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Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???

punkfolkrocker 21 May 16 - 02:40 PM
punkfolkrocker 21 May 16 - 03:31 PM
Ebbie 21 May 16 - 04:01 PM
Joe Offer 21 May 16 - 04:45 PM
khandu 21 May 16 - 05:11 PM
Joe Offer 21 May 16 - 05:53 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 21 May 16 - 07:10 PM
PHJim 21 May 16 - 08:07 PM
GUEST 21 May 16 - 08:25 PM
Steve Shaw 21 May 16 - 09:01 PM
Bill D 21 May 16 - 09:53 PM
Steve Shaw 21 May 16 - 10:20 PM
GUEST,HiLo 22 May 16 - 02:27 AM
khandu 22 May 16 - 08:30 AM
Amos 22 May 16 - 10:47 AM
Rapparee 22 May 16 - 11:01 AM
Acme 22 May 16 - 01:55 PM
punkfolkrocker 22 May 16 - 02:10 PM
GUEST,HiLo 22 May 16 - 02:31 PM
JHW 22 May 16 - 03:28 PM
Acme 22 May 16 - 03:36 PM
Joe Offer 22 May 16 - 04:09 PM
khandu 22 May 16 - 05:49 PM
DMcG 22 May 16 - 06:34 PM
An Pluiméir Ceolmhar 22 May 16 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 22 May 16 - 07:11 PM
Acme 22 May 16 - 11:02 PM
gnu 23 May 16 - 11:12 AM
punkfolkrocker 23 May 16 - 11:28 AM
Janie 23 May 16 - 09:15 PM
gnu 23 May 16 - 09:16 PM
Rapparee 23 May 16 - 09:25 PM
Rapparee 23 May 16 - 10:12 PM
punkfolkrocker 23 May 16 - 10:44 PM
DaveRo 24 May 16 - 01:54 AM
Joe Offer 24 May 16 - 02:41 AM
The Sandman 24 May 16 - 08:03 AM
Vashta Nerada 24 May 16 - 09:32 AM
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Subject: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 May 16 - 02:40 PM

This last week or so mudcat has ground to a halt for long periods every day...

If a thread of less than 400 posts opens, it takes several refreshes over 5 or more minutes before it is responsive and allows scrolling and posting.

On a previous thread regarding problems with mudcat, someone suggested MOAB might be the cause,
possibly as an over stressing demand on server power and resources...???

Is there actually any real truth to this...???

MOAB has been near the top of BS just lately.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 21 May 16 - 03:31 PM

Additional note:

If mudcat is completely off air I test it with "isitdownrightnow"..

Doesn't matter whether it's red for YES - DOWN FOR EVERYONE, or green for NO - JUST YOU..

I still can't get mudcat to open for anything up to a few hours.

..and when it is on line for me, opening a thread can take ages before it is responsive to clicking, scrolling and posting...

so is MOAB the culprit just lately...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 May 16 - 04:01 PM

Here is what I use for seeing whether it is up or down. http://www.websitedown.info/mudcat.org

I've noticed that the Cat is down more often lately but we've had periods like it before. I have no idea whether MOAB bears any responsibility for it - it doesn't seem likely to me, especially since you seem to be having other symptoms. Good luck!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 16 - 04:45 PM

The MOAB is definitely a suspect, especially when people try to open the entire thread instead of opening it in bits. Hmmm. I wonder if it would work to force threads over a certain number of messages, to be opened in segments. Max is working on a solution.

In the meantime, please don't try to open the complete MOAB thread. On the Forum Menu, there is a number (click) that is a link to open the thread in 50-message segments in chronological order, and a "d" (click) to open in reverse order segments.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: khandu
Date: 21 May 16 - 05:11 PM

Lawdy Lawdy! What have I wrought!

khandu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 May 16 - 05:53 PM

Allow me to repeat the note I put in the first message of the MOAB:
Thank you, khandu. I worship at your feet.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 21 May 16 - 07:10 PM

A possible solution might be to isolate posts to the MOAB which consist entirely of posters using obscure polysyllabic words (often in foreign languages) to insult one another, and move them off to a thread of their own. That would trim the thread down to a very manageable size.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: PHJim
Date: 21 May 16 - 08:07 PM

