BS: Gravity solved?

Subject: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 05:14 PM

http://www.nature.com/news/gravitational-waves-6-cosmic-questions-they-can-tackle-1.19337?WT.mc_id=SFB_NNEWS_1508_RHBox

stay tuned tommorow

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 06:22 PM

That's the THEORY of gravity - just ask pete.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 06:31 PM

Ok since you ask.......in science ...theory ...means more than the common use of the word. Such is the case with gravity because it has been verified by observable, testable, repeatable experiment.   However, though evolutionists use it in the same way about their belief , being as they are not able to demonstrate it , the common use of the word ....theory ...is more apt , and maybe too generous !

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 07:50 PM

What creationists think serious biologists believe about evolution is certainly not a theory. It's a pile of strawman bullshit.

Get a fucking education.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 07:59 PM

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 17 Oct 08 - 11:06 PM

Deep Thoughts For Those Who Take Life Way Too Seriously:
    1. Save the whales. Collect the whole set.
    2. A day without sunshine is like night.
    3. On the other hand, you have different fingers.
    4. 42.7 percent of all statistics are made up on the spot.
    5. 99 percent of lawyers give the rest a bad name.
    6. Remember, half the people you know are below average.
    7. He who laughs last thinks slowest.
    8. Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
    9. The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese in the trap.
    10. Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
    11. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
    12. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines.
    13. If you think nobody cares, try missing a couple of payments.
    14. How many of you believe in psycho-kinesis? Raise my hand.
    15. OK, so what's the speed of dark?
    16. When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
    17. Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now.
    18. Every one has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
    19. How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
    20. Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
    21. What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
    22. I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
    23. Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
    24. Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened.
    25. Just remember -- if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
    26. Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Mrr
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 08:54 PM

I think it's cool. I just finished a great biography of Einstein in which I actually believe I understand something about relativity.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 09:29 PM

Hey Goofus Alex, it was crap in '08 and its crap now.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 02:35 AM

That list was around long before 2008.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 03:17 AM

The BBC are referring to it as an update.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 04:34 AM

"Such is the case with gravity because it has been verified by observable, testable, repeatable experiment."

So direct us to a paper which tells us how gravity works, and what is actually is.


"being as they are not able to demonstrate it"

Demonstrate? Like showing how to use a potato peeler? We can watch speciation happening, because some people choose to ignore the evidence doesn't mean it's not happening.


I'm looking forward to this announcement, exciting stuff!

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:31 AM

What an amazing coincidence! I was just preparing my breakfast this morning and out of nowhere (the 'voice of God', perhaps?) the thought surfaced: "We haven't heard from Pete, the mouthpiece of the Creationists of Dumbfuckistan, recently". Truly amazing!

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 07:10 AM

"So direct us to a paper which tells us how gravity works, and what is actually is."

Newton, I., 1687, "Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica " tells you how it works in most terrestrial situations.

Einstein, A., & Grossman, M., 1913, Zeitschrift für Mathematik und Physik, 62, 225–244, 245–261, tells you how it works in the limit of high accelerations.

There is some question about how it works in the limit of low accelerations, see for instance:

Milgrom, M., 1983, "A modification of the Newtonian dynamics as a possible alternative to the hidden mass hypothesis". Astrophysical Journal 270: 365–370.

As to "what it is" there are a few papers on that,one would be:

Higgs, P., 1964, "Broken Symmetries and the Masses of Gauge Bosons". Physical Review Letters 13 (16): 508–509.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 07:33 AM

Speculation is fun but there are more than two possible announcements.

'As we listened to the merging of two black holes we did not measure any expansion/contraction of space signifying gravity waves like tsunamis through space. This only means the nature of measurement does not register a result in the parameters chosen.

^Waves were detected at light speed.




Leading to more speculation that;


^Waves were FTL.

^ Gravitons seem to have mass.

^Paired gluons may be a particle expression of gravity.

* Perhaps light is relative to gravity waves so we will never detect them.

*Green jello in the snack room skewed results.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 08:33 AM

Gravity is not "solved" by the discovery of gravitational waves. They are a prediction of work done by Einstein more than 100 years ago, and which has been generally accepted since, the more so as other predictions of that work have already been verified. The first (not counting the precession of the perihelion of Mercury which predates Einstein's ideas) was the deflection of light by the gravity of the sun, measured by Eddington in 1919. Eddington's measurement was in accord with Einstein's prediction, and twice the value that Newtonian gravity would predict. Discovering gravitational waves no more "solves gravity" than Eddington's observations did, less so in my view.

What is more interesting is finding out from what these gravitational waves come. Most of the models involve inspiralling pairs of massive objects (black holes, neutron stars etc). The importance of gravitational waves is that they give us a new window on the physics of these extreme objects.

