Lyr ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 02 Jan 23 - 06:38 PM

And Magpie Lane at a 2021 concert (St. Leonard's, Bengeo, Hertford) on Andy Turner's 'A Folk Song A Week'

https://afolksongaweek.wordpress.com/2021/12/22/the-trees-are-all-bare-the-sussex-carol/

Andy Turner – vocal, C/G anglo-concertina
Ian Giles – vocal
Ed Pritchard – fiddle
Sophie Thurman – cello
Jon Fletcher – vocal, bouzouki

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Dec 22 - 04:59 PM

Leeneia's files added to her post above. Can somebody try them and let me know if they work?

---

MIDI (click)

NWC (click)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: leeneia
Date: 27 Dec 22 - 03:49 PM

A while back, Jim Dixon helped out by posting that the original tune can be found at:

A Select Collection of English Songs: Airs to the Songs edited by Joseph Ritson (London: J. Johnson, 1783), Vol. 3, page lv.

Since I couldn't get the abc's above to convert, I found that melody, which is actually No. LIV on page 153. (It's important when searching, to remember that in discussions the first line is given as "The Trees are all bare," at times and at other times as "WHEN The trees are all bare. It really matters.)

I have made a MIDI and sent it to Joe for posting. It's more complicated than the Magpie Lane version. I'm trying to transcribe that off YouTube, but it's harder than you might think.

It would make a nice flute or harp tune if you don't want to sing it.

---

MIDI (click)

NWC (click)

Subject: ADD: Christmas Song/Trees Are All Bare
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Dec 22 - 01:59 AM

CHRISTMAS SONG

The trees are all bare not a leaf to be seen
And the meadows their beauty have lost.
Now winter has come and 'tis cold for man and beast,
And the streams they are,
And the streams they are all fast bound down with frost.

'Twas down in the farmyard where the oxen feed on straw,
They send forth their breath like the steam.
Sweet Betsy the milkmaid now quickly she must go,
For flakes of ice she finds,
For flakes of ice she finds a-floating on her cream.

'Tis now all the small birds to the barn-door fly for food
And gently they rest on the spray.
A-down the plantation the hares do search for food,
And lift their footsteps sure,
Lift their footsteps sure for fear they do betray?

Now Christmas is come and our song is almost done
For we soon shall Eave the turn of the year.
So fill up your glasses and let your health go round,
For I wish you all,
For I wish you all a joyful New Year.

Source: A Song for Every Season, by Bob Copper (published in 1975 by Paladin, pp 202-203)

https://mudcat.org/midi/midifiles/TreesAreAllBare.mid

Copper Family recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcV1N4i4PEk&t=8348s

Coope, Boyes, & Simpson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKDlPa-6yy4

Recording by Magpie Lane: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2AvSJ95pw8

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,Banjogal
Date: 29 Nov 15 - 10:16 AM

I am looking for the chords to The trees are all bare

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 03:37 PM

There are similar pieces on broadsides which might derive from this poem as they're not quite so high-flown. Check out 'Time to Remember the Poor' or just 'Remember the Poor', 'Cold winter is come' on the Bodleian. I used to sing a version so I must have got the tune from somewhere, probably one of the volumes from the first revival.

I'm with you, Artful, the writer was just acting in the capacity of a reporter, and there's a damn sight worse in today's papers. 'All her charms' simply means anything under her smock that is normally hidden from view which could be things we would today consider quite innocent. Plenty of our revered folksongs contain much worse, 'Firelock Stile' for instance.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req/ADD: Winter / When the Trees Are All Bare
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 03 Jan 14 - 12:03 PM

Just heard this sung a couple of days ago. Cathy who sang it reckoned her version came from the Copper Family. Still looking for that version. Meanwhile -

Magpie Lane sing "The Trees They are All Bare" on YouTube.

Ross

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,DaveR
Date: 11 Sep 12 - 06:14 PM

Is there an update for Malcom's midi? That link doesn't work anymore.
I don't think Ritson's tune is the same as Pint & Dale, don't know about the Copper's. Is there abc for the tune as done by Pint & Dale or Magpie Lane?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 12:44 PM

Thanks for revising the abc, Artful. It now converts, and I know how the tune goes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Artful Codger
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:21 PM

Actually, that verse didn't go into the trash can immediately, as shown by the fact that the 1771 text referenced above not only retains it but adds a quatrain to it, and later reprintings of the text, whether as a "song" or not, were still prone to include all seven original stanzas. There is no real evidence to support either your or my suppositions of impropriety. More likely, the driving force to omit that quatrain was simply to pair them, as required by settings like Lockhart's, or to shorten the text (as shorter songs became more the fashion.)

