BS: You are a student of what things?

Subject: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 08:17 AM

We all have been students and continue to be. We most likely share ongoing education in music and specifically folk music.
However in our lives we are students of many different things and disciplines. Some of these things may be in a professional capacity in which we are most invested and may create personal profit but may pale in contrast to another passionate ongoing interest of your own.
For a personal example;
14 years professional student of hypnotherapy, 25 years semi   professional student of the cello, 20 years student of fatherhood,
42 years student of cosmology, 50 years student of original art formats in painting and poetry. 8 years in various religious practices,, many years of being a student of Egyptology and archeological , geological interests.

Some of these studies were weaker than others but were fascinating at the time.


What are yours? I anticipate that folks like Rapaire (old avatar) could be interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 08:28 AM

If you undertake a list of you studentships, I believe you will find that five minutes after you hit submit the urge to add some very important learned accomplishments that you originally and perhaps unconsciously censored. Interesting...

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 09:43 AM

That is a very interesting question. I did have to think about it quite a lot. However, here goes; I have been a student (and teacher) of History for most of my life, especially social history. My academic background is in Mediaeval History. I am also very interested in Illuminated manuscripts, and the art of the Middle ages.
I have always loved music of all kinds but I really love opera. I collect books that relate to social history, and church architecture.
I read voraciously and am a huge admirer of Thomas Hardy, Virginia Woolf and W.B. Yeats, among others.
    I love pop music and still listen to it, I am a huge fan of Kate Bush and Joni Mitchell. I love Folk and never miss a day of playing my favourite folk cds.
    I suppose I could go on, but these are my major passions , all of which I have loved and enjoyed for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:04 AM

geology
English language
birds

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:15 AM

In no particular order -

Accordion
Anglo Concertina
Tai Chi
Grandparenting
Human nature
The Yorkshire Dales
UNIX

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:21 AM

...just noticed. After saying no particular order, it was nearly alphabetical. Not planned - Does that say something about me? :-)

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:31 AM

God, how could I forget..gardening and cooking !

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:32 AM

Medieval music
Bach
Mozart
Beethoven
Schumann
Tchaikovsky
Sibelius
Stravinsky
Ravel
Gershwin
Bernstein
Vaughan Williams
Everything else, paintings, statues, buildings, the lot
Archeology
Geology
Botany
Growing things
The almost boundless diversity, beauty and complexity of the living world
Evolution
Any science that hasn't got too-hard maths in it

I have some blind spots, among them Handel, Britten, Elgar, Copland (bloody awful), Bruckner, Berlioz, Chopin and jazz. And I've never willingly read a novel from end to end in my whole life. I find most of the poetry I read to be contrived and strained, though I have a soft spot for John Betjeman. I can see how good Shakespeare is but I dislike too much theatricality. And Tracy Emin and Damian Hirst can just get lost.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:33 AM

God yes, cooking!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 10:46 AM

approx 45 - 50 years keen student of popular culture and ladies private parts...

...apparently 30 years ago I was also an earnest mature student of politics, media, culture and ideology,
preparing to convert from completed first year of post grad diploma to an MA;
when protracted health and financial problems necessitated pressing the abort switch...

It was a case of turning my back on years of reading, research & thesis drafting,
and permanently shutting down higher intellectual functions,
or risk my mind completely imploding under external bleak pressures over which I felt I had no influence or control....

Funnily enough, even though I went a bit odder than usual for a few years,
I still helped 2 young lady friends pass their MAs during that dark interlude... 😕

The last book I managed to read all the way through was Robin Askwith's autobiography.....

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 12:29 PM

Did I really type archeology and not archaeology? I thought something didn't look right. I'm a bit of a student of such things, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 12:39 PM

Archiesology....

I'm a seriously very besotted student of "The Archies "... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: DMcG
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 01:15 PM

If you expect a student to have some level of expertise in a topic, I'm not sure I'd claim anything. On the other hand if you mean having some degree of interest there's not a lot I'd exclude.


