BS: US / Iran clash

Subject: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 11:20 AM

A damaged US ship wandered into Iranian waters, and another went to fetch it. CNN News And got into trouble with the locals.

Sounds like a re-run of the Kobyashi Maru!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 01:00 PM

"Wandered" ?????

Uh- were the situation reversed, what would the U.S. have done?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 01:11 PM

A far better outcome than the last couple of incursions into their waters. Times have changed. Their regime want the nuclear deal to stick and so, dearly, does Mr Obama. I think he wants to at least leave the balance in the Middle East less polarised towards Israel and more accommodating to the Arab/Muslim nations. Not a completely tasteful thought, considering what those horrid Saudis get up to. That would be the best he can possibly do, what with hawkish and bellicose opposition from the regime in Israel and the extreme right republican factions in the US, not to speak of that horrid pro-Israel lobby, who continue to demonise Iran with all their might. I think they've lost a lot of ground. We have a different Iran these days. Not hunkydory by any means, and a long way to go, but hey, no major international incident this time.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 01:55 PM

"Wandered" ?????

Shhh! This was a planned op to gather intelligence on Iran's naval base at Farsi Island. Are you trying to blow their cover or something?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 03:19 PM

Kobayashi Maru incident. For all you students of history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N-H1lz3OJ4

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 05:26 PM

Well, someone is getting blown given the reporting I have seen in Yankee news feeds. Apparently, the Iranians are very provocative to US forces within their own territory. What a load of shite!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 05:35 PM

The incident is over. It was a tempest in a teapot, a salamander in a crock pot, a turnip in a squash patch, a Ford at a Toyota convention, lots of other stuff like that. Tosh I say, and yet again, tosh!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 05:45 PM

Ah yes, but then the whole Raison D'être of the current Republican Party is "tosh".... just take a look at their presidential contenders' spew...

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jan 16 - 06:13 PM

Well I think the US (Obama at least) and Iran have scored a big diplomatic victory over the naysayers in Israel and the far right Republican tossers In the US. They must be seething.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 01:40 AM

I'm pretty sure that the Iranians did what they did, not only to embarrass the U.S....but you can bet your bottom dollar that they tried to go through all the technological 'goodies' on the boats, before returning the sailors!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 02:42 AM

It seems like a perfectly timed accident-coinciding with Obama's last State-of-the-Union address, like it did.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 02:46 AM

Not much of a 'clash' was it?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 06:01 AM

A swift and not unhappy resolution to this affair. We're lucky to now have an administration that believes in dialogue instead of dick waving.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 07:25 AM

Come on yanks - only a couple of conspiracy theorists so far!😂

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 10:03 AM

Just give it time, Steve........

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 10:06 AM

". . . but you can bet your bottom dollar that they tried to go through all the technological 'goodies' on the boats, before returning the sailors!!"

Of course. No 'tried to go through' about it.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 05:21 PM

Yeah, I know.....I hope they had the presence of mind to destroy it, before they were boarded...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 05:35 PM

I doubt anything important was lost in the process. The US hacked Iran's weapons program some years back and the world didn't end.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 05:56 PM

Everybody is hacking everybody else, let's face it. If we hack them and they hack us, we have nothing to complain about. It's the name of the game. No outrage necessary.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 16 - 07:12 PM

Spoken like the hack, himself.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 12:36 AM

This sounds like a conversation between two trolls plotting under the bridge.....


Steve Shaw: "Come on yanks - only a couple of conspiracy theorists so far!"

Greg F.: "Just give it time, Steve........"


It is what it is....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 08:08 AM

Well you and two others backing you have tried to promote your conspiracy theory. Anything to cast Iran in as bad a light as possible. As you are doing this without any evidence at all, I suggest that you are the troll and that you should expect sarcasm at best. Why don't you save your ink and just say "They're Islamic, what more do you need?"

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 08:19 AM

Anything to cast Iran in as bad a light as possible.

Christ almighty nobody has to "cast Iran in as bad a light as possible" they do an excellent job of that themselves don't they, or have you now taken to being an admirer of repressive, dictatorial theocracies?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 08:30 AM

"have you now taken to being an admirer of repressive, dictatorial theocracies?"

Red mists and kneejerks have a habit of preventing you from checking stuff before you post. I said:

We have a different Iran these days. Not hunkydory by any means, and a long way to go, but hey, no major international incident this time.

