BS: It's time Bernie

Subject: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 07:43 AM

I am at least as far left as most, even went to SDS meetings back in the day until they started planing to assail a police station! And I thank Mr. Sanders for energizing a vast number of mainly younger citizens to the political process, but the game is up. You have forced Ms. Clinton farther to the left than I would have thought possible, and good job! And I understood not quitting before California and their mass of delegates, but you lost by 400,00 votes. It's time to heal the wounds. We can not have that porcine bigot have any chance of becoming president! WE need you, Bernie, the party needs you, the Country needs you. Please, do the only right thing. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 07:58 AM

A real socialist(as opposed to a "liberal") never gives up.
Mrs Clinton is the voice of the corrupt, organised political establishment and must ALWAYS be opposed.

Her record in foreign affairs is much more frightening than any of Mr Trumps rhetoric......she is the last thing your country needs.

None of my business?......US foreign affairs are very much OUR business.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:27 AM

akenaton: I'm not the hugest Hil fan, and I agree it is the worlds concern, but dear lord, Trump is a monster, and we have but two choices and Bernie has no path. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:52 AM

I have been following the speeches of the presidential candidates carefully and I think Mrs Clinton is more hawkish on foreign affairs than even Mr Trump.....his views on immigration etc were obviously to consolidate his core vote a common political tactic......why do you reckon Mr Trump is a "monster"? He has advocated building bridges between world powers......he is not a leftover from the "Cold War" like most establishment politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 09:38 AM

I don't know what happened to my post, so if this appears twice, that's why.
He want's to build a wall between Mexico and the US( to keep the horde out I guess. Allow So Korea and Japan to have nukes so they can "defend" then selves, and ban Arabic people from entering the country until we "know what's going on" Listen to this man, and can you really tell me Hilary is more frightening? I keep waiting to hear that Canada is building a wall to keep us out. Mike
ps, don't get me started on his opinions on women.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 10:21 AM

We are in DIRE need of Bernie throwing his support behind the party, if he loses the nomination. Dire need. Dire, dire need.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 10:33 AM

.why do you reckon Mr Trump is a "monster"?

Ake, its long past time you got over your Trump-worship and your unt=reasoning & pathological hatred of Clinton. Its boring if nothing else. Educate yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:10 AM

AMEN,mrrzy and Greg F, if that blow hard were elected, I'd need to dig a deep hole, and I'm somewhat claustrophobic. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:14 AM

If Bernie is swindled out of the nomination by the Party, he should stand as an independent.

He has a strong following in the country from people OF PRINCIPLE.
It could signal a real change in US politics to have a genuine alternative to corporate capitalism.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

We are in DIRE need of Bernie throwing his support behind the party, if he loses the nomination. "

Hi, Mrrzy - agreed to a point - BUT don't put all the onus on Bernie himself . He SHOULD fight the good fight right up to the wire.

However, if the last-ditch, diehard, "Clinton will get my vote when they pry it from my cold, dead hands" Sandersnistas are not smart enough and practical enough at the end of the day to vote for Clinton (and I am not and have never been a fan of Hillary OR her husband) to prevent that piece of Trumpshit from gaining the presidency then it will be THEIR fault - not Bernie's - for reprising the 2000 election and the Naderoids who handed the presidency to George Dumbya Bush.

I'm still in hopes that H. L. Mencken was wrong, but there are plenty of current indicators that he was right on the money:

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:21 AM

Jaysus, Ake - see the above post. And educate yourself about political - not to say fundamental - reality.

It could signal a real change in US politics

Yup, putting the Trumpshit in the White House WOULD be a real change - for the worse.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:27 AM

Mrs Clinton's record on foreign affairs is indeed DIRE, from Iraq to Libya, to Syria, but to those obsessed by minority rights she also opposed homosexual "marriage" until 2013 when her eyes became fixed on the presidency.........does that not make her a "homophobic bigot" like most of you presume me to be?
Or is it all right if you're a hypocrite and a Democrat?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:56 AM

Ake, please tell me you're just taking the piss, yes? You seem to be getting more irrational by the day.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 12:50 PM

Greg F Don't you believe California WAS the line? ake, I take it you don't live here, in the USA. Still you WILL rue the day if Trumpsterfire is elected. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 01:22 PM

Greg F Don't you believe California WAS the line?

Nope. Take it to the limit, one more time. However more he might influence Hillary's stated positions right up the the bitter end, more power to him.

The country needs it.

(Ake's in the UK & singularly uninformed about the reality of the situation over here in "the colonies".)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Amos
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 02:20 PM

Hil would be wise to add Bernie to her ticket. Whether he would consider the job or not is, of course, another question. There are serious questions about the legitimacy of the voting process in various states, and it is possible a sweeping reform of voting processes is needed.

Anyway, if the outcome of the DNC convention is that Bernie is not nominated but Hillary is, I will vote for Hilary in the general, even though under protest.

