BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 06:01 AM

Jim, on 6th October you claimed Ben Gurion wrote it.
Next day you claimed he said it in a CBS interview.
Later that same day you admitted for the first time that it only appeared, unauthenticated, in that obscure memoir.

The obscure author died in 1982 aged 87.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 05:52 AM

"Jim, for someone who purports to be a socialist, you really seem to have no grasp of reality."
As a socialist, I wouldn't suggest that fascists are in any way acceptable as rulers of countries in a million years - as you just have - National Socialists maybe, nothing to do with my socialism - obviously yours.
I was brought up in a world where socialists died fighting fascism (my father risked his life and was wounded and imprisoned for doing so - others took to the streets to drive the fascist Blackshirts back into their rat-holes).
Your socialism is not mine and I would find it difficult to give an example of other socialists with your outlook on life
For "realist" read "expediency to suit Western interests".
"Google can not find it."
You can't find it, you mean, even though you have been give reference to it.
No comment on the "obscure book by the obscure author - thought not!!
You have who Goldmann is (quoted first in Haaretz), you have the quote.
If you can't do better than this 'running round like a headless chicken to appease Israel's terrorism' act, piss of and let the adults discuss the subject in hand.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 05:31 AM

Jim, for someone who purports to be a socialist, you really seem to have no grasp of reality.


A real socialist never tries to fool himself. We must be realists first and foremost.

From an economic standpoint a socialist must realise and explain that in changing the economic system, many people are going to be financially worse off......people like you, the soft left, are in denial, no one believes a word you say.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 05:23 AM

It did. it was reported to have been made.....
Really?
Google can not find it.

This is where YOU finally admitted it came form.
"As quoted in The Jewish Paradox : A personal memoir (1978) by Nahum Goldmann (translated by Steve Cox), p. 99."

(I would call that obscure)

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 05:09 AM

" that the quote appeared in Haaretz."
It did. it was reported to have been made to during an interview with Nahum Goldmann - a Zionist supporter of Israel's cause whose Zionist credentials are impeccable, and recalled in his memoirs - certainly not "obscure"
Nahum_Goldmann
The only challenge are blog by unknown bloggers
Any chance you will piss off now?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 04:58 AM

Congratulations Keith - you are the only person on this planet to have claimed this quote to have been a fake - that's got to be a first for Mudcat!!

Jim, you first claimed (just weeks ago on world order thread) that the quote appeared in Haaretz.
When challenged, you said he made it in an interview.
Challenged again, and you admitted it only appeared, unauthenticated, in an obscure book by an obscure author.

Google "ben gurion stolen land" as I suggested and you will see I am not alone in questioning it.

Here is a genuine, authenticated Ben Gurion quote,

"Under no circumstances must we touch land belonging to fellahs or worked by them. Only if a fellah leaves his place of settlement, should we offer to buy his land, at an appropriate price.
Written statement (1920), as quoted in Teveth, Shabtai (1985), Ben-Gurion and the Palestinian Arabs: From Peace to War, Oxford University Press."

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Nov 15 - 03:21 AM

"It's not a question of letting Assad off the hook."
Yes you are Mac - and I am afraid what will happen if Assad is allowed to stay, what you are saying here will be used to leave him in charge "war is war and bad things happen".
Assad was carrying out atrocities against his people and committing against humanity long before the war began - part of the reasons for the protests was the torture chambers, the arrest without trial of opponents, the mass murders and the lack of democracy.
The West were aware of this and (Britain particularly) treated him as a friend and refused to do anything about it - he was a mass murderer long before he became a war criminal.
Why try the Nazis once peace had been achieved?
"Remove the dictators and you have chaos."
May thanks for confirming a long-held suspicion Ake.
Dictatorship is fascism pure and simple - the forcible imposition of the wishes of the State over that of the people.
The idea that some people are not fit for democracy and need a dictator to rule them adds a racist tinge to the argument.
Wow - you've finally said what you mean - thanks!!
Thank god that "fact" will never sink into the perception of most people on Mudcat - nor, hopefully - into that of the majority of the people of the planet.
People of my generation can think of six million reasons why it never will.
"I have proof that the quote originated in a book written years later"
Congratulations Keith - you are the only person on this planet to have claimed this quote to have been a fake - that's got to be a first for Mudcat!!
Not even the Israeli regime has bothered to do that - their response was to place Ben Gurion's papers out of reach of the general public.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 07:15 PM

The problem here is that a few people seem to think that "protesters" in the Middle East and North Africa walk about with little boards around their necks saying "Assad Out", "No more of this sort of thing"

There may be a handful of genuine protesters but that handful must be raving mad.....The regime thinks they are terrorists and the terrorists think they are useful idiots who will certainly be butchered after the regime falls.
Syria, Iraq, Libya, are not like dear old England, they are awash with arms and inhabited by people who are willing to exterminate everyone who refuses to accept their views.