Except sport. Sorry, but for me it does not compute. I see nothing of interest, purpose or value in any of it. I know most people do, so I have tried to 'get it', but no, nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 01:22 PM

Just watch a Liverpool match. Tsk.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 01:53 PM

Hio I have been aware of your erudite grasp of history for over many years.

Shaw Have you ever had a Mozart moment of epiphany when a certain performance revealed a truth about music like distant touching?

Funnily enough and punkfolkrocker go hand in hand

It sounds like it would be fun to know DAVE THE gnome

All; some of your favorite student studies I am incapable of due to a revere wiring of dyslexia that does make reading an effort exercise, speaking requiring much practice and writing almost effortless.
ie.learning foreign languages is for me impposible to a large degree.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 02:41 PM

I've had moments when Mozart or Beethoven (especially those two), in certain performances, have cut through the murk of life and given me a transcendent glimpse of something beyond ordinary experience, sure enough. I get that most frequently from Beethoven's more intimate chamber and instrumental music, especially the late piano music and late quartets. With Mozart, his greatest symphonies and concertos have public/private moments when he seems to reveal his soul. Try the slow movement of the Concerto in A, K488, or the first movement of the concerto in B flat, K595, in which the surface cheerfulness is punctured by moments of loss and resignation and a failure of nerve. Shuddering if you know how to listen. And do call me Steve. I won't go all cuddly on you, I promise.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Nov 15 - 02:43 PM

Music of ALL kinds, all styles and all periods: jazz, blues, traditional tunes, opera, funk, ragtime, rock'n roll, early country, early church music...

And instruments: blues harp, guitar, tenor guitar, mandolin, keyboards, bass guitar, Appalachian dulcimer, banjo (!), electric or acoustic...

And teaching guitar and tenor guitar - 400 videos on Youtube, many of them instructional...

Photography - first analog for 20+ years, then digital - combined with walking...

Websites...

Genealogy and local history...

Painting and drawing for many years, but nothing for 20 years..

And when all that gives me some spare time - there are the grandchildren!. Hurray!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 08:39 AM

Beer
Pickled eggs

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 09:15 AM

This is a lovely thread. I hope it lasts awhile. It is grand to hear from people whom you feel you had nothing in common with and often disagreed with, post here sharing the things about which they are passionate. Makes us all seem more human and perhaps, more understanding of each other. Anyway, thanks for starting this, very enjoyable.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,DrWord
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 10:25 AM

I agree, HiLo.
before reading this thread yesterday, I had been thinking of how some of the greatest experiences of my life, on a par with actual lived events, have been in the pages of fiction. Then Steve, with whom I seem to share several passions and interests, says he's never finished a novel! Other posters' sharing has been great, as HiLo said.
FWIW: lexicography, calligraphy, American Sign Language, labyrinths, fretted instruments, and music music music.
I'm with DMcG on the sports thing ~ my sentiments precisely! (sorry, Steve) I'm also blessed with great birdwatching territory, though that's more hobby than passion, likewise with stargazing. In the meantime…
keep on pickin'
dennis

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 03:24 PM

'student' suggests a bit of work. sometimes, i suppose, i have to make an effort to get to a proper pub and drink good beer, but it's (nearly) always worth it.
music, especially live music. i can't imagine anything better than a sunny day at a music festival with friends and beer and a top roots/ accoustic gig. but it's not work . (sorry, steve, i just cannot get going with classical music and i have tried a few times. it's the formality of it i think, and the showy-offy singing. i like a bit of surprise or ramshackleness (a trot not a stalinist!))
i do like to study people - whether it's just watching people go by (preferably from a beer tent at a music festival on a sunny afternoon) or working with all sorts of people or by reading loads of novels.
i love walking/birdwatching and going to live football but can hardly claim to be a student, i rarely know which hills i am looking at or even the names of the trees or flowers, i just love the occasional moments of beauty.
as i get older i find myself getting more introspective - sadly studying myself, a bad habit that goes along with visits to the north of scotland or gloomily trudging in the lakes.
glasgow or edinburgh for a more lively time - i know a bit about them

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 04:20 PM

I don't think study is necessarily work, achmelvich. Nor is work necessarily a bad thing. Confucius is often credited with the phrase "Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life". I doubt it was him and I don't really know why yet, whoever it was, it is almost true. I say almost because you still have to work at the things you love, but it is not the kind of work we usually refer to.

