BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy

Subject: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 09:04 AM

There is an interesting point implicit in this, not made by the author:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/11/debate-syria-missing-syrians-151130060932842.html

He's arguing that bombing Syria is a waste of time in combatting ISIS, because they don't depend on fixed physical structures. They're a force based on mobile units mainly equipped with small arms, with a economic base of looting and extortion (he says oil is not all that significant as as a source of income for them).

That sounds to me exactly like the future envisaged by the US gun nut survivalist tendency. They expect to be able to take on the government in exactly the same way; rootless individuals and small groups surviving by stealing from those they see as too weak and stupid to arm themselves adequately.

I suspect this may be more than coincidence. There are many popular culture versions of that ideal, in fantasy fiction, comic books and video games. These are a common experience for both ISIS recruits and the gun-totin' American right. Call of Duty is a more important scripture than either the Bible or the Koran.

If you're on the receiving end it doesn't make any difference whether the guys using your house for target practice are waving Old Glory or a black banner.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 09:32 AM

The Last Survivors

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 10:38 AM

It was also the strategy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army in the 1940s, the Viet Cong in the 1950s to 1975, Castro's rebels in the 1950s, the various groups in Yugoslavia in the 1940s, the "anarchists" in Europe and Russia in the 1800s...even the "Children of Israel" during their conquest of Israel after they left Egypt and the revolts of the Maccabees and the Zealots.

But remember too what happened to these: China and Vietnam are effectively capitalist countries under single-party rule, Yugoslavia split and split again with faction against faction, Europe crushed the revolts of 1848 (and Britain finally gave up on most of Ireland in 1921), Russia collapsed back in the capitalism but pretty much silences any dissent, Israel was conquered over and over, the Maccabees were crushed by the Romans and the Zealots died at Masada.

That's leaving out things like the massacre at Béziers, St. Bartholomew's Day, the Peasant's Revolt, Gnadenhutten, the September Massacres, Anatolia, Mountain Meadows, Croke Park, Amritsar, Bath School,        Ciénaga...and the list goes on and on and on. (NB: I left out ones related to war, but rumors of war are included and I trust I was international in scope.)

I would say that 95% of the "survivalists" in the US, unlike Daesh, have no experience of war and are talking out of their rectums.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST,#
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 12:15 PM

Great article with which I agree almost completely. Thanks for posting the link, Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 02:39 PM

I'm not clear that what Jack describes as the intent of the US gun-nut survivalist tendency was in fact the intent of the groups that Rap mentions.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 03:13 PM

Quite. You may recognize a famous quote near the end of this:

Mao on guerrilla warfare

Living among the people like a fish in water is not exactly ISIS's style, or that of an American with a truckload of guns telling him he's an air-breather.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 09:13 PM

In order to be considered a legitimate caliphate, ISIS has to take and hold ground. Therein lies the key to defeating ISIS: re-take the ground they hold and prevent them from taking ground elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 30 Nov 15 - 11:12 PM

"Gun-nut Survivalists" are not rootless, and they are not really predatory. Their vision of the future is more of a "Night of the Living Dead" only instead of zombies, they are besieged by tax-and-spend liberals. They are reclusive and very paranoid, and it is critical to remember that they believe they need guns defend themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 02:26 AM

Very good Stim.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:04 AM

We have a telly programme here in The UK on BBC called Russel Howard's Good News.

Snippets of USA news channel stories on rednecks, shit kickers and evangelical Christians are brilliant material for us to laugh at.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 05:14 AM

Oh, I must have a look at that.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 06:56 AM

I sometimes watch him on iPlayer as light laughs to wind down to if I am home late.

This week's includes a gun merchant making guns with Christian quotes on them, Carson and a pastor who between them show why we have incitement to hatred laws over here and to that end, a beauty salon this side of the puddle who got into trouble for saying Muslims aren't welcome in her salon.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 10:02 AM

nd it is critical to remember that they believe they need guns defend themselves.

It is MORE critical to remember that they're batshit crazy. And thus quite dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:25 PM

Batshit crazy or paranoid, in the end, it all comes down to barrel awareness;-)

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Mrrzy
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 03:28 PM

Also, it hasn't yet been demonstrated that killing people is a good way to get people not to kill you.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:36 PM

"Also, it hasn't yet been demonstrated that killing people is a good way to get people not to kill you."

You may want to rephrase that.

Subject: RE: BS: ISIS and US gun-nut strategy
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Dec 15 - 04:51 PM

Ah, yes, gun nuts - http://filmingcops.com/cop-shoots-17-yr-old-boy-nine-times-in-the-back-wont-release-video/