These countries can only be run by hard dictators, they may evolve into democracy.....but not as we know it "Jim".

Remove the dictators and you have chaos....how many times must it happen before that fact sinks into the Mudcat perception.
It's about time the cold war was forgotten and some co operation shown between the great powers...

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 06:04 PM

It's not a question of letting Assad off the hook. He's not on the hook. He,s carrying out a vicious campaign, in which enormous numbers of innocent civilians are being killed, in the same way as the British did in the last war, the Americans did in Vietnam and both have done in Iraq.

There are any number of people I'd love to see on trial for war crimes - but acting realistically to end the war in Syria has to be the priority, and if that means accepting that Assad is not giing to be put on trial at this time,, that's what has to be done.

It may indeed be true that the opposition includes freedom-loving, democracy-minded anti-sectarians. But it also includes some who are none of those things. The news today carried images of civilian women and children Alawites in metal cages being taken through the streets to be used as human shields in rebel held areas. And that wasn't in Isis controlled tterritory.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 03:26 PM

- if you have any proof that Ben Gurion's QUOTE is a fake - please produce it -

I have proof that the quote originated in a book written years later, the author claiming to remember it being said but with no supporting evidence or corroboration from anyone else that it was ever said by anyone.
Fake or genuine, the quote is his understanding of the Palestinian view and not his own, so what point are you making with it anyway?

The authenticity is questioned by many.
Google "ben gurion stolen land"

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 03:13 PM

"The refugees ghave fled fripon the war, "
The protests showd that Assad's terror was not going to stop and his response, particularly Homs showed the lengths he was prepared to got to to crush opposition.
Please don't get him off the hook and make him less of a monstar than he was - he is fighting his own people - the ones who fought for better conditions and an end to his terror.
He is a war criminal and if he is let off the hook he will continue with his slaughter - simple as that.
Piss off Keith - if you have any proof that Ben Gurion's QUOTE is a fake - please produce it - or somebody who
has even claimed it to be a fake - apart from yourself
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 03:05 PM

The refugees ghave fled fripon the war, not specifically from Assad. If a negotiated peace can include a guarantee of free elections, properly monitoored, with the refugees having votes, that could ensure a safer envirobment allowing people to return home.
............

In no way did the UN "give" Israel most of the territory it hold on to today.

In any case, if the UN were to "give" Hertfordshire to, say, exiled Syrians, to set up a new country, would you regard that as a fair title of ownership? Palestine didn't belong to the UN, any more than it belonged to Britain when the Balfour Declaration was issued.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 02:44 PM

Yes he did Keith - you've been given it and you said (without evidence) that it was a fake.

You claimed it was said in an interview.
It was not.
One person in a book written years later claimed to remember him saying it, but there is no-one else in the whole world who corroborates it.

You claim it, so you should provide evidence that he really said it.
Good luck with that.

Your reliance on such apocryphal "quotes" shows how hopelessly weak your case is.

Why would he say they had stolen the land?
The UN gave it to them nearly 70 years ago!

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 01:44 PM

Against an enemy like ISIS there is no alternative.

The Syrian regime aided by Russian and American air power is the only possible way of liquidating them.

America must get its personnel out of the way in double quick time.

