BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 04:38 AM

Steve, most of the year you must get very cold outside with just a short sleeve shirt on.
Wristbands are much smaller and more discreet than armbands whatever you wear.

Rag, not one thing in your last post is true.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 04:50 AM

"Rag, not one thing in your last post is true" Hmmm OK Keith how's about the following:

Subject: RE: BS: All inclusive holidays
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Feb 16 - 03:19 AM

Some excellent tips here on how to take advantage and beat the wristband system in all inclusive hotels.

http://thetravelingwizard.com/cancun-and-the-wristband-economy/

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:02 AM

I did not espouse the virtues of fraud.
I said there were some tips on how it might be done, especially suited for Texans in Mexico.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:11 AM

I suppose that's why you said there were some EXCELLENT tips on how to TAKE ADVANTAGE and BEAT the wristband system.




Incidentally this demonstrates my first point which was you do not acknowledge you have made a mistake.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:12 AM

There is a significant difference between wrist and armbands, armbands are not an issue in this case, and it was dishonestly misleading for Jim to keep describing them as arm bands when they are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:17 AM

I am sure that the tips are excellent.
I do not espouse their use, but it was relevant to point out that bands are not impervious to abuse.

No mistake, like confusing arm bands with wrist bands, or claiming the wrong programme, or claiming I said UK hotels require wrist bands, or claiming that I requested posts be deleted or that mods would take any notice if I did!

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:22 AM

I suspect you're not even convincing yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:59 AM

Wrong again Rag.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 06:09 AM

Yes I suppose I am wrong with that last comment. You can convince yourself of anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 06:11 AM

" Insubstantial errors of that kind made in haste are hardly earth-shattering."

Well for most of the time Shaw you and your pals DtG, GUEST Raggytash; Musket and Carroll seem to think so. But as stated previously - There is one law for the Goose and another for the Gander.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 06:26 AM

For Shaw's benefit:

"An armband is a piece of material worn around the arm over the sleeve of other clothing if present. They may be worn for pure ornamentation to mark the wearer as belonging to group, having a certain rank or role, or being in a particular state or condition. Spring armbands have been used by men to keep overlong sleeves from dropping over the hands and thereby interfering with their use.[1] Armbands may also refer to inflatable armbands used to assist floatation for swimmers."

An Armband (Infamous)

Now here are wristbands:

Event and security wristbands

No comparison or equivalence at all really but Shaw knows that as does everyone else reading this thread, but Shaw does love to argue no matter how ridiculous he makes himself look. His ethics seem to be based on double standards and hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 09:30 AM

Why don't you tell me what you really think? :-)

I do not possess a single long-sleeved shirt of any description. In cool weather I wear a sleeveless gilet (Mountain Warehouse) over a short-sleeve shirt. In cold weather I chuck a waterproof on top. I live in a place where the daytime maximum rarely fails to reach 10°C, even in mid-winter. I estimate that, when I'm out and about, any wristband attached to my person would be visible for all to see on at least 320 days of the year. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 10:20 AM

Steve, some form of id is needed for people receive what they are entitled to.
Wristbands are usually considered a cheap and effective option.
The alternative is cards.

If that is what they prefer, they should have them, but why assume as Jim does that wristbands were deliberately chosen by the government to persecute these people?

That is his whole argument, and you seem to be cheering him on however many falsehoods he states as facts to back his case.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 12:48 PM

"Shaw does love to argue no matter how ridiculous he makes himself look."

Here is what Shaw thinks represents the norm in the UK as he spins in ever decreasing circles to support his rather dubious claim that Armbands are the same as Wristbands:

"I do not possess a single long-sleeved shirt of any description. In cool weather I wear a sleeveless gilet (Mountain Warehouse) over a short-sleeve shirt. In cold weather I chuck a waterproof on top. I live in a place where the daytime maximum rarely fails to reach 10°C, even in mid-winter. I estimate that, when I'm out and about, any wristband attached to my person would be visible for all to see on at least 320 days of the year."