The evidence is overwhelming that people revel in songs reflecting a "deeper nastiness of character." Sanitizing such sentiments is left to fearful collectors, hypocritical religious zealots, and overactive government censors. In fact, any polite song seems to spawn coarse parodies almost immediately, due to our need to drag such artificial creations down to our own level. So climb down from your ivory tower, turn on the radio, drop into a pub, visit a school yard, gather around a campfire and listen to the songs that people actually sing before you assert that we dislike a surface expression that betrays a deeper nastiness of character. It's the basis of most of our songs!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Paul Burke
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 05:45 PM

Is this song the origin of the story of the Tree Bares?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 09:19 AM

"Modern sensibilities applied anachronistically to earlier times."

I don't think so. That verse went into the trash can immediately. People recognize (or think they do) the surface expression of a deeper nastiness of character.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Artful Codger
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 05:57 PM

Modern sensibilities applied anachronistically to earlier times. My dear, you'd have a heydey attempting to expung all the objectionable sentiments (by modern standards) embedded in old songs of every stripe, producing Disney-McDonald's bastardizations of the originals by your "folk process." Hunting songs would be about camera safaris, murder ballads would end with prisoners getting time-outs, and your sailors would spend their sleepovers with buxom dames having pillow fights and telling ghost stories with candles held under their chins. Perhaps you were the one who made the dog sit on the tucker box. You can take your "icky" reactions and impel them with force into the deep recess between your nether fleshy protuberances.

Consider: it may just have been the images which skirted propriety which originally kept this poem from quickly fading into obscurity, as did the vast majority of "proper" poems about nymphs a-play, balmy zephyrs, verdant hills and wandering streams that nowadays make our digestive tracts involuntarily heave with sucrose poisoning when we have the misfortune to encounter them.

To interpret the stanza as you did reflects more about the contortions of your mind than about the views or character of either the author or his onlooking rustics, as actually presented in the poem. Turn on your television--for example, to "America's Funniest Home Videos"--and you'll see that our attitudes haven't really evolved; if anything, the reverse: we laugh outright when people fall on their asses and we leer when people have wardrobe dysfunctions. Why blame the messenger? Winter reminds one of ice; ice reminds one of people slipping and falling; Brerewood only described what must've happened quite commonly, given the dress of the day. You say "dirty old man", but what can we say about our modern character when half our TV shows during "prime time" gratuitously depict couples fornicating, and actresses have to wear a D cup and Botox their lips to stay in work? Your outrage seems grossly misdirected, if you're condemning a poem nearly 300 years old instead of railing against the sexploitation of today.

As for the much touted (undeservedly) folk process, its tendency to devolve rather than improve well-crafted songs is reflected in the Coppers' version. While the original poetry does leave room for improvement as a song text, this improvement wasn't realized through the application of the "folk process"; we were left with just bits of the original text--not exactly the best bits--supplemented by mediocre filler, badly rhymed. Comparing the Lockhart and Coppers tunes, the latter may have a bit more interesting pattern, with the repeated half-line, and the former may sound too arty to satisfy our ears now (if we're expecting "folk"), but the Lockhart tune is by far the more interesting and musical one overall. The folk process, on the whole, does not have an unerring ear for quality, and only tends toward improvement when the original is substandard; otherwise, it tends toward mediocrity, as in this case.

I realize you only cited this as an isolated case of improvement (according to your beliefs), but it's one of my pet peeves when people hype the "folk process"; it reminds me of religious people touting "intelligent design" as if it were some rational argument or fact rather than a widespread superstition unsupported by the real evidence.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 10:15 AM

Artful Codger wrote:"Elsewhere, the song was published omitting the middle stanza about the girl accidentally showing her "charms" when she trips--this might have been considered a trifle lewd for genteel audiences of later times."

I think it was icky then and it's icky now. Dirty old man, sniggering at the hurt and embarrassment of somebody weaker and poorer than himself.