Hands up all those who think that my comment adds up to my being an "admirer of repressive, dictatorial theocracies."

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 08:33 AM

The issue of the 'US / Iran clash' doesn't involve any people here other than as bystanders and observers. So why argue with each other? Assage and Snowden pretty much showed us what the 'world data collection' agencies are about. We know world powers of greater or lesser degrees hack, purloin, view, eavesdrop or steal data, and basically they don't care whose. It's not a surprise nor is it unexpected. It ain't news. Nothing to start a war about.

That's a general statement and not aimed at anyone.

The boat may have had instructions to drift into Iranian waters. The boat may have had mechanical troubles that caused it to happen. The mechanical troubles may have been caused. All we know so far is that the US 'broke' the rules and the Iranians capitalized on it. So what's the big deal? I expect everyone here remembers Korean Air Lines Flight 007. This is nowhere near that magnitude. The gamesmanship practised in no-fly areas should draw this much attention. That's dangerous. This is peanuts by comparison. Have a nice day all.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 09:09 AM

All true, but I wouldn't exactly say that the Iranians capitalised on it much. We've had far more capitalising with things like Greece ramping up a bit of plane-spotting by tourists into a major international incident. In this case, Iran treated a little thing as a little thing. In the current climate of wanting the nuclear deal to stick, neither side decided to ruffle feathers. Quite refreshing, actually. And I do wonder what would happen if Iran kept a few warships a few miles off New York...

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 09:14 AM

A good explanation of territorial waters from Wikipedia.

Good question, Steve. I have another hot link to post in a few minutes.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 09:21 AM

"And I do wonder what would happen if Iran kept a few warships a few miles off New York..."

I think this may answer that.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 01:17 PM

Pretty much, #, ...good link!

Ironic how Steve makes excuses for 'now taken to being an admirer of repressive, dictatorial theocracies'....but he hates the Catholic Church, as a result of the Pope, and his disenfranchisement with ALL(?) religions, whether they have anything to do with 'God' or not!!...Shit!...He even gets vitriolic with anything Spiritual or the remotest thought of it...but he will completely excuse and sympathize with his buddies, the Mullahs!

The mental illnesses of ' So-called Liberals'!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 01:37 PM

Goofus, what the f**k are you going on about now? Did you miss your nap?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 01:54 PM

It sounds final this time, Greg. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 04:09 PM

but he will completely excuse and sympathize with his buddies, the Mullahs!

Hey, anyone who pledges to wipe Israel off the map........

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 05:28 PM

You'll find dozens of posts from me on this website condemning idiots who threaten to "wipe Israel off the map". As I said earlier, you are rather prone to allowing your kneejerks and red mists to get in the way of facts. You're quite a lazy fellow, to add to all your other flaws.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 05:51 PM

Sanity and guest are correct Steve, you are a mess of double standards.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 05:56 PM

You hate the church and Christianity because you see them as an impediment to the more idiotic aspects of "liberalism"(I notice the Anglican Church refused to bow the knee yesterday), yet you applaud and excuse everything Islamic, a religion which would not stop at legislative regulation of social mores.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 05:57 PM

Well thanks for the compliment. Coming from you, that remark makes me feel incredibly good about myself. I must be doing a lot right. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 06:05 PM

Would you care to give me any examples of when I've applauded or excused everything Islamic? As a matter of fact, and here I am repeating myself ad nauseam, I regard all organised religions as malevolent and deluded, some more malevolent than others, with Islam right up there. There. Is that good enough for you?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 06:07 PM

Well bugger me sideways with a bent banana, I'm talking to YOU. A terrible accident. Sorry, universe.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 06:30 PM

The trolls jumped up on the bridge to do their troll-work...but got beat up by the other pedestrians...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 06:53 PM

What I glean from this miserable exchange is that the resident Islamophobes on this forum are really, really cross that Iran didn't torpedo the intruding yank boats, hold the yanks hostage, perhaps with a little torture thrown in, parade them on the telly wearing hoods, force them to do a grovelling apology to camera and swear allegiance to the Prophet. Well tough luck, chaps. Times are changing fast in the Middle East but your mindset isn't. And will you try to be a little honest and accept that a more benign Iran is better for Iranians, better for you yanks and a damn sight better for world peace? Or should we keep on demonising, maybe encourage Netanyahu to nuke the bastards, and go hell for leather for WW3?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 07:02 PM

Projecting again Stevie.........tsk,tsk.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 07:09 PM

Would you care to give me any examples of when I've applauded or excused everything Islamic? As a matter of fact, and here I am repeating myself ad nauseam, I regard all organised religions as malevolent and deluded, some more malevolent than others, with Islam right up there. There. Is that good enough for you?

