BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 10:27 PM

Azurite

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=azurite%20images

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 08:55 AM

I was awake so tried as well, as our balcony (I'm on holiday) faces nicely. (An app for my iPhone shows me where to look for things too, rather good app called Skyview.)

Bloody mountains in the way.

Back to the drawing board.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 05:30 AM

I had a walk at 6.30 this morning to see the alignment.
Not a spectacle, but good to see the four planets all in a row and to know that Mercury was there too.
Strangely mild again for a clear January pre-dawn.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 05:07 AM

Donuel, I think Pan-Starrs got capital funding indirectly from the US Department of Defense, who were worried that they weren't going to be allowed to zap Russians any more and thought asteroids might be a good alternative. But I must say that its all gone quiet over there. There have been rumours of technical problems with the telescopes and/or cameras, and their web pages still say that the science mission began in May 2010, and that the second telescope is scheduled to come into operation in 2013. They found a comet recently, and there are a few papers on asteroids and transients, but not as much as you would think.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Jan 16 - 03:38 AM

Name it something that rhymes with orange. I've always wanted to know. Ah! That would point in the direction of Wales, "look see". Abergavenny "isn't it?". That there mountain they calls the Bloringe, boyo.
And how can we ignore Mr Goringe and family?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 05:55 PM

Thanks Dave, STARRS is really something but had flown under my radar despite my searches. I hope it cost less than a Mc Donald's since it used to be the search for Earth crossing asteroids had almost no budget but could be built and staffed for Mickey D money.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 02:53 PM

They'll probably debate very slowly, being at such a low temperature (unless it's huge and rocky and has a nuclear internal heat source like we do). And during the course of the debate (in which they name the planet Askmearse, which is Nonoplanetian for hell), human civilisation will have risen and fallen to extinction, and the speculation will be as fatuous as most speculation is.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 11:31 AM

What do you think the guys on dark planet 9 might be debating to name us
if they are speculating on the existence of our planet so far away, so near to the sun ?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,#
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 10:10 AM

Name it something that rhymes with orange. I've always wanted to know.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 09:29 AM

And many didn't.

Funny thing, superstition.

Of course, everything reverts to probability in the end. Don't worry Keith, I doubt anybody took your post seriously. Why start now me old duck?

If it is found, it could be called all sorts of things. Planet MGM Lion has the advantage of antiquity and most of the world being oblivious to its existence I suppose.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 05:02 AM

My last post was not meant to be taken seriously, but no need for Guest to misquote it.

Some of Velikovsky's predictions proved accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 04:37 AM

Well, I like fruitcake. And must say that those three that you name, Dave, Sitchin, Velikovsky, von Däniken, are all a bundle of fun, full of plums and currants. I remember some of the analogues van D found for the film of Chariots Of The Gods, like the astronaut in his capsule and the god [whichever it was] bundled up in that sort of sphere, were quite impressive when juxtaposed.

Heigh-ho. Sad that facts are never really as interesting as speculative fantasies, innit!

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 04:04 AM

By the way Sitchin was a fruitcake of the von Daniken/Velikovsky variety. Not taken seriously by astronomers nor by scholars of Sumeria.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 04:01 AM

It would be the International Astronomical Union. But they are unlikely to do anything about it until someone confirms and sees it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jan 16 - 01:39 AM

Never mind what the bloody Sumerians might have called it -- that doesn't "sort" anything IMO, Keith & Guest, unless anyone around here just happens to be fluent in Ancient Sumerian [☝☝-up if you are!]. Otherwise it's up to us, now, today, to find a name for this celestial manifestation that has at length insinuated itself into our consciousness.

I think "Planet MGM·Lion" has just the right sort of ring to it. Are you listening, Mr Astronomer-Royal, or NASA, or UN, or Whoever·the·Hell's job it is to choose the name anyhow...?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 06:10 PM

"In the sumerians tafleds it is called Nemesis" - clever of them to use a Greek word a couple of thousand years before anyone had heard of the Greeks.

