BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'

Subject: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 07:51 AM

Given the hoo hah in the Media over Mrs Leadstone's comments on parenthood, is there anyone who does not believe that having had children has made them "better people"?

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Megan L
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 07:56 AM

Probably quite a few woman regretted the day they let a man get haud o their hapenny beside there are far to many stupid days floating around as it is

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 07:58 AM

That was not the question Megan....   :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 09:09 AM

Over here it is not coincidental that women had to fight 80 years to get the vote after black men were given the right.

The ban the bomb movement that led to ending atmospheric testing and other things was virtually a women's movement. Motherhood and an innate empathy was the impetus for Mothers against drunk driving.

I daresay most of us may not have survived the cold war or driving at night without motherhood movements. No one at all would be here without motherhood.

Ake , is an evil twisting of motherhood something you are mulling over to benefit right wing supremacy? What is your answer to your question?

Ake you should lead a movement to become A neo labour hero and WELCOME heroines TO YOUR New PARTY. There is a void . Fill it.
The women will make you successful. You won't make it on your own.
No one does.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 10:05 AM

There is already Mothering Sunday.

I can turn your question around akenaton, and ask, "Is there anyone who doesn't feel a worse person through not having had children?"
and I can also answer that: me!
I have no children, but that doesn't make me any worse (or better) than a mum.

You have to be very careful when speaking about childlessness; circumstances (infertility, multiple miscarriages, death of an infant, poor health etc) may have prevented a woman from having offspring, and such issues as this can cause immense pain and sadness.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 10:20 AM

It would probably land on the calendar between National Pancake Day and National Check Your Tire Pressure Day. A blip on the radar. If it couldn't be commercialized business wouldn't bother with it. It would be a patronizing sop to the hard work of women.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: meself
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 10:47 AM

'National Check Your Tire Pressure Day'?! Darn! I missed it again!! Boy, am I in trouble .....

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 11:33 AM

I don't think anyone would maintain that not having children made you a "worse person", there would be no way of determining that.

But having children makes most people less selfish, less self absorbed; certainly from a personal viewpoint I think that both my wife and I are "better people" because of our children. It is a personal thing we all need to ask ourselves the question that the women here are studiously avoiding.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 12:18 PM

Additionally I am not referring to childless couples...for whatever reason, but to mothers and fathers who ALREADY have children, they are the only ones who can look bask and make any sort of comparison.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 12:35 PM

That woman is a sanctimoneous bible basher, and I hope she loses. Anyway. Teresa May looks infinitely more mumsy than that cow!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 12:42 PM

If having children makes people less selfish, then by inference not having them leaves one as selfish and self-absorbed as ever?

There are many other ways of character-building and developing selflessness..

I'm not 'prickly' about this, as I'm quite happy with how my life has turned out; I've found travelling to less-prosperous countries and witnessing dire poverty and want has made me infinitely more aware of people's needs. One's own rather shallow self-interest tends to wane when confronted by extreme poverty and despair.
And I have encountered several 'mothers' over a long life in UK that hardly deserved the name. They certainly had little reason to be 'Proud'.
No, I think this idea smacks a bit of Smugness. Sorry!

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Michael
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 12:47 PM

Is Mother's Pride Day a day for loafing about? (UK only)

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 12:51 PM

Hahahaha Michael! One could be said to be 'buttering them up'.
But that would be rather crusty...

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 01:25 PM

That was indeed intentional Michael....well spotted

Are there no mums and dads on this forum?

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 03:04 PM

Yes. And they think it is a silly idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 16 - 03:31 PM

It's common practice to pick a heading for a thread to get people to come in. Sometimes, as in this case, it isn't too closely related to the intended topic, as in this case.

I'm sure there are people who might admit that they have been rotten parents, and maybe worse people because of being parents. I'd suspect the problem might be further back than that, but it would have been better if they hadn't had children.

And of course there are lots of great people who, for one reason or other haven't had children, in many case through choice.

But I am also sure that many people, and I'd confidently think most people who, whether they recognise it or not, are better people because thay have had children.

Having children means having troubles you might avoid without them. But my experience is that people who managed one way and another to avoid having troubles of one or another tend to be a bit lacking something. Not that there are many, if there are indeed any in the long run. Best get your share of troubles in sooner than later.

But let's not talk about this Andrea Leadweight please...

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Mr Red
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 01:48 AM

well, speaking as one who has no children, does that make me a worse person?

It is often said that I am good with children, but then I give them back after an hour or so. And did I ever grow up?
At Folky events I do like to make the kids feel they are included, usually with kiddy type jokes, after all they represent our best chance that the genre will survive (at least till my attire fades). And the musical skills they can (and do) acquire is scaaaaaary.

Leadsom (née Salmon) isn't that just such an appropriate name for a Prime Minister? Or is there something fishy about her?

