come here at will. So far as I am aware, the government has no plans to attempt to change this.

3) The OBR (the independent statistical body set up by the government itself) issued a detailed study a few years ago on the long term impact of immigration on the public finances. It came up with some stark conclusions; if net immigration runs at a level of 140,000 per year for the next fifty years, our debt to GDP ratio would be 99%. But cut immigration to zero, it concluded, and you'd end up with a ratio of 174%. In other words, in a country with an ageing population as we are, a reasonable level of immigration is essential to keeping the public finances healthy. This is because most immigrants are educated elsewhere (which saves us a lot of money) and quite often return to their countries of origin in retirement (saving us a fortune in health and social care).

Of course, it is possible Theresa May doesn't actually read her government's own statistics but someone in her office surely must. And it is certainly hard to see how they fit with her claims today.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 07:43 AM

There has been no stream of abuse. Well, unless we classify my being called a smart arse as a stream of abuse (I don't). What's yer beef, Al?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 08:15 AM

The Lib Dems and Labour also say that immigration is too high, and damagingly so.

They also accept that wages of low and unskilled are driven down.
It is undeniable that more people put more pressure on services. We have a massive housing shortage already.

What specifically should she not have said?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 08:53 AM

Achmelvich, Unlimited Immigration is one of the major problems facing our country.
It was instigated to provide cheap labour for our service industries at the expense of poorer countries. Instead of developing their own economy and infrastructure they exploit there working people. Hardly a defining principle of socialism?

Times have changed, now the swarms of immigrants no longer make a beneficial contribution to the UK economy plus the fact that OUR infrastructure is crumbling and bursting at the seams.

I repeat, are we expected to accept 350000, 450000, 1 million, per year for ever?....just to satisfy an idiotic and completely lopsided ideology.    Dream on!    Proper students of political thought are realists first and foremost.

As to the others, including Mr smart arse, I disagree with most of the Tories economic policies and they fucked up big time in supporting our loss of sovereignty and relinquishing control of our borders through membership of the EU, but at least they are pragmatic enough to realise when they are simply wrong.    The pretend liberals here have been wrong in almost every issue that they have been involved in, but very few have had the balls to admit it.    Al being an honourable exception.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 08:55 AM

Teresa May BTW is my confident bet for next Prime Minister of the UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 09:03 AM

Ake, you may well be correct about Teresa May but I am reminded of an old saying that conservatives would vote for a pig with a blue rosette. In the light of recent claims that would seem quite apt.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 09:20 AM

Mrs May is a powerful politician, do not underestimate her.

She has been an excellent Home secretary.....with a coupe of staggers, but strong and inspiring to those with no particular ideology to service,..... in the mould of Mrs Thatcher

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 09:24 AM

theres a sort of inevitability about the abuse Steve. racist, dopey liberal....as General Custer said , i feel it in my gonads.

or perhaps thats just balls.

what is genuinely weird and unsustainable is the concentration of wealth in the south east of the country.

in Ripley, Derbyshire - Sainsbury's is regarded as agood job. the people on the checkouts are educated civil - they go home to reasonably priced homes that they pay a mortgage on.

go down to Slough - they need desperately the immigrants to work on the checkouts. they can't speak English. god alone knows how they pay for a place to live with the 'homes under the hammer gang' property speculating like mad in the background.

thats the situation -if the wealth of the country were more evenly spread we could take a more realistic and sensible view of our labour requirements, and how many immigrants we could sustain.
we need a better infrastructure and incentives for firms to locate outside the tory triangle.

the tories won't be thinking along those lines.

no doubt that view makes me a candidate for Britain First in some peoples view on this site. however i am a lifelong labour party supporter. i do not see my views as racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 09:45 AM