It would be nice if the process were MUCH more transparent than it is.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 05:32 PM

Amos,I agree,should also be a right to vote, not a prize to be won. I think most of the "fixed" stuff concerns super delegates which are a flawed fail safe so the dems don't end up with their own trumpfire, and no, I'm not comparing Bernie to Trump, just that in the party's he's only been on board for a year. I'd love to see her offer the veep to Eliz Warren, though my room mate says two women would be pushing things too far. He also thinks Bern should keep going to keep Hil from drifting to the center. I pray you guys are right. ake's a brit, surprising, Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 06:17 PM

NEVER SURRENDER! All the way to the convention! Feel the Bern!

Unpledged MEANS Unpledged. Don't *let* the bastards win. Make them win... or loose. What's the difference? If she wins, she wins. If she doesn't win, the US, and the World, wins.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 07:40 PM

gnu, win with Trump? I don't see it,    I pray you meant Bern. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:00 PM

What? Trump? Trump doesn't even enter the equation as far as being president. Trump will never be president. Trump was only ever a ruse to attempt to get Clinton elected so that Bernie would not get elected. It was *their* only hope and the part of "their" that is the Repugnant Party sacrificed their party's reputation on it. Smoke and mirrors. Bullshit extraordinaire. Bait and switch.

Feel the Bern! All the way to the convention AND even if it has to be a write in vote in the election. All the way... or you deserve to be Trumped or sHillaryed.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: toadfrog
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:21 PM

The short answer is this.

I voted for Bernie. I was impressed most of all by his promise that he would "never be a spoiler." If he goes on attacking Hilary at this point he is a spoiler, and I have no more respect for him. Trump is very real. Trump can sure as hell get elected, and if the Republicans run somebody else, that person will likely be worse than Trump. You think nobody disagrees with you because you don't associate with people people who disagree with you. There are a whole lot of right wing nuts, and there are a lot more people who identify themselves as like Trump, and don't care who he insults.

If Bernie goes on sabotaging the left, he is responsible for the consequences--just as Ralph Nader will always be remembered as the lovely guy who brought us the war in Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:36 PM

Bernie is a really nice guy, with pie-in-the-sky ideals. He'd never get any of them accomplished with the House and the Senate as they are today. Hillary will kick some balls and get the job done.

Ake, you need to exhale, inhale, and take a step back from American politics. If, after nearly 3 decades in political life, the likes of Richard Scaife and Kenneth Starr haven't toppled the Clinton machine, (look them up if you don't know who I'm talking about), we're looking at a world where Trump is going to recycle old trash. He has nothing useful, nothing new.

Hopefully most Americans are smarter than Donald Trump, and see him for what he is. And if you're not sure about what has happened to Hillary over the years (why she has had to work 3x as hard as any man to reach this point), read this.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: ragdall
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:13 AM

I'm with gnu! Feel the Bern!
Too bad we can't vote, eh, gnu?

The US election system would benefit from a strong purge. Something needs to be done about all the voting irregularities that have been reported.

Hang in there, Bernie! You know what's right.   Do it.

rags

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:46 AM

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think there have been significant voting irregularities in this primary season. The Republicans had mostly "winner take all" primaries, and that tended to work to Trump's advantage. I think they'd be better off with proportional selection of delegates, like the Democrats have in most states.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 06:41 AM

I don't abuse this forum to "take the piss" Greg.....and I don't think you do either.

I agree almost completely with gnu......sorry gnu.

I cannot understand why you people even contemplate voting for the establishment candidate especially with her abysmal record in office AND the availability of a real reformer to vote for, who the polls reckon has a better chance of beating Mr Trump in the presidential election than Mrs Clinton?    None of it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:27 AM

ake,the point is moot now, it's Trump or Clinton and a write in for Bernie is a vote for Trump. I love it that Harry Reid is pushing for Liz Warren, she would cancel Hil's biggest liability (Wall Street} and please the far left of our party with one stone, so to speak. I agree with toadefrog, damage is being done, and Joe that voter irregularities are a republican fiction, always have been. Latly, for now, I apologize to gnu, I knew what you were saying as soon as I posted, and I know of no way to unring that bell. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:48 AM

Bernie ran a great campaign and he's moved the conversation considerably to the left and now it's time for him to bow out (in his own good time, he's earned it) and get behind HRC so she can get on with the nasty business of putting down this rabid dog, if the GOP doesn't beat her to it that is.

BTW, congratulations to HRC and American voters who brought about a historic moment with her victory. Her acceptance speech the other night was truly inspirational and was her best public moment that I can recall.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:13 AM

It's shameful that this land of the free has taken sooooo long to put a woman in this position, it's not like we didn't have examples from around the world. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:18 AM

Food For Thought

If Bernie goes on sabotaging the left, he is responsible for the consequences--just as Ralph Nader...