As Sanity says, where are the moderate rebels? are they the same "moderates" who murdered Gaddafi in cold blood and reduced Libya to a jungle.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 09:09 AM

Carroll, have you tried mood stabilizers to manage your anger and hatred. Perhaps a low dose of something like Seroquel maybe?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 09:03 AM

Let's have a rousing chorus, shall we?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 08:39 AM

Yes he did Keith - you've been given it and you said (without evidence) that it was a fake.
Not going to waste any more time on atrocity deniers like yourself - you want to show us that the Israeli regime are goodies, explain the massacres and atrocities - "they said they didn't do nuffin'" doesn't hack it - we saw the pictures of last years' massacres and destruction on tele - pictures really don't tell lies - not like atrocity deniers anyway.
Now go away and talk to David Irving - he might be able to help you polish up your act.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 08:17 AM

More or less how David Beg Gurion described the State of Israel - built on stolen land, but chosen by God to do what they did

He did not say any such thing.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Nov 15 - 06:09 AM

"Continuing war will indeed ensure continuing flights of refugees."
Catch 22 it is then.
Can't continue the war because of more refugees, but if Assad is allowed to retain power, more massacres and torture plus the present refugees can only return to face the same.
Hmmmm!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 10:18 PM

"Continuing war will indeed ensure continuing flights of refugees."

If that wasn't said by Orwell it should've been.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 07:58 PM

Unless the Security Council approves it, any military incursions into Syria without the agreement of the Syrian government is illegal. No ifs and buts and perhapses.

That doesn't mean it might not happen. It does mean that its outcome is bound to be disastrous, in the same way as the illegal invasion of Iraq, and the arguably legal operation in Libya to overthrow the regime - or for tgat matter the legal but still disastrous war in Afghanistan.

Continuing war will indeed ensure continuing flights of refugees. Negotiations without any preconditions are the only way it can end, unless with Russian support Assad can defeat the various oppositions which are fighting each other as well as the government.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 05:16 PM

Perhaps Obama wants to one-up his predecessor by handing off not two, but three wars to the next President....

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 02:43 PM

I asked before, "and we're supporting WHO???"...and the subject got quickly changed...the fact is, the battle lines have been drawn, but who is on what side for whom, because the way this is being reported vs. what is PERCEIVED as a 'policy', makes no sense whatsoever...UNLESS there is a different, well hidden agenda. We're sending almost 50 spec ops forces, to allegedly, train a splinter group, to overthrow Syria, who is being backed by the Russians, and allegedly at odds with Iran, is ISIS and blah blah blah. Perhaps some of you, may consider taking your heads out from colon inspection posture, and find the one common ground, that the battle lines are drawn between,
Hint: What does Israel have in common with Russia??...and even Syria??..as opposed to the U.S. interests, and why?
The answer to that, defines the battle lines...or should I say the well hidden agenda driven battle lines.....

THINK!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 02:01 PM

"For "difficult" read "impossible".£
In which case, we'd better get used to the fact that millions of Syrian refugees with by hammering on the doors of Western Countries for at least the rest of my lifetime.
Letting Assad stay in power is not even a partial solution
"To call it a terrorist state with a religious agenda is simply another one your typical antisemitic slurs"
More or less how David Beg Gurion described the State of Israel - built on stolen land, but chosen by God to do what they did - can't get a more authoritative opinion than that - which is why the Israelis have put his papers out-of-bounds.
It is Antisemitic to equate Israeli behaviour with the Jewish people as a whole - but then again, you know that.
Don't get tired of trolling - Bearded Bruce - you don't even have the nouse to hide your identity?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:50 PM

"recieve $79.95 in cash."

Or if you'd rather, receive.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:35 PM

Canada has had a similar training mission underway since over a year ago. We have about 70 special warfare troops (and they likely require 500 other troops to support them) training Peshmerga fighters. The first person to do an accurate chart of who's fighting and who's supporting whom will win a three-day all expenses paid vacation to the Puzzle Palace or in lieu of the vacation the winner may elect to recieve $79.95 in cash.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:33 PM

Israel is very much a part of the problems of the Middle East and a terrorist State with nuclear weapons and a religious agenda makes it a dangerous one

Israel's very existence is a problem to it's antisemitic Muslim neighbours and, it seems, to some of the posters here.

To call it a terrorist state with a religious agenda is simply another one your typical antisemitic slurs. If you want to see terrorist states with religious agendas just look around Israel's neighbourhood .

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:21 PM

put the situation into the hands of the U.N. - difficult with Russia and China's veto, but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.

