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Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come

EBarnacle 10 Dec 15 - 01:54 PM
Joe Offer 10 Dec 15 - 02:29 PM
EBarnacle 10 Dec 15 - 03:22 PM
GUEST 10 Dec 15 - 04:46 PM
Joe Offer 10 Dec 15 - 07:36 PM
Paul Burke 10 Dec 15 - 08:06 PM
EBarnacle 10 Dec 15 - 11:15 PM
Joe Offer 11 Dec 15 - 12:15 AM
MMario 11 Dec 15 - 05:35 AM
EBarnacle 11 Dec 15 - 12:54 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Solstice Carol
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 01:54 PM

In 2003, there was a thread [Pagan carols] in which I requested a song, the first line of which was: "Back to us the Sun has come." It was supposedly from the Oxford book of Carols but perusal of the table of contents does not show any likely candidates.
Can anyone help out on this?


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Subject: Oxford Book of Carols - information
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 02:29 PM

Hi, EBarnacle. I know of two major editions of the Oxford Book of Carols. There may be more, but I haven't seen evidence of them. The first book, The Oxford Book of Carols, was published in 1928. My copy is from the thirtieth printing, 1974 - but there's no indication of major revisions in all that time. Editors were Oercy Dearmer, Ralph Vaughan Williams, and Martin Shaw. My printing has 454 pages.

The New Oxford Book of Carols was published in 1992, and I have the 1998 paperback edition. Editors are Hugh Keyte and Andrew Parrott. My copy has 702 pages, and it's chock-full of background information on all the songs - so I love it. There is also a Shorter New Oxford Book of Carols, but I don't have much use for it because it leaves out all the good stuff.

Both of these books have good first-line and seasonal indexes. I checked them quite thoroughly and didn't find anything that looks like it might be your song. But despite my due diligence, there's a fair chance your song is hiding there somewhere. I googled every whichway, but I couldn't even find your post or the Pagan Carols thread you refer to - ah, here (click) it is.

I think there's a pagan carol to the tune of "Good King Wenceslaus" in Rise Up Singing. Now, to see if I can find it.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 03:22 PM

Thanks, Joe. The person who originally sent it to me has long since lost it. In fact, when asked for it recently, he requested it from me if I can find it.


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 04:46 PM

There are a bunch here
and more

at this site


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 07:36 PM

Sorry for the delay, EBarnacle. I was interrupted by life. Happens all the time nowadays.

The song I was thinking of is Flower Carol. It's in both Rise Up Singing and the original Oxford Book of Carols The original comes from Piae Cantiones, 1582.

"Back to us the sun has come" sure sounds like it could be another verse to "Flower Carol," but it's not in the printed versions I've found or in the Latin texts. I'm thinking that "Back to us the sun has come" sounds more like a Spring Equinox carol, not Solstice - that would fit with the meaning of "Flower Carol."

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: Paul Burke
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:06 PM

GUEST 04:46 PM:

Good stuff, if a bit derivative sometimes.


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: EBarnacle
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 11:15 PM

Thank you. Please keep trying. The song is explicitly for the Winter solstice and, as I recall, did not seem to be a recasting or parody of an earlier piece despite fitting the metre of Wencelaus.


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 12:15 AM

EBarnacle, I believe there's evidence that the Flower Carol (at least in Latin) predates "King Wenceslaus," and that the good king stole his tune from the Flower Carol. Seems strange to me that "Back to us the sun has come" would make sense in a Winter Solstice carol.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: MMario
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 05:35 AM

Joe - most Winter Solstice customs are about the victory of light over the dark; the Solstice being the point that light begins to RETURN rather then leave...At the Equinox daylight and night are balanced...

"Back to us the sun has come" is the essence of the Solstice


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Subject: RE: Req: Solstice Carol-Back to Us the Sun Has Come
From: EBarnacle
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 12:54 PM

As Woody Guthrie put it, everyone steals melodies and ideas.


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