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Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka!
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Blowzabella Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:26 PM It is on the shortly to be released album 'Out on the Ocean' album by New Scorpion Band - due out next month, I think |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lighter Date: 12 Sep 04 - 01:11 PM Any chance the song was akin to Oscar Brand's "Tom Bolynn"? (A parody of "Brian O'Linn".) |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Fliss Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:20 AM 'Tom Bowling' is the second tune in Henry Wood's Fantasia on British Sea-Songs. It was played at the Last Night of the Proms yesterday. f |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: masato sakurai Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:29 AM A sheet music version at Levy is titled Poor Tom Bowling, or, The Sailors Epitaph (Philadelphia: Carr & Co.'s Musical Repository, n.d.). |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: nutty Date: 12 Sep 04 - 06:16 AM Just to avoid confusion in this thread .. The Rose of Allandale was written and performed by Charles Jefferys (1807-1865) |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Billy Weeks Date: 12 Sep 04 - 06:05 AM Metchosin 12.99: Sorry I'm late. I think the 'dirty nipper' verse is from another song, 'The Good Ship Venus' in which the cabin boy was, indeed a dirty nipper who 'stuffed his arse with broken glass and circumcised the skipper'. It may have been woven into a parody of 'Tom Bowling', but it is difficult to see how it could- er- be made to fit.. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Alan of Australia Date: 15 Dec 00 - 10:42 PM G'day, Thanks to Malcolm the tune for "Tom Bowling" can be found here at the Mudcat MIDI site.
Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Andy Will Date: 08 Dec 99 - 06:46 AM I, and some naval colleagues, recorded Tom Bowling many years ago on an LP called "Rolling Home". We were known as "Frigate". The record escaped, more than was released, and was not a great seller. I don't think there are any copies around (I don't even have one!). However, I do know it was on the Monarch record label. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Barry Finn Date: 08 Dec 99 - 12:17 AM Hi Lesley, Our RiGGy sent me a tape of a festival he did a few years back & on it he does "Can Of Grog" which he sights as Dibdin's & he did a great job of it too. Tom Lewis does Dibdin's "A Sailor's Consolation" & Dibdin's Rose Of Allendale has probably lead to at least 3 different versions passed into tradition (The Beacon Light, the Pilot & the Storm Was Loud) not to mention that it's still widely sung today at 223 years after he wrote it. Someone did a workshop on Dibdin song at Mystic a few years but but I can no longer recall the content (there's Bruce's point). I believe he was more a paid promo man for the Royal Navy rather than a songwriter that sea life, as I understand it he was knighted for the onslaught of new recruits, enticed to sign for the shilling, after being wooed by some of his sappyer songs. That in it's self would cause me to want to forget those songs if I had signed on. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Bruce O. Date: 07 Dec 99 - 06:45 PM The Bodley Ballads website has 16 copies of "Tom Bowling". Putting 'Dibdin' in the Search/Author box turns up nearly 500 sheets, but there are many duplicates. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 06 Dec 99 - 07:23 PM Barry - missed that entirely didn't I? My expertise on Dibdin isn't. Can you tell me what Dibdin songs are still being sung? I've done up The Lass That Loved A Sailor but I'd like to do others. I've been accused of putting up "obscure" songs - so it would be neat to be able to say, "obscure - heck, I have it on great authority that these are sung round the world in ships!" Even if it ain't exactly true...
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: John in Brisbane Date: 06 Dec 99 - 05:56 PM I noticed a reference to Dibdin last night in British Minstrelsie Vol 1. In a section devoted to The Art Of Singing (or similar) the author gave high praise to Tom Bowling. There was another Dibdin song in the collection but I can't recall its name. Regards, John |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Bruce O. Date: 06 Dec 99 - 01:33 PM Dibdin's title for his song was 'Poor Tom'. It's from his comic opera, 'The Waterman', 1774. There are 283 of C. Dibdin's song in the 3 vols of 'The Universal Songster', 1825-8, but I've not noticed traditional versions of any of them, but I've never looked hard for any such. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Barry Finn Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:42 PM Hi Lesley N, nope, just didn't know that the Rose Of Allendale was considered to be forgotten relic. I believe there are other of his forgotten relics that are still being sung today. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:32 PM Hullo from the other thread! The more I think about it, the more it sounds, as you say, to be a parody of the original song; but it's a bit of a mystery where we might find it. A song like this probably has a whole bunch of parodies lurking about, especially in the Navy. If anyone knows how to get in touch with Cyril Tawney nowadays, he might well know. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:30 PM Gee Barry - I'd hate to make a list of "songs that endured that shouldn't have" - there'd bound to be someone's favorites in the list (one person's junk being another's treasure)! The versions of Tom Bowline I know are the same as Tom Bowling (Frank Shay - American Sea Songs and Shanteys). I don't doubt there would be parodies of it. Rugby? No, I don't suppose they'd like a song about manly beauty or gentleness! |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Metchosin Date: 05 Dec 99 - 09:09 PM O yeah, my brother checked his copy of Captain Whall's Sea Chanties and it is not in there, so he must have found the Tom Bowline shanty in another source. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Metchosin Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:27 PM You know guys, the more I look at the lyrics of Tom Bowling, the more I'm inclined to believe that the song my grandfather sang was not Tom Bowling, but a parody of it. My mother was quite adamant that it was Johnny's Gone Aloft and her mind is still sharp at age 79. She said she recalled a reference to a Captain and that Tom was not manly but "womanly", with big blue eyes. As my grandfather only sang this song when drunk and in the company of his old ex RN buddies, I'm inclined to believe it had some naughty bits along the lines of "the cabin boy, the cabin boy, the dirty little nipper". It might also explain why my brother recalled it as Tom Bowline. Anybody recall any rugby songs along this line that might be a parody of this song? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Barry Finn Date: 05 Dec 99 - 07:57 PM "The Rose Of Allendale"?. Barry |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 07:22 PM I think Dibdin - at least the songs I know - are fairly representative of his time period. The words are dated and I think that accounts for the lack of popularity. After all, one can't, in today's day and age, talk of "His form was of the manliest beauty, His heart was kind and soft. Faithful, below, he did his duty," etc. as one used to. The songs speak of the common sailor with affection and admiration. It's easy for me to see why they were popular then. And I think they are worth a listen if only for that reason. (This from a historian not a musician!)
