Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically

Subject: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 12:34 PM

Just read...

http://itvision.altervista.org/why-windows-10-sucks.html

for laughs...maybe

graphic devolution chart.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: EBarnacle
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 02:27 PM

And that's why we have only one machine on 10. Educational purposes only and probably going to turn it into a different OS.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Bob Schwarer
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 02:34 PM

Works fine for me.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 04:06 PM

Sounds like the same anti-Windows propaganda we've been hearing for decades. I've installed it on 20 machines or more, with very few problems. I have one staff member who refuses to convert, but the other staff members all seem satisfied.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 04:29 PM

I installed Win 10 on my M-i-L's PC yesterday - went as smooth as a baby's derrière, absolutely no issues whatsoever. Everything works fine, and my M-i-L is delighted with the result.

I'm so glad I'm not a tinfoil-hatter.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Brian May
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 04:42 PM

If Windows 10 had arrived instead of Vista, I'd not be on a Mac.

It has behaved impeccably in the Virtual Machine on my Mac.

Also, being free it's a no-brainer.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Andrez
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 07:11 PM

Hi Joe and other MS enthusiasts, I'm sorry but I think the point of this article is about the security and invasion of privacy issues raised by the discussion of how Win 10 has been constructed by Microsoft and less so about whether or not the software is functional in the work environment.

Even if half of what is asserted in the above article is true (and I will go back and read it much more closely and check the links) Win 10 seems to have moved into a truly Orwellian model that serves the best interests of Microsoft Corp and treats consumers as simply 'ripe for exploitation and plucking'!

Making Win 10 free simply sucks in unwitting users and locks them into what seems to be a highly exploitative and controlling ecosystem.

The constraints on system and user configuration have to be of concern to admins and users alike as should the lack of control over updates and the growing promotion of cloud based operations. FYI I have legacy systems using XP and NT, working Vista and Win 7 boxes and several Macs so have a fair sense of the utility of each OS and also a good sense of general OS progression (for better or worse) over the years.

In my Win 7 system I recently found a Win 10 upgrade icon in the system tray that appeared after I ran Win Update. There appeared to be no ready way to get rid of it. I searched and finally found this guide to removal and was successful in removing it from my system. The moral of the story is to read every update KB document from now on instead of simply accepting Microsofts 'suggestions'.

Hope this helps other 'Catters' with Win 7 who are being invited to upgrade.

http://www.howtogeek.com/218856/how-do-you-disable-the-get-windows-10-icon-shown-in-the-notification-tray/

My God and I thought Trump was bad!

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: meself
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 07:50 PM

I just don't want the damn thing. It took me long enough to get comfortable with Windows 8.whatever; I really resent being forced to take on this mess I wasn't even asked if I wanted.

Okay - I haven't gotten it yet - silly me, what makes me think it's going to be a 'mess'. I'm sure it won't cause me one second of frustration, rage, or homicidal fury.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 08:15 PM

Andrez... "Hi Joe and other MS enthusiasts, I'm sorry but I think the point of this article is about the security and invasion of privacy issues raised by the discussion of how Win 10 has been constructed by Microsoft..."

There it is in a nutshell for me. I have heard one of the mods herein (that I trust implicitly) say s/he thinks it's fine as long as you do a custom install so you can subvert the intrusions in this regard. Fact is, I don't know how to do that. Given the fact that I "upgraded" my laptop to W10 last summer and it DIED (would NOT restart), causing me to set it back to factory condition, whereupon I lost EVERYthing, including software I had paid for, I am a little leery of upgrading on my main desktop PC.

Jus' sayin', eh?

If anyone has advice in how to "stop W10 from taking control of your PC and info and privacy", please share soon as I understand the free upgrade is for a limited time.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:32 PM

Well, gnu and Andrez, I'm fully aware of the security and privacy issues - and they don't bother me. I just haven't found a reason to be concerned about them.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 16 - 11:43 PM

I will probably upgrade my "big" computer this weekend (This is the desktop with lots of memory and drives and devices attached to it). And if anything doesn't play nicely, I'll quickly convert back to Win7. Why? Because I will have captured the Win10 Product Key, meaning I can go back and update to it later, if I want, after the 1 year period.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 12:42 AM

After returning the first machine I bought with a factory installed Win 10, I searched for and found one from a different manufacturer that seems to run better. I've found ways to configure things to look very much like Windows 7 and to decline to participate in any "sharing".   