Excellent Home Secretary my fat bottom. She has presided over the very thing she claims as a major evil (I profoundly disagree with her, but on her own terms she's an abject failure). The shameful border controls fiasco of several years ago happened on her watch. With her fierce talk of protecting our borders, etc., she is pandering to her fellow Tory hard-liners on immigration and even more to the racists of UKIP and she has to keep one eye on Cameron's stupid hostage-to-fortune referendum. She is instituting extremely harsh measures for immigrants in her attempts to keep people out, many or even most of whom would be of great benefit to this country. Without immigration on a large scale, for example, the NHS would collapse. It's all political manoeuvring with hardly a thought as to the best interests of this country. Immigration has never been a burden and need never be, as long as we decide to adapt to what is as plain as the noses on our faces, that mass migration is here to stay, and that we'd better get used to the idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 09:52 AM

.. ironically [yes - checked with Alanis Morissette - think I'm using it correctly...]

ironically, a large proportion of migrants may very well be potential tory voters.... 😬

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Stu
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 10:19 AM

"She has been an excellent Home secretary"

Yer wot? Under her supervision the immigration she was rallying so vehemently against in her speech to the faithful has gone through the self-imposed roof of her own manifesto. Her policies have failed utterly. The prisons are in an appalling state, the roads are falling to bits and the infrastructure can't cope.

Her speech yesterday was a joke; she pretended as if her not insignificant failures had never happened. Truth is, at these conferences she could have come on stage and performed a rendition of "This Little Piggy" by farting and they would have cheered.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 10:32 AM

I fail to see how Akenaton can describe himself as a socialist.

The Conservative party conference has revealed plans to drive the poor further into poverty, while the economists say that austerity has failed to produce economic improvement, and tax cuts for the rich and for international capitalists continue.

The poor who fail to force their children to the schools filleted and driven to failure by Gove are to face deductions of fines directly from their benefits - while (for example) G4S get given government contracts while accountants magic their profits out of the UK to avoid UK tax - yet the government will not tax them at source.

The elderly face cuts now on the cynical basis that by the next election they will be dead or too senile to remember who took their money away.

Hunt proposes that UK workers should be driven to greater poverty to compel them to work like the Chinese - who have suicide nets outside their factories and where salespeople who fail their targets are forced to crawl in public.

Plans are leaked to halve the number of beds in the NHS - while statistics from the US show that medical bills are implicated in 60% of US bankruptcies.

As for housing - councils and housing associations face plans to make them sell at huge discounts properties they have built and which house tenants at rents that do not contain a profit element (in effect making them give away money to the property speculators who will finish up owning the houses and rack renting them) - and proposals for "affordable housing" to replace it will create houses that will need a salary of £50,000 pa outside London and £75,000 pa inside London.

Then there are the proposals on council tax - which will give the richest councils more money and take money away from the poorest who most need it for social purposes.

And Trident - roundly condemned by the senior military as useless (and which needs US consent and codes to be used - some "independent deterrent" - planned to be kept in some bizarre international nuclear willy-waving contest and useless against the current waves of theocratic international disruption of civilisation. It doesn't even deter anything - compare the number of times that the non-nuclear Switzerland has recently been invaded.

Then there are the headline grabbing lies - for example that Corbyn called Gaddafi's death but not 9/11 a tragedy - he quite simply did not say that. His words are out there. He said the failure to bring Gaddafi to justice and try him was a tragedy and also said that 9/11 was a tragedy.

Then there's Johnson, calling protesters pierced and tattooed crusties. Look at the pictures. A simple lie based on prejudice.

And IDS - forever calling abject failure a success, ducking and diving frantically to hide how many deaths he has caused.

And the calls for the disabled to earn more by work - calls from the same government that culled Remploy.

I could go on but need to stop.

Finally we come back to Cameron - demanding respect. His total failure over the last government and a bit is no basis for him to be respected. Rather he and Sniffing Gideon (and his lies about the "economic success" that only he and his cronies can see) have earned the contempt and hatred of every right-thinking person.


