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DTStudy: Nero's Expedition |
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Subject: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:41 AM This is an edited DTStudy thread NERO'S EXPEDITION (Moondog) Nero's expedition up the Nile Failed .... Because the water hyacinths .. Had clogged the river Denying Nero's vessels passage Through the Sud of Nubia ...... @round filename[ NEROSEXP TUNE FILE: NEROSEXP CLICK TO PLAY MC
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Oct 15 - 03:48 AM Amos and I have been visiting Dani Black in North Carolina since the Getaway. Dani's housemate is a young woman who sings at the drop of a hat - our kinda people. She's been trying to come up with songs that I don't know, and today she stumped me with Nero's Expedition. Mark Cohen posted the lyrics at Mudcat years ago, and the song has been included in the Digital Tradition. Was it really written by Moondog? Anybody have alternate versions to post? Here's Mark's post:
Posted By: Mark Cohen 08-Jan-02 - 04:24 AM Thread Name: BS: The Invasion of the Manatees Subject: RE: BS: The Invasion of the Manatees
I knew there was a reason I'd been avoiding this thread...but here's my chance to turn it into a musical one! Seems there would have been a call for manatees in ancient Egypt, as evidenced by this round, which was created by Moondog, evidently after reading a history book while in an altered state of consciousness:
Here's an interesting citation from Historical Dictionary of Ancient and Medieval Nubia, by Richard A. Lobban, Jr. [Scarecrow Press, 2003, page 280]:
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Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 08 Oct 15 - 09:45 AM I thought water hyacinths came from South America. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,# Date: 08 Oct 15 - 11:03 AM Eichhornia crassipes In "The Nile: Biology of an Ancient River" edited by Julian Rzoska (1976) says that the plant wasn't introduced to Africa until 1912. That info was on p. 317 or 318. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,# Date: 08 Oct 15 - 11:30 AM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIbtgO_QpKI Moondog doing it there. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: CupOfTea Date: 08 Oct 15 - 12:03 PM How most incredibly cool to learn about this! Perhaps more incredible is that I still have the melody, with significant rests, correct after not hearing it for decades. I believe I was first introduced to this in the 80s, when Dick Swain hosted some singing sessions at his home in Cleveland. I am not as sure who taught it, but think it was Becky Hill, at that time a Storyteller and dance Caller, as the most challenging round ever. I suspect the only other time I was exposed to it was a late night session at Augusta. It stuck so solidly, that early in my time of doing panels of bead embroidery, I created a triangular piece with a reed boat up against a river full of flowers that are like water lilies, because I couldn't find what a water hyacinth looked like. (remember when you didn't have the web to find out things ?) The other part of the inspiration was some small porcelain beads that looked like ancient Egyptian ones, so the whole thing was done in those matte finish pastel beads, with some scarab beads at the points. I'd sing it to people who inquired about the piece. I sold it years before digital photography, so don't have anything but slides of it. It is so reassuring to find I'm not alone in remembering this jazzy round! Now if I only had som folks to sing it with... Joanne in Cleveland |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 08 Oct 15 - 01:34 PM The recording quality leaves something to be desired, but this is a very interesting performance of the song at the Florida Renaissance Festival: This is a good teaching video: and the full version from the same source:Oh, and here's a marvelous production by the Daedelus Ensemble: One more, a great group of young people: Oh, and as a bonus, here's a great video of the White Nile: I took a cruise from Luxor to Aswan, and saw parts of the river at Cairo and Abu Simbel. It was beautiful, but I did not see much wildlife. Photos (click) |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 09 Oct 15 - 10:32 AM Thank you for the links, Joe and #. I couldn't make any sense of the written notation, but now that I've heard people sing it, I think it's a good song. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 10 Oct 15 - 12:33 AM Wikipedia says water hyacinths were introduced in Africa in the mid-20th century. The species, native to the Amazon, has become a problem in Africa. Looks like Moondog may have been anachronistic, but it's still a good song. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 10 Oct 15 - 03:03 AM It is also a problem in your area Joe. www.dbw.parks.ca.gov/BoaterInfo/WaterHyacinth.aspx Sincerely, Gargoyle It is so thick in some areas no one would swim again. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 10 Oct 15 - 06:37 PM Somebody should figure out how to digest it and make methane for fuel. Nobody would miss it. |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Oct 15 - 03:37 AM Oh, you betcha, garg. My wife went kayaking on a lake north of Lake Tahoe last week. The State Parks Department provided free kayaks, so outside kayaks wouldn't contaminate the water with hyacinths or snails or any number of contaminants. Those lakes are beautiful, but they're very, very fragile. Apparently, water hyacinths have also become a major problem on the Upper Nile in recent years, but not in Nero's time. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: ChanteyLass Date: 11 Oct 15 - 08:48 PM I have that on a cassette somewhere, I think recorded by The Short Sisters--but I could be wrong about that! |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Oct 15 - 11:46 PM Yes, it was recorded by the Short Sisters. Never being one to miss a bargain, I bought all four of their CDs at the Getaway. "Nero's Expedition" is on their 1995 Live from Four States CD. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: Stevebury Date: 15 Oct 15 - 10:25 PM I learned 'Nero's Expedition' years ago, I don't remember where from. But it became a staple of our rounds-singing group. The song was written by Louis Hardin (Moondog) and issued on the LP "Moondog II" (Columbia Records, KC 30897, 1971), along with 25 other rounds and canons. These were re-issued on the CD "Moondog" (CBS, MK 44994). The LP liner notes (remember when LPs had large inserted liner notes?) include notation for all of the rounds (or "madrigals" as Moondog chose to call them). The version I learned from oral tradition (and which is posted in Mudcat) differs from what Moondog wrote in several ways. It was hard to unlearn the version I first learned and to re-learn it the way Moondog wrote it. What Moondog wrote differs from the version on Mudcat in the following ways: Notes: measure 1 -- E natural; G natural (!) measure 4 -- no A flat measure 7 -- G natural; E natural Rhythm: eighth notes not triplets in measures 1, 4, 5, 7 measure 2 -- quarter, quarter, half (not syncopated) measure 3 -- whole note measure 5 -- half note on beats 1 and 2 measure 7 -- first beat is an eighth rest plus eighth note (i.e. not tied over from measure 6) measure 8 -- syncopated: half plus eighth, and dotted quarter measure 11 -- last note is a half note. The version played at the Florida Renaissance Festival (link above) appears to match what Moondog wrote. Incidentally, Moondog spelled it 'sudd' not 'sud'. The definition I found is "Floating masses of vegetation that often obstruct navigation on the White Nile. (Arabic, obstruction, from 'sadda', to obstruct.)" |
Subject: RE: DTStudy: Nero's Expedition From: GUEST,Everett Howe Date: 18 Jul 16 - 10:24 AM I have a theory about how the anachronism about water hyacinths could have gotten into the song. I wrote about it here: https://humanistseminarian.com/2016/07/16/neros-expedition-up-the-nile/ |
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