For "difficult" read "impossible". After what happened with the UN go ahead in Libya, in which a very carefully limited approval got hijacked, and turned into a full-blooded air campaign to force regime change, Russia is not going to be tricked in that way again. The alternative may not bear thinking about, but it's going to have to be a case of grin and bear to think about it anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:00 PM

"Removing Assad from power especially in advance of any negotiations"
Need to do what they've done in the pat in such circumstances - put the situation into the hands of the U.N. - difficult with Russia and China's veto, but the alternative doesn't bear thinking about.
"So why did you bring Netanyahu into the convo?"
Probasbly for the same reason as you brought in Judea and Samaria (not part of Syria to my recollection)
Israel is very much a part of the problems of the Middle East and a terrorist State with nuclear weapons and a religious agenda makes it a dangerous one - the other sie of the coin to Isis (except Isis Doesn't have a bomb yet - early days!!)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 12:45 PM

Why did I bring Tony Blair in for that matter? To make my point their are plenty of people walking free who should be put on trial for alleged war crimes. Netanyahu is another. Of course, innocent until proved guilty applies in all cases. Perhaps he might get found not guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 12:07 PM

It might be better to focus on Syria for now.

So why did you bring Netanyahu into the convo? Oh wait, your posting history answers that.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 11:47 AM

It might be better to focus on Syria for now.

Removing Assad from power especially in advance of any negotiations (and in fact it's a regime, not just one man) just isn't an option, without the overthrow of the government by the opposition - in which the only really effective bunch are really Isis and al Qaeda, or by outsiders. (Apart from the Kurds) Which really isn't on. (Even if it was the precidents of Iraq and Libya aren't exactly promising.)

It's not going to happen, and insisting on it merely guarantees the war cobtinues, or that Assad, with Russian support, defeats the whole bunch of opposition, including Isis.

It would be possible to negotiate round aims such as supervised elections, including the exiles- who of course the regime is not in a position to control. In fact that's been offered and rejected so far. The thing is, the Russians exert a lot of influence, and peace is very much in their interests, and Assad is probably dispensible to them. There are people in the opposition who likely would come on board for a settlement.

An outright victory for the opposition, even if possible, would be likely to end in something akin to Libya, with sectarian extremists running the show in so far as anyone ran it.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 11:44 AM

it's all on record.

Lol....whose record, yours and your ilk's?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 11:29 AM

"That is not happening in Israel."
Yes it most certainly is - even the Israeli moderates are referring to what is happening as "an Apartheid State".
Nuff said - not nausing up a thread with this shit - it's all on record.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 11:13 AM

It is, however, the avowed policy of the proposed future Muslim state in the disputed territories of Judea and Samaria.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 10:57 AM

Ethnically cleansing a people who have occupied a country for millenia in order to create a monotheistic State is.

That is not happening in Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 10:48 AM

"Defending against terrorist attacks is not a crime."
Ethnically cleansing a people who have occupied a country for millenia in order to create a monotheistic State is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 10:44 AM

If it isn't agreed that Assad will be removed from office and stand trial for his crimes, the situation will revert back to where it was, he will take revenge on those who opposed him and all those who died will have done so in vain - Russia will make sure of that.
This is guaranteed to strengthen the support for Isis - or any such group that follows - them - ongoing terrorism fuelled by disaffection.
The Syrian people are not in the position that the Serbs were - opposition has been virtually removed from Syria by four and a half years of armed conflict and the State terrorism that preceded it.
You can bet you life that, once Isis has ceased to become a threat to the West and its interests, the situation of the Syrian people will be about as relevant to The West as it was prior to the War - total abandonment of them to their fate at the hands of Assad.
Do you honestly believe that Assad will allow the 4 million refugees to return to Syria should he remain in power?
Not to put him on trial will be politically and economically convenient for the West, except, of course, we will still have the refugee crisis to cope with - would you go back to what they have left?
Putting him on trial is certainly not a separate matter; it's very much a part of reaching a long-term solution - for the benefit of the Syrians and of the world as a whole.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 10:35 AM

Nor has Netanyahu....

Defending against terrorist attacks is not a crime.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 09:58 AM

I'm all for putting Assad on trial, but that's a separate matter. The military campaign against Serbia that brought a halt to the war with Bosnia wasn't carried on until Milosevic was removed from office or surrendered for trial. The Serbs themselves took care of removing him from power, well after the end of fighting. Tony Blair still hasn't been put on trial. Nor has Netanyahu, and loads more. It's an imperfect worrld.