Bernie is in no way "sabotoging the left". And the "responsibility" would be that of voters irresponsibly throwing their votes away on a candidate who could not possibly win - see above 08 Jun 16 - 11:17 AM

[Bernie] ... has a better chance of beating Mr Trump... [than Clinton]

Not in this universe, Ake. Would that it were so, but its a fantasy. If Bernie had a chance I'd vote for him in a New York Minute - but not at the expense of putting The Trumpshit in the Oval Office.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:58 AM

According to the polls, more people would vote Sanders to beat Trump than Clinton......the polls will dictate who the Democratic candidate will be......unless of course the Democrat political establishment would rather have Trump than a socialist.

Greg ......I understand your position, but you should really have been right behind Mr Sanders from the OFF.

Party politics is meaningless, especially in the US where Big business runs everything including the politicians.....you got to break the mould even if it means sacrificing the presidency.......without a new political template nothing meaningful will ever change.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 10:06 AM

you should really have been right behind Mr Sanders from the OFF.

Why do you assume I wasn't?

the polls will dictate who the Democratic candidate will be

Uh, no. That's not how it works. And by the way - WHAT polls, exactly, and where are you getting this information??

you got to break the mould even if it means sacrificing the presidency

That may possibly be the stupidist, mort ridiculous thing you've ever come up with, Ake, allowing that it has some pretty stiff competition.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 10:08 AM

A differential of 3.7 million votes has dictated who the Democratic candidate will be.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 12:57 PM

3.7 is nothing, not so long ago it would have been 37......and the momentum is still with Sanders.
Clinton as president would mean no change and a probable foreign affairs debacle.

If the polls keep showing Sanders with positive numbers and Clinton negative against Trump, Sanders will get the nomination......unless as I said, the Democrat establishment fear socialism (even Bernie's very mild form), more than they fear Mr Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:05 PM

If the polls keep showing Sanders with positive numbers and Clinton negative against Trump, Sanders will get the nomination


No.

He.

Will.

Not.

It.

Doesn't

Work.

That.

Way.

Are you being wilfully obtuse on purpose, Ake, or are you really that ignorant about the workings of U.S. Govt, political parties, and election procedures?

I suspect I know the answer, but......

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:11 PM

BBC now.....Sanders is going right to the wire, he says he is the only one who can beat Mr Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:12 PM

You're probably the only person in the western world that doesn't realize that Bernie's candidacy is over with the exception of a few of his more zealous minions. It seems like even the senator himself is becoming reconciled to it. As for momentum, he took a real beating on Tuesday night.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:03 PM

There is a lot of leverage left Mr Sanders could threaten to stand as an independent......He has enough support in the country to do so. The bullets are not all with the Democratic establishment.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:17 PM

Cant believe this piece of nonsense, "It's shameful that this land of the free has taken sooooo long to put a woman in this position, it's not like we didn't have examples from around the world"

What in hell does it matter whether the president is a man or a woman? surely it's ability to do the job that counts?

We have had a woman Prime Minister, one Margaret Thatcher......and most of the "liberals" here think she was the worst thing that ever happened to British politics.

I can't take you seriously after a remark like that Mike. Ideological claptrap.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:53 PM

Thanks for your support, if she was the second or fifth woman, I'd agree. Seems this claptrap is big news to many, and Thatcher was Reagan without outdoor plumbing, so I would'nt cite her. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 02:59 PM

she was the worst thing that ever happened to British politics.

Not at all, Ake - Maggie was the worst thing to happen to the British PEOPLE since The Black Plague.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:41 PM

She was a formidable politician, one of the best of breed, although I disagreed with almost every one of her policies.

Fortunately, her political acumen had very little to do with her gender......she was doing a job for the political system which she supported and she was bloody good at it.
British manufacturing had become unprofitable and to save the system or to buy time it had to be pruned in a manner which devastated the working class......making it almost extinct and removing its political power.
A housing boom based on credit and the sale of "council houses" bought more time and turned most of the population into property owning capitalists.....Blair and New Labour continued her work until the inevitable financial crash of 2008.

The figureheads are really meaningless, you talk of the left of the Democratic Party, there is no left in the Democratic party, only a pissy marshmallow, rights obsessed, ineffective centre and Mrs Clintons stormtroopers........what a bloody choice!

If you really want change you must start by dismantling the socio/ economic system and re constructing it. Mr Sanders would be a start, but it will be a long haul and no one on these pages would see it come to fruition.......Mrs Clinton and her ilk are the heirs to Thatcher and Blair, a two tier society based on financial aspiration and the wealth gap growing ever wider.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:51 PM

There is something very worrying about the dissonance between the California poll results and the recorded votes. I understand that litigation is in play. One key factor is the skewness of "provisional votes" and another (sorry if this sounds a bit tinfoil hatty) the possibility of corrupt electronic counting.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 05:53 PM

she was doing a job for the political system which she supported and she was bloody good at it.

So was Pol Pot.

Mrs Clintons stormtroopers & etc.

Its obviously pointless trying to educate you and you adamantly refuse to educate yourself, Ake. You're also starting to display the same alarming behavior as The Professor.

So from here on out, I'll do my damndest to try not to respond to your increasingly bizarre and uninformed rantings.