Still, I am not one for homespun philosophy. Remembering instead the words of my favourite philosopher, Terry Pratchett. "Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

:D tG

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Nov 15 - 05:49 PM

"sorry, steve, i just cannot get going with classical music and i have tried a few times. it's the formality of it i think, and the showy-offy singing. i like a bit of surprise or ramshackleness"

Well the singing is something after forty years of loving classical is summat I still need to get me head around! I've been to a few Mozart operas and I'm off to see Carmen next week at the Hall For Cornwall in Truro. But mostly I love orchestral and chamber and instrumental music and I'm totally not interested in stuffy stuff. The classical music scene has changed considerably in the last couple of decades and it's lightened up a lot. There's a lot more of looking at what composers really intended rather than the authoritarian claptrap of guru conductors and critics who would have dissed a whole three-quarter hour's symphony just because the oboe played a duff note in bar 78 of the Adagio. I never let anyone tell me what was good, how it should be played or what I should or shouldn't like. The first music that got me hooked was a set of Schubert Impromptus for solo piano that I recorded on a terrible radio cassette in 1973 off the radio. Then I tuned in and heard a performance of Beethoven's seventh symphony. Then I spotted that Beethoven's seventh was to be performed by the Philharmonia under Riccardo Muti at the Festival Hall so we got tickets and I couldn't believe my ears. Then my mate lent me his records of Beethoven's late quartets. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Beethoven has been my only hero ever since. He was the archetypal hairy-arse, argumentative, untidy, supping far too much vino for his own good, fell out with everybody, then wrote the greatest music of all time when he was stone deaf. You can't get more bloody ramshackle than that. It brings a tear to me eye just typing this! Have another go, mate. Those guys were not snobs. They were writing the pop tunes of the day. There's a story about Mozart rolling home to his missus one day in 1791, over the moon because everybody in the Vienna streets was whistling tunes from the Magic Flute!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Nov 15 - 10:01 AM

I have seen the Magic Flute four times, best was in New York a few years ago. Each time I hear it I think that Mozart was the greatest musician ever...then I listen to Bach and I think that he was the greatest. I never think of Beethoven in this context, he is in a realm of his own.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 15 - 06:55 PM

That's exactly it, HiLo. My reactions are exactly the same. I've only seen Magic Flute the once (when you live in Cornwall it's hard), and I spent the whole performance with tears of joy running down my ugly bearded mush (the Queen Of The Night could hack it, which was a relief!). It's just perfect. It's stupid, it's trivial, the plot's completely ridiculous, it's entertaining on the basest level, it's so approachable, it's as daft as a brush, but it's the most sublime thing. Mozart was delighted that the Viennese were humming and whistling tunes from it. A few weeks later he was dead, aged 35. And they tell me there's a God!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 15 - 07:22 PM

Bugger it. Apart from all the rest of his music, here's my list of Mozart pieces that I can't live without. In the spirit of the mighty Kirsty, I've limited myself to eight. That is a damned hard exercise but here goes.

The Magic Flute
Sinfonia Concertante K364
Serenade for 13 Winds, the Gran Partita , K361
Mass in C minor, K427
Symphony no 38, the Prague
Piano Concerto no 22 in E flat, K482
Piano Concerto no 21 in C, K467
Motet, Ave Verum Corpus, K618

I could easily have gone on with another hundred. The Ave Verum must be sung at my funeral otherwise I shall come back to haunt. A flame war involving dreadful disagreements with my choices would be welcomed with relish! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 08 Nov 15 - 08:18 PM

Well Steve, I would find it very hard to disagree with your choices! No flame war from me.
I am also a fan of Vivaldi. What say you ?