The folk process knew what it was doing when it sent that verse to the trash can of history.

Subject: Tune Add: WINTER / WHEN THE TREES ARE ALL BARE
From: Artful Codger
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 05:33 PM

Grrr, my mistake for using the PRE tag instead of the CODE tag. I naively thought that "preformatted" meant "leave it the hell alone," but I guess browser developers just can't do that. Well, one mystery solved, and thanks, Mick! Here it is again, I hope without leading spaces:

X:1
T:When the Trees Are All Bare
C:Text by Thomas Brerewood, by 1744
C:Music by Mr. Lockhart, by 1783
S:A Select Collection of English Songs, Volume 3; Joseph Ritson, 1783.
S:"Song LIV.--When the trees are all bare, not a leaf to be seen. Brerewood.
S:Set by mr. Lockhart."
%%writehistory 1
H:The poem itself appeared in The Gentleman's Magazine in 1744 under the title "Winter. A pastoral Ballad."
M:C
L:1/8
Q:1/4=104 " All[egr]o. Mod[erat]o."
K:C
E> F | G2 A B c2 d e | (dB) G F (FE) c B | (AB) c d (ef/g/) f e |
w: When the trees are all bare, not a leaf* to be seen,* And the mea-*dows their beau---ty have
(ed) z2z2 (de) | (fc) c d (eB) B c | (eA) B c (cB) A G |
w: lost;* When* na--ture's dis-rob'd* of her man-*tle of green,* And the
(d>e) d c (BG) (B/A/) (G/^F/) | G2 z2z2 B c | (dB) A G c2 d e |
w: stream* are fast bound* by* the* frost: While the pea-*sant, in-ac-tive, stands
(ed) c B c2 (BA) | e2 d c (BA) G F | E2 z2 z2 E F |
w: shiv'*ring with cold, As* bleak the winds north-*er-ly blow; And the
G E E2 (FG) A B | (dc) B A (AG) c B | A2 B c (de/f/) f e |
w: in-no-cent flocks* run for ease* to the fold,* With their fleec-es be-sprin---kled with
(e2d2) z2 d e | (~fe) f e (dc) d c | (BA) G F (FE) c B |
w: snow:* And the in--no-cent flocks* run for ease* to the fold,* With their
(AB/c/) G a (ge) (g/f/) (e/d/) | c6 ||
w: fleec---es be-sprin--kled* with* snow.
%
%%vskip .5in

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 02:30 PM

leeneia - if you copied it off the web page directly, did you delete the leading spaces that are on the lines (the headers are all indented). That's probably the cause of the problem. (As you can see from the listing there really is a K field).

Mick

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 12:00 PM

Hello, Artful. Thanks for the abc.

I tried to convert it and was told it lacks a K field. Can you fix that?

Subject: Tune Add: WINTER / WHEN THE TREES ARE ALL BARE
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Sep 11 - 10:17 PM

The original poem appears in The Gentleman's Magazine, Volume 14 (1744), p.46 (Jan.), with the title "Winter. A pastoral Ballad."
http://books.google.com/books?id=e2DPAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA46

Most of Thomas Brerewood's poems appeared in this magazine; it likely represents their place of first publication. Brerewood published companion poems in the same magazine: later in 1744, "Autumn" appeared, and in 1746, "Spring" and "Summer." The four can be found printed together in several collections, the series headed by "Spring".

Brerewood's original poem lacked the eighth stanza which Jim Dixon found in The Choice Spirit's Chaplet; this may have been added because Mr. Lockhart's tune pairs the quatrains, without indicating how to handle their odd number. Elsewhere, the song was published omitting the middle stanza about the girl accidentally showing her "charms" when she trips--this might have been considered a trifle lewd for genteel audiences of later times.


Here's an ABC transcription prepared from Joseph Ritson's A Select Collection of English Songs, Volume 3 (1783). It's the earliest setting or tune mention I've found, though the poem was explicitly labelled a "song" by 1771.