TTFN

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 09:00 PM

Nobody would expect a football team to concede before the game is over, no matter how impossible the hope of overtaking the other side. The same should be the rule in a political contest. Play to the whistle.

The contests that really matter are the ones for Congress and Senate. As the last eight years has shown, the gerrymandering that means that a country consistently voting Democrat is liable to be saddled with Republican legislatures means that a Democrat president is largely powerless.

The hope must be that Trump will so screw up the whole Republican that enough Democrats will be elected to compensate for the bent electoral system, and that the momentum of the Sanders campaign will mean that the Democrats elected would largely represent that momentum.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 08:05 AM

Mcgrath of Harlow. You are dead on and that is the dream. Did anyone catch Sen. Warren last night. She has become my favorite politician since RFK. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 11:15 AM

I just looked at it on Youtube. She's impressive.

Your big worry is that to many people might be looking at Hillary, deciding they don't muxch like her, and thinking Trump is a no hoper, so they might stay home in November, or put in a protest vote - which could mean Trump actually winning, and would definitely hit the hopes of left Democrats getting in across the country.

Having Elizabeth upfront in the campaign, preferably as VP candidate would be a way of addressing that.

"Two women on the slate might be pushing things too far" - you've had two men every time for 240 years, and it hasn't worked out too well a lot of the time. And the two are pretty dramatically different. If Hillary doesn't pick her the suspicion might be she was scared of being outshone by her.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 12:15 PM

If she leaves the Senate, the Rep. Gov of Mass. would replace her as a fill in 'til special election, only draw back I can see. She'd appeal to Bernie's folk and shore up Hil's wall street creds. I'm not concerned with an all female ticket, as you point out all males haven't fared so well a lot of times. Anyway, she's hot to tear into Trump,anyway. Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 12:02 PM

Rest assured Sen. Sanders will not become a Ralph Nader election buster.


For the sake of argument Bernie is just as capable as Hillary at being an expedient liar. To m knowledge he di not ie during the primaries but as President there woul be times a li is part of the job.

In an elevator my wife heard a Bernie supporter complain about women voting with thir vaginas.

Lets just say that young man will not be voting with his dick this year.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:28 PM

Ok then, It would appear that you "liberals" are about to vote for a Presidential candidate who supported war in Iraq, was instrumental in getting president Obama to facilitate the destabilisation of Libya,
pushed for regime change in Syria, which would have left a breeding ground for ISIS terrorists, accepts millions of dollars from US corporations, has made a bollocks of every office of government in which she was involved.........why?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 01:50 PM

yer right Bernie is better but reality offers our own Golda Maier, Angela Merkle...Queen of the free world.

DId you know the pope could be a woman?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:16 PM

Give it up, Ake - you didn't understand when its been explained to you before, and you won't understand if its explained to you again, and facts are irrelevant to your mindset about Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:49 PM

All true, aken, but the alternative is worse. I'm reminded of the French Presidential election with Chirac and Pen senior in the run off, when the slogan was "vote for the crook, not the fascist".

The priority for Sanders minded Americaans need to be getting their people elected in the other elections for Congress and Senate, so that they can stronarm Clinton into being better than her record.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 08:24 PM

Here's a piece about that 2002 French Presidential Election. Didnmt turn out well for the fascist.
Daily Kos

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: michaelr
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 01:23 AM

"Ralph Nader election buster"

I'm so fucking sick of the Nader nag meme that says You must not vote for the person who represents your values. You must instead hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil.

FUCK THAT SHIT! VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 07:49 AM

Good for you Michael.....that makes two of us.......and I think Greg is coming round...... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 09:36 AM

FUCK THAT SHIT! VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE!

Go for it, as long as you're willing to accept responsibility for Pres. Trumpshit.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:24 AM

You beat me to it, Greg. When the greater evil, is a race-baiting, chiseling, uber-capitalist the lesser evil don't smell so bad.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 11:11 AM

Why on earth don't you think Mr Sanders could beat Mr Trump, the polls say he has a better chance of doing so than Mrs Clinton.

You were afraid to give him a chance, preferring to back the establishment shill with the dismal record.

Perhaps you don't want real change at all?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 12:33 PM

Give it up, Ake - you didn't understand when its been explained to you before, and you won't understand if its explained to you again, and facts are irrelevant to your mindset about Clinton.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 05:37 PM

Bernie Sanders would be a better choice, both in himself and, it would appear, as an opponent to Trump, but it appears that option has gone. It is clear enough that Bernie is not going to be the Democrat candidate, and will not run as an Independent.

Effectively Americans will have the Le Pen or Chirac choice. No serious alternative but to vote against the fascist.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 06:39 PM

I am more ideologically aligned with Senator Sanders than with any one else who ran but I don't see what qualifies him to be Prez. He's got a lot of good (and expensive ideas) that can never be implemented and when the GOP starts focusing on them (they've been laying off him up to this point trying to keep his candidacy alive) with their Super PACs his numbers will plummet, never mind when Trump starts deriding him as a socialist, true or not, which is tantamount to being a communist in the minds of many voters. Maybe you have to live in this country to appreciate the implications of that.