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 15 - 08:57 PM

I would never turn off Vivaldi. There was a really wacky, jazzy take on the Four Seasons on the radio last week that yer man would surely have loved! On balance, I suppose I focus more on Mozart onwards, but that's just me. The rewards and riches to be won from delving into classical music are boundless. And the boundaries are quite fuzzy these days.

Radio Three had a huge great long section on Saturday morning about film and show music, and I came away thinking how well-crafted the music is. There's no law that says you have to enjoy everything, but it's good to acknowledge the craft and care that usually goes to any music, even a few pop songs I could name!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 04:48 AM

40 years studying the demography of 4 leaf clovers. Only 100,000 to go for the record.
Crystaline porcelain glazes. Though I have forgotten more than I ever learned.
Paddy the Wanderer. A feral dog in Wellington NZ c1930s.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Will Fly
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:07 AM

Beethoven's last quartets are enthralling - as are Janaçek's quartets - and Mahler's "Das Lied von der Erde".

Moments for concentration and contemplation.

And, for a streak of genius and joy, Bartok's "Music for String, Percussion and Celesta", or Janaçek's "Glagolitic Mass".

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:46 AM

I'm with you on all of those. I'm not a fan of Mahler, but one cold spring evening in 1976 at Ratagan youth hostel in Northern Scotland, when there was only a handful of people staying, we all sat up late and got a bit pissed and the then warden, the artist John Fisher, put on a record of Das Lied Von Der Erde, the one with Kathleen Ferrier and Julius Patzak conducted by Bruno Walter. It was sublime through the alcoholic haze, one of those rare nights that stay with you.

The Janacek mass is glorious, and don't forget the Sinfonietta. Put it on full whack, open the windows and annoy the neighbours! But for me those Beethoven late quartets, and his last three piano sonatas and the Diabelli Variations, are the absolute pinnacle.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Stu
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:55 AM

Vertebrate Palaeontology

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 11:45 AM

I don't know much about Janacek, when I am next in a second hand cd shop. I'll search one out. Any suggestions ? I am now playing Cecelia Barolli singing Vivaldi.
There are "pop" records that I find very moving, one is side two (The Ninth Wave) of Kate Bush's Hounds of love. A bit of pop perfection, beautifully crafted music .

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 01:56 PM

Moving back to the original point while keeping a finger on the pulse of this musical interlude (Mixed Metephor? Cliche? I dunno...) When do we move from being a student to being an expert? Yes, I know even experts have a lot to learn and I hope I will never stop learning until the day I die, but I would say my status in some things has gone above the standard alumni. Someone mentioned they studied pop music. I would say the same. I enjoy and learn from all types of music at popular level. I do find, however, that 'further education' in some is beyond me. Let me give some examples.

I enjoy 'pop' jazz. Acker Bilk, Kenny Barber, Georgie Fame and many others, but when I go a bit deeper I find it is not for me. Nothing wrong with the music. I know it is me. Likewise with Opera. Beyond The Toreador song and Nessun Dorma I start to flounder. Lots of other stuff like Rap and Goth Rock have similar learning curves for me. But sit me down with Folk Rock (Think Steeleye, Runrig, Tull etc.) and I would be there for hours. Most standard folk does the same for me but I will readily admit I don't understand some of the more subtle Irish folk nuances.

So, I am, and ever will be, a perpetual student of the subjects I love but, as this mortal coil is limited (another cliche?) I will specialise. Do other people do the same I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 02:10 PM

Dave, I am not sure I understand your question. What do you mean by specialise ? Does that mean that you qould cut back on some interests in order to concentrate on others. Help me out. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 02:13 PM

As the saying goes "In the country of the blind the one-eyed man is king." I am sure all of us are experts in something or other relative to the world in general. But are you willing to stick a metaphorical shell outside you door and say "I am am expert on X. Consult me to learn something"? As I suggested, there's not a lot I feel that confident of, personally.

