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BS: Onward Christian Soldiers

Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 10:46 AM
Bonzo3legs 06 Dec 15 - 11:04 AM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 11:06 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Dec 15 - 11:10 AM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 11:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Dec 15 - 11:27 AM
Steve Shaw 06 Dec 15 - 11:36 AM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 11:41 AM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 11:51 AM
Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 12:03 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,# 06 Dec 15 - 12:29 PM
Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 12:34 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 12:51 PM
Rapparee 06 Dec 15 - 12:51 PM
Keith A of Hertford 06 Dec 15 - 02:03 PM
Ebbie 06 Dec 15 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Olddude 06 Dec 15 - 02:19 PM
GUEST,Dave 06 Dec 15 - 02:20 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Olddude 06 Dec 15 - 02:54 PM
Jim Carroll 06 Dec 15 - 03:04 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 05:29 PM
GUEST,Dave 06 Dec 15 - 05:36 PM
Paul Burke 06 Dec 15 - 05:46 PM
Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 05:46 PM
Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 05:49 PM
Paul Burke 06 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 06:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Dec 15 - 06:29 PM
Greg F. 06 Dec 15 - 06:31 PM
GUEST 06 Dec 15 - 06:40 PM
Bill D 06 Dec 15 - 06:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Dec 15 - 06:59 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Dec 15 - 07:11 PM
Joe Offer 06 Dec 15 - 09:10 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Dec 15 - 09:29 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 06 Dec 15 - 09:43 PM
Wesley S 06 Dec 15 - 09:47 PM
Steve Shaw 06 Dec 15 - 09:54 PM
Wesley S 06 Dec 15 - 09:59 PM
GUEST,Olddude 06 Dec 15 - 10:42 PM
gillymor 06 Dec 15 - 11:57 PM
GUEST,Olddude 07 Dec 15 - 01:40 AM
GUEST,Olddude 07 Dec 15 - 01:55 AM
GUEST 07 Dec 15 - 03:38 AM
GUEST 07 Dec 15 - 04:21 AM
GUEST,Cambrai 07 Dec 15 - 05:31 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Dec 15 - 05:55 AM
Steve Shaw 07 Dec 15 - 06:00 AM
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Subject: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 10:46 AM

No comment necessary:


Liberty University president urges: 'End those Muslims' via concealed gun carry
Associated Press in Lynchburg, Virginia
Saturday 5 December 2015 16.35 EST

The president of Liberty University urged students, staff and faculty at the Christian school to carry concealed weapons on campus to counter any possible armed attack like the mass shooting in San Bernardino, California.

"Let's teach them a lesson if they ever show up here," President Jerry Falwell Jr told an estimated 10,000 students at the weekly convocation held on Friday in Lynchburg.

"I've always thought if more good people had concealed carry permits, then we could end those Muslims before they walked in," Falwell said.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:04 AM

The man is an idiot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:06 AM

I heard that story yesterday and my first thought was "What would Jesus carry?".


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:10 AM

Only two of the countless US mass shootings have been by Muslims, but what is wrong with someone firing back at any mass shooter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:22 AM

Here ya go, Keith.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:27 AM

Shocking, but what is wrong with someone firing back at any mass shooter?


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:36 AM

What is wrong is that you shouldn't have a gun to fire back with. What is also wrong is that the assailant should not be able to have a gun either. You'd think it was the wild west and that most yanks think they're Billy The bloody Kid. There seems to be a lot of excess insanity going round in America. Another reason for you in particular is that God told you not to kill people and he also said that you should turn the other cheek. Don't you just love these Christians who cherrypick the bits of their belief system that suit them?


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:41 AM

There's too many whack jobs out there with too much accessibility to firearms. You encourage these people, many of whom have little or no law enforcement training, to open fire in crowds of people and you are courting disaster.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:51 AM

Should have said "most of whom".


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:03 PM

What is also wrong is this "Christian"(sic) pastor at a "Christian"(sic) school urging people to "end those Muslims"
implyimg, once again, that all Muslims are terrorists.

The way anti-Muslim hysteria is sweeping the U.S. its only a matter of time before we see a pogrom on Muslims with deadly consequences.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:03 PM

What is wrong is that a retired school teacher isn't competent to carry a gun. In The UK where Keith is, that wonderful law is one that normal people wish to keep, the alternative being that the terrorists have won.