Also working against him is his age, Senator Sanders will be 75 on Sept. 1, Ronald Reagan was 69 when he assumed office and we saw how that turned out. Rather than being a lame duck from day one the senator would be far more valuable to the nation in the Senate as a strong voice for the left-leaning platform that he's going to be able to help write due to his excellent campaign. I think Sen. Warren would also be more effective in the Senate rather than being muted in the Clinton camp. .

HRC is probably the most thoroughly vetted Presidential candidate in history and she's still standing. An objective look at her record in every public position she's held indicates to me that she's more qualified to be POTUS than any of the clowns the GOP put forth and any of the Democrats as well with the possible exception of Martin O'Malley.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:00 PM

Of course Hillary Clinton will be 69 too by November.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Jun 16 - 10:04 PM

Hillary will also be 69 on October 26th.

I'm inclined to feel "Don't truust anyone under 70" myself these days...

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Jun 16 - 06:19 AM

I'm not crazy about a 69 yr. old candidate either but a 6 year differential becomes more significant as we get up there.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 04:44 PM

Emails released by WikiLeaks point to sabotage by the DNC - it sure looks like they had it in for Bernie and wanted Hillary.......too bad.

New Leak Shows DNC Officials Tried to Destroy Bernie Sanders' Campaign

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:12 PM

Of course it was sabotage, Boo - the DNC are all raving antisemites, no?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:23 PM

It will soon be time. You just watch and feel the Bern, baby! The good ol' USA is still breathing... you ain't seen nothin' yet.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:46 PM

Of course it was sabotage, Boo - the DNC are all raving antisemites, no?

You tell us Greg as you seem to know. Myself I believe the establishment is afraid of Bernie's "socialist" leanings and indebted to the Billary machine. Also Wall St. pressure plays a big role.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 06:52 PM

No way, Boo - the antisemites are behind everything. Check under your bed.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 07:10 PM

No Greg it's the Islamophobes, I'm telling ya.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 08:18 PM

I'm not quite 68, and I'm glad to see that both Presidential candidates are a bit older than I am. The Obama guy, after 8 years of presidency, is still only 54. I liked him as President and all, but he made me feel really old.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Jul 16 - 10:23 PM

Yeah, Joe, but is he an antisemite?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 02:12 PM

I wish I could vote for Obama a third time. Hillary is no Obama (ergo we've had two terms of Obama). But, Trump is no Mitt Romney (I'm saying it like it's a bad thing).

I'm listening to Tim Kaine's bilingual address in Florida and hoping for the best.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 02:29 PM

Does anyone think that Kaine was a good choice electorally?

Seems to me that either Mr Sanders or Mrs Warren would have garnered in more votes......perhaps they were to much of a threat to the Clinton agenda?

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: bobad
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 02:58 PM

More dirty tricks from the DNC against Bernie.

From WikiLeaks:

One email from May shows CFO Brad Marshall suggesting that they use religion against a certain possible atheist with a Jewish heritage:

    From:[e-mail] To: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail] Date: 2016-05-05 03:31 Subject: No shit

    It might may no difference, but for KY and WVA can we get someone to ask his belief. Does he believe in a God. He had skated on saying he has a Jewish heritage. I think I read he is an atheist. This could make several points difference with my peeps. My Southern Baptist peeps would draw a big difference between a Jew and an atheist.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 04:02 PM

Yeah, Boo - obviously an attack by rabid antisemites !!

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 05:24 PM

Sanders and Warren are far too valuable in the Senate to be named a VP running mate. Neither would accept... nor be even considered by HRC.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 16 - 05:30 PM

BTW... I have been saying this for near a year. If Sanders doesn't pull off the bait and switch at the DNC, Ventura will run on an independent ticket announced in August unless Sanders convinces him otherwise. 50/50 to me. Ventura is a force to be reckoned with.

But. Given the present, it looks like a done deal. Only hope could alter it. But, Bernie has accomplished an amazing amount so far. The coming days will be interesting... for the world. This ain't small potatoes.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jul 16 - 01:59 AM

Thanks gnu, that's interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jul 16 - 02:21 AM

Jesse Ventura is even more of a joke than Trump. He'd probably choose Hulk Hogan as his running mate.

Sanders and Warren are doing important work right where they are - and they can do the math regarding the possibility of winning back the senate. They need to stay put.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Jul 16 - 06:52 PM

"It's time Bernie"........stood as an Independent!

How can a man of principle support
These crooks

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 06:35 PM

"Jesse Ventura is even more of a joke than Trump." I disagree. He is an eloquent man of and for the people. He didn't get where he is by being a "dummy". Has he any chance? Not even a snowball's chance in hell. But he could shake things up... just like Bernie did and, hopefully, Bernie will continue to do so.