Perhaps this will be the subterranean movement that will finally unleash the tsunami against these rogues and thieves - now that the dead tree media and right-wing TV can be bypassed. When the people realise how roundly they have been betrayed surely their revenge will be unstoppable.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 10:37 AM

You've got to admit it, the Tories are working hard on making this country one no-one would wish to migrate to if they weren't desperate. The trouble for that being people are that desperate.

But maybe given time the strategy will succeed. We've got one minister, Jeremy Hunt, explaining how taking thousands of pounds a year from the working poor will encourage them to work harder, like Chinese workers in sweatshops, and Ian Duncan Smith justifying cuts as a way of setting up a Chinese model two-child family society (though of course not for the well-off), and a think tank calling for cuts to pensioner's help, on the basis that a lot won't be alive by the next election, so there's no need to fret about losing their votes, and with luck a lot will have lost their marbles, and won't remember who brought in the cuts.

Yes. the Nasty Party is back in the open once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 10:40 AM

Labour and Lib Dems agree that immigration needs to be greatly reduced.
Whoever owns the houses, there are already not enough for everybody, and the population grows much faster than it is possible to build them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 10:54 AM

Dear Dopey

Migrants, on average, benefit our economy by about £500 per year, each.

There are MANY vacant houses, almost all capable of being restored - albeit many in some impoverished places although the drive and innovation of many migrants would doubtless go a considerable distance to revitalising those impoverished places.

All that needs to be done is to tax the rich (and international money-smugglers) and spend wisely.

How long did the housing programme after WWII take to get rolling? There are dozens of designs for pod housing, pop-up housing, containerised hosing. It's not about CANNOT build - it's about WILL NOT build.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 12:06 PM

So there is no "housing crisis."
Look it up Richard.

The benefit or otherwise to the economy is disputed.
It depends how you try to calculate it.
All three parties say immigration is much too high.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 12:57 PM

May was half right which is what makes her dangerous.

Generally there is a net benefit from migration BUT there are social and logistical problems over sudden surges of mass migration.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,Kampervan
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 01:02 PM

Judging by David Cameron's speech today Jeremy Corbyn has got him very rattled.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 01:13 PM

Stu, you can hardly blame Mrs May for the rise in immigration, she has absolutely no power to stop immigration from inside the EU.

Richard, I have said that I disagree with 90% of Tory policy, but I believe their change of tack on unregulated immigration is right. If a bit late , considering Mr Farage has been telling them about it for the last five years.

Do you still think he is a racist and a bigot, now that all political Parties agree with his assessment?

Guest, according to the Home Secretary, there is absolutely no net benefit to the exchequer from the present rates of immigration.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,English Voter
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 01:32 PM

I never cease to be amazed at the pure hatred that 'socialists' have for anyone who doesn't share their view of the world. As a member of the self interested majority in this country, I'm happy that we have a Tory government again and, thanks to Labour's tendency to self destruct every couple of decades, will probably have one for many years to come.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 01:45 PM

The people you see here guest are not "socialists"
I am a "socialist" who recognises some good is social conservatism, and some idiocy in "liberal" ideology.

A true socialist hates no one, but is dedicated to the dismantling of the Capitalist socio/economic system, poverty and worthlessness.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 02:11 PM

'Hate' is a bit of a a vague unfocused fluffy kinda word... like 'nice'... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 02:18 PM

i think the wat you express yourself Ake, polarises opinion.

no one wants the low wage economy except the tories - so they may cccasionally flash their knickers at the ant-immigration lobby (as Thatcher famously did to get the NF vote). but really the more immigrants and the lowlier the status of the working men suits them down to the ground.

the fight is not about conservatism and liberalism.   or even really about immigration.

its about running this country on a sustainable and business like basis.

we have lived through an age of galloping pragmatism, and the old horse ain't what it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 02:35 PM

.. and before petty tory diehards accuse 'us' on the broad spectrum from centre to left of being 'haters'..