So far my 16 year old version of MS Office runs on it, as do my old versions of PrintShop, PaintShop and Picasa. I even found a place to download my Win 7 card games with much nicer looking "cards" than those which come with Win 10. That's pretty well all I need to keep me happy.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: ragdall
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 12:45 AM

(blush) I forgot to log into the Cat on this new machine. I was the previous Guest poster.
rags

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:21 AM

I have found a problem with video cards on older computers that I've converted to Windows 10. Win 10 comes with a generic video driver that seems to work with just about every video adapter, but it doesn't work very well. If your video card manufacturer hasn't come up with a Win 10 driver, chances are that you will have inferior video. I understand that Nvidia is very cheap about this, and hasn't come up with drivers for video chipsets more than about 5 years old.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Andrez
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 01:40 AM

Well Joe, I am sufficiently aware of the security and privacy issues for my needs. This knowledge has been added to as a result of reading Bill D's post and they certainly do bother me such that I am unwilling to risk my privacy or my data to the care of Win 10 especially when Win 7 does everything I need.

We may have differing views and I respect that and as such we will both need to live with the consequences of those views, as with most things in life.

That said there will be 'zillions' of people, 'Catters' included, who simply want to use a computer to write, compose or play music, edit pictures and surf the Internet. They have no need for 'improved customer experiences', as noted in the ongoing changes to the MS Office software interfaces, they just want computer OS's and software that are consistent, work reliably and are secure from third party malware.

These are the folks who are most at risk of harm from the new computing model that underpins Win 10 and I think that Microsoft owes people in this category some kind of "Duty of Care" to be upfront about what the consequences of upgrading to the latest OS or software iteration (i.e. Win 10) might mean for them.

Sadly when it comes to consumer ethics or making mega profits out of user info, data and locking users into a permanent software 'subscription cycle', it is pretty obvious what Wins out.

Anyone contemplating a Win 10 upgrade should reflect on that old adage: "If it aint broke, don't fix it" unless there is evidence of a clear and significant improvement in functionality or other productivity gain. Works for me anyway!

Cheers,

Andrez

PS: On a separate note, Adobe's approach to consumers and software is no better these days either.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 08:32 PM

If it aint broke why fix it?

Exactly - I have taken all four of the computer family I use back to XP and will stay there despite no support from microsoft.

I still use Dos on occasion and what a joy that is.

Up yours microsoft.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 06:38 AM

I suppose I missed what the point was because I only ever run Windows in a Virtual Machine on my Mac - all when required.

I am running XP, Win 7 Ultimate (or whatever name they give the one with most choices) and Win 10.

Because these can be and usually are run as separate entities, I'm not plagued by upgrade messages. Indeed, if I don't need to be online to use that specific software, I disconnect from the internet anyway.

Must admit, I find all operating systems appear to be too Big Brotherish for me (including the Mac) and if I was starting again and only needed basic facilities, I'd go for Ubuntu Linux or similar every time. It's simple, efficient and super quick - what's more, usually free - an absolute no-brainer.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 07:21 AM

If XP is no longer supported, does it still need to be activated over the internet or phone,
if we need to reinstall old PCs.. ???

Is it even possible to still activate it..???

I'm fully aware there are dodgy cracked versions 'available' but I've never trusted the security or reliability using them.
so never bothered trying.

Or maybe these days it might the best option...????

I just don't know.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 10:20 AM

Millions of people are still running Windows XP
but if they connect to the internet they're "sitting ducks for cybercriminals to attack".

You still need to activate XP or it stops working after 30 days. (You can get round this but it's not simple.)

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 12:55 PM

Have you TRIED to activate XP? You may get a warning that it's unsupported, but that's no reason not to activate it.

