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do you recognize this old piece?

GUEST,leeneia 30 May 16 - 10:12 PM
Joe Offer 30 May 16 - 11:11 PM
Helen 31 May 16 - 02:20 AM
Megan L 31 May 16 - 02:23 AM
Helen 31 May 16 - 06:52 AM
Megan L 31 May 16 - 07:39 AM
GUEST,leeneia 31 May 16 - 12:00 PM
Joe Offer 31 May 16 - 03:43 PM
Helen 31 May 16 - 03:54 PM
Jeri 31 May 16 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Mike Yates 01 Jun 16 - 03:13 AM
Jack Campin 01 Jun 16 - 06:32 AM
Harry Rivers 01 Jun 16 - 08:41 AM
Jack Campin 01 Jun 16 - 10:11 AM
GUEST,leeneia 01 Jun 16 - 10:13 AM
Megan L 01 Jun 16 - 10:49 AM
Helen 01 Jun 16 - 04:58 PM
Helen 01 Jun 16 - 05:29 PM
leeneia 02 Jun 16 - 05:19 PM
GUEST 02 Mar 18 - 06:29 PM
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Subject: do you recognize this old piece?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 30 May 16 - 10:12 PM

I have a book of recorder exercises and dances by the Dutch musician G. Rooda. The book is well-known among recorder players and is simply known as "Rooda."

It has a dance that is labelled "English duos - Bourree", but it doesn't sound like a bourree to me. Instead it sounds like a processional, similar to "The Prince of Denmark's March" or the "Trumpet Voluntary". I can easily imagine a trumpet playing it.

I'm going to send the MIDI to Joe for posting, and I hope it appears here soon and somebody can tell me more about it.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 May 16 - 11:11 PM

Leeneia's MIDI file was corrupted, so I didn't post it. Hang tight. I'm sure she'll send another.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 16 - 02:20 AM

Hi Leeneia,

This is just a stab in the dark, but is it this piece?

Handel Bourree

When I was learning piano a few years ago, it was one of the pieces I was learning. I like it a lot.

Helen


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Megan L
Date: 31 May 16 - 02:23 AM

Helen Bach also did a Bouree in his English suite I have heard it played by flute and clarinet but I guess we will have to wait till Leeneia send Joe a new file


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 16 - 06:52 AM

Thanks Megan,

I just had a very vague recollection that Handel had spent some time in England, but I might be wrong.

Yes, wait and see.

Helen


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Megan L
Date: 31 May 16 - 07:39 AM

He did Lass he came to London and became a british citizen in 1727


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 May 16 - 12:00 PM

Hi, Helen. No, your Handel bourree isn't it. But I love it. Thanks for the link.

I've sent the file to Joe again, this time with the chord symbols removed and a simpler name.

Click to play (joeweb)


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 16 - 03:43 PM

The MIDI works this time. Link is in leeneia's post. Thanks, leeneia.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Helen
Date: 31 May 16 - 03:54 PM

Thanks Leeneia and Joe.

I don't recognise the tune. I'm off to work now, so I'll listen again this afternoon when I have more time.

Part of it reminded me of an Elisabethan song called I Care Not For These Ladies - Thomas Campion.

(I'm not fond of this singer's style, so I'm sorry for inflicting it on you.)

Helen


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Jeri
Date: 31 May 16 - 05:25 PM

Parts are reminiscent of O'Carolan's Concerto.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 03:13 AM

A few notes in the B part of the tune remind me of a phrase in the song "Three Maidens A-Milking Did Go" (the bit about "And the wind it did blow high/And the wind it did blow low").


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 06:32 AM

I'd never heard of the Rooda book before and don't know where I'd find a copy.

Can't somebody upload a scan or photo of the relevant page?


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Harry Rivers
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 08:41 AM

Is this it?

English duos - bourees

Harry


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 10:11 AM

If so, I don't recognize it, but I can see why it would be tempting to play it in march tempo - the breath marks (if that's what the little x's are) suggest a fairly slow pace.

I don't see why it couldn't work much faster as a bourree, though.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 10:13 AM

That's the piece,but it's in a different key from mine - much higher.
(F rather than C because your book is for F recorders such as alto.) I looked for the C book in Google books, and it says "no Ebook available." Too bad.

I think the piece is interesting because it's 28 measures long and the first phrase is 6 measures long. Then it repeats. The remaining phrases are 2,2,and 4 measures long. It's a change from the 16-bar tune with phrases 4 measures long.

It's also interesting because it's a good tune. If it came from a collection of duos, I would like to find the other part.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Megan L
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 10:49 AM

If the page with 7 at the bottom is the same piece it has Handel written on it makes me wonder if it is this Handels Bourree flute solo   Have a bit of a migraine today so musical recognition is not good.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 04:58 PM

Megan L, the Handel's Bourree is the same as the one I posted above, and it is not the same as the one leeneeia is asking about.

I have just looked at those pages, before and after the piece in question. I suspect that the mystery piece is just an exercise made up for the book. The page before is titled Section 1. Intervals, and the first piece on that page is titled Seconds - Seconden, the page with the mystery piece has two pieces, the first English duos - Bourree, and the other one Triads - Tertsen. The next page continues the Triads piece and then Handel's Bourree is named, and the page after that is Fourths - Quarten.

So, for two reasons I think that the mystery piece is a practice piece only. 1. there is no composer named as there is for the Handel's Bourree, and 2. following the names from the first page forward, the sequence goes seconds, duos, triads, fourths so it is following a numerical order.

I'm not trained in musical theory, so I don;t know the difference between seconds and duos - if there is one or what is meant by triads or fourths unless it is - the penny might have just dropped - the intervals between each note in the piece, i.e. in the first piece, starting note, up 2 intervals (a whole tone), up two intervals, etc. If this is the case, the term "duo" doesn't refer to a duet but to the notes in the music.

The Bourree is a style of tune, with a specific rhythm, so I suspect the tune was made up to suit that style.

There is a Bach Bourree - audio file on the right hand side of this wiki page

Helen


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: Helen
Date: 01 Jun 16 - 05:29 PM

I just noticed that I didn't put the link in above for
Thomas Campion - I Care Not For These Ladies


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: leeneia
Date: 02 Jun 16 - 05:19 PM

That's not the explanation. The exercises are very regimented and repetitive. The bourree came from a some source called 'English Duos.'

Bourrees must have lasted longer than I thought.


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Subject: RE: do you recognize this old piece?
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Mar 18 - 06:29 PM

I use Rooda regularly and I have tried unsuccessfully to find the origins of this English duos - Bourree. It seems to come from a collection of English duets. It is probably anonymous because the next "English duos - Bourree" in Rooda is attributed (to Handel). The same Bouree (transposed) is found in The Sweet Pipes Recorder Book (One) and described as English (18th century). So we will probably not find its origins in Bach or Handel but in some anonymous English dance.


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