Only one word comes to mind - PRAT.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 02:12 PM

Told youi I'd be back
First an apology to all
On Tuesday Feb 2nd I wrote
"The Yellow Star comparison is not mine, in fact a Jewish speaker on last week's Question Time made exactly the same comparison - she raised the question of it being a 'pilot scheme' also".
It transpires that though I saw the lady say what she said, it is quite likely it was not on Question Time – I was TV surfing while the ads were on and assumed it was Question Time – it was possibly another programme – five days had elapsed between seeing and posting.
1 I apologise for my mistake on two counts:
That it might have created confusion in the minds of people who have difficulties with long postings and big words.
2 That my mistake has given Keith a reason for avoiding the subject of this thread by accusing me of lying.
I don't lie, make things up or distort facts – I see no point in doing so and Keith's and any of his few friends' inept idiocy makes such effort entirely unnecessary anyway
My mistake makes little difference – it was said and I was delighted that a Jewish person empathised with a group of asylum seekers, comparing their position to that of her own family in 1930s Europe; which was basically why I put it up in the first place.
I have since scoured the net to see if any other members of the Jewish community have done likewise– either to give support to the asylum seekers, or to object to the comparison – sadly, they haven't.
A warning for the future to all concerned (no names, you understand);
If you call me or anybody a liar again – ever – I will systematically sort out every lie you have told and every distortion you have made and put them up in full – would probably take me up to Monday to go through the number of times you have claimed, first all hotels in Britain, then all 4 star hotels in Britain, then Hotels in Shark Bay and Sharm el Sheik.... et al, force customers to wear armbands which have to be cut off when leaving.
After that, my choice is endless – WW1, Israel, Ireland, Homs, "all British male Pakistanis"........ all full of untruths and distortions.
May as well start as I meant to continue:
Jim Carroll - PM
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 12:59 PM
" Keith A did not lie Fact"
Yes he did - he claimed 4 star hotels made their customers wear armbands that need ed to be cut off on leaving - any takers on that one?Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 30 Jan 16 - 06:46 AM
"No I did not."
Keith A of Hertford - PM Date: 30 Jan 16 - 06:46 AM
"That is the point of wristbands
They stay on. ."
At hotels they cut them off when you check out.
No-one else can use them because cutting invalidates them."
Right – teatime
I'll be back – as Arnie was heard to remark – though he probably doesn't watch Casualty!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 02:25 PM

you have claimed, first all hotels in Britain, then all 4 star hotels in Britain, .... , force customers to wear armbands

Lies Jim. Why not quote me?

WW1, Israel, Ireland, Homs, "all British male Pakistanis"........ all full of untruths and distortions.

I look forward to seeing the quotes Jim, but I will not hold my breath!

the practice of FORCING, asylum Seekers to wear armbands

Wristbands not armbands.

AI hotels that use wristbands do remove them on checkout. (See the link on the holiday thread)
No-one is forced to wear them, but you would not be able to access your entitlement very easily without one.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 03:29 PM

