Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails

Subject: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 04:52 PM

I know there are some people here who have a foot in the folk camp and one in the classical camp. The tune used by many children's singing games such as 'The Big Ship Sails on the Alley Alley O' and 'Old Roger is Dead' was in WWI set to the words of 'Hanging on the Old Barbed Wire'. I have heard a classical composition, possibly a relatively recent one, that uses somewhere in it practically the same tune. Any one know which tune it could be? It's often played on the radio but it might be weeks before I hear it again.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 06:22 PM

Steve, an easily identifiable version of "The Old Barbed Wire" was used as the the theme of the idiotic sitcom "Hogan's Heroes," which premiered in 1965.

But that may not be the one you're hearing.

There are two or three American texts of the song, which was apparently picked up in 1917-18. The barbed-wire stanza is absent in all cases.

The American tune (like that used in "Oh What a Lovely War") is more melodic than the "Big Ship" tune - at least I heard the Clancy Bros. sing it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Lighter
Date: 10 Nov 15 - 06:22 PM

Steve, an easily identifiable version of "The Old Barbed Wire" was used as the the theme of the idiotic sitcom "Hogan's Heroes," which premiered in 1965.

But that may not be the one you're hearing.

There are two or three American texts of the song, which was apparently picked up in 1917-18. The barbed-wire stanza is absent in all cases.

The American tune (like that used in "Oh What a Lovely War") is more melodic than the "Big Ship" tune - at least I heard the Clancy Bros. sing it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Nov 15 - 09:16 PM

Can't think of any classical music quote for it, but it does have a nice musical sequence in the 3 "Ally--ally O, ally-ally 0, Ally-ally- Os."" Some similarity (mainly in this sequence ), with Uncle Bernard's Polka (not the whole tune: just that sequence).
Trish

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 15 - 08:17 AM

The version in the classical piece is slightly sombre/slower and the tune sounds somewhat in a mode so not exactly the same notes but close. I've heard it several times on Classic FM so will note the piece and composer next time I hear it.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Lighter
Date: 12 Nov 15 - 08:54 AM

Cf. also the tune of the popular 19th century parlor song "Long Long Ago." There's a strong resemblance, though not an identity.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Old Barbed Wire/Big Ship Sails
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Nov 15 - 03:09 PM

Yes, definite similarities there as well. Bayly might well have had the folk tune in the back of his mind. It's still very much around as well. It was the default ringtone on my last cellphone.