  X:1
  T:When the Trees Are All Bare
  C:Text by Thomas Brerewood, by 1744
  C:Music by Mr. Lockhart, by 1783
  S:A Select Collection of English Songs, Volume 3; Joseph Ritson, 1783.
  S:"Song LIV.--When the trees are all bare, not a leaf to be seen. Brerewood.
  S:Set by mr. Lockhart."
  H:The poem itself appeared in The Gentleman's Magazine in 1744 with the title
  H:"Winter. A pastoral Ballad.";
  %%writehistory 1
  M:C
  L:1/8
  Q:1/4=104 " All[egr]o. Mod[erat]o."
  K:C
   E> F | G2 A B c2 d e | (dB) G F (FE) c B | (AB) c d (ef/g/) f e |
  w: When the trees are all bare, not a leaf* to be seen,* And the mea-*dows their beau---ty have
   (ed) z2z2 (de) | (fc) c d (eB) B c | (eA) B c (cB) A G |
  w: lost;*  When* na--ture's dis-rob'd* of her man-*tle of green,* And the
   (d>e) d c (BG) (B/A/) (G/^F/) | G2 z2z2 B c | (dB) A G c2 d e |
  w: stream* are fast bound* by* the* frost: While the pea-*sant, in-ac-tive, stands
   (ed) c B c2 (BA) | e2 d c (BA) G F | E2 z2 z2 E F |
  w: shiv'*ring with cold, As* bleak the winds north-*er-ly blow; And the
   G E E2 (FG) A B | (dc) B A (AG) c B | A2 B c (de/f/) f e |
  w: in-no-cent flocks* run for ease* to the fold,* With their fleec-es be-sprin---kled with
   (e2d2) z2 d e | (~fe) f e (dc) d c | (BA) G F (FE) c B |
  w: snow:* And the in--no-cent flocks* run for ease* to the fold,* With their
   (AB/c/) G a (ge) (g/f/) (e/d/) | c6 ||
  w: fleec---es be-sprin--kled* with* snow.
  %
  %%vskip .5in
  

To generate a MIDI or PDF score, try the ABC converter at folkinfo.org.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Marje
Date: 13 Dec 10 - 10:00 AM

For what it's worth, the tune given above in the link by Jim Dixon is completely different from the one used by the Coppers in their version.

Marje

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 01:27 PM

It's also on the Sussex source singer Bob Lewis's CD 'The Painful Plough' Foxide Music, RUST105 (single unaccompanied voice).

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Valmai Goodyear
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 12:32 PM

The source singer George Townshend of Lewes also had a version of this. It is on his CD 'Come Hand to Me the Glass (a line from this song) made by Musical Traditions, MT CD 304.

It is on the Copper Family CD 'Coppers at Christmas' under the name of 'Christmas Song'. There are some splendid rare carols on this; it's available from the Coppersongs website.

Hasn't the folk process improved Thomas Brerewood Esq's original?

Valmai (Lewes)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Dec 10 - 09:01 AM

I only have the Ramskyte, Dark December recording of this song. I am trying to learn it, but I can't tease out the melody amid their 4 part harmony.

Does anyone have a recording of the melody (neat) without ornamentation?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 10:13 PM

The Choice Spirit's Chaplet, compiled by George Alexander Stevens (Whitehaven: John Dunn, 1771), page 100, has a verse that is missing in the previously cited volume. It goes after verse 5:

When the birds to the barn come hovering for food,
Or they silently sit on the spray;
And the poor timid hare in vain seeks the wood,
Lest her footsteps her course should betray.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees Are All Bare
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:43 PM

The tune for the above song can be seen in another volume of the same work:

A Select Collection of English Songs: Airs to the Songs edited by Joseph Ritson (London: J. Johnson, 1783), Vol. 3, page lv.

Subject: Lyr Add: WINTER (Thomas Brerewood)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Apr 10 - 09:28 PM

This seems to be the ancestor of the above songs, from before lots of folk-processing happened.

From A Select Collection of English Songs by Joseph Ritson (London: J. Johnson, 1783), Vol. 1, page 232:


WINTER.
Thomas Brerewood, Esq.