I have done Keith - read what I have put up
"I look forward to seeing the quotes Jim, but I will not hold my breath!"
I will PM your quote for fear of having this thread closed,
You have denied making it a dozen times, then, when it is put up, you have blamed somebody else for putting it up to you
If anybody else here would like copies of our PMs, I will be happy to supply them
This goes with anything I P.M. to Keith.
I'm doing this in order to avoid our arguments closing or interrupting this or future discussion - there is no reason, as far as I'm concerned that anybody interested should not see them - if curious, P.M. me.
"Wristbands not armbands."
Makes no difference to a gang of racist thugs wandering the streets looking for victims
Either are identifying markers singling out asylum seekers, which is basically why they were re removed (no forgetting public indignation, of course.
"Lies Jim"
Chapter one
"Wristbands are a very common way of identifying which people are entitled to which perks.
You wear them in 5* all inclusive hotels!"
"All the well known Hotels, e.g. Hilton, use wrist bands.
There would be long queues at the bars if anyone who turned up was given free drink."
!"Yes it was. The bands were not given to all immigrants, only those with an entitlement.
Some form of identification is necessary.
IT WAS COMPULSORY TO WEAR THEM AT ALL TIMES, INSIDE AND OUT - IT WAS A FORM OF TAGGING - NOTHING MORE
That is the point of wristbands.
They stay on.
At hotels they cut them off when you check out.
No-one else can use them because cutting invalidates them.
They can not be lost or stolen, unlike cards."
NO HOTEL HAS EVER INSISTED THAT GUESTS WEAR ARMBANDS AT ALL TIMES WITHIN OR OUTSIDE THE PREMISES - EVER; NO HOTEL WOULD DARE - NO CUSTOMER WOULD CONTEMPLATE BEING FORCED TO WEAR AN ARMBAND THAT HAD TO BE CUT OFF - EVER
These claims are all made up la-la fantasy - can you provide links to examples of this compulsion ever being used in hotels in Britain
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 06 Feb 16 - 05:07 PM

Question.

Am I alone in noting that certain members are not participating in the defence of the undefendable.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:11 AM

The argument/ discussion has long since been won by Keith and others who support his views on the matter.
Pointless to keep repeating what should be obvious.
I presume Keith only persists to refute the distortions.

The main point of the thread was to prove a conspiracy theory, all sensible people reading this thread will have come to the conclusion that such a stance is nonsensical.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:51 AM

"The argument/ discussion has long since been won by Keith and others who support his views on the matter."
No it has most certainly not been - nobody other than your gang has bothered to stay around and none but you band of brothers has expressed support for this vile and now abandoned practice - that's the way these arguments go.
Neither of you has addressed the compulsory nature of these non-electronic identification tags, and you have ignored the
and neither have you even bothered to acknowledge the affect they had on the people forced to wear them.
You appear to be claiming victory on peoples' silence here as Keith has done elsewhere on other subjects.
The practice, along with that of putting identification plaques and painting doors a single colour has been universally condemned by all but the extreme right (such as yourselves).
You, at leas, have made it clear that your sympathy lies with the racist vandals rather than the asylum seekers
"The truth of the matter is, that in pooper areas it is almost impossible for a young couple to get a house, when they see houses being specially refurbished and given to AS for free; they rightly or wrongly come to the conclusion that they are being victimised to serve a political agenda.....this has been happening for a number of years.   the present charade is a media smokescreen to divert public opinion from the real problem."
Keith has yet to come out of his closet and blame the Asylum seekers for their predicament.
Hi La-La world of hoteliers forcing their customers to wear armbands that have to be cut off, in order to be fed is the only defence he has put up for this disgusting practice - it has been shown to be both dehumanising and dangerous for the wearers, it has been abandoned and is only defended now by those who have defended similar examples of abuses of human rights in the past.
You want to argue Ake - address the reality of the situation.
These Asylum Seekers have fled regimes who routinely persecute and threaten only to be met with the similar persecution and threats from our own home-grown thugs.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 04:18 AM

It is common practice in hotels, certainly those I've stayed in in the Mediterranean, to issue non-removable WRIST-bands (not ARM-bands, Jim - stop pretending to be thick) to guests who are staying with them on an 'All-Inclusive' basis. They are similar to the wrist-bands which UK hospitals put on in-patients. They denote the entitlement of the wearer to the benefits of 'All-Inclusive' terms, which are not available to guests who are staying on other bases. They can't be removed and replaced for reasons which are obvious but, since some seem incapable of understanding, I'll explain - it's to stop A-I guests 'lending' them to non-A-I guests in order for the non-A-I guests to avail themselves of benefits to which they are not entitled. At the end of the wearer's stay, the wrist-band is easily removed by cutting with scissors.

