Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Elmore
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:24 AM

Haven't heard Tom play the Zoo Song in concert in decades. He never fails to play "The Last Thing". The audience knows all the words, not just the chorus.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:33 AM

Aach, yeah. Even some children here in China know the Zoo song.

Not many here know "Last Thing...", and 99% of those who know, only knew it because of the Llewyn Davis film.

JXW

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmth
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 11:38 AM

Oh dear! Elmore, you're missing the bloody point.

How the heck can you compare the odd concert performance of the song ( probably sung to a bunch of people the wrong side of 60 yrs old) with the day by day, year by year, encounters that countless numbers of children, parents and grand-parents have with the Zoo song.

I'm beginning to think that too much exposure to folk music dulls a persons reasoning faculties.

BTW, if the Zoo song was performed at ANY concert ( from the Proms to a heavy metal show ) I bet MOST of the audience could sing along with it...and waves their arms like an elephant's trunk!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:03 PM

Jason, I was going to mention that the Zoo song is used all over the world to help younger children learn English.
Apart from being a fun song, the use of actions would reinforce the meaning of the words/ lyrics.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:33 PM

And I'll agree that it was those "awkward" F major chords that made Jimmy Newman such a great song.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 12:39 PM

Yes Tunesmith, I'll agree with you on that. I've seen a homemade video of a Chinese kid, about 5-yr-old, dancing to the Zoo song sung by an unknown female singer!

By the way, I have a 80's songbook published in China, which has "What Did You Learn in School Today?" marked as written by "Woody Gathrie": http://ddpro.ucoz.com/tabs/07.png

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 01:12 PM

Jason, "Jimmy Newman" should be a very famous song. and the fact that it's not, I believe, is down to the awkward - on the ear, chord movements.
I wonder if your " Chinese" ear is more open to that particular sound.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 02:58 PM

Tunesmith, I believe that the reason why Tom threw that awkward F chord in "Jimmy Newman" was because the song was meant to be written awkward, as the guy in the song was facing an awkward situation.
Of course that song is not one of those pleasant-to-the-ear kind of songs, and it shouldn't be. It's pretty much like "Crucifixion" by Phil Ochs, done in a less technical way.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 03:25 PM

I still see "Jimmy Newman" as an experiment that went wrong.
I wouldn't say that I only like pleasant sounding songs e.g. I love a lot of blues music and that can be very edgy but I would say that both Tom, and Phil's most loved songs have strong, plaintive melodies/ chords.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 04:34 PM

All I am saying is that "The Zoo Song" is A LOT more well known than "The Last Thing."
Proof, GUEST, Tunesmith, Proof? Just your opinion: different from mine: you are getting into elder abuse now with your comments re over-60s! Lay off!
I took my grandchildren (ages 6 and 3) to the Zoo just 2 days ago: they don't they know that song: not taught in their school or nursery AFAIK. Grannie can sing it to them, but they prefer "Wheels on the Bus" and "Coorie Doon".
Final answer: I'll say no more, as it's getting just a wee bit ridiculous!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 25 Sep 17 - 05:07 PM

Tattie Bogle,

Proof! Just use the reasoning power that God gave you.

I stopped singing The Last Thing in folk clubs back in the late 60s ( it had been driven into the ground by then...along with Blowin' in the Wind!)

Even you admitted that your grandchildren know the Zoo song!

And, millions and millions of children around the world will have been introduced to the song in the past 50 years.

Have, I ask you, millions and millions of children been introduced to The Last Thing in the past 50 yrs.

Youtube viewing figures must surely be a guide to how well known the song is.

The Zoo song has had millions and millions and millions of more viewing than The Last Thing.

And, as you pointed out there are other songs, not written by Tom, with the title Last Thing on my mind.

And, guess what! They have much larger viewing figures that Tom's song.

I think you simply can't admit that you are wrong.
Not a very healthy trait.



Intersting

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 11:37 AM

Tunesmith, please stop it! This is cyber-bullying.
What IS unhealthy is not respecting others' opinions, or reading their posts properly.
Over and out.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 01:08 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have to agree with Tattie Bogle, the ad hominem and innuendo kind of spoil the fun:

"Wrong side of 60," "Chinese ears," "I think you simply can't admit you're wrong. Not a very healthy trait. Interesting," "I'm beginning to think too much exposure to folk music dulls a person's reasoning faculties," "a number [sic] of Mudcat posters live in a 'folk bubble' and need to get out . . . more..."

And

"What is now interesting, is why posters [sic] are resisting the fact that the Zoo song will undoubtedly be Tom's most well known song.
Is it because they don't want to acknowledge that Tom's main lasting legacy will be a "silly" children's song and not one of his great love songs or social comment songs[?]"

I do take issue with this: Even though the Zoo Song is the most sung and best known Paxton song, it does not follow that it will be his "lasting legacy." Chuck Berry's sole million-seller was "My Ding-a-ling," and as a popular bawdy party song, it was probably sung all the way through by more people, if not performers, than any other.

But basically I don't get the irritation: If it's a matter of opinion, then everyone gets one vote, right? If it's a matter. of fact, then why sweat others' mistakes? It's like getting worked up at someone's incorrect spelling or punctuation.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 01:58 PM

Well, I'm the wrong side of 70!

The "Chinese Ears" is clearly aimed at the fact that Chinese poster Jason will have been exposed to huge amount of Chinese music which might make him more open to the Jimmy Newman "awkward" ( to my ears) chord/melody connection.

As to legacy! The Zoo song is surely the one song that has the best longevity prospect of all of Tom's compositions.

It's nowhere near Tom's best song ( in my opinion, ) and it's not the most loved but it will endure because of its subject matter/ target audience,

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 02:27 PM

Well, let's try another example: Patty and Mildred Hill's best known song--far better known than the Zoo Song--has nothing to do with their legacy. I doubt that they can even be said to HAVE a legacy, since their (disputed) composition of [the melody of] "Happy Birthday to You" is known by a miniscule percentage of those who sing it. Or so I believe.

Or . . . Dave Van Ronk is hardly renowned for his largest seller, "Bamboo," which made him a small fortune (on a Peter, Paul, and Mary album).

They both made a lot of money for various people (and I'm very happy for Tom Paxton, too) but I don't think they did much for their composers' legacies.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 03:35 PM

OK, here we have a definition of "legacy".

"something that is a part of your history or that remains from an earlier time"

Now, if am right, and the Zoo song is the only song of Tom's that will survive in the public's consciousness for a long time, then it will be his legacy.
His name will appear along side the title of the song in song books.
When, played on the radio ( or future equivalent) a dj/presenter will now and then name the composer of the song

Let's take another example,

Irving Berlin is a giant of the popular song BUT a hundred years from now, I would bet that, of all his countless songs, only "White Christmas" ( if we are still celebrating Christmas) will be remembered in a big way.

For the general public, it will be all that is left of his great music legacy

Of course, there will always be a revival of interest in songs from an earlier time.

"The Entertainer" was amazingly plucked from a dusty obscurity when used in "The Sting" and gave birth to a huge revival of interest in Scott Joplin and ragtime music.

Tom's music could be "rediscovered" a hundred years after his death.

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 03:54 PM

Talking about Irving Berlin.
Didn't he, in the 40s? compose some USA patriotic song?
I guess that will endure!

Subject: RE: Tom Paxton has retired from touring (not yet)
From: Jackaroodave
Date: 26 Sep 17 - 04:52 PM

[Sigh] "God help America" or something like that, now quasi-obligatory during baseball's Seventh Inning Stretch.