1. When the trees are all bare, not a leaf to be seen,
And the meadows their beauty have lost;
When nature's disrob'd of her mantle of green,
And the streams are fast bound with the frost:

2. While the peasant inactive stands shivering with cold,
As bleak the winds northerly blow;
And the innocent flocks run for ease to the fold,
With their fleeces besprinkled with snow:

3. In the yard when the cattle are fodder'd with straw,
And they send forth their breath like a steam;
And the neat-looking dairy-maid sees she must thaw
Flakes of ice that she finds in the cream:

4. When the sweet country maiden, as fresh as a rose,
As she carelessly trips often slides;
And the rustics laugh loud, if by falling she shows
All the charms that her modesty hides:

5. When the lads and the lasses for company join'd,
In a crowd round the embers are met,
Talk of fairies, and witches that ride on the wind,
And of ghosts, till they're all in a sweat:

6. Heaven grant in this season it may be my lot,
With the nymph whom I love and admire,
While the icicles hang from the eaves of my cot,
I may thither in safety retire!

7. Where in neatness and quiet, and free from surprise,
We may live, and no hardships endure;
Nor feel any turbulent passions arise,
But such as each other may cure.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: GUEST,Nick Fulham
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 12:00 PM

Lo these many years later I find these massages while looking for the Lyrics. The group Magpie Lane have an eccellent version of it on their CD:

Wassail
Beautiful Jo Records (1995) BEJOCD-8

http://pages.britishlibrary.net/andyturner/magpielane.htm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: ADeane
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 12:21 PM

Brilliant, thanks ADeane

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 07 Dec 99 - 07:17 AM

G'day,
Thanks to Malcolm the tune is now here

Cheers,
Alan

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 10:01 PM

They all probably got the song from the Copper Family, who call it "Christmas Song". The music and lyrics (the latter exactly as quoted by MMario) are given in Bob Copper's book, A Song For Every Season (Heinemann, 1971); I'll post a midi of their transcription to the midi site.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: David
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 06:34 PM

Many thanks indeed for the lyrics and the comments, having toiled with this problem for eighteen months I cannot believe the instant solution provided by visiting this website. I'll be back!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:40 PM

Here would be where you would find Pint & Dale's CD info. I am not aware of a MIDI anywhere.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: ADeane
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:36 PM

Could you let us know where the tune is to be found-the words sound lovely! ADeane

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: MMario
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:24 PM

heh-heh-heh-heh-heh! Hey - you at least know the tune by now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:13 PM

Ah yes, MMario! But that would have been the EASY WAY to do it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Trees are all Bare
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:10 PM

I have been trying for days to extract the lyrics from the recording I have which was done by William Pint and Felicia Dale. Here is what I have so far but will not guarantee that I have heard all of it right. I would be happy if someone could fill in the blanks or even correct what I have so far.

The trees are all bare
Not a leaf to be seen
And the meadows their beauty have lost
Now winter has come
And 'tis cold for man and beast
And the streams they are (2)
All fast bound down with frost.

T'was down in the barnyard
Where the oxen feed on straw

.........................
Their breath like the steam
Sweet Betsy, the milkmaid
Now quickly she must go
For flakes of ice she'll find (2)
Floating on her cream.

Tis now all the small birds
Through the barn door fly for food
And gently they rest on the spray
..........................
.........search for food
And lift their footsteps
Sure t'would be a day to betray.

Now Christmas has come
And our song is almost done
For we soon shall have the turn of the year
So fill up our glasses
And let your health go 'round
For I wish you all (2)
A Joyful New Year!

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TREES ARE ALL BARE (from Pint & Dale)
From: MMario
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 04:06 PM

from the Pint & Dale website:

THE TREES ARE ALL BARE attributed as traditional English

The trees are all bare, not a leaf to be seen
And the meadows their beauty have lost.
Now winter has come and 'tis cold for man and beast,
And the streams they are,
And the streams they are all fast bound down with frost.

'Twas down in the farmyard where the oxen feed on straw,
They send forth their breath like the steam.
Sweet Betsy the milkmaid now quickly she must go,
For flakes of ice she finds,
For flakes of ice she finds a-floating on her cream.

'Tis now all the small birds to the barn-door fly for food
And gently they rest on the spray.
A-down the plantation the hares do search for food,
And lift their footsteps sure,
Lift their footsteps sure for fear they do betray.

Now Christmas is come and our song is almost done
For we soon shall have the turn of the year.
So fill up your glasses and let your health go round
For I wish you all,
For I wish you all a joyful New Year.

Subject: The Trees are all Bare
From: David
Date: 06 Dec 99 - 03:18 PM

I'm trying to find the lyrics to this traditional English folk 'carol'. Magpie Lane have recorded an excellent performance but the words are open interpretation! Anyone know this one?