This is fact - I have witnessed it, and discussed the purpose and use of these wrist-bands with A-I hotel guests many times in the (mostly Greek/Cyprus/Corfu) hotels I've stayed in.

Using any kind of visible indicator, be it a badge, wrist-band, arm-band or a fucking tattoo on the forehead, to indicate membership of any social or socio-economic group, and evidencing entitlement to benefits allocated to those groups clearly would lay the wearer open to abuse by those who resent those groups and, IMO, the very idea is to be deplored.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 04:54 AM

"I've stayed in in the Mediterranean, to issue non-removable WRIST-bands (not ARM-bands, Jim "
We're not talking about the Med, this is about Cardiff - about as far away as you can get from Crete.
At no time have we encountered the practice of asking guests to wear wristbands at anytime, at the bar or anywhere in a British or Irish hotel - never - and this includes the few highly starred hotels like the Shelbourne in Dublin or the Hilton at Stanstead, we have stayed in.
I agree with your final sentence wholeheartedly but would add that the act of forcing asylum seekers to wear identification tags of any form, openly or covered by clothing places them at risk.
Sure - if they need to produce identification for official purposes or to obtain services - no problem - we are all in this situation, but this is different.
These people are already open to abuse and attacks, and many have been traumatised by recent experiences, without adding to their problems.
There have been cases of actual and threatened abuse taking place, the pracices of marking homes with plaques, same-colour front doors and the forcible wearing of identification at all times has been abandoned as an obvious thread - it seems sheer, bloody-minded inhumanity to continue to defend those practices.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 05:39 AM

Jim, wristands are the standard way hotels identify AI guests.
UK hotels do not offer such holidays.
Everything I said on the subject was true.

Your pm quoted me describing an over-representation of a demographic in a certain crime, which is well established and not a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 06:27 AM

"UK hotels do not offer such holidays"

Wrong Again

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 06:48 AM

"Jim, wristands are the standard way hotels identify AI guests."
Not in Britain they're not - in any circumstances
If there is any doubt of what you are entitled to you are politely asked to identify yourself by your room number, which is checked by your name.
"Everything I said on the subject was true."
No it wasn't - it was total fantasy and had it been true, has nothing to do with yte attempted identification of impoverished asylum seekers (unless you are suggesting they should be housed at The Ritz!!)
"Your pm quoted me describing an over-representation of a demographic in a certain crime,"
Your response to a tiny number of crimes against underage girls was to describe it as due to a "cultural implant"
No here Keith - happy to provide the whole kit and kaboodle to anybody interested.
Don't call me a liar again or I will put up more.
Address the points made - no your Alice in Wonderland fantasies.
Off with his head!!! (whoops sorry Mike - wasn't that Alice Through the Looking Glass?)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 06:59 AM

No, you had it right, Jim -- it was the Queen of Hearts in Wonderland, not the Red Queen in Looking-Glass Land. She was the one who declared, when Alice said she had lost her way, "I don't know what you mean by your way. All the ways round here belong to me": which, if has ingeniously been suggested (see Wikipedia &c) is a reference to the fact that the Queens are the only chess pieces that can move as far as possible in a straight line in any direction.

≈M≈

One must beware of over-interpreting the 'Alice' books; OTOH, Dodgson/Carroll had something of the same reputation of my o-so-humble self, as being something of an

Official Legendary Pedant

≈M≈ OLP

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 07:44 AM

"No, you had it right, Jim --"
Must brush up on the classics {mind you the present series of 'War and Peace' has saved me a large slice of my life! Probably would never have managed it)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:45 AM

Jim, I started to re-read the whole thread to try to find where your nemesis had claimed specifically that UK hotels use wrist-bands in order to differentiate between classes of customer, or earmark customers who are more- or less worthy than others, but I began to lose the will to live, such is the level of bollocks, bullshit and plain, straightforward Terry-Fuckwittedness flying around.