I've often gone through to Microsoft to register/activate on the telephone, it's been dead simple.

Give it a go and see.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Brian May
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 01:00 PM

I've just checked and it looks as if you can still activate XP - presumably you will need a valid key/serial.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Eddie1 - Sans cookie as ever
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 02:19 PM

A couple of years ago, I bought a tablet for two reasons:
1. To access e-mail & social media when away from home without lugging my laptop with attachments and
2. To play out music on my radio show.
It worked fine really but had Windows 8.1 which I hated so I upgraded to Windows 10. It continued to work fine, could even use it to edit interviews, until, about 3/4 weeks ago, presumably after a mysterious upgrade, NO AUDIO! tried to restore to a previous date but no success, followed all the advice online, updated drivers, uninstalled and rebooted etc, all to no avail! Finally settled into a Chat session with a Microsoft techie which stretched into nearly 90 minutes. After him trying pretty well everything I had tried myself, with the same results, his solution was a total re-install of Windows 10. Fine except we got the dreaded message, "Insufficient Free space on Hard drive!" It seems there is no way a USB stick or memory card will do. Took it back to retailer although it was way past any guarantee and their techie did everything Ihad tried and the Microsoft guy had tried with the same results. Apparently I cannot increase the hard disk space! Only suggestion was to buy a new tablet! GRRRR!!!!
Eddie

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Andrez
Date: 10 Jun 16 - 11:54 PM

Hi Eddie1, its seems odd that if there was enough HD space to update from Win 8.1 to Win 10 then logically speaking at least there should be enough space on your HD to erase the previous contents and do a new reinstallation of OS's 8.1 or Win 10. Did your contact with 'techs' suggest reinstalling 8.1 and then updating to Win 10 to see if you could regain the audio?

That said, 'built in obsolescence' is another one of those grey ethical areas that software companies just skirt around and use to generate continued profits at our expense.

As one example, I recently had advice that my Trend Micro virus software in a virtual environment was no longer supported and I needed to upgrade. That would have meant not only upgrading my OS but also other mainstream software and apps and then losing use of other legacy software that will not run on later OS's. So my choice was to be forced to go to all that bother, or buy another product that was still compatible or disconnect from the Internet whenever I wanted to use that particular machine. Not too hard to work out the simplest option there.

Oh and by the way, great article DaveRo. Had a look through at some of the other links referred to in the article you cited and thought they might be useful in highlighting some of the issues under discussion in this thread above.

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2015/09/14/microsoft-downloads-windows-10-to-your-computer-even-if-you-dont-want-it-yet/

http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/what-is-the-windows-bt-folder-on-my-hard-drive/

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:57 AM

Things have moved on since 2015. This is more recent:
Microsoft's Windows 10 push is effective, damaging, desirable, and deceptive

See also this_thread (which started on the same topic as this one.)

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:01 AM

A recent article from a guy who is a Microsoft fan....even he has some criticisms of Win 10 and its processes.

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/06/microsofts-windows-10-push-is-effective-damaging-desirable-and-deceptive/

It is obvious that there are certain improvements in security and OS features involved, but many doubts about the loss of control over updates for users.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Newport Boy
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 10:15 AM

I still run XP in a virtual machine for the three Windows programs I can't do without - Filemaker Pro, Quo2 & GPSU. I no longer bother with antivirus, but take regular snapshots of the machine file. If XP should pick up an infection I revert to an earlier snapshot. None of my data files are in the virtual machine and I don't use it to access the internet. I haven't had a problem in 8 years.

Activating XP doesn't seem to be a problem if you have a valid copy. My copy has been installed on 3 different real machines (one at a time) and in half a dozen virtual machines. I use the telephone activation and I suspect that MS have lost interest in XP.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:41 PM

Major Win 10 update coming up this summer - Microsoft Build 2016.