One thing I don't know is, given the apparent simultaneous detection by more than one detector, how tight is the localisation on the sky. When you can tie the gravitational wave emission to electromagnetic emission (radio, optical, X-ray, gamma-ray) then you can really start to look at new physics.

There was an excellent film on Einstein and Eddington, starring David Tenant and Andy Serkis as the main protagonists, and an excellent supporting cast.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Amos
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 10:19 AM

It occurs to me these long-sought gravity waves may just be a sort of resonance in spacetime,, similar to the resonance of fine rosewood backs and sides in a fine guitar. I like the notion of space as a sounding board for mass, and find it amusing to think of a certain kind of planet playing E-minor seventh.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 11:53 AM

Hi, Guest from Sanity. I enjoyed your quips.

Re: How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?

I think this one has it backwards. If you took all the sponges out of the ocean, they wouldn't be taking up space any more, so the water level would drop and the ocean would be shallower, not deeper. (Notice that the question doesn't ask about removing sponges plus the water they contain.)

As for gravity, for me physics becomes less and less real all the time. Space-time, for example. I accept that it's true, but it's not real to me. I guess I'm Newtonian at heart. Goes with liking I,IV and V chords.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Stu
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 12:02 PM

Thanks for the suggestions of papers Dave!

So LIGO detected two black holes colliding 1.3 billion years ago caught the signal of the gravitational waves that resulted. On the Guardian website they've even got the sound of the two black holes colliding at half the speed of light (I couldn't get the bloody link to work).

Fantastic!

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: gnu
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 01:57 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/ligo-gravitational-wave-1.3443697

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 02:41 PM

I had not seen those one liners before gfs, I thought em funny.             Stu speciation features in the creation model too, so it is hardly true to say that we are ignoring any evidence. Perhaps you don't know much about creationist thinking ? In fact on cmi there are articles giving examples of speedy speciation. As I understand it evolutionists believe that given enough time speciation is without limit ,so that totally different kinds of animals arise. However , this has never been demonstrated ,(and of course you would appeal to it being unseen due to massive time scale), and neither do they have much, if anything to show , of Darwinian processes producing the novel information needed to bring about change beyond the limits of one type of organism to another.......unless you can point to something I,ve missed....

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 03:53 PM

Something you've missed?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucigenia One-of-a-kind

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pikaia (your probable 50 millionth great-grandfather)

No Pete, don't rebut me... I'm just pulling your leg this time- but those ARE things that help understand just how much everyone has missed. However, they are not really relevant to gravity waves.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 04:39 PM

We can't SEE gravity....but we see its affects....
We can HEAR gravity....but we see its affects....
We don't speak to gravity....though on earth, it is faithfully there...
Gravity has its own laws of physics....and to break them, we think 'freedom'....
We obviously live within the properties of gravity....but...most cannot explain it...

... the same can be said of God, but many of those who proclaim gravity, deny the existence of God.

Go figure!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:15 PM

Amos, the resonance of a black hole has been claimed to be something like 57 octaves below middle C. Too bad its not 42.

The big bang resonance is a b flat waaay deep. No it is not heard but leaves visible traces.

The artificial ears we build to hear the music of the spheres are amazing as are the sounds when we translate them into the human hearing range. Saturn makes some remarkable songs. Check them out.

Dave I was counting on you to elucidate the inappropriate use of the word 'solved' when I wrote it. The waves from the collision/merger of black holes create a gravity well quake as predicted by Einstein but offers more information as you noted. Nothing wrong about being predictable, in fact people like to count on it.


Bill D
The extinction event that eliminated 99 percent of Cambrian species has been identified. It was an comet/asteroid 6 times larger than the Yucatan impact and hit Antarctica which was in a different location on the globe at that time. Today it is 6 kilometers below the ice.Wacky speculation goes farther to claim that impact could have opened the Siberian fissure eruptions since they were directly opposite the impact and those eruptions altered the climate for millions of years.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:30 PM

creationist thinking

Oxymoron

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:56 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw-i_VKd6Wo
Great and brief video

Unlike radio waves mass is no obstacle for gravity waves.

Is there a massless particle counterpart to GWs??

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:58 PM

Donuel: "The big bang resonance is a b flat waaay deep. No it is not heard but leaves visible traces."

RIGHT!!

Donuel: "The artificial ears we build to hear the music of the spheres are amazing as are the sounds when we translate them into the human hearing range. Saturn makes some remarkable songs. Check them out."

RIGHT!!

Ludwig van Beethoven: "The vibrations on the air are the breath of God speaking to man's soul. Music is the language of God. We musicians are as close to God as man can be. We hear his voice, we read his lips, we give birth to the children of God, who sing his praise. That's what musicians are."