maybe they should consider that pure toryism lacks 'love' for anyone else but themselves and their own pockets... 😣

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 03:12 PM

There was plenty of hate spewed by Porky in his speechto the Self-Servative Conference today.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 03:40 PM

'the people you see on here are are not socialists......i am a socialist'

forgetting for a moment how you define and express your politics, akenaton, this is a massively arrogant and dangerously fanatical statement.

you know nothing about how i or others here live their lives. as for 'hate' speech- i have never indulged in abusing anyone (er ....apart from the above obviously....) as a union rep, i have to deal with and sometimes represent people who i profoundly disagree with, while also liking them. (eg if i went around calling ukip types racist or ignorant, i wouldn't last long -not noble tolerance, just self-preservation!)

however, i must admit i do hate tories, arms dealers, gun nuts, and any other psychopathic greedy fuckers who are wrecking all that is good about our country and the world. should any of that lot turn up in the pub, i would of course be off my high moral horse. however, these are the guys in control who manipulate and divide all the rest of us - i can't sensibly dislike anyone who is a victim of media lies and oppressive governments.

don't forget it is the 1% against the rest of us - we might squabble on here but we are are all, potentially, on the same side.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:04 PM

I laugh because we have another 4.5 years of Tory government, by which time there will be less of an opposition than there is now, then we will have another 5 years of Tory government, and other 5 years, and another 5 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:24 PM

boko - are you feeling alright? should someone near you be calling an ambulance?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:29 PM

Don't agree Achmelvich, we will never abolish poverty and give all a stake in society until financial aspiration is removed from the equation.

I don't see another person here proposing the abolition of capitalism, although all seem to agree that resources are finite and the planet becomes more polluted daily by the search for wealth and power.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:30 PM

Laughter at the Croydon Conservative Club

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:34 PM

ok.. we abolish capitalism 12.00 noon tomorrow.. agreed.. there.. job done...

Right then tory capitalists, you are given fair notice.
Behave yourselves from tomorrow lunchtime. share your wealth.. and be generally nicer to people....😇

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 04:41 PM

Unfortunately its not that easy PFR   :0(

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 05:00 PM

of course it isn't easy - but we have to try surely?

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 05:45 PM

while i'm having one of my sporadic rants on here (rest assured i will get annoyed and leave for a while again soon) can i just say - this is ridiculous and totally unnecessary what is happening to our country. can't we at least try to emulate the more progressive and successful (mostly) northern european countries? do we have to slavishly follow the worst aspects of the usa warmongers?
just back from visiting our daughter who is a printer in estonia and was struck first - by how cheap, and enjoyable, the football was (go fc flora!) how positive the people are, who have suffered greatly. a usually tragic (independent for 40 of its 800 year history) country is doing its best to progress, while our government strives to take us back to some victorian wage slave economy. come on people - we can do better than this. either a revolution is just round the corner or we are truly fucked by fascists. and their pathetic supporters....

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 08:19 PM

Overwhelmingly immigrants are intelligent hard-working adults with abilities they have developed as they grew up in their countries of origin. They come here like a gift to our society.

Of course they need things like houses and schools and medical services and so forth but among them are the people to provide all those things, builders, teachers, doctors and nurses, and all the other skills.

But we have fallen down so badly in the way we organise our society that those skills don't get used as they could be. And the reason for that is an economic and political system that is functionally and morally insane.

Subject: RE: BS: Tory party conference
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 15 - 08:19 PM

Overwhelmingly immigrants are intelligent hard-working adults with abilities they have developed as they grew up in their countries of origin. They come here like a gift to our society.

Of course they need things like houses and schools and medical services and so forth but among them are the people to provide all those things, builders, teachers, doctors and nurses, and all the other skills.

But we have fallen down so badly in the way we organise our society that those skills don't get used as they could be. And the reason for that is an economic and political system that is functionally and morally insane.