Lovely Lovely Vinyl

Subject: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 03:47 AM

Visiting Uxbridge (UK) last weekend - well someone has to go there - I discovered yet another of those resurgent vinyl shops selling 2nd hand but REAL LP vinyl records.

It had a Folk section. Ooo - just like the old days of the 1960s. I leafed through the LPs and there was a gem: a Trailer Sampler featuring The Young Tradition (with Royston Wood, Heather Wood, and Peter Bellamy), and the Copper Family (with John, Ron and Bob). VGC+ and only £3.

I talked to the guy about the one late Dave Bulmer and his sitting on the whole Trailer / Leader catalogue - refusing to even re-release Nic Jones songs. The guy didn't know what I was talking about.

So these little shops - which deserve supporting - are also selling classic folk LPs at silly low prices. There must be some gems out there.

In fact there are lots of vinyl record shops in and around London.

Of course there are the supermarket rip-offs - selling CDs copied to vinyl with all of the imperfections of audio compression. But then if you want the real thing then go to the real vinyl shops!!!

Lovely.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: DaveRo
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 04:11 AM

Would that be TRA SAM 13? I bought it in the early 70s. I'd never heard of the YT but I saw it had the Lyke Wake Dirge on it, and my friend from Yorkshire was always going on about the Lyke Wake walk.

So it was the first time I heard Peter Bellamy. Little did I know how much that would influence my taste in music over the next 40 years!

The hours I've spent in second-hand record shops flicking though the LPs!

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 04:14 AM

Vinyl never went away really. At the height of the cassette and CD crazes, people were still making and spinning vinyl discs - often as part of the mixing scene - because of the superior sound quality and ease of mix-making.

It's now on an upswing, with many new albums being released simultaneously on CD, download and vinyl. I still have all my vinyl singles and albums, and still have my old Garrard turntable.

Tape can deteriorate; CD longevity is questionable; digital storage formats can become obsolete (remember videodisc?) - but, unless you mistreat it, vinyl is long-lasting as a secure medium.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 04:17 AM

New vinyl shop just opened in Aberdeen. Folk section is crap at the moment, but I'm hoping I may be able to help them there :)

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 04:18 AM

Would that be TRA SAM 13? Yes indeed it is. One of the best records I've bought in years.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: G-Force
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 10:16 AM

Superior sound quality??? That's if you ignore the hiss, crackle, rumble, wow and all the other distortion. I heaved a sigh of relief when CDs came in and although I still have my turntable connected I hardly ever play vinyl, which just sits there taking up room.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 10:39 AM

Play mostly cds for convenience and clear sound, but still play vinyl as like will I also still got my collection of singles and LPs. And although you get a bit of crackle ,there is something about vinyl which I like to call a warmer sound.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 05 Oct 16 - 12:50 PM

If I'm free to choose from all the old media, I'll take reel-to-reel tape.

The best parts about vinyl (and shellac) is the stuff that's never going to make it onto CD or the cloud and/or will not transfer well if it ever does.

And there are advantages to having the PDF liner notes on an enhanced CDr reissue too.

The more it changes...

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 04:19 AM

But the snap, crackle and pop can be removed digitally. The 'warmth' of vinyl can be transferred to digital at high bit rates with WAV or FLAC. However as I said avoid the scam vinyls in supermarkets which are just audio compressed recordings straight from CDs. Yes - reel-reel tape at 7 1/2 inches per seconds is great - but pre-recorded tapes are hard to find - and there are none for Brit. folk.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 08:22 AM

You may be overestimating the capabilities of noise reduction software, certainly at a consumer level.
.. and even the top end 'pro' mastering audio repair software is not without problems and limitations....

Also, whatever the sentimental/mythical phenomenon of vinyl warmth actually 'objectively' is,
Hi Def audio wavs/flacs [24/96 or 24/192] may be getting so much closer to replicating that 'warmth'...

It all depends... there are far too many variables to state dogmatically that vinyl will always sound better than digital...

I speak as someone who grew up in the 1970s with a father who worshipped audiophile vinyl Hi Fi
and indoctrinated me in the dark rituals and customs of OCD vinyl cleaning, handling, and tone arm & cartridge set up...

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 08:44 AM

One thing in Vinyl's favour...