But I accept that is perhaps an artificially high level and maybe most questioners would be a someone who knows just enough to get them past their current hurdle.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 03:26 PM

That is round about it, Hilo. Sorry for not being clear.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 04:56 PM

Dave, I hope I did not seem to be dismissive of your view. I was just a bit confused. I have been passionate student of history (and teacher of it) for most of my life. So I do claim some limited expertise. Music is another great love of mine, however, I claim no expertise there , just great joy at the glory of it. So I like very much these threads were others share their joy of music as well.
We have a great world of things to enjoy with other. Far greater than our differences, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:38 PM

Late in adding my list.

Obviously, music..
.mostly traditional folk, but classical has always been there. (I used to get LPs from the library... Gustav Holtz (The Planets) was one of the first.. My first wife was a classical pianist, so I heard Chopin, Mozart...etc., played LIVE 55 years ago. Bought her an LP of Prokofiev's 2nd piano concerto because she said is about the most difficult.

"Thinking" as in philosophy & logic... tried to make it a career, but- life happened.... so I pursue it here. I have a sort of hobby finding flaws in the rantings of politicians, advertisements and other charlatans too numerous to mention.

Wood and woodworking... which is my retirement career/hobby. I have turned or cut up 200-300 types of wood from all over the world.

Science fiction...I don't read as much now, but have probably over a thousand books in my collection piles.

Computer freeware programs: (PC only).. it's like having toys to have 9 ways to do everything.... and often better than the payware or default stuff they give you.

Human sexuality: we are a complex species when we think up 'interesting' ways to express our libedos, and having worked for 3 years in an 'adult' bookstore and run 16MM projectors in a theater (until banned in Bible Belt Kansas), I am awed at the variety of expressions and the repression of them in various places.

Travel: I have visited & driven in 42 of the 50 states, and now the Google Earth exists, I can 'virtually'' visit & drive in much of the rest of the world.

Genealogy: I discovered that my father's side of the family, having lived in Delaware, Massachusetts, New Jersey...etc, is traceable back to England, Scotland, Wales, France and a couple of odd places. I 'seem' to be very (as in VERY) distantly related to Winston Churchill, Prince Phillip and a couple or others. I do have about 6-7 lines going back 12-14 generations.

History: no detailed knowledge... just like picking up interesting stuff that relates to everything else.

Pie... I love pie...except for the kinds I don't. Maybe I'm not a 'student' of it, but ....


.....life, the universe and everything...........

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:57 PM

Ah yes ,pie! Pumpkin and apple . I am not an expert but, ooh, pecan pie...yes!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 09:44 PM

Pecan yes!!,,, Pumpkin...no...You see how scholars differ? ;>)

all sorts of berry, cherry, and creme..

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 02:18 AM

I detest academia, however much I've been pressured to return to it. No, nay, never, nae more.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 09:24 AM

Mostly evolution of language

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 10:13 AM

Mrr, That sounds really interesting. I often notice how much the advent of technology has changed language.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 11:53 AM

A wonderful source for exploring language is http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 07:57 PM

Even if you are a master of something or an accomplished professional you may still consider yourself a student of that subject. In those cases it would be good to know you are an expert student.

I too see many shared points of interests I would like to explore.

Archeology hooked me when I was shown Mesa Verde cliff dwellings, and almost fell to my death.
Sometimes I still dream in Angor Watt bas relief or Aztec drawinga .
New to me are the amazing sites in India and Turkey as well as China.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 11 Nov 15 - 09:42 AM

When I first began the formal study of History, I was required to take a year long course in Archeology in order to understand the value of and interpretation of Archeological evidence> I was hooked> Especially on Egypt and also on the Archeology of the middle ages. I have kept up a keen interest over the years and I am by no means an expert,but I have learned a lot

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Nov 15 - 05:01 AM

Spot on with your first line just above, Donuel. Probably what I was unsuccessfully trying to get at earlier. Thanks :-)

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Nov 15 - 09:44 AM

Growing up on a 'respectable' working class council estate,
I long ago became aware that self educated hobbyists
could often have a better knowledge and understanding of their chosen interest
than the middle class professionals and academics who might smugly ridicule and dismiss them.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 07:32 PM

This thread still has a long ways to go before its possibilities are exhausted. And it is a happier, more constructive thread than some of the closed BS threads hanging out on the front page, so why not refresh this thread and bump a closed thread off the front page at the same time.