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 10:01 AM

Does anyone, apart from the person who thinks up these ideas, actually take any notice of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 10:14 AM

After a lifelong career in primary teaching and a Tawny Owl of a Brownie pack, also co-organiser of a youth club and head of a summertime creche for non-English speaking young children in Glasgow, I can surely say I have quite a large experience of children. I have taken groups abroad too, forty at a time, with adult helpers.
I like children immensely (obviously) but all that hasn't made me a better person or made me feel 'proud' in any way. One just did it.

I feel Ms Leadsom has enormously damaged her pitch here with this posturing; it's backfired rather badly!

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 12:24 PM

Another obscure UK political fight. Of course. Meaningless to anyone else in the world.

May I make a suggestion? When you start one of these he said/she said squabbles that end up being the Jim and Keith show or the Ake and Greg show . . . provide a few links to stories online so we know what the hell you're fighting about.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Senoufou
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 01:30 PM

Eh??...an 'obscure political fight..'?
We're talking about the two female front-runners in the choice of a new Conservative leader, who will be the Prime Minister of UK, until an election takes place.
What a shame that 'anyone else in the world' finds this 'meaningless'.
Rather insular of 'the rest of the world' isn't it?

And Jim, Keith, Ake and Greg are presumably as entitled as 'the rest of the world' to post here.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 01:42 PM

I find it fairly meaningless because I don't have the slightest clue what you're all talking about. People criticize Americans for thinking we're the center of the world. You do it too. It's quite possible it's a natural phenomenon and EVERYBODY does it, but don't NOT expect a "what are you on about?" from the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 02:47 PM

"I like children immensely (obviously) but all that hasn't made me a better person or made me feel 'proud' in any way. One just did it."

Maybe that's the kind of judgement we aren't best placed to make for ourselves...

I agree that if people want to talk about politicians in this kind of context they really ought to explain what they are on about. But the topic of how having children affects us is a universal one.

Of course there is what the writer Cyril Connolly wrote about "there is no more sombre enemy of good art than the pram in the hall" - but I think there is sufficient evidence of great art being produced by parents to counter that. But it's true enough that it's a pretty heavy commitment.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 02:49 PM

Even without the "obscure" political overtones, I think it is still a rather interesting subject to discuss.

Still haven't heard anyone deny that having children has made them better people.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 03:29 PM

Give us some context, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 05:00 PM

I certainly think that we should be proud of women who have devoted themselves to the care and raising of children. There ave been quite a few pithy and insightful things written on how this is a noble career. But as already said not every one has kids for one reason or another, and probably not usually selfish reasons. And some, like senoufou might be thought of as honory mothers , having been involved with children so much simply out of loving interest. Often , in church, on mothering Sunday, all the women are given flowers , at least partly ,I think recognizing this. Certainly chide are can be challenging and demanding , but it is not the only thing in life that is character forming.....or hopefully is...

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 05:01 PM

Look at it this way, Ake. It's clear you don't know very much about American politics, so make the same assumption about Americans knowing very little about UK politics. At least if you post some citations I'll know to go searching for the rest of the story in a more balanced context. ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 05:11 PM

There's nothing obscure about the subject. What's obscure is what the fecking subject is. The opening post references a "Mrs Leadstone", which is apparently a derogatory "joke". If it had mentioned Andrea Leadsom by name, most of us Yanks would have known exactly what the subject is. Instead, OP decided to play cute. Maybe calling her "Mrs Leadstone" is as common in the UK as calling George W. Bush "Dumbya" in the US, but I'd never heard it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 05:50 PM

Sorry BWL that was a simple typo.....no joke intended I don't usually go in for the childish practice of name calling.

When reading about Mrs Leadsom's problems with the media the thought struck me that it would be quite an interesting subject for a thead.
Mother's pride is rather a large UK bakery firm, just a wee joke to add a little leavity......in the best possible taste of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 07:01 PM

It's not just mothers whose lives are liable to be turned over by having children. I'd say Cyril Connolly was if anything more thinking about male writers and suchlike he knew who'd turned in the literary life when the pram turned up.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 11:11 PM

"But having children makes most people less selfish,"

I'd quibble the word "most" in that statement after observing/suffering far too many extremely selfish middle class parents
indulging their spoilt brats to 'express' themselves, and encourage them to run amok at social music events...

[still haven't recovered from that well off hippy family who liked our band, with their 7 posh feral kids that used to plague our gigs & parties..]... 😬

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 Jul 16 - 11:19 PM

.. I'm sleepy.. I meant to work the phrase "sense of entitlement" into that minor grumpy rant..

Though I daresay more than a few of you will immediately recognise the kind of parents that get me pissed off...???

Maybe the West Country is a magnet for them...???????

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Jul 16 - 03:03 AM

when remarks get taken out of context, and used for political gain, and then reported in the press and people react...........

well, see above.

Subject: RE: BS: Should there be a 'Mother's Pride Day'
From: Bugsy
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 12:01 AM

"I like children immensely (obviously) but all that hasn't made me a better person or made me feel 'proud' in any way. One just did it."

So do I! Though I couldn't eat a Whole one. Maybe I could on a couple of slices of "Mothers Pride".

Cheers

Bugsy