Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Folklore: Origins of folk tales

GUEST,Dave 20 Jan 16 - 04:16 AM
GUEST 20 Jan 16 - 05:05 AM
Jack Campin 20 Jan 16 - 05:13 AM
GUEST,Dave 20 Jan 16 - 05:57 AM
GUEST,Dave 20 Jan 16 - 06:15 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Jan 16 - 06:41 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:




Subject: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 04:16 AM

On Radio 4 this morning, researchers from Durham University and Lisbon, were claiming that many of the common European folk tales and fairy stories (Beauty and the Beast was mentioned specifically) date from the Bronze age, and although they were first written down in the 16th and 17th centuries were passed by oral tradition for thousands of years before that. Apparantly the Brothers Grimm thought that many of their tales were very old. People reading this forum know much more about this than me, so I wondered if anyone has any views?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:05 AM

Seems to concur with the conclusion reached by probably the finest scholar of the folktale, Stith Thomson.
He wrote in his masterpiece, 'The Folktale' "This oral art of taletelling is far older than history and is not bounded by one continent or one civilisation"
The Fenian Tales of Ireland and Scotland are often linked to The Bronze Age.
For anybody interested in Folktales, I would highly recommend Stith Thomsons book - comprehensive, informative and far more readable than many
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:13 AM

One way you might infer that is by looking for variants of those stories in cultures which have been mostly speparated from each other for that long. One example might be the Nart sagas of the Caucasus:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nart_saga

The most archaic elements of those are in the versions in Northwest Caucasian languages (Abkhaz, Adyghe, Ubykh). That family (along with the Northeast Caucasian and South Caucasian groups) may be related to Indo-European but if so the divergence was more than 10,000 years ago. Since then they have had very little contact with any people from outside the area.

I don't know that much about the details of those yarns. Some of them were collected by Gogol in his "Stories from the Village of Dikanka" - the one that stuck in my mind is a horrifying variant of the Prometheus legend.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 05:57 AM

Jack, from the brief discussion it sounds as if that was indeed a large part of their methodology .

This is now on the BBC website:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35358487


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:15 AM

And the full article is here.

I havn't read the whole thing, but note that the authors do indeed cite both Wilhelm Grimm, and Stith Thompson.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Folklore: Origins of folk tales
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 16 - 06:41 AM

Can I just add, regarding Grimm.
I was lucky enough to come across the 2 volume, 'Grimm's Household Tales' with the author's' notes, edited and translated by Margaret Hunt (London 1884) - (cost me £12) a world of difference from the either anodyne or sensationalised versions freely available.
Well worth looking out for.
Folk tales are all too often watered down, reduced and produced for children when they were once very much an adult entertainment.
We were fortunate enough to spend many hours (literally) recording some of the last few of the big Irish storytellers, mainly in Clare.
We heard tales lasting well over an hour - we have had described to us a local man who would start his story on Monday night, break it off, continue it the following night, and so on, until Friday.
Malcolm Taylor was kind enough to issue a cassette of our sample of tales recorded in the British Isles and Ireland, (not just ours)
Sadly, it is no longer available, but anybody interested is welcome to a copy via Dropbox.
JIm Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 February 9:57 PM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.