All my life I have been fascinated, sometimes painfully so, with the side of learning and practicing which cannot be measured, quantified, standardized. One reason I avoided becoming an educator was because I really wanted to leave the standards and the norms to others. When I go to somebody else to learn something, I have expectations of that person having standards; but it dawned on me that I did not really want to trade places and be in the position of the educator. So I have never been a teacher. But learning is a subject I return to, no matter how often I get scared away from it somehow.

My childhood and youth were marked by a really pathetic dependency on somebody older and wiser to look up to and get approval from. With retrospect and having finally disengaged from my family of origin, it is easy to see why I looked for a surrogate parent outside the house.

Today my learning experiences are not with a teacher any more. Role models, maybe, but not going to a teacher. I guess I've said enough now.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 07:58 PM

Your points about teachers are very interesting Keberoxu. I have been a teacher for most of my life and have truly loved it because I learned so much! The most wonderful things I have learned have not been from courses or seminars, but from getting off track on academic things... I have read hundreds of letters, wills and diaries from the Middle Ages and I see us of this time and place being no different. it was a huge gift to learn that. I am ( or was until retirement) passionate about talking to students about that . don,t over value the present nor underestimate the past.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Mar 16 - 08:15 PM

Being a good teacher has nothing to do with perpetuating the standards and norms of others. It's not about stuffing people's brains with information either. It's about giving people the skills and the enthusiasm and the curiosity to go and grab knowledge (not information) for themselves. We can all be teachers if we have something to offer. The greatest teacher I ever had was Kery Dalby*, a botanist who had the rare knack of simultaneously losing himself in his own enthusiasms and infecting everyone around him with those same enthusiasms. He died quite recently, in his late nineties. My regret is that I never told him how he'd been the making of me. Another chap was called Kenny Alvin, a palaeobotanist of the first order, whose wide-eyed enthusiasm for his field of endeavour trumped any need for sophisticated teaching skills.

*Kery was short for Dunkery, a first name bestowed on him because he was born within sight of Dunkery Beacon, the highest point on Exmoor. Poignantly, that area was the favourite of my late father-in-law, and Mrs Steve and I go once a year to walk to the top of Dunkery Beacon, where we spell out "dad" in pebbles just by the summit cairn.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: DMcG
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 03:03 AM

When I was thirteen, if I remember rightly, a maths teacher remarked in passing that a Pythagorean triangle with integer sides always has one of those sides divisible by 5 - as you do! What intrigued me was that I realised I simply did not know how you would go about proving something like that, so around twenty minutes later I asked him. He stopped the class and went through proof, which relies on techniques that are way off syllabus, but opened my eyes (if maybe no-one elses!) to different ways of thinking about problems. It is, perhaps, the moment I moved from 'school maths' to 'real maths'.

I agree with Steve that that is a 'good teacher'. I am also painfully aware that the ofsted-driven, preplanned approach of today would declare the opposite.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 03:57 AM

I was going to write beer and pickled eggs. I notice GUEST said that last year. Must have been me then, as I happen to know neither of my doppelgängers like pickled eggs.

On a fairly honest assessment? (Damn! Missed an
Opportunity to write "an honest")

Music (in a rather wide sense, but especially one voice and guitar, T Rex and Bach. Mrs Musket tried to engage me in opera but with little success to date.

Playing guitar and most string based instruments. Prior to an accident that stiffened my wrist, I played violin (second generally) in a number of youth orchestras. These days, GAS means I have far too many guitars. (And still adding.)

I was involved in research of mechanical vibration for many years, a director of a manufacturing company and wrote a PhD thesis on the subject.