In addition, the "we are Christians they are Muslims" stupidity just exacerbates the need for medieval shit to be ignored and certainly not encouraged by normal people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,#
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:29 PM

The easiest way to prevent hijackings is to give all passengers guns as they board the plane. Pat Paulsen suggested that. He was a comedian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:34 PM

I'm sure Trump or Rubio will propose that within days, Bruce. And they're NOT comedians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:51 PM

We laugh at them over here though. Our topical comedy on the telly wouldn't be the same without laughing at them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 12:51 PM

Remember that for Y2K, if you can remember back that far, this man's father believed the world was going to end and so stocked up on 9mm ammo. Everyone knows that when God pulls the plug you'll need all the ammo you can get for that Rapture thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:03 PM

What is also wrong is that the assailant should not be able to have a gun either.

Agree totally, and I am indeed lucky to live in a much safer place, but in US you have a mass shooting most weeks.

They tend to keep killing until someone with a gun finally arrives to stop them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:11 PM

"They tend to keep killing until someone with a gun finally arrives to stop them."

Which came first: the chicken or the egg? Obviously the egg.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:19 PM

Well it's a prime example of crazy not being restricted to any one religious group.

If someone wants to go through new york permit process I have no problem I guess, but sadly some states its too little training and that makes it dangerous I think


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:20 PM

Jerry Falwell? I thought he was dead. Or at least defrocked.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:41 PM

He's not a real Christian.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 02:54 PM

No he is not, you are correct guest. Every priest or pastor I know just tells everyone to pray for sanity in this troubled world. What crazy tells them to arm themselves. You better know what you aare doing before carrying a firearm.

I have no problem with fully qualified and vetted people carrying for the correct reasons and are willing to accept the responsibility to safe guard others. But damn few are at that level in some states


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 03:04 PM

"what is wrong with someone firing back at any mass shooter?"
Jeeze - he's not a gun nut as well!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:29 PM

Of course he is.

His military fascination is the clue. Presumably wasn't fit for the army. That's the usual pattern.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:36 PM

Reading up a bit I find that Jerry Falwell is indeed dead, this is his son who has the same name (maybe followed by junior). Its a bit like the Kims in North Korea I suppose.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:46 PM

Keith, let's go thru this in words of few letters so it's easy to get. A bad chap starts shooting with a gun. Let's say some good chaps have guns too so they start shooting. Then some other good guys come in cos they heard the shooting and see some chaps shooting. So they start shooting too, maybe at the good guys cos they don't know who is who. Then the good chaps start shooting back. No one's aim is very good so most of the folks they shoot had zip to do with the whole thing apart from being there. Sorry for using words of more than four letters.

This is one reason why Village Aunties are a bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:46 PM

More like the Bushes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 05:49 PM

Ooops last in response to Dave @ 5:36


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Paul Burke
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM

Keith, let's go thru this in words of few letters so it's easy to get. A bad chap starts shooting with a gun. Let's say some good chaps have guns too so they start shooting. Then some other good guys come in cos they heard the shooting and see some chaps shooting. So they start shooting too, maybe at the good guys cos they don't know who is who. Then the good chaps start shooting back. No one's aim is very good so most of the folks they shoot had zip to do with the whole thing apart from being there. Sorry for using words of more than four letters.

This is one reason why Village Aunties are a bad idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:18 PM

Keith wrote : "They tend to keep killing until someone with a gun finally arrives to stop them."

In almost all (or perhaps all) of those cases that someone is a trained law enforcement officer who knows how to handle those situations without inflicting collateral damage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:29 PM

"Onward Christian Soldiers" - Sabine Baring-Gould's hymn makes no mention of guns, or any kind of weaponry. Unfair tying it in to American gun crazies, even when they make out they are Christians.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:31 PM

Oh, please, Kevin -


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:40 PM

Hey Greg, what about "Onward Muslim Soldiers", is that cool?


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:53 PM

" what is wrong with someone firing back at any mass shooter? "

Well, when that congresswoman (and several others) was shot in Arizona a few years ago, one young man in the crowd had a gun, and was about to return fire when he realized he had mis-identified who was guilty.

If many people... say, a majority- like the NRA would like to see... carried guns, and a terrorist or crazy nut started shooting, would YOU like to be in the crowd when several... or several dozen 'concerned vigilantes' started shooting? Most people who DO carry guns have no experience in sudden emergency situations.... they 'may' know how to aim and shoot, but that is far from being competent to judge WHO to shoot at, and where innocent bystanders are.

Most terrorist or crazy person attacks come with no warning! Even dedicated 'defenders of the 2nd amendment' cannot be counted on to be in the right place and able to make the right choices under high-stress situations.
(This is different from a liquor store clerk possibly being able to stop a robbery... but even that has more sad than happy stories.)