I'm amazed that such a pointless thread has gone on for so long. Usually I feel guilty about posting on a thread if I haven't read the entire thread, since I have been criticized for this. for example "GUEST:Pete already mentioned this 24 posts ago PHJim. You should read what has been posted before posting yourself." In the case of the MOABS thread, there is no point to the thread as it is. I was gonna ask who would miss it if it was closed down, but obviously there are some members who must enjoy it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 16 - 08:25 PM

With regards to the one big page, I can't imagine making the html for 50,000+ posts and the resulting 70MB+ download is a particularly good idea.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 16 - 09:01 PM

I tried two hours ago to post to this thread but I see it didn't take. I haven't been able to check since I tried because I couldn't get back in. If that massive thread's an issue, just close it and start a Mark Two version of it. It would be worth a try and it wouldn't offend anyone. A bit like we do with those "first joke threads."


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Bill D
Date: 21 May 16 - 09:53 PM

Closing it wouldn't be a total solution as someone could still stumble onto it and try to open it. Perhaps if the title were changed to warn people? Then...**Son of MOAB**


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 16 - 10:20 PM

True, Bill, but the attempts would diminish in time as the new entity took root, no?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 22 May 16 - 02:27 AM

MOAB is my wash pot !


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: khandu
Date: 22 May 16 - 08:30 AM

HiLo must be God!
I had forgotten that Moab was sanction by the Mudcat Hierarchy from the opening post. Therefore, I am absolved of responsibility.
Thank you, Joe Offer.
Btw, Joe Offer is no igmo!

khandu


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Amos
Date: 22 May 16 - 10:47 AM

I believe that MOAB is innocent, and the test of the pudding is that it has been down for all threads or any threads. But trying to load the whole MOAB thread is unintelligent, as choices go, because it will take a terrible long time even if everything's operating normally.

Instead , click on the (m) to open just the message of interest. When it opens you will see a post count followed by an asterisk and a "d":

(54448* d)

If you click on the "d" you will call up one page of posts and a table of page numbers which would allow you to go to any earlier page of posts, as if you would want to.

Finally, I offer the MOAB up as an exemplary example of courtesy and good fellowship, the kind of amicable exchange which the Mudcat should hold as its ideal, full of insight and wit and free of rancor, free of bitterness, free of ad hominem attacks. Except for the knuckleheaded ne'er-do-wells and phantom-mongers.

A


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 May 16 - 11:01 AM

As a MOABite I agree with Amos.

As a system administrator, I agree with Amos. Also as a sysad I think that MC needs biggerbetterfaster servers. In the past there have been fundraisers for this and other purposes -- who's willing to create a set of CDs like the Blue Plate Special or another calendar? -- few, I think, among the current crop of 'catters, who don't even seem to know that there is an Auction.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Acme
Date: 22 May 16 - 01:55 PM

This isn't the first thread complaining about it, nor will it be the last, and here is the third MOABite in a row suggesting that if you haven't visited MOAB, you shouldn't pronounce it as nonsense. Everyone knows it is malarkey.

Removing the rare troll posts is a bit of a challenge, but it is doable once you figure out the timing and don't bother to wait for it to reload.

Max has said he's looking into options to keep people from loading the entire thing. One of these days, if it hasn't already, it'll break some kind of record.

MOM misses some of her regular visitors now that they aren't allowed to post in BS. The freds, the Galactic Overlord, Gluon, and the many manic inventions of LH, particularly Chongo, Blind Drunk in Blind River, and all of their cousins. And the elegant Penelope Rutledge.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 22 May 16 - 02:10 PM

I wasn't complaining about it.
just inquiring if it is a real server hogging & crashing problem
as suggested by some other mudcatter on an earlier thread regarding mudcat slowdowns, instability, and unavailability...


I've never actually been able to open MOAB, on the odd occasions I've been curious...

If it is proven to be a serious resource leach,
maybe it now deserves it's own separate self contained website somewhere on a branch stream from mudcat...???


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 22 May 16 - 02:31 PM

I have never posted there, but I do read it from time to time..too bad that the former guests cannot post. I don't think that that prohibition has improved anything as some threads are as ugly as ever so MOAB provides a nice read and friendly banter.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: JHW
Date: 22 May 16 - 03:28 PM

I've never looked at Mother of all BS. I would never have time to read it!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Acme
Date: 22 May 16 - 03:36 PM

We have one member (who you will discover if you read the thread) who a few years ago actually read it front to back. And found it therapeutic. When this particular participant posted, it was with a clever name and surprised one of us, who was one of their co-workers. And there are lots of great stories in there. Some of the funniest stuff I've ever read.

