Folk song line lengths

Subject: Folk song line lengths
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Dec 99 - 11:53 PM

The hymnal used in the church my family attended (my dad was the preacher) had a feature that it seems would be useful in the DT: Under the name of the hymn at the top of the page, in addition to the name of the tune was a string of numbers indicating the lengths of the lines of the songs, the purpose being that it was then possible to try using different tunes for particular verses: if you didn't like the tune a hymn used, you could find one with similar line lengths that you did like, and sing the verses to that tune. I don't recall the feature ever being used in that church, but MMario's posting of a poem he had come across about a turkey's attempt to avoid its fate, followed by speculation over what tune one might sing it to made me remember the hymnal feature: I'm not advocating promiscuous switching of tunes and lyrics, but if we did have a listing of tunes with line lengths--and accent patterns--someone with a problem/opportunity such as that faced by MuhMario could check the list of traditional tunes for the line lengths and find ones which fit the words...

Actually, this is just idle speculation, for none of us honest folk artists would ever use a tune we didn't create ourselves--would we? Imagine a grinny emoticon here. Or don't, as you choose.

--seed

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From:
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 12:54 PM

It's still used to this day in even new hymn books coming out. I think it is even shown that way on the Cyber Humnal.

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 01:04 PM

If anyone would volunteer to do a metrical catalog for the DT, it could be very valuable and would be most appreciated. Frankly, I'd do it myself, but I don't have time.

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 01:04 PM

That's amazing. I grew up seeing those notations in hymnals all my life and I don't know if ANYone was aware of what they stood for. I have now learned my something new for today. I can hang it up for the rest of the day. Or maybe go on to learn my something new for tomorrow so I can just rest up...

I am now going to dig up my old hymnal and look at it with fresh eyes.

WW

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 06:27 PM

It actually records the number of syllables in each line, rather than line length, a line with eight words might have 8 syllables, or it might have 24.....

LTS, Pedant of the week

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Dec 99 - 07:03 PM

Yeah, but metre in English doesn't really go by syllables, but by stresses - typically in follk sonmgs you'll find lines with masses of extra syllables put in, sung to the same bit of tune more or less.

Just a random example from a songbook I opened to find a random example - the first lines of three verses of "The Sporting Youth"

Some says I'm foolish and more says I'm wise (10 syllables)

If I would leave my parents and go along with you (13 syllables)

So now we are landed and married we be (11 syllables)

And that's by no means an extreme example. Comic songs expecially will make a feature of sticking in a great run of extra syllables, or removing a few. For example:

A Sailor courted a farmer's daughter
Who lived contagious to the town of Strabane
With loving melody he did besought her
That's she'd marry him, and not forsaek him
Or go with any other kind classification or condition of a man.

And the other thing that goes with that is that the idea that there is one exact tune that goes with all the verses in unaccompanied singing is quite out of keeping with most traditions. Collectors like Cecil Sharpe and Baring-Gould would try and sort out what the "right tune" was, and think that the variations were mistakes. And then you get singers trying to cram the words of all the verses into the same tune. Or rewriting the words so that they fit the tune.

Subject: RE: Folk song line lengths
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 05 Dec 99 - 02:11 AM

G'day,
This information is used extensively in Aussie churches. I suppose we're a lazy, rebellious lot - we refuse to do accept the status quo so we keep changing things, but we need help to do it.

Cheers,
Alan