See the MS evangelists selling it on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD05gmBNksk&feature=youtu.be

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: gnu
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 02:48 PM

GUEST,Eddie1 - Sans cookie as ever - PM

Reset to factory condition? I couldn't even boot my laptop after WIN10 upgrade.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 03:31 PM

I had to resize a partition before proceeding (which I am about to do - the partition is now a bit larger):

Error: We couldn't update the system reserved partition

I used the MiniTool Partition Wizard because the other one seemed to have too much baggage that upset Kasptersky and Malwarbytes. I rarely override one of their warnings.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jun 16 - 05:40 PM

It took a while, lots of defaults need resetting to my preferred look/feel/functionality.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jun 16 - 01:07 PM

Two more useful sites:

Opt out of personalized ads. You have to do this on every browser program you use. Not just for Win10.

from PC World: A short video shows 4 settings to turn off to retain your security. Some of these settings are pretty creepy.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: gnu
Date: 18 Jun 16 - 06:22 PM

By golly, the critter went and done it on his main PC (after last summer when the WIN 10 upgrade crashed and burned my laptop, I was afeared). Now, that cloud stuff and all? I think I turned all that off when I did the install. Then, the swearing began. Until I wanted to check out a site that didn't appear in my SCREWED UP favourites in Edge. Edge put me on the edge of my seat, if not further, for a wee bit. That's when I was asked what App I wanted to use and THERE IT WAS! IE. I clicked it and got my IE back with all my favs and IE working just like it always did. Pinned it to the taskbar and I stopped swearing... for now. We'll see. But, I am cool with it for now.

Thanks for the links, Acme.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 12:15 AM

I don't piss about with IE or, now, the dreaded Edge. I've used Firefox for years, works great, no reason to change.

Now, as they are switching Windows Live Mail off at the end of June, what I want is for MS to sort out the crappy Mail App, so that I can manage folders etc. within the app, and without having to log in through my internet browser.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 04:47 PM

I just came across Spybot Anti-Beacon which was designed to deal with known issues regarding Telemetry and Tracking in Windows 10 (and now also W7 and 8). It's free and appears a useful tool. Anyone tried it?

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Jun 16 - 06:29 PM

Don't know what happened above.

Eddie1.

Don't know where you are geographically but I had similar problems with my tablet, which I acquired for much the same reasons as you, and "wonderful" Windows 10.

I took it to my little man - actually he is quite a big man - and after we had downloaded all and any data to a stick he reformatted it and installed XP.

I only turn on the wifi when I want to use the web and have all the settings set to non automatic.

It now works fine and additionally means I can use the software I have been using for years before Microsoft "improved" it and made it unworkable.

All the above was done quite legally by the way and cost me £30.

Best of luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 02:08 AM

Do you use Firefox on XP?

"Google has announced that it will end Windows XP support for its Chrome browser in April 2016. So, as of April, Windows XP users will have only one choice for updated, serviced, maintained, and secured web browsing: Firefox."

(From here)

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 03:22 AM

If you're asking me, Dave - I used it when I had XP, then 8.1 and now 10.
It's a great browser, I need nothing else.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 04:06 AM

I was actually asking GUEST,Guest, who wrote that they'd installed XP.

Win 7 would be a better choice - it will get security fixes for a few years yet. (But 40-50% of Firefox XP users cannot upgrade to Win 7 because they don't meet the minimum spec.)

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 07:50 AM

Sorry Dave, my misunderstanding.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 10:06 AM

No need to apologise, Backwoodsman. I agree that Firefox is a great browser, more customisable than any other. I've used it since it was called Netscape 2!

On the subject of Win 10, you can download an install disk from here:
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10ISO *
and activate it with a Win 7/8 key.
I did that the other day and installed it on a spare drive. I just skipped entering a key (I don't have one). It installed and updated OK. I expect it'll insist on a key after a while.

* Change en-gb in that URL to en-us or whatever language you want.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 10:48 AM

Quick question before I forget again... and we run out of time to claim free Win 10...

So far we have only been talking about the basic home user Win 10.

But what about any 'Pro' versions...

Does the Win 10 Pro actually allow user control of updates,
and user control to stop Win 10 phoning home to microsoft..

I ask because I might have a couple of legitimate unused Win 7 Pro serial numbers...