RIGHT!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 06:49 PM

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php?f=1853

Worth a read.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 06:56 PM

Ripple

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 07:04 PM

Dave GUEST,
Neutrinos are found to be 10 million times smaller than the mass of electrons. Do you think gravitons are similar?
Also do you think gravity waves can be destructive or benign if a solar system like ours was 10 light years away from an event like the one we just detected ?



Guest
from sanity to beyond ; I understand some folks are full of religinousnuts, I don't care what you believe you think you are supposed to believe. I believe in a now that is a mixture of past and future.

I analyzed Beethoven's 9th .

He overwhelmingly used the Phi ratio or the Fibbinochi sequence or what is also known as the golden mean for virtually all of his tight knit melodic themes.

I give license for [people of any century to say things to please their employers.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 08:27 PM

Upside Down and Inside Out.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 10:21 PM

Donuel, religion has NOTHING to do with it....AND did Beethoven study 'the Phi ratio or the Fibbinochi sequence'.....or did people who studied his works, AFTER he composed it, assign those names to it??
You know, as well as I, that for his day, he was completely innovative!
He got those ideas from SOMEWHERE, and when asked, that's what HE said. Don't you think he may have answered according to HIS experiences and methods??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Padre
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 10:25 PM

There is a slight folkie connection to this story. One of the institutions involved in the study is Rochester Institute of Technology in [wait for it] Rochester NY. RIT's president is Dr. William Destler, known to many in FSGW as Bill Destler, a member of Rock Creek.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:29 AM

As I understand it creationists believe that an old book called the Bible contains the literal truth and that an entity called "God" created everything that now exists. However, they can't demonstrate this(and have to appeal to something irrational called "faith"),and a mouth-piece of theirs called "Pete" knows nothing about Darwinian processes producing the novel information needed to bring about change except heavily biassed accounts published on creationist websites.......unless you can point to something I,ve missed...

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 04:05 AM

No rebut as such, bill. Couple of observations though. I presume creatures with odd number of legs would be regarded by evolutionism as those that did,nt make it on the upward path.          I note the second creature is identical to another still around, yet assigned different names. I wonder about the rationale for that other than philosophical....

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Stu
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 04:12 AM

".....unless you can point to something I,ve missed...."

I could never have enough arms ;-) Also, stop using CMI as your primary source of information. It's NOT science and is so full of lies and misinformation it's a positively execrable piece of work.

I'm guessing Pete, you don't believe in gravitational waves either, seeing as their very existence and origin disproves in one fell stroke all that Bishop Ussher/creationist idiocy. I'd love to hear your explanation for them (God made just look like they were coming from billions of light years away?)

The instrument they used to measure these waves is an amazing piece of technology, and capable of measuring the distance from here to the sun to the accuracy of an atom. You gotta love science!

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 07:26 AM

OK, Ok..this is getting as silly as it can get...let's start with the 'big bang'...that began EVERYTHING, OK?.....Something just happened that made the 'big bang'...fine...now the BEGINNING of ANY-thing starts with 'I (or IT)exists...where before, it didn't.. suddenly, "BANG!!"..I AM...and I am a self-existing entity in which all the properties of all matter, seen and unseen consists....I'm 'The BANG'!! Is the 'bang' done banging??...OH, so as long as the 'bang' exists, all the properties are still in play....Right??...Good!..you're right!...the 'name 'Yahweh' in the Hebrew, means according to (exact)interpretation, 'I Am', 'I Am that I Am', or 'The self existing one'....and it's all the same meaning. So, I guess if you want to put a 'human' personality on some entity, way up in the sky, sitting on a cloud, with a great white beard, and call it 'God'...and then say you don't believe in that..GREAT, you're right...that has nothing to do with anything, except some small minded concept concocted by some self imposed notion of 'small'! Whatever exists, is all part of one...a product of your favorite 'Big Bang".....it self exists...it IS...it has properties, and 'matter' is just ONE of them. Do you imagine that 'consciousness' could be another??....how about 'life', itself???...or are you going to separate them, and hide one in a box, where they are separate from the WHOLE of the 'Big Bang', that because it exists, so does everything!...except what you thought you figured out, from what your favorite ideological funded 'scientific' study says??!
Now, ya' think that's 'too vague' for ya'?....We are ALL living in it. It has 'consciousness', it has 'life', it has 'love'....though maybe not by YOUR limited definition. It has 'space', 'matter'..all the laws of physics, both detectable and beyond....it has you, and everything you've ever seen or experienced, seen or unseen.

Now, if someone wants to call that 'God', and consciously be at one with it, and receive those insights, in wonderment and 'aw', respectfully, and with gratitude, do you imagine that more would be revealed to that person, because he/she managed to discipline themselves to be opened, to process the information and data, ALL around us, but often ignored?