I have spent the last fifteen years interfering in healthcare governance though, and being married to a surgeon, doubt that'll change any time soon. Having a break right now, (tried retiring, got bored) but still involved with a medical school in system improvement.

Sheffield Wednesday. (Regular pilgrimage since I was six years old.)

Skiing. (We are fortunate enough to be able to have two ski trips a year. France back in January and Canada in a few weeks time.

Pottering in the garden, growing our own veg and as my time is more free than Mrs Musket's I have really got into cooking over the last few years.



There. A normal post with no knob gags, no taking the piss. Booorrriiinnggg.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 04:29 AM

I came across a phrase the other day. If you cannot explain it to a five year old, you don't really understand it :-) I thought it very true and I am pretty sure some of the teachers on here will agree. My list, early on, included UNIX. I did not realise how much I did not know until I taught a beginners course. For any serious students of anything I would recommend teaching it to others. You will come on in leaps and bounds!

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Donuel
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 08:21 AM

there is a saying "by teaching you are taught."

My habit is to condense a hundred words down to less than 10.
I may think that clarity is enhanced but no one else may see or understand the implied entendres or scope of the statement. It is probably an artifact of dyslexia.

I may think I have said what Max has said with more cleverness and brevity but to the reader, an overabundance of words is probably better understood. No one wants to work that hard to get the point and no one else is thinking with my brain.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 11:07 AM

I have the opposite probem to Donuel. My tendency is to say... or type... long explanations of my ideas & opinions, with explications of the explanations as I go. There never seems to enough time or words to adequately explore all the byways.

When I was in graduate school, we had 2 hour seminars. My favorite philosophy professor was always surprised when someone noted the class time had expired..... he had this web of interlocking concepts and clarifications in his head, and there was no obvious place to stop. I empathasize with him.
Sadly these days, many kids don't want that long version of ANY area of study, and education 'seems' to be cooperating.

♫"Give me the simple life"♫

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: keberoxu
Date: 13 Mar 16 - 03:42 PM

One of the subjects of my perpetual studenthood is song lyrics in any language. The study of languages interested me in school; but it had to be admitted, in the end, that my interest was not in the language itself as much as in the poetry or music-lyrics in said language. I'm not all that thrilled with counting money in another country, or explaining in a language other than mine that the ladies' room needs attention because a toilet is overflowing, and on and on. Song lyrics is one of the main things that brought me to the Mudcat Café in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: keberoxu
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 03:07 PM

Don't let this thread die just because of something I said....

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Strider
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 10:32 PM

Ronnie Tolkien, for instance:

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.

From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.

Fits perfect with the tune My Bonnie Lays Over the Ocean

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Mar 16 - 11:09 PM

All That Is Gold (click)

---

That being said, I'd say I've been a student of languages all my life, since a took Spanish on Saturdays from a cute nun when I was in eighth grade and approaching puberty. But that's another story...

Besides my one year of Spanish, I studied Latin for 6 years, Greek for 2, and German forever. I worked as a German linguist in the U.S. Army in Berlin, and I've tutored Latin and German.

Through the years, I've developed my own Holy Grail of linguistics to seek. I'm convinced that there's a key to the development of languages, and a synergistic role of language in the development of cultures and peoples and philosophies. We are limited by what our languages cannot express, but we are also empowered by what our languages CAN express - and those abilities and inabilities serve to direct the development of our cultures and philosophies and who knows what else.

I think this holy grail key is a very simple thing that nobody has found yet. But it's interesting to ponder and explore.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 12:00 AM

8th grade and a Army GED here, Joe Offer, but I read ya.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 02:57 AM

Let's go a little further. There's a secret to language, and I haven't found it yet - at least not in a way that I can express. But I studied Latin, and seem to be able to pick up Romantic languages (with Latin roots) very easily. And I really know German, so Yiddish and other Germanic languages came to me very naturally.

And I married a Rhode Island woman whose first language was Polish, so I thought I was all set when I went to Poland. Not so - I didn't understand a thing. And when I took her to Poland the next year, she didn't understand much more. She said she forgot it all because she hadn't spoken Polish since she finished high school and moved out of Rhode Island. So, maybe Slavic languages follow different rules.