Insisting that Assad has to step down before there can be any attempt to make peace is just a way of making sure the war continues.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 06:53 AM

"But the evidence is that it had majority support."
So what - atrocitis are atrocities
I'm sure those in former Yugoslavia who committed the atrocities they did had majority support - didn't stop them being tried for war crimes.
Did't the Nazis have majority support from the German people for a time?
No side in any war comes out with "clean hands"
It would be reasonable if it is decided to prosecute any side for war crimes carried out during the fighting, but Assad's crimes go far beyond those.
The Civil War was a direct result of Assad's brutal suppression of legitimate peaceful protests, and prior to that, at least a decade of imprisonment, torture and mass murder committed by his opponents in peacetime
It is both facile and unfair to compare Assad and his opponents.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 05:36 AM

Assad,s regime has evintly been responsible for brutally repressing opposition. But the evidence is that it had majority support. Those opposing it included not merely democrats, but also a significant element of sectarian fanatics, and these have been the most effective in the conflict. That includes those who emerged as Isis and also those affiliated to al Quaeda.

It's a horrible messy civil war, and no one has clean hands.

The decision whether Assad should go is one that has ti lie with the people of Syria, not imposed by outsiders, who haven't got clean hands either.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 04:57 AM

Stim,

It was the overthrow of Mosaddegh that Raparee questioned, not whether Iran was better under the Shah or Khomeni. This was at the behest of Britain and the USA, we (the British) were at least as guilty as the USA. And the reason was, as ever, oil interests. I think there is no question that Iran would be a better place had this democratic government been allowed to continue. As for whether the Shah was better or worse than Khomeni, well thats a difficult question.

At some stage in all this, the UK and US decided that in the centuries old, poorly understood, and probably irresolvable conflict between Sunni and Shia Islam, the west would support the Sunnis. Hence the support for Saddam's Iraq in the war against Iran, hence the continuing military support for the feudal monarchy of Saudi Arabia. That decision now seems to be over simplistic at best.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 04:52 AM

Untrue Guest, the UK and France also recognise "good" terrorists.

The "good" terrorists are those who assist them to achieve their goals.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM

"In fact, as has now become clear, much of the opposition were and are ruthless sectarian fanatics, and Assad had majority support"
Simplistic in the extreme i'm afraid Mac.
The Assad family have been imprisoning, torturing and 'disappearing' opposition to its regime for decades - the West have been fully aware of this, certainly since the Amnesty report was published several years prior to the Arab Spring protests - that report contained descriptions of systematic arrests, torture of those arrested and then killing of anybody opposing the Syrian Government - it was this that largely led to the protests, which were brutally put down, Homs being the most memorable.
The protests were peaceful and were put down by extreme force, so much so that the U.N. made a move to intervene - vetoed by China and Russia.
The West refused to intervene, the slaughter continued and developed into civil war.
Inaction on the part of the West led to international disaffection by Muslims, who volunteered to support the opposition - Isis became part of this and came to prominence from the indifference of the West to the plight of the Syria people at the hands of Assad.
It would be appalling if Assad were to come out of this with clean hands and allowed to return to his old ways - where that to happen, the slaughter of his opponents would be unimaginable.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 04:21 AM

It must be only the US that recognises good and bad terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 01:50 AM

So Raparee, do you think that the overthrow of the Shah made Iran a better place?

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Nov 15 - 12:27 AM

GUEST: "The US "boots" are targeting ISIS, not Assad or the rebels..."

..according to who??
ISIS is targeting Assad, and the Russians, and we're supporting WHO???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 10:24 PM

Just think what things would have been like if France and Britain had, after WWI and WWII, treated the Arabs as they should have been. Dividing the Middle East among various ethnic and religious groups, instead of tossing every group into supergroups and calling them independent countries, could have prevented at least some of the violence and problems we see today.

And I do not forget that US CIA, at the request of MI6, overthrew the properly elected government of Mohammad Mosaddegh in Iran, which brought the Palevis to power, which...well, you know (or should).

Subject: RE: BS: US boots on the ground' in Syria.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Oct 15 - 08:13 PM

If they genuinely are merely targetting Isis, it ought in principle be possible to get the Syrian government to approve such involvement, and to get the Russians to lean on them to do so if need be. This would mean it was actually legal.

In the absence of consent by the Syrian government, or approval by the UN Security Council, this move is as illegal as the invasion of Iraq was.