You have called posters Islamophobe for remarks critical of Islam as well as for remarks critical of Muslim terrorists. I have not ever seen anyone make remarks critical of Muslims as a group.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 07:22 PM

So no examples of my alleged transgressions. This Guest of ours never does any homework, does she? One is tempted to suggest that this person either urinates or removes their undoubtedly pretty posterior from the potty. If the Guest is actually a male, their bottom is perhaps not quite so attractive, though it talks the same language.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 07:32 PM

In truth, the Americans would deploy some naval vessels of their own to keep an eye on things were any foreign navy to hang around its 12 mile limit. I think 20 miles would be wiser and foolish not to do because with warships the way they are and air response time from US shores, it makes a difference of two minutes, tops, and it could certainly help clear up these little misunderstanding when we know damned well the parties involved know where each other is to within a square meter or two.

Good tactics are good tactics regardless whose armed forces are involved. The key remains--as it always has--in intelligence operations and the results of the organizations' informed interpretation of what's been found out. A thing that has been a thorn to the US and most allied powers is on-the-ground information because without that the 'feeling' of the general populace--and that has major strategic importance--is not entered into the equation and then stupid-shit begins to happen.

Military involvement that includes hot warfare is anachronistic. And if all the rest isn't directed toward that end, then wtf are we all getting involved in this 'stuff' for. Read Majo General Smedly Butler's take on it. Here's a link to War is a Racket.

If you haven't read that, please do so. Little has changed since one of the more highly decorated US Marines in US history wrote it. And gi'e yer haid a skack if you think any countries are doing this shit for altruistic purposes or reasons.

Pardon me for saying, but folks have to talk with each other instead of argue and bitch. Staying on topic is a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 16 - 07:46 PM

I could agree with that. Hard to resist responding to the sniping at times, but we all have our weaknesses. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 05:42 AM

Well, that's two minutes I'll never get back.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 07:27 AM

Shaw: "Hard to resist responding to the sniping at times"

"Why don't you save your ink and just say "They're Islamic, what more do you need?""

"the resident Islamophobes"

"If the Guest is actually a male, their bottom is perhaps not quite so attractive, though it talks the same language."

Yes it is isn't it, hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 08:27 AM

I wonder whom or what gives these limeys the authority to judge americans? Is it allah or god or just plain arrogant "i am better than you" mentality?
They are descended from head choppers so it must be allah.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,#
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 10:06 AM

Steve, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Ain't too many of us left.

Of general interest, and why a broke-boat out near a island in the Persian Gulf was never going to lead to any problems that couldn't be solved with diplomacy: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35330064

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 10:27 AM

Interesting post, Ralph. Just asking myself whether I'd prefer death by head-chopping or by lethal injection or by electrocution. As it happens we limeys indulge in none of these practices. If you don't want us Brits thinking we're better than Americans, don't have a go at me. Deal with Goofus and the Guest-coward. They ain't 'alf letting your side down!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 10:27 AM

The Iranians are saying that the US sailors cried when they were detained and were released only after 'Americans humbly admitted our might and power'. Gosh, who knew.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 10:31 AM

Well if you held me captive and the only way I could get free was to humbly admit your power and might, I'd do it. Hmm. I wonder what you yanks got people to say when you were waterboarding them...

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 10:41 AM

Gosh, who knew.

Gosh, who cares?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 11:26 AM

"The Iranians are saying that the US sailors cried when they were detained and were released only after 'Americans humbly admitted our might and power'. Gosh, who knew."