An original mint first edition pressing of a vintage 60s/70s LP may produce a better sounding digital transfer
if the surviving master tapes have deteriorated sufficiently to lose their audio 'sparkle', A commercial CD release is only as good as it's master tapes...

This is a constant source of debate amongst 'audiophiles',
certainly now that aging tapes are being remastered and released directly as extortionately priced downloadable HI DEF Wavs/Flacs.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,CJB
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 01:36 PM

"...certainly now that aging tapes are being remastered and released directly as extortionately priced downloadable HI DEF Wavs/Flacs."

Sadly not in the case of Trailer / Leader Master Tapes &/or LPs - but that's another sordid tale ....

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 02:52 PM

We used to plunge old records in boiling water to soften them, then mould them into plant pots. The hole in the middle was just the thing for drainage. The 'pot' was then painted with gloss paint and voila!
(Just imagine how many super records from the fifties and sixties were ruined by us in this way.)
I lived in Hayes (not far from Uxbridge) and the EMI factory churned out records. My friend's mum worked there, and got us all these 'spare' records.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,Pete from seven stars link
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 03:08 PM

Some of my old LPs might , I was once told , be worth a bit......we'll maybe if the wretched cat had not clawed all the ends of the sleeves !

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 16 - 12:24 AM

I see my post in response to

GUEST,CJB - PM
Date: 06 Oct 16 - 01:36 PM

is missing ???.

I always check to confirm my posts have registered, and I dont seem to have mistakenly posted on the wrong thread...
so unless I had a lapse in concentration and failed to check,
any ideas what happened...???

Anyway, I essentially agreed with his point "Sadly not in the case of Trailer / Leader Master Tapes &/or LPs - but that's another sordid tale "

as most 'legacy' Hi Def downloads are extortionately priced remastered vintage back catalogue mega sellers....

But, I do consider sensibly priced Hi Def downloads should be the optimum future for indie folk / roots / rock releases..

[proud to have never paid for lossy mp3s - it's time that misbegotten inferior format was consigned to history...]

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 16 - 10:49 AM

My ears aren't up to hearing any difference beween vinyl and cd.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 16 - 11:27 AM

My ears are becoming more 'problematic'..

But even so, as a music producer, even at home project studio level, I feel a pride & responsibility to ensure
that any recordings [which might only ever be listened to by polite and tolerant family & mates]
should still be best possible audio quality..

Brian Wilson only had one good ear, yet was [is still ???] a genius and legendary recording artist & producer...[cue mono versus stereo argument....]

CD technology is in redundant decline; vinyl despite trendy lifestyle fads and fashionable resurgence, is only slightly less a minority obsession & pursuit than folk music.... 🙄


Btw.. I just aquired one of the last of the final batch of brand new manufactured Hi Fi separates TEAC cassette recorder/players in Europe...

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: GUEST,Rossey
Date: 07 Oct 16 - 11:56 AM

Original old style thick vinyl could be great. However, I know that light/thin and badly 'cut' vinyl was awful. My old man had a folk song he wrote, recorded on a mass produced LP for TV advertised Telstar company in 1988. This was just as Cd's were coming in. The song was slow, and you needed to hear the backing in proper quality. When played on the radio, it killed the song, as it sounded muffled and draggy as the levels went down. Also any minor scratches or dirt effects got magnified on shallow cut vinyl. On CD it was fine. The cutting and quality of vinyl used can make or break a track.

Subject: RE: Lovely Lovely Vinyl
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Oct 16 - 12:41 PM

here's one informal case study...

The Move: first 2 UK LPS

I was too young to own or hear the original first mono pressings.

In the early 70s I had budget label MFP compilations of the tracks in fake processed stereo, and a Two on One cassette.

Late 70s I acquired US repressings from a cheap cut out shop.

1990s whatever dodgy released CD transfers from far from first generation copy tape backups I could find.

2000s the official CDs transferred from original long lost masters, bodged with heavy handed compression & noise reduction..

Last week, the latest official 2016 remastered CDs supposedly with improved sound and dynamic range...

All the while in the last 50 years, the original masters will have aged and required more 'attention' from sound restoration techs...

As are my ears, no longer as 'golden' as in my early teens and 20s..

So which rease sounds better...?????? 🤔

At the moment I have an ear infection, and everything sounds like I'm under water... great game innit....