And remember.... everyone who has NOT been judged to be crazy or a felon can currently buy guns until they DO cause a problem.... and then it's too late. This is how most of the recent major shooting have gone down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:59 PM

Well, Baring-Gould was a folkie. Solidarity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 07:11 PM

That's a very good argument, Bill, very sane. But is it as good an argument as saying that no human being, on principle, should be walking the streets with a lethal weapon in his pocket? Think about it. If the police apprehend an alleged murderous or felonious villain, they must arrest him, charge him, remand him, send him for trial in front of a judge and jury. Yet we permit people, far less qualified than anyone in the police or justice system, to carry a lethal weapon that allows them to kill on the strength of a split-second decision that could be based on just about anything other than a measured judgement. I call that insane. When I think of the power of the gun lobby, the pro-Israel lobby, the evangelical lobby and the oil lobby in your country, I seethe when I hear anyone calling your country the land of the free or the bastion of democracy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:10 PM

I think, though, that it's incorrect to view Liberty University and Jerry Falwell's son as representative of Christianity. It's not a good idea to judge any group, even Christianity, by its extremists.

Seems to me that the vast majority of educational institutions, religious and non-religious, in the U.S. oppose or prohibit carrying firearms on campus.

I was surprised that Bernie Sanders was invited to speak at Liberty University recently. Apparently, the speech went off quite well.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:29 PM

Though it's very noticeable from this end that many of your more right-wing politicians embrace, loudly at times, both Christianity and the gun lobby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:43 PM

In regard to the question above "What would Jesus carry?

He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."
? Luke 22:3


The Gospel of John states that Simon Peter cut off the ear of Malchus, the servant of Caiaphas, the high priest.[

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

I am going to attempt some extream restraint and cease visiting this cess pool, everytime I delve into this lower region I leave feeling filthy and defiled. There are some very twisted souls down here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:47 PM

As many of you may have heard - the single best day of gun sales in Americas history was reportedly last Black Friday. The day after Thanksgiving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:54 PM

Well, Wesley, Christianity can be very well compartmentalised. Why, I know several Christians around here who are very nice on Sunday mornings. *Only* on Sunday mornings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 09:59 PM

Christians are no different than atheists or anyone else for that matter. Some good, some bad. Some days are better than others. This wan't one of my best days but I'd like to think that over all I'm a pretty good person. I'll bet it's the same with the people you mentioned too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 10:42 PM

Unless something has changed in the law that I am unaware of, the federal law prohibits guns on campus. Joe is correct. Unless there is an emergency even visiting police officers had to check their firearms before entering a campus. That federal law was enacted after Kent State


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: gillymor
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 11:57 PM

Dan, here in Florida there is legislation being pushed hard by Republicans and the NRA to make concealed carry legal on state university campuses even though "university and college presidents and administrators, campus police chiefs, faculty and other education groups vehemently oppose allowing guns on campus." Click here.

I hope that there's a federal law in place to shoot this insanity down. Pardon the pun.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 01:40 AM

Gilly not good. I will have to read up on the federal law, I can't see how they can ignore it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Olddude
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 01:55 AM

Supreme Court over turned the law in 1995 leaving it up to the states. Yikes just read it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 03:38 AM

"Onward Christian Soldiers makes no reference to guns."

That's up there with The Krays were kind to their Mum.

If madrassas had children of Muslim parents singing about "marching into war" with Allah as their right, leading against the foe and other disgusting rhetoric, so called Christians would be the first to start bleating.

"Onward Christian Soldiers" was something we sang as children in school. When I was old enough to understand what I singing, that song nauseated me and still does. When you drive west out of Wakefield you still see the sign "home of Onward Christian Soldiers". Ironically, one sign is straight outside a local mosque. Dontcha luv irony?


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 04:21 AM

"marching as to war" read the words. Miss-representing Baring-Gould's words is just the same as miss-representing any other religion's "promotional material". It does not help understanding.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: GUEST,Cambrai
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:31 AM

If madrassas had children of Muslim parents singing...???


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 05:55 AM

Well, Guest, that misreading of the words, if applied, doesn't actually alter the militaristic sentiment of the hymn. Read on to the end of the first verse. Not much chance of avoiding the rather bellicose allusions, I'd say. I'd put that misreading down to a peccadillo rather than a gross misrepresentation. In other words, point taken, but don't nitpick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Onward Christian Soldiers
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Dec 15 - 06:00 AM

"Christians are no different than atheists or anyone else for that matter. Some good, some bad. Some days are better than others. This wan't one of my best days but I'd like to think that over all I'm a pretty good person. I'll bet it's the same with the people you mentioned too."

Well, not with one or two... But point taken, Wesley. It's just that atheists tend not to have pedestals they can fall off just before Sunday lunch.


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