It's obvious that anything that big, no matter how far away, is bound to be aimed right at us, now. The fact that Earth has been around four and a half billion years without it troubling us is irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 01:33 PM

There is a suggestion that its orbit is at a 30 degree tilt to our inner planets. The elliptical orbit may be 100 billion miles from the sun and as close as 20 billion miles.

At 8 to 10 Earth masses at such a distance makes this target very dim.
Also a telescope with a wide field of view with high power, the LSST, with 32,000 megapixel camera is still under construction.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 05:27 AM

Sitchin's 1976 book the Twelfth Planet concluded, based on his study ancient Sumerian texts, that an additional planet exists at the edge of the solar system, which the ancient civilisation called "Nibiru".

So that's already sorted.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 05:09 AM

Donuel, there is also Pan-Starrs.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: TheSnail
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 04:55 AM

Since it's beyond Pluto how about Bowowie?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 04:11 AM

USS Andrex

Flies round Uranus wiping out Klingons.

(Sorry, got bored waiting for someone to say it.)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 03:16 AM

If it's that far out, call it Palin. LOL

Can't Trump that!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jan 16 - 12:17 AM

Mention of Mr Connolly leads to thought that it might be called The Big Yin.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: skarpi
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 09:45 PM

In the sumerians tafleds it is called Nemesis , also there is knowing of a planet that goes it s orbit 36 thousamd years , not long ago a telescope in chile toldabout two opjects that are entering our solarsystem , now that is not in the media , this nine numer planet is 10 times the mass of our earth ,if this planet goes around our sun and goes by earth then god jelp us because that planet have strong gravity hope am wrong

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 08:02 PM

The biggest joke in our house in the last 40 years has been "Shall we just go outside and have a good look at Uranus?" Mind you, talking about jokes, I'm nearly dead from laughing, having just got back from Hammersmith Apollo where we saw Billy Connolly. I think the new planet should be called Big Bill. I think my favourite bit from the show was when he said that he doesn't use the word "cunt" much, tending to reserve it for the guy at the airport who won't use the travelator but who tries to keep up by walking fast next to it. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 07:35 PM

nah...a planet... even one 10 times bigger than Earth.. is still far too small to merit the name "Bowie" !!!

A mega colossal super heated burning bright star, or an entire galaxy... that would be the least required.... 😎

Though definitely worth considering calling this new planet "Lemmy"...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 05:56 PM

How long before some prat.. Oh, Shimrod already did.

Nice to see a cluster or other being named Starman. Presumably jamming good with weird black holes.

This planet has been hinted at for a while now. Wobbles where not expected and all that. Not to mention that we have found a few planets broken free of any orbits of sky star and are wandering in the true sense. (Greek link, as planets were observed to be doing.). Their distances are in light years but just be bloody huge if we can detect them but not this.

All fascinating stuff. I'd call it Dave too. Possibly in homage to my Co Messiah with gnomish attributes. Probably getting a mental image of my brother Dave (still haven't worked out which planet he orbits) or to be honest, BOWIE!!!👻👻👻

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 05:47 PM

The predicted orbit of this undiscovered planet is highly elliptical and could give us clues as to where to look. It is at a 30 degree offset from the plane of the inner 5 planets. It is as far as 100 billion miles and as close as 20 billion miles and has a mass of about 8 to 10 Earth masses.

A 'year' for this possible ice rock planet could be about 20,000 years or longer. The only certainty now is that we have a lot more to learn about interactions and planet sized objects in the Kuiper Belt

Dave don't we have other wide field telescopes today that have a chance over time of finding this faint thing but the LSST's 32,000 mega pixel camera is 100 times better in the short run?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 11:50 AM

It's called Dans excellent planet. Did I mention lots of fish, but they all look like trumps face sadly

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 11:17 AM

"How long before some prat demands that we call it 'Bowie'?"

Hmmm.

'Bowie".

I like that. That could work. Jolly fine suggestion Shim me lad!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 09:46 AM

Pluto the dog was named after the planet. (now KBO)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: frogprince
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 09:42 AM

If it's that far out, call it Palin.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 09:13 AM

Then why don't they call it Goofy?

