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Before 'God Save the King'?

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Richard Bridge 20 Oct 16 - 08:02 AM
Jack Campin 20 Oct 16 - 08:31 AM
The Sandman 20 Oct 16 - 10:34 AM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Oct 16 - 10:34 AM
Jack Campin 20 Oct 16 - 12:13 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Oct 16 - 01:48 PM
Jack Campin 20 Oct 16 - 02:12 PM
Joe_F 20 Oct 16 - 06:07 PM
Jack Campin 20 Oct 16 - 07:10 PM
Joe_F 21 Oct 16 - 06:24 PM
Steve Shaw 21 Oct 16 - 08:09 PM
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Subject: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 08:02 AM

I can't find an answer to this elsewhere.

As you all know the UK's national anthem (let's not debate the lack of Parliamentary adoption) is "God save the King" or Queen according to gender.

The tune is not definitely attributed, but the song with words was first performed in 1745.

What was the English (or British) national anthem before that?


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 08:31 AM

There wasn't one, and "God Save the Quing" has only been seen as the "national" anthem in the 20th century - before that it was "The King's Anthem", and is always described that way in 18th century publications.


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:34 AM

God save Oliver Cromwell?


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 10:34 AM

Nobody seems to have thought of National Anthems before. There were drinking songs like "Here's a Health Unto His Majesty" or the French "Vive Henri IV" - Here's a version of that I rather like

But theidea of official National Anthems seems to have been a 20th century invention.
I've thought it poignant that the opposite sides in the Great War both used the God Save the King tune for patriotic purposes.
..........
"God save the Quing" - I like that. Of course you could have the meritocratic version instead "God Save the Keen".


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 12:13 PM

I wonder if the first nation to have a song that was labelled as a national anthem was the US? Before theirs was adopted, there were lots of songs for political causes, but it took a while before anybody thought of nation-states as being causes that needed their own songs, still less official ones.

In a lot of places you get disputes about whether the official rallying song of a liberation movement that played a large part in bringing a nation-state into existence should be the national anthem afterwards or not.


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 01:48 PM

The Star-Spangled banner was only officially adopted as the US National Anthem in 1931.

I don't think God Save the Queen/King has ever been given official national anthem status, it's really a Royal Anthem.


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 02:12 PM

A few more dates:

Marseillaise - adopted as the French national anthem in 1795 (surely the first anywhere), subsequently banned and reinstated in 1879.

Hatikvah - adopted by the Zionist Congress in 1897 but not officially the anthem of Israel until 2004.

German Overalls - song of the revolution of 1848, adopted by Germany in 1922, again by West Germany in 1952 and by unified Germany in 1990.

Italian anthem - song of the Risorgimento from 1847, adopted semi-officially as a national anthem in 1946 but only ratified in 2012.

Russian anthem: based on the state anthem of the USSR from 1944, words deleted in the 50s because they mentioned Stalin, adopted as the anthem of Russia with new words under Putin in 2000.

Looks like everybody else has been playing catch-up with the French.


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 06:07 PM

Russia adopted an imperial anthem (God Save the Tsar) in 1833; you can hear the tune in Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture. After the revolution, of course, that would not do; the provisional government adopted the Varshavyanka (I think), and the Bolshies replaced it with the Internationale. The USSR replaced that in 1944 as a gesture to the Allies.

It is true that the Star-Spangled Banner did not become official till 1931, but it had been the de facto anthem for a long time. During W.W. I, you might be lynched for not standing up when it was played.


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 20 Oct 16 - 07:10 PM

Russia adopted an imperial anthem (God Save the Tsar) in 1833; you can hear the tune in Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture

Which suggests that Tchaikovsky's historical scholarship wasn't up to much...


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Oct 16 - 06:24 PM

Jack: True enough. I hadn't noticed that. %^)


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Subject: RE: Before 'God Save the King'?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Oct 16 - 08:09 PM

God save the six foot six big enchilada hunter-gatherer.


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