If anyone here already knows the answers, that'd be a big help...

cheers...

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 11:34 AM

Yes, Win 10 Pro gives more options to the user. I'm not sure if they're all of the ones you want - if you look at the short video I posted a link to it tells you how to turn off the keylogging and such that Win10 put in and sets as default. And if you install then revert back, make a point of downloading a small program to help capture your program key (also linked above) so you can install it again later without paying (because you originally did it in the free period).

But the thing is, the Win7 Pro has to already be up and running on the computer, because MS looks to see what you have running and loads the upgrade over it. If you can download the preferred Win10 without upgrading at the time then you might be able to enter your product key when you install, but this is only a guess.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 11:50 AM

I upgraded win7 pro to win10 pro on my wife's Lenovo laptop. I don't think it gives you any greater control over instrumentation (which is the less loaded word than 'phoning home') or control over updates than the home version, but it may do. There is a win10 enterprise edition, meant for businesses, which I believe does gives you more control.

Windows 10 Home vs Windows 10 Pro

(Win 10 pro doesn't contain NFS client - which as a Linux user is annoying. That needs enterprise.)

It's just occured to me that when I downloaded and installed Win 10 from the DVD, as I described, it didn't ask whether I wanted home or pro. I assume it's the same software - until you enter a product key.

You don't need to set up a Microsoft account if you don't want their 'one drive'. Just skip that step.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,EBarnacle
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 11:55 AM

I have found that Win 7 Starter can load on relatively slow machines as long as you have enough RAN [at least 1.5 GB]

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 12:06 PM

Acme wrote: If you can download the preferred Win10 without upgrading at the time then you might be able to enter your product key when you install, but this is only a guess.

Yes, you should be able to install Win 10 from the DVD you create (my link a few posts back) and then activate it with your Win7/8 key. You no longer have to upgrade first.

Activation in Windows 10

That's the theory, anyway. Since I don't have a Win 7 key I couldn't try it.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 12:17 PM

Win 7 needs only 1Gb of RAM (32 bit version).
Windows 7 system requirements

XP only needed a 233MHz processor, 64MB of RAM, and 1.5GB of HDD.

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 12:25 PM

cheers mates, I wish I had time and more motivation to experiment with all this
and maybe contribute some findings...
But I'm up to my neck in family health problems...

Still.. got just over a month left.

I bought the Win 7 Pro serials cheap off Amazon some time ago as 'refurb / OEM"

If they work [and I've not been ripped off], and before family problems intervened,
the plan was for my main music production PC & laptop to be running Win 7 Pro.

Unless someone convinces me Win 10 pro will be a definite improvement.....?????

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: DaveRo
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 12:44 PM

I found Win 7 (pro) and Win 10 (pro) were functionally very similar. Win 7 will get security updates until 2020, Win 10 until 2025, so the main benefit is that extension. But who knows how Win 10 will change during that time?

If you value the stability of your system I would stick with Win 7.

Though personally I prefer the look and feel of Win 10 (but I don't actually use it - I just maintain it.)

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 20 Jun 16 - 02:22 PM

Yes I use Firefox.

Win 7, 8 10 etc all will not allow me to run software (microsoft office) I have been using for years and am more than happy with.

Incidentally I also use PictureIt! for photo file editing - better than sliced bread.

Long live the Luddites!

Subject: RE: Tech: More Windows generally & 10 specifically
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Jun 16 - 10:43 AM

About browsers... I know that Firefox is the most common alternative people choose, but one man has used the open source code to create https://www.palemoon.org/technical.shtml as a special alternative. It will take 'most' of the Firefox add-ons and has similar feel. Many Firefox users were turned off by the Australis interface.
I installed it a couple of years ago and never looked back.

Here are several pages devoted to explaining the differences...there are many more.

https://www.palemoon.org/technical.shtml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Moon_(web_browser)

https://www.reddit.com/r/browsers/comments/30hnw3/some_reasons_why_i_prefer_pale_moon_browser_to/

http://www.thewindowsclub.com/firefox-vs-pale-moon-browser