Could you point me to the post in which he made that claim please, as my perception has been throughout that he was referring to **some** hotels of which he has experience, but which are not necessarily in the UK. Even though you may not have come across wrist-bands issued by hotels to denote specific classes of guest, you have my absolute, firm assurance that I have - although these have been in hotels in Mediterranean holiday resorts, not in the UK.

On the subject of identification of certain classes of UK immigrant who may be entitled to certain benefits, would it not be acceptable to issue such persons with a 'credit-style' card, along the lines of the Driving Licence Photocard? Clearly, such people might need to be able to prove their entitlements from time to time, what would the problem be with such a card?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 08:53 AM

"On the subject of identification of certain classes of UK immigrant who may be entitled to certain benefits, would it not be acceptable to issue such persons with a 'credit-style' card, along the lines of the Driving Licence Photocard? Clearly, such people might need to be able to prove their entitlements from time to time, what would the problem be with such a card?"

Ah an I.D. Card no-less - Didn't the "liberal-left" find those objectionable too and an affront to civil liberties?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 09:26 AM

There is a big difference between being forced at all times to carry an ID card with tons of data on its strip and carrying a simple means of identifying yourself in circumstances where you may be asked to confirm who you are. I can use the bus for free - as long as I show my bus pass (which has my fizzog beaming from it). When I go to the Eden Project, if I don't want to pay the entry fee I have to show my annual Locals' Pass. If I want a third off my rail fare I have to show my Senior Railcard. It should not be beyond the wit of the powers that be to devise a cheap, simple and discreet way for asylum seekers to show that they are entitled, without stigmatising them into the bargain. Yes a compulsory ID card is an affront to civil liberties. The non-removable wristband is much more akin to that than anything Backwoodsman suggested.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 09:38 AM

"had claimed specifically that UK hotels use wrist-bands in order to differentiate between classes of customer,"
He hasn't, as far as I know - in fact he hasn't given a reason for his comparing the situation of Asylum Seekers with that of 5* hotel customers (nor has anybody)
He began by referring to it as "common practice" in British Hotels then retreated to "Sharm" (el Sheik, presumably) and Shark Bay (haven't bothered to look that one up).
Quite honestly, I have no interest what hotels do - I've travelled fairly widely in Britain, Ireland, Europe, North Africa, and a couple of times, into Asia (though not far in) -
At no time have I experienced enforced armbands not even in the half- dozen ex-Communist countries I visited - though I am willing to bow to the experience of those who have.
My point throughout is that none of this has the slightest to do with asylum seekers being laid open to humiliation, abuse and even violence.
The practice has been, rightly discontinued - Britain's reputation regarding how we behave towards foreigners is, in my opinion, bad enough, without these people adding to it.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:05 AM

I haven't experienced enforced armbands either, Jim. But I have experienced wristbands that All-Inclusive guests are issued with - not in the UK hotels I've stayed in, but definitely in Greek/Corfian/Cypriot/Cretan hotels. In all honesty, I can't swear that wearing those is compulsory, but they are very definitely issued for ease of identification of A-I guests in the restaurants, bars and other hotel facilities.

So, if your nemesis hasn't specifically mentioned wristbands being used in UK hotels, why do you keep prattling on interminably about them in UK hotels - presumably it's a manifestation of your OCD where he's concerned? (To be fair, I think he's also OCD where you're concerned, so you're both as bad as one another AFAIC).

BUT....I completely agree with you in respect of the humiliation and abuse of immigrants/asylum-seekers, and I'm convinced that a simple card similar to a driving licence or buss-pass is a suitable solution.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 11:56 AM