Mudcat has 159,959 threads in place, and 3,791,570 posts. How can our puny 54,453 be causing anything more than a mudcat hiccough?


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 May 16 - 04:09 PM

Acme says: if you haven't visited MOAB, you shouldn't pronounce it as nonsense. Everyone knows it is malarkey.

So, the MOAB is NOT nonsense, but it IS malarkey.

Did I get that straight?   ;-)

-Joe, up to no good-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: khandu
Date: 22 May 16 - 05:49 PM

Harry Lee Wigley was chided severely for attempting to bring some nonsense to Mom. He left in a huff yet returned with a load of malarkey. He was then welcomed by the lovable Moab cast and crew.
We all learned from this hard lesson.

k


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: DMcG
Date: 22 May 16 - 06:34 PM

I have suggested in the past MOAB miight be a problem. It is not just the sheer amount of data transmitted if someone opens the whole thing in error: it is to do with how things like database index overflow pages are likely to be spread all over the disk so that a lot of disk accesses are needed to even build the 50-posts-at-a-time pages, and amount of ram that might be required to do this. I was not, however, claiming it was a problem, since i don't have enough information. Just that it might be, especially if re-indexing and disk consolidation is infrequent.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 22 May 16 - 06:39 PM

I have to admit that I did a double take when I saw this topic tagged as "Tech", especially after that thread of a few months back wondering where all the old-timer Catters have gone ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 22 May 16 - 07:11 PM

I use ping/trace with servers out of Brussels when I suspect the MC is down.

Most times...it is during a holiday extended weekend...and many of those years issues are Passover etc.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

There are some interesting souls, with a servant's gift, that keep this peculiar hole alive.

Thank You


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Acme
Date: 22 May 16 - 11:02 PM

Precisely, Joe. I think you take my meaning completely! ;-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: gnu
Date: 23 May 16 - 11:12 AM

Malarkey? Nonsense! Nonsense? Malarkey! It's right there in black and white in the title... "The Mother of all BS threads". It's BS!


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 16 - 11:28 AM

Mudcat's been off air all afternoon..

So I had time enough to come up with this idea....

If MOAB is proven to be bottle necking and crashing mudcat,
one option could be to start afresh with "MOAB v.2"
with the first post from admin giving a link to download the entire archive of existing MOAB html or text file
as a Rar of Zip from a cloud storage site...

Ditto for any other popular thread that reaches a set limit - eg 1000 posts...


Then again.. MOAB might be completely innocent...... 😜


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Janie
Date: 23 May 16 - 09:15 PM

Well, no, I wouldn't describe Mom as innocent....


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: gnu
Date: 23 May 16 - 09:16 PM

MOAB loads fifty posts at a time when clicked properly. Just like all the other threads over 50 posts. This ain't Salem. Put the pitch forks and the matches away and let Max deal with it.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 May 16 - 09:25 PM

And, I again suggest, donate to the Mudcat and help Max upgrade the servers.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 May 16 - 10:12 PM

I went into Mudchat tonight. No one there.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 23 May 16 - 10:44 PM

Well mudcat is loading a lot faster and more reliably since this afternoon..

So whatever is being fixed behind the scenes, many thanks to Max and any other tech crew... 😎

As for me starting this thread, I'd suggest honest end user feedback is more use to Max,
than folks getting frustrated by the site not loading properly for hours, or days on end, not saying a word, and maybe never coming back again...


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: DaveRo
Date: 24 May 16 - 01:54 AM

gnu wrote: MOAB loads fifty posts at a time when clicked properly...
It sends you fifty posts. But how many database records does it read to find those fifty posts? And how many to write one more post on the end? And while it's doing that are other users queued up waiting so that it affects those who are reading other threads?

Without knowing how Mudcat is constructed and configured I don't know. But I doubt if the effect if very long threads hasn't been considered over the years.


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 May 16 - 02:41 AM

I guess we have to trust the Man Behind the Curtain to figure out the technical aspects. Max is one smart feller.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 16 - 08:03 AM

why not close MOAB TEMPORARILY FOR A WEEK AND SEE WOT APPENS


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Subject: RE: Tech: Is 'Mother of all BS' killing mudcat ???
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 24 May 16 - 09:32 AM

Why not stop speculating and leave this to Max?


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