'Gosh, who knew'.....Nobody....unless you were there.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 11:33 AM

I should think that they were released when the US humbly let it be known to them that if they weren't Iran could kiss their naval base on Farsi Island goodbye, but that's just a guess.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 11:38 AM

I guess it's all up to whose propaganda you believe.....the Iranians or our present administration's.......
..in other words, nobody has even the remotest clue...it's all up to whom you wish to believe....both are as reliable as a cardboard rubber!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 12:17 PM

So islamic values are perfectly ok for limeys because they prefer head chopping over lethal injection or electrocution.
Colleen Hufford, a 54 year old woman was decapitated in 2014 in Oklahoma by a 30 year old pro-Jihad Islamist, Jah'Keem Yisrael, formerly Alton Alexander Nolen. Jah'Keem reportedly began a second beheading and sliced the neck of Tracey Johnson. Jah'Keem was ultimately stopped by Vaughn Foods employee who privately kept a gun for protection.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 12:54 PM

That's a bit of a misrepresentation of what I said, isn't it, Ralph. I disapprove of head chopping just as much as I disapprove of any other way of putting people to death. To be precise, one hundred percent. You OK with that now, or do you wish to continue to provide evidence via your postings that your complaint about us superior limeys may have some substance?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 01:31 PM

Do you disapprove of Islamophobes the way you disapprove of Judaeo/Christian phobes??
Do you disapprove of hypocrisy??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 02:37 PM

I don't often venture BLL, but having done so can I congratulate Steve Shaw on retaining his sense of humour and articulacy in the face of some hilariously idiotic posts.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 03:03 PM

May I, at this point, offer my apologies for starting this discussion.
I was merely commenting on the similarities between this clash and a fictional training session for "Federation" (Star trek) staff who might find themselves crossing agreed borders in order to render humanitarian assistance.

Others have taken the discussion onward into realms I was not expecting:
"I'm a troll, fol-de-rol.
I'm a troll, fol-de-ro-ol.
I'm a troll, fol-de-rol,
And I'll eat you for my supper!"

I see no valid reason to continue viewing my discussion thread.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 03:08 PM

Ralph, probably due to a fit of rapture, has neglected to mention a few things--

Alton Nolen had only recently decided to convert to Islam, and actually seems to have a "Jesus" tattoo of some sort

Alton Nolen had a history of violence, and in fact was convicted to 5 years in prison for assaulting a police officer, before Islam. Also, he was subsequently convicted of possession of cocaine with intent to distribute. An all around nice guy...

Alton Nolen had just been fired--according to the Wikipedia article '"Injured victim Traci Johnson later claimed it was from an altercation she had with him when he stated he "[did] not lik[e] white people".' and the attacks were a retaliation for that.

And also, the person who shot him was not exactly a private citizen, he was an off-duty sheriff's deputy.

(I make this last point because the "Gun Rights" people like to advance the idea that armed private citizens are an effective deterrent to crime, so they tend to mis-label the actions of trained law enforcement personnel to build their case. Not accusing Ralphie, just sayin')

The evidence militates to the idea that Alton Nolen was an unfortunate by-product of our American Racist history, rather than anything to do with Islam.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 03:15 PM

So Nigel, where, exactly, did you expect a discussion thread that compares real world events with a Star Trek episode to lead? It's not like Little Hawk sets forth here anymore;-(

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 03:30 PM

Do you disapprove of hypocrisy??

Goofus, do you disapprove of intelligence?

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 04:47 PM

Thanks, Brian. I'll never forget winning your vinyl album in the Tree Inn folk club raffle in, oh, 1993-ish. Kudos to John and Cheryl, eh? Bet you can't remember the lanky, crap harmonica player!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 16 Jan 16 - 05:10 PM

"Goofus, do you disapprove of intelligence?"

Back under the bridge!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Brian Peters
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 07:33 AM

"Bet you can't remember the lanky, crap harmonica player!"

Seared into my memory, Steve!

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 08:34 AM

Oh dear...

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: GUEST,Ralph
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 10:36 AM

"I disapprove of head chopping" But you support Islam?

I assume you do not support homophobia either but you still support islamic values on homosexuality and head chopping.

"us superior limeys" exactly.

You can martyr yourselves and do nothing but defend islam while your country is turned into part of the caliphate that chops of the heads of unbelievers, throws homos off of buildings and views women like cattle if you want but I don't believe your were appointed by anyone to criticize and condemn anyone who disagrees with you, unless it was allah.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Greg F.
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 10:46 AM

That's Allah, Ralph.

Subject: RE: BS: US / Iran clash
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Jan 16 - 11:36 AM

Oh for Christ's sake.

I'm an atheist. I do not support Islam and I abhor many of its values. I heartily condemn any means of deliberately killing a fellow human being in cold blood. On another thread I'm arguing tooth and nail for women's rights right now. I condemn homophobia with all my might and have done many times in these threads. I don't know who you are, Ralph, but you're a pain in the backside, I know that much. You're seriously letting the side down that doesn't want to be inferior to us limeys.