"So, if your nemesis hasn't specifically mentioned wristbands being used in UK hotels,"
He started of by saying "all hotels" then reduced it to 5*star ones
In my opinion, it's totally ludicrous to compare 5* customers to asylum seekers - but that's Keith!!
To compare what happens in Middlesborough and Cardiff to luxury Hotels in Israel is just malicious stupidity.
His classic, paints a picture of *5 customers huddled together in a starving bunch because they's lost their armbands - a sort of bizarre remake of Bunuel's 'Exterminating Angel'.
"Wristbands are a very common way of identifying which people are entitled to which perks.
You wear them in 5* all inclusive hotels!
It would not help anyone if all the food disappeared before those actually entitled to it arrived."
This is an exercise in tagging asylum seekers - the way it was done was found to be degrading and dangerous so it was abandoned (after nationwide protests).
Keith and Ake continue to defend it - this has nothing do do with how 5* hotels operate, neither did Keith's starting a new thread on 'all-inclusive-holidays - it has everything to do with how we treat asylum seekers.
Ake let the cat out of the bag with his gesture of understanding for those who target asylum seekers and all immigrants - none of which he has ever offered to their victims.
Those who wish to defend this practice need to do so on the basis of what is happening on the streets Britain - not on what happens in 5* hotels on the other side of the planet - little sign of it here
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:09 PM

He started of by saying "all hotels" then reduced it to 5*star ones

His first post in this thread is 29 Jan 16 - 06:17AM. He says

"Wristbands are a very common way of identifying which people are entitled to which perks.
You wear them in 5* all inclusive hotels!"

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:17 PM

Comprehension of the written English language has never been a strong point of Jim Carroll's. He only sees and reads what he wants to see and read and he never lets actual fact get in the way of whatever myth he happens to be peddling.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:18 PM

I'll not pay hundreds, or thousands, of pounds to go to a holiday venue where they fasten non-removable wristbands on people. I understand from a mate of mine who's much given to going on cruises that certain cruise companies insist on frisking your bags every time you re-board the ship in case you're trying to smuggle onboard the cheap booze that you bought onshore, presumably to force you to buy the grossly-overpriced stuff they sell onboard. When I pay out good money to go on holiday, I'm paying to go on a free-and-easy holiday, not a bloody boot camp run by little Hitlers, thank you very much. Asylum seekers are usually doing the very last thing they want to be doing, often people who have lost everything. We must treat them with kindness, not make them look and feel like criminals. Which is exactly how I would feel if I had to flash my wristband to get my all-inclusive dinner or if I were being frisked for booze that I've bought perfectly legally. Cheeky bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:21 PM

Tiresome, mealy-mouthed, empty sniping, Guest-coward. Just grow up, will you.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:27 PM

"I understand from a mate of mine who's much given to going on cruises that certain cruise companies insist on frisking your bags every time you re-board the ship in case you're trying to smuggle onboard the cheap booze that you bought onshore, presumably to force you to buy the grossly-overpriced stuff they sell onboard."

So it would have nothing whatsoever to do with International Maritime Organisation ISPS Code 2003 requirements then.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:39 PM

Steve Shaw - 07 Feb 16 - 12:21 PM

Not at all Shaw merely stating an observation on the obvious, but here we have the rules for Goose and Gander again - no baying pack climbing all over Carroll's back pulling him up on his false inaccurate made up quotes.

Or do you really actually think that "all hotels" is the same as " all inclusive hotels" - Personally I read quite a difference in comparing the two. It was you who once banged on about the importance of education wasn't it Shaw?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 12:48 PM

Nope, nothing to do with that. Different cruise companies have different policies. Look it up before you post your nonsense. Regard your research as part of your education. And the post I commented on was pure sniping with no substantive content. My comment made no reference to Jim or to anyone else. You are just bitter and twisted about something or other, you poor soul. Just off to put my risotto on. See you later.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:15 PM

"Different cruise companies have different policies."

IMO ISPS Code 2003 happens to be mandatory Shaw and requires searches on any baggage taken ashore and then brought back onboard. But as you have never taken such cruises you'd best ask your mate or better still do a bit of research as part of YOUR education.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:29 PM

So, are we all agreed that a 'Bus-Pass-style' photo-card, which could be kept out of view until required to be shown, would be an acceptable means for those immigrants/refugees/asylum-seekers who are eligible for certain necessary 'benefits' (like food to keep them and their children alive!) to assure the providers of those 'benefits' of their eligibility?