Who knows what Beethoven 'heard', or 'how', and/or /what he meant' when he termed it that way?...but it came from somewhere...whose existence started, with...you guessed it...a 'Big Bang'

There is no God?
There is no 'Big Bang'?
There is no you??

...after all, you want no part of it....


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 08:43 AM

I presume creatures with odd number of legs would be regarded by evolutionism as those that did,nt make it on the upward path.

You presume wrong - as always.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,#
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 09:09 AM

What about

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 10:17 AM

'Taint about the odd number of legs- its the bit about "evolutionism" [sic]

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 10:36 AM

GfS - "existence started, with...you guessed it...a 'Big Bang'"
.,,.
???
.,,.

À propos -- I have refreshed my old "What Went Big Bang?" thread, which ran from 2009-2012. Just to make it all so much simpler...

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 12:13 PM

"We obviously live within the properties of gravity....but...most cannot explain it...
.. the same can be said of God, but many of those who proclaim gravity, deny the existence of God."

Fallacy in reasoning.. gravity is the name given to an observable, measurable phenomenon. The same cannot be said about a name...God... given to a concept that we cannot see or measure directly. Saying that "we live within properties (created by God)" assumes the answer in the premise... and that is what is in question. Perhaps something did 'create' everything, but naming the idea does not validate the actuality.

(and by the way... "We can't SEE gravity....but we see its affects....
We can HEAR gravity....but we see its affects...."..... it's EFFECTS. Color me pedantic.)

________________

Pete... no, Pikaia is NOT identical to amphioxus..... not to those who understand the differences. They have similarities and one is 'likely' the ancestor of the other...but..

https://y11evolution.wikispaces.com/Pikaia+%26+Amphioxus

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:16 PM

Would you mind running all of that past me again, GfS? I seem to have missed the point and lost the plot ... and even died a little bit. Hint: Please go easy on the stream of consciousness!

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:29 PM

Bill, I did not specify amphioxus .....unless that is an alternate name. I simply said another still around.    From your original link.    "Surprisingly, a pikaia lookalike still exists today, the Lancelot branchiartoma................."

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:37 PM

Interestingly, given the waffle from Goofus above, Hawking demonstrated that you don't actually need a God to give the Big Bang. For a god to make it happen, it requires cause and effect. Time is a product of the Big Bang therefore nothing could have been contemplated or actioned before it happened.

So much for God.

As Michael is sat up and alert, I'll try and help him with his old chestnut regarding what went bang.

Nothing.

It's a bit like when Jeremy Clarkson was describing the sound of a particular super car engine. He said it sounded like Tom Jones experiencing man love for the first time. I'm sure it didn't and I doubt Tom Jones has been in a position (sorry) to make that sound, but we get an idea of what Clarkson was trying to describe. Ditto Big Bang.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 01:50 PM

Pete...following links...

"Branchiostoma is one of the few living genera of lancelets (order Amphioxiformes). It is the type genus of family Branchiostomidae."

Then: http://evolution.gs.washington.edu/amphioxus/

It's just a matter of level of classification.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:09 PM

" you don't actually need a God to give the Big Bang" but neither does it require His absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:25 PM

Bill, I note the to and froing and classifying , promoting and demoting of organisms in the evolutionary story, but best I can see from your initial link ,there was an admission that there are two identical organisms , which could perhaps really be the same except one was buried sometime and the other still around and presumed for some reason to be different from the other.      Btw, the other thing I noticed in the article is that because of the level of complexity of these creatures , life is said by some ( evolutionists ) that the origin of living things must be pushed back into the Precambrian . Correct me if I am wrong, but I assume the difficulty there , is that there is little to show for it in Precambrian strata?.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:33 PM

Musket says ...nothing....went bang,   Get yer head around that one !   And he says hawking has shown there is no need for a creator.   Somehow , I suspect musket is grossly exaggerating but if anyone has read hawking , perhaps they can tell us if hawking did make that claim ,and why ?

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:36 PM

Would his absence or lack of apply before or after time exists Keith?

Only, his habit of talking to people or interfering in reality, if we take medieval stories as "gospel" requires him to exist in time in order to do things.

Which means by his own biography, he couldn't have existed before the Big Bang. If he had actually existed in anything other than the imagination of man, he was a product of, not the cause of the Big Bang.

Which puts him on the same plane of existence as me, a tin of baked beans and the Andromeda Galaxy.

Just think things through eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:48 PM

If there is a God, He is outside of time and space and not constrained by either.
He would be the creator of time and space.

Subject: RE: BS: Gravity solved?
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 12 Feb 16 - 02:54 PM

Post disappeared!

http://science.nationalgeographic.com/science/prehistoric-world/precambrian/

Consider yourself corrected and proved wrong Pete.