"Sanders and Warren are doing important work right where they are - and they can do the math regarding the possibility of winning back the senate. They need to stay put." Agreed. Either would make great Senate leaders. Sanders more so because of his long and prestigious record... touch and go on that one.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: robomatic
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 06:54 PM

Apparently Bernie was booed by some of his own people when he addressed them on the importance of defeating Trump by voting Hillary.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jul 16 - 07:18 PM

The penny has finally dropped!
Bernies speech

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 01:35 AM

I found myself misty-eyed at the end of Bernie's speech this evening, He ran a good campaign and brought a number of important issues to the national attention. And he brought his campaign to a good end and showed himself to be a good loser.

We haven't heard the end of him. I'm sure he'll play an important role in the next eight years, as will Elizabeth Warren. Progressive Democrats were well heard this year, and I think that will make a big difference.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 02:57 AM

Joe says that Bernie was a "good loser"...... but he was not a fair loser Joe. The process was corrupt and Bernie's followers have every right to be enraged.

First the Super Delegates fiasco, then the rigging by the Party....you couldn't make it up.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 09:45 AM

Senate Leader? If our friends to the south get it right.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:21 PM

Stand by for Hillary to zag back to the right.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:23 PM

It may not be so dire.
A Bernie supporter who would vote for Trump would have to be a racist who misunderstood all of Bernie's platform.

Regarding Trump;
He smiles more and better than Hitler.
Trump's Mussolini smug smirk is less repulsive.
(if you can't say something nice...)

In the New Yorker magazine the article 'Trump's Boswell' is an interview of the ghost writer of The Art of the Deal.
He claims that Trump actually believes he himself wrote the book. "Nothing could be further rom the truth".

Gnu, very funny but I like Ventura's conspiracy TV show.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:42 PM

I suppose one could question the "superdelegates" and other aspects of the primary process, but the primary election results still show that Hillary won the majority of votes and the majority of contests.
Votes: 16.8 million for Hillary, 13.1 million for Bernie. Contests won: 34 for Hillary and 23 for Bernie. (There were contests in Guam, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and the District of Columbia and a few odd groups, which is why there were more than 50 contests.)

Although some changes may have helped Bernie, it's clear that Hillary won the primary election. For the most part, the election was fair - and the shortcomings would not have made a difference. So, I'm with Sarah Silverman:

To the "Bernie or Bust" people: You're being ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 03:54 PM

"For the most part the election was fair"

Just like the Curate's egg, eh Joe?    :0)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 04:09 PM

Ake, somebody's going to be able to find fault with every human endeavor. And yes, there were things about the Democratic primary that could have been improved. But Hillary got the clear majority of the vote, and she won the nomination.

In the Republican Primary, there were 31.1 million votes cast, and Donald Trump won 14.1 million. Not a majority, but he did win the nomination.

You can argue all sorts of fine points, but one fact remains: Hillary won the nomination with a majority of the popular votes, and Trump did not. That makes me think that the Democratic primary was fair. Can you say the same about the Republican primary?

The Democratic runner-up gave Hillary an honest endorsement. Ted Cruz wasn't able to do that for Trump, and with good reason.

So, WHICH primary was the curate's egg?

You're trolling, ake, and I suppose people could find fault with that. I think it gives the rest of us the opportunity to point out the truth. Thanks for the opportunity.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 04:43 PM

It was a joke Joe, but the point is that the process was corrupt.
The Party is supposed to be neutral in the process, but these e mails prove beyond doubt that The Democratic Party wanted Clinton as Presidential candidate even though polls showed Mr Sanders figures against Mr Trump were better than Mrs Clinton's.
Why do you think that was the case?.....I can only presume that it was because Mrs Clinton was "of the establishment", the no change candidate.
If the process had been conducted in an even handed manner the result may have been completely different.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 05:59 PM

I think we'll have to disagree on that, Ake. For the most part, the Democratic Primary was fair, but it had its faults.

To my mind, the problem with the Republican Primary was that it had too many candidates, which allowed a ludicrous candidate with a small plurality to come out ahead in a slate that had a number of reasonably credible candidates. There's an inherent unfairness in awarding the nomination to a candidate who had only a plurality. There has to be a better way to handle a large slate of candidates fairly.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:06 PM

Hillary won the nomination with a majority of the popular votes, and Trump did not. That makes me think that the Democratic primary was fair.
Joe, let's try your logic on a couple of other events:
The New-England Patriots won the Super Bowl by a wide margin, so deflating the ball was fair.
If all the votes in Florida had been counted, Bush would have won, so it doesn't matter how the Supreme Court reached its 5-4 decision in Bush v. Gore.
The e-mails demonstrate that the DNC did not conduct a fair race. Those who contributed to the DNC were defrauded, because the DNC had a contractual obligation to be impartial. There is no way to know if Hillary Clinton would have won an honestly run race, but I think one thing is clear. The former chairman of the DNC, Debbie W. Schultz had only 6 debates, which were scheduled on weekends or at the same time as major sporting events. This deprived Sanders of the exposure he needed, but it also left a lot of dead air time, which the Republicans filled with debate upon debate and which Donald Trump artfully used for free publicity. DWS may or may not have got the nomination for HRC, but at least she gets part credit (or blame) for Trump's nomination, and possibly for his election.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:25 PM

Did anyone think for a moment that the DNC wouldn't be doing whatever it could to promote the establishment candidate and disadvantage the outsider?