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:39 PM

Absolute nonsense. I've been on many mini-cruises, always bought a few bottles of El Coto Rioja ashore and no-one has ever checked my bag or anyone else's. Look up the different cruise companies' booze policies on Cruise Critic, why don't you. Mind you, my making you red-faced isn't going to help your demeanour, so I suppose we'll get even more of your frustrated ill-temper. Excuse me, time for the mantecura...

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:44 PM

Yes of course.
Wrist bands would be much simpler, cheaper, and quicker to replace if lost, but if that makes them vulnerable then obviously something else is required.

There is certainly nothing to judtify Jim's claim that this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 01:46 PM

My "Yes of course" was agreeing with Bwm before Steve's post.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 02:45 PM

Well I wouldn't want you agreeing with me. As for cheaper, well if we can afford HS2, Trident, bankers' bonuses and massive tax perks for big corporations and non-dorms, we can well afford a solution for asylum seekers that doesn't demean them.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 02:46 PM

Non-dorms? I wasn't referring to the bedroom tax. Let's say non-doms.

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:02 PM

"Comprehension of the written English language has never been a strong point of Jim Carroll's"
And common sense doesn't seem to be yours
If you are talking about how asylum seekers are being treated on the streets of cardiff, you don't expect their lot to be compared to 5* Star hotels anywhere
Elsewhere he has written:
Keith A of Hertford - PM   Date: 29 Jan 16 - 10:23 AM
"All hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" use wrist bands.". - "all" hotels where - Ulan Bator, maybe?
Or aren't there "hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" in Britain?
The reference was to "All hotels"
If you can't be intelligent, why not try to cover up your ignorance by being nice?
Little wonder you wish to remain anonymous - why do all of you sound like Bearded Bruce - he's ashamed of his identity too..... now that I think on it....!
"Jim's claim that this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers"
I claim no such thing - I do not discount the possibility, politicians being what they are.
Far too many coincidences to be ignored - armbands, plaques, red front doors, Tories leaping up to defend the practice - and to top it all - you and Ake - two of our most enthusiastic establishment arse-lickers.
There have ben numerous calls for enquiries on both the armbands and the front doors - yet you and your little Klan of Brothers still support the practices.
Where have I ever claimed that "this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!"
I said it might have been a pilot scheme to tag them in some way - that is nott persecution - it is identifying them apart from the rest of the population - tagging them, in fact.
Stop making things up - honesty is not a word that springs to mind when describing you as it is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:44 PM

Or aren't there "hotels offering 5* "All Inclusive" in Britain?

No. There are not Jim.

The reference was to "All hotels"

No. The reference was to "All hotels offering 5* All Inclusive"

Where have I ever claimed that "this local arrangement represents a government policy to persecute asylum seekers!"

In all these quotes Jim!!

"There may be to this than meets the eye - the Government has been aware of this for four years."

"explaining away the attacks by putting them down to Government policy - Britain has a shameful record of racism - Moseley, N.F., BNP, and now Ukip - all major players in British politics
Now they are targeting asylum seekers and you are supporting them."

"It is extreme paranoia to imagine a government conspiracy in any of this."
Yeah - sure it is - we have imagined that Cameron has just described alylum seekers as a "swarm" (insects, maybe)
It is not beyond the realms of possibility that these have been pilot schemes for future identification of all asylum seekers, and, if them, why not all immigrants?

(Steve)
"I think we are being softened up to hate immigrants by a nasty, racist Tory government..... The fact that we can even be having a discussion about marking out asylum seekers as separate by painting their doors a certain colour or making them wear wristbands is testament to the fact that the cynical softening up is working on the more bigoted and feeble-minded among us. These things are not debatable in my opinion. "

Subject: RE: BS: Beats yellow stars, I suppose!!
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 07 Feb 16 - 03:51 PM

I will thank you for not using quotes of mine out of context.