Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament

Subject: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 03:38 AM

A tune called Councillor MacDonagh's Lament is in the Irish Traditional Music Archive. Does anyone know its origins, and who Councillor (/Counsellor?) MacDonagh was?

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 09:59 AM

Could it be this Councillor MacDonagh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 10:14 AM

Answer: probably. He was anti- Treaty and died on hunger strike in 1922.

Wikipedia

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 04:04 AM

I don't think it was; I think this is an older tune; the simple structure and tonality makes it sound much earlier, and somewhere in the back of my mind I have the idea that I've heard of a Counsellor MacDonagh/ McDonagh/ M'Donagh/ M'Donough/ Comhairleoir Mac Donnchadha… who may have been known to fame in his day.

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 05:37 AM

Possible a set of words was fitted to the tune and lost - with the tune picking up the new name? Can't say I've come across the title.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 11:54 AM

I've seen the title in old material.

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: GUEST,Martin ryan
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 01:12 PM

Any details, Thompson?

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: keberoxu
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 03:40 PM

Is this completely different from the Lament FOR Macdonagh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: Thompson
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 02:30 AM

No details, sorry, I just know that in my trek through a million old books I came across the title at some stage. Sorry to be vabue.
keberoxu, what's the Lament for MacDonagh?

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 10:22 AM

It's a good tune and a good performance - worth listening to or learning. Click on the link in the OP.

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 12:56 PM

The Lament for MacDonagh is a poem, in English, written after the Easter Rising, so probably too recent.

However: in the Jacobite era, when Carolan was writing music,
was there not a Councillor Terence MacDonagh (not sure of spelling)?

Subject: RE: Origins: Counsellor MacDonough's Lamentation
From: keberoxu
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 04:26 PM

Sorry, I am in no position, at this public workstation, to listen to files online; then maybe I could answer the question quicker. However, here is what I can find online, in writing.

Harpist Grainne Hambly has a blog/site online with liner notes for her recordings. She made an album called Between the Showers, and I have pulled up the page online where Ms. Hambly entered the liner notes for that album.

She has these remarks about TWO different pieces:
"Counsellor MacDonough's Lamentation"
or "Turlough Og MacDonough"
"Two different versions of this Carolan piece are played here. The first is taken from the collection of John and William Neal, "The Most Celebrated Irish Tunes, proper for violin, German flute and hautboy" published in c. 1724. The second version was taken from Bunting's 1796 volume, "A General Collection of the Ancient Music of Ireland." The air was composed by Carolan on the death of Counsellor Terence MacDonough, from Creevagh, Co. Sligo in 1713. MacDonough (who was generally referred to in Irish as Toirdhealbheach Og or Toirdhealbheach Caech) had been the only Catholic counsellor-at-law to be admitted to the Irish bar after the conditions of the Treaty of Limerick (1691)."

Thompson, does the archive file not indicate if Turlough O'Carolan is the author of this music?

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 07:08 PM

http://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Lament_for_Teren



????? ??

Subject: RE: Origins: Councillor MacDonagh's Lament
From: GUEST,Anne Neilson
Date: 12 Dec 15 - 12:01 PM

Is anyone else hearing this as (approaching) the tune for the Scottish song "There will Never be Peace until Jamie Comes Home'?

i'm assuming it will have been co-opted from the Carolan version.