I'd find it absolutely astonishing if that hadn't been happening. That kind of thing is surely intrinsic to party politics, in all countries.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:27 PM

Doesn't fly, airymouse. Football is a game. If a team violates the rules of the game, it gets a penalty - maybe even loss of the game.

An election is a vote by the people. If there are violations of the rules, the violators should be penalized - but the winner should still be the one who got the most votes.

And if all the votes in Florida had been counted, Gore would have won. In fact, he had half a million votes more than Bush without the contested Florida votes, so I still can't see how it was fair that the victory was awarded to "W."


-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 06:58 PM

Joe you are a patient man.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 07:24 PM

Yup, Donuel -

Heck, I'm even still waiting for somebody to officially declare Gore the winner. It's the right thing to do.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 26 Jul 16 - 08:55 PM

Here is your argument (I think):If the process had been fair, the outcome would have been the same. Therefore, the process was fair or at least it doesn't make any difference if the process was unfair. But it does make a difference: the DNC has helped nominate Trump and has made his election more likely than it would have been had the DNC met its obligation to be impartial.
Did I expect DWS to be impartial? No.
Do I think Bush would have won a recount in Florida? No. I'm just giving you an outline of an argument the late Justice Scalia made. But take Scalia's hypothesis as given; the conclusion is still false because the argument is wrong. Whether or not the outcome was correct, it did make a difference that the court was unfair. As Justice Stevens put it," Although we may never know with complete certainty the identity of the winner of this year's Presidential election, the identity of the loser is perfectly clear. It is the Nation's confidence in the judge as an impartial guardian of the rule of law."
Am I going to vote for Clinton? Yes. But I still believe that the DNC and its chairman, DWS, wronged, not just Sanders, but the Democratic Party and its nominee. Indeed, their dishonesty may yet have terrible consequences for us all.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:40 AM

I agree with that analysis. Corruption is intrinsic to US politics? Well start electing candidates who have an interest in fairness.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 08:52 AM

Isn't it pretty certain that the Republican party elite wasn't doing all it could to scupper Trump? Unfortunately for the party, it didn't work.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:18 AM

Quite right McG, the GOP had more or less anointed Jeb Bush it's candidate and the RNC was working desperately to undercut Trump not so long ago. They just didn't get hacked as far as we know. Political parties are not government entities and basically make their own rules and have always attempted to install candidates whom they think have the best chance of winning and/or implementing the party platform. That said, as a Democrat I didn't care for the way the DNC conducted themselves regarding the Sanders campaign but it's time to move on. As Joe pointed out, several times, HRC won the popular vote by a substantial margin and the threat of a profoundly unqualified racist vulgarian becoming "Leader of the Free World" is just too much to stomach.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:23 AM

gillymor(any relation to gillyweed?). Trump had no rules at all, and the GOP could not deal with that. Not sure that that looks bad on them thou. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 11:13 AM

There was an honorable way for a member of the DNC to support Sanders or Clinton. For example, Tulsi Gabbard (Rep. from Hawaii) resigned from the DNC and then endorsed Sanders and campaigned for him. And there may have been members of the DNC who wished to support Clinton and resigned from the DNC to do so. I can't name one. Can anybody? Surely, both the DNC and RNC set up the rules to provide what they perceive as stability: closed primaries, winner-take-all states, super delegates. I think that when Florida's RNC primary was made winner-take-all, the party thought that Jeb! could take his own state. But please, there is a distinction between making the rules and breaking them. I am not a lawyer, but I like to think that the rules become a legally binding contract between the DNC, the RNC, and their donors.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 12:27 PM

I hate all these abbreviations. DNC, RNC, DWS, HTC. Makes it impossible to read European newspapers. Is the RNC the Republican National Committee, or the Republican National Convention? GOP (grand old party - Republicans) is a widely accepted name, but the others are gobbledygook.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 12:43 PM

I admit I was just being lazy and hoping that the meanings of my abbreviations would be clear from context.Anyway abbreviations are embedded in our language. Take "e.g." for example.



Who among us would ever write "exempli gratia?"
BTW, I would pronounce "gratia" with a long A.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:36 PM

Long "a" as in "grate"? Or as in "Aaaaaah"?

"Gratia" has the latter, in my book: "grah-tsi-ah."

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: mkebenn
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 01:36 PM

It ain't you, airymouse. Mike

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 02:52 PM

I ain't - oh sorry, amn't- sure what Mike is talking about. As for "gratia," I was just working in "BTW," because I figured if you were bothered by "DWS" you wouldn't cotton ""BTW" either. In my book, The NBC Handbook of Pronunciation, it's fifty shades of gratia.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 03:30 PM

BTW, Airymouse, if it isn't "grah-tsi-ah," how do you say it?