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 09:03 AM

It is about seven times further out than Pluto.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 08:56 AM

train fares would be astronomical

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 08:39 AM

Travel at a constant 1G and Pluto is about a week away, including flip-over. Y'all are bright and can do math and I'm old and learned old math -- so how long to get to this newbie?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Mr Red
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 04:04 AM

has it got central heating?
Is the power source nuclear?
Hmmm. I'll stay in the UK - it is rather mild for the time of year here.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jan 16 - 12:10 AM

Naw but I have all the turns written down.. Elvis has a house there. He is doing fine, he faked the passing away part so he could take an extended vacation. For him he has only been away for a day or so cause of the long drive

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:15 PM

would you trust GPS for directions ?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:14 PM

Only bad part is it's a heck of a long drive to get there

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:10 PM

Jello doesn't exist there but pizza does and banjo players are welcome also.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 11:08 PM

And chocolate everywhere

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 10:08 PM

what, no chocolate?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: olddude
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 08:53 PM

It's mine, it's all mine, my planet I say. It's a free planet... Beer, cigs, music, weed.. It's got no political parties... It has puppies and kittens.. It's mine but I will share

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 07:47 PM

Add to that that a 20000 year orbit isn't far off the 25000 or so year shift in the background stars (from here) because of the precession of the equinoxes. Planet's etymology is wanderer; and it doesn't wander much. So it could actually be hidden in plain sight (with a big telescope).

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:15 PM

The evidence for this planet is found in a clustering of the perihelion positions of the six most distant solar system objects in a particular direction on the sky, and the hypothesis is that they are counterbalanced by a massive planet whose perihelion position lies in the opposite direction. However this direction not very well constrained, and as far as I can see there is no evidence as to where this planet might be on this supposed orbit. So when they say they have a vague idea of where it might be, they do mean vague, and it could be anywhere in about half of the sky. Large telescopes have small fields of view, even survey telescopes which are designed for searches have a field of view of about 40 square degrees. Thats about one thousandth of the area of the sky.

There are some smaller facilities with fisheye lenses and things which can survey the bright stars in the sky over a wider area. So lets work out how bright this thing will be.

Lets assume it is like Neptune in terms of size and albedo (the fraction of light it reflects). Planets are only seen in reflected sunlight, they do not shine by themselves. It seems from the paper that the distance from the sun is likely to be about 10 times that of Neptune but its also 10 times as far from us as Neptune. And inverse square law being what it is, that means its a factor of 10 to the power 4, or 10,000, fainter than Neptune.

Astronomers work in magnitudes, Neptune is an 8th magnitude object (not quite visible to the naked eye), this new planet will be 18th magnitude.

This is well within the capability of even modest sized survey telescopes, but not one of these fisheye lens things. The main reason being that there are loads and loads of stars in the sky of this magnitude. Technically the fisheye things will be confusion limited.

Also, how do you know that you have seen it? You have to see it move is how, but it moves pretty slowly, it will be moving at a hundredth of the apparent rate of motion of Neptune (a factor of 10 because of Kepler's laws, and another factor 10 because of projection). So you have to look at the same patch of sky repeatedly for things that move very slowly.

If it exists the Large Synoptic Survey Telescope
will be the thing to find it, but thats not ready yet.

But I have my doubts. Six is not a huge number of orbits to base such a supposition on, and the probability they work out for this alignment to happen by chance is not very meaningful because they are working it out for a configuration that they have already observed (a posteriori statistics). I wonder whether Dr. Mike Brown, well known demoter of Pluto, has a funding review due.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 04:00 PM

Dave O,

Thank you for the explanation. I still find it a little bizarre though!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 01:23 PM

Planet Baraka.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: Mrrzy
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 01:20 PM

Whoever discovered it still gets to name it, right?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Ninth planet' may exist in solar system
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jan 16 - 10:31 AM

Raggytash, (post 6:08 a.m.) the instruments used for cosmological searches and imaging (as for new galaxies and black holes) are
wonderful, but designed and useful just for that work. They are not useful for searching for "near" objects within the solar system.

What's more, the training, interest, and protocols of
the high-powered astronomers (cosmologists) who use
those instruments don't focus on such objects as the
planets, even a "new planet" like number 9.

Dave Oesterreich