The only thing Greek helped me with, was learning the Russian alphabet and reading signs in Greece. Couldn't understand a word they said - but sometimes they thought I was German and they addressed me in that language, and then I was fine.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 03:59 AM

Working at a handicap is a good exercise in persistence. You stumble along, people look at you and shake their heads, then, when the times right, the Holy Grail. Love your stuff Joe Offer

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 04:14 AM

The first thing I do when I go to a new country, is figure out how to order a beer. After that, who cares?

...but in Switzerland, I found many places where the beer had no alcohol, so maybe I'd better re-think the previous principle.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 08:41 PM

Joe Offer: "The first thing I do when I go to a new country, is figure out how to order a beer. After that, who cares?
Let's go a little further. There's a secret to language, and I haven't found it yet - at least not in a way that I can express."

Hmmm...Related??....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Mooh
Date: 16 Mar 16 - 09:14 PM

Various styles of music, music theory, history, etc.
Guitars, and fretted instruments in general.
Carpentry.
I don't read much about labour relations anymore, I no longer work in the field, but it interests me.
History, nothing very specific, but generally Canadian.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 12:09 PM

A person can be a total amateur/beginner student or a fully qualified practioner, yet you will still be a student. Does any field of study permit one to say I know everything? The day a person sits in the rocking chair and ceases to study is the day they start to die.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 12:23 PM

This is where the better angels of who we wish to be, live and breathe.

If only I had the energy to do them all.

I am exactly the same age as Robin Williams but avoided the sun all my life. With an eye job I could lie about being 48.

In the end I would rather feel good than look good.

I want to refurbish and modify 3 cellos and two violin.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Mar 16 - 11:52 PM

Donuel: "I want to refurbish and modify 3 cellos and two violin."

Bless You!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 01:25 AM

The Arts [as they call them] in general -- Maths and Science are, alas, a closed book to me; a lack of which I am by no means proud, but to which I have just had to reconcile myself over a long life.

My tastes in what I study (which of course is what the 'student' of the thread title does) are subject to a certain exclusiveness, summed up in what I call my "Boring Old Fart's credo", to which at age of 80+ I consider myself entitled, which states as follows:-

"BOF says that my Literature shall be Comprehensible; my Art Representational; my Music Tonal: naught else shall penetrate my attention zone."

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 18 Mar 16 - 05:50 PM

It has been said, and I find true, that it is best to always be a student, because once you you think you know it all, you are living in the past.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,rookie
Date: 24 Mar 16 - 11:44 PM

Ronnie Tolkien, for instance :

Song of The Fall of Gil-galad

Gil-galad was an Elven-king.
Of him the harpers sadly sing:
the last whose realm was fair and free
between the Mountains and the Sea.

His sword was long, his lance was keen,
his shining helm afar was seen;
the countless stars of heaven's field
were mirrored in his silver shield.

But long ago he rode away,
and where he dwelleth none can say;
for into darkness fell his star
in Mordor where the shadows are.

Fits with the tune Yankee Doodle

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 04:03 AM

I think all one needs is an insatiable curiosity about the world and everything therein. If you're extremely nosy (like me) you never stop being a student. It's when you no longer care to investigate or explore that you don't learn anything new.

I love the film 'Umrao Jahn, Courtesan of Lucknow', and in it there's a song (in Hindi) which translated means,
"I never did find what I was looking for, but in the seeking I learned much about the world." That sums me up I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: You are a student of what things?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Mar 16 - 07:33 AM

"I think all one needs is an insatiable curiosity about the world and everything therein"
Absolutely.
I work actively in researching folk-song, which is my first love, but regularly travel 200 miles to see a few good films in a bunch because they don't make it to this side of the country.
Apart from these, I become a (very mature) student in whatever catches my interest.
I've added to that list considerably thanks to some of the topics I've become involved in on this forum.
Jim Carroll