Gray-tea-eh?

My objection, BTW, is to abbreviations that are not in common usage and are easily confused. You used RNC and DNC in reference to the party sometimes, and sometimes maybe to the National Committee, and sometimes to the National Convention. And thus, I was horribly confused, well nigh to the point of tears, or something.

-José-
SWAK

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 05:02 PM

I tend to use those abbreviations here because I've no idea what the proper terms are. I agree with Joe, it's better to use the proper words.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 10:20 PM

I always used DNC to stand for Democratic National Committee. I will try to spell out my meanings from now on. Part of the confusion derives from the Democratic National Committee's way of asking for contributions in a way that makes it seem that the contribution is to be to the Democratic Party.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Jul 16 - 11:44 PM

C'mon, Airymouse! Put me out of my misery?

If it ain't "grah-tsi-ah," what is it?

And, for that matter, what is the difference between the Democratic National Committee and the Democratic Party? Seems to me, that the Committee is the executive body of the party.

Am I wrong?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 02:54 AM

Why does a discussion on abbreviations have any relevance to this thread? I think it is simply a device to derail a proper discussion which has been promoted by Airymouse.
lets get back to the nitty gritty, apparently there are thousands of protesters outside the conference venue who have been written out of the media coverage......and any opposition by Democrats inside has been virtually silenced.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 06:44 AM

Gratia can be either long A like Joe has it, or short A, depending where you come from. But never the other long A.

Bernie's nomination of Hillary was very neatly done.

Hillary will be as good as she's allowed to be, and made to be. FDR made a remark to that effect about his presidency, asking voters to strengthen him by forcing him.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 09:39 AM

I agree with the last post by McGrath. ( I am hoping the "Mc" is not an abbreviation.) My view is that the upcoming election is possibly a choice between good and evil, and it is certainly a choice between something better than evil and evil. I think that some members of the Democratic National Committee, including its chairman, have behaved badly,that this bad behavior has been damaging, and that it would be a mistake for the nominee of the party to connive at this bad behavior. AS for the distractions, I hated civics class and so haven't a clue about the relationship between the Democratic Party and its committee. I liked English though and was pretty careful to check up on the pronunciations of words I encountered for the first time. The language changes, but mostly my strange pronunciations were at one time correct. I don't think I have ever spoken "gratia" (GRAY shi uh) but I have said "incognito" (in COG ni toe) and "caveat" (CAVE E ot), and I have found that hardly anyone is happy with my way of saying these words.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 11:15 AM

The gratis a is pronounced both ways as in the a in ignoramus .
Which is correct I don't know.


The power of Bernie's example will grow.

I am upset by npr calling Hillary's legacy as scandalous.
Exactly what was she guilty of except being scandalized by people like Britebart and Trent Lott?

Travel gate - she hired a new travel agency.
gate gate
white water gate
beef gate
email
Bengazi

Nixon crimes today would be considered small potatos compared to W and Trump if given the chance..

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jul 16 - 01:07 PM

Why does a discussion on abbreviations have any relevance to this thread?

Because the thread itself is no longer relevant, so why not have a friendly conversation? Bernie endorsed Hillary on July 12, and gave a very good endorsement speech at the Democratic National Convention on July 25. The convention thread is the relevant one right now.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Airymouse
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 09:40 AM

It's unfair to blame Sanders for selling out. Suppose he had accepted Jill Stein's offer to make him the nominee of the Green Party. He would have had no way to get on the ballot in nearly 3/4 of the states, so he couldn't have won. If there were no winner, the Republicans, who control congress, would pick Trump. But I'm hoping Sanders supporters will rid the party of Debbie Wasserman Schultz and the other cheaters. That is a campaign they can win. (If they can tolerate the abbreviation DWS, they can get a free "BYE DWS" sticker by contributing to her opponent, Tim Canova, in next month's primary.)

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Donuel
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 10:03 AM

Hillary's legacy will be:
She did everything she needed to do.


Yes indeed Airymouse, the time for third party options is over.

In 4 years Bernie will have more insight into how to maneuver in ways that helped Hillary this time around.

Bernie Sanders / Robert Reich 2020.

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 07:39 PM

In the game of politics, people get despised for being realistic. And yes, I think there are a good number of Bernie supporters who despise him right now. Ralph Nader stuck to his guns, and so we got eight years of George W. Bush. To my mind, Bernie played the game right, and showed real wisdom in his decisions. He held on until the end, gaining important concessions in the platform and in convention rules. And he bowed out graciously, still holding firm to the ideals he supported through his campaign. As a result, I think Bernie will have a strong, positive, and long-lasting effect on the Clinton presidency.

Bernie did it right.

What did Ralph Nader accomplish?

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: It's time Bernie
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 16 - 07:47 PM

You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run...