As to enduring - well there are a lot of folksongs that have endured that I don't like as much as I like Tom Bowling!
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Bruce O. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 06:32 PM I should have said that I don't find Charles Dibdin's songs worth remembering. I've looked at none of his tunes. Without good songs for them, why bother? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 06:19 PM Thanks for the info Bruce. Given the historical evaluation of Charles' music - seconded by yourself, I'll probably wait to sequence some more tunes before I venture into an entire book!
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: bob schwarer Date: 05 Dec 99 - 03:15 PM The X Seamans album I referred to is "Heart of Oak".the Folkways number is FTS 32419. I am not familiar with any other Dibdin tunes, but if they are as good as Tom Bowling I think you're too hard on old Chuck. Bob S. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Bruce O. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 03:09 PM Several book of Charles Dibdin's songs can be found via www.bookfinder.com. Wm. Chappell notes someplace in PMOT that Dibdin's songs were fading from memory, and Chappell thought that was due to Dibdin's composing his own tunes, rather than using accepted popular tunes. My own feeling is that they were forgotten because they were for the most part not worth remembering. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:46 PM It's already in the links! www.contemplator.com is under MIDI, the American page is under American Folk, and under English Folk the site is listed Francis J. Child Ballads - www.childballads.com (that domain is mine and it points to www.contemplator.com).. I thought about putting it under lyrics too - and I've wanted to start a shanty category and put my sea songs there (there are several neat shanty webpages)... but I decided too much duplication wouldn't be a good thing so I haven't. But now you know where it is you'll be able to find it! I have a couple of other Dibdin tunes at my site as well - The Token, Tom Tough. I have music for a few more: Jolly Young Waterman, I lock up all my treasure, Love has eyes, Lovely Nan, the Anchorsmiths, While the Lads of the Village, The Heart Should be Happy and Merry, Rose of the Valley and The Lass that Loves a Sailor. I'll probably eventually put those into midi too. As he wrote some 1200+ I'd have more material for Dibdin than for Child if I could find them all! I've read his music isn't highly regarded, but I enjoy it all the same. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Metchosin Date: 05 Dec 99 - 01:22 PM Lesley, your Charles Dibdin webpage is great! Would it be possible to post the lyrics and a link to your midi site on the Digitrad? I know how to post lyrics but I don't know how to do links yet. |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Metchosin Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:58 PM Lesley, Alan and Bob, I thank you, my mother thanks you. We'll really have some party this Christmas! When you get to be 79, material things don't count for much, but a few songs sung to you by your children and grandchildren are priceless. Alan, what is the "Last Night of the Proms" at the Albert Hall? |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Alan Francis Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:43 PM This site is b***** amazing! Post a query, and within four hours you've got a link to a site which not only plays you the tune you want, but gives you a thread to needle biog of the writer!! Knowledge is Freedom! |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Lesley N. Date: 05 Dec 99 - 12:06 PM It was written by Charles Dibdin on the death of his brother at sea. I have the tune (an information) at Tom Bowling (http://www.contemplator.com/folk/tbowling.html). |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Alan Francis Date: 05 Dec 99 - 10:52 AM Email me your address, and I'll snailmail you a photostat of the music (I have it from several sources, including a 1930's News Chronicle SongBook). Dibdin wrote both words and music, and the tune features in the Sir R R Terry collection of Sea Shanties traditionally played at the "Last Night of the Proms" at the Albert Hall, London. Alan Francis = alan_francis@bigfoot.com |
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Subject: RE: Tune Req: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: bob schwarer Date: 05 Dec 99 - 08:17 AM It's on an old X-Seaman's Institute LP. I'll dig it out later if no one comes up with a diferent source. Bob S. |
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Subject: Tom Bowling- Eureka! From: Metchosin Date: 05 Dec 99 - 05:16 AM I have been looking for the lyrics to Johnny's Gone Aloft and it turns out that it was Tom who went aloft not John. My brother thought he had seen the song in a book called Captain Whall's Sea Chanties and was possibly called Tom Bowline. Thank you Mudcat, for the link to the incredible Bodleian Library, I found it under the title of Tom Bowling! Now if someone knows the tune, we'll make it rise again, as a Christmas present to my mother, as this was one of the songs in her father's repetoire.
Tom Bowling
Here a sheer hulk lies poor Tom Bowling
Tom never from his word departed
Yet shall poor Tom find pleasant weather
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