BS: Marijuana and US election

Subject: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 06:35 PM

One side of the election that gets left out of the media and the threads is the possible impact of ballots about marijuana decriminalisation in nine states. From what I've read that's pretty likely to be supported across the party lines. It's rather good to think that beneath all the hate talk there'll be supporters of Clinton and Trump who'll be voting the same way on this - and mostly in favour it is reported.

If these ballots encourage younger people who otherwwise wouldn't vote to do so, that might help Clinton, but generally it seems that that isn't expected to happen.

If all the ballots pass, especially in California, that could be a tipping point. I reckon England will almost be the last place, possibly skightly ahead of Saudi Arabia and Isis, if that's still around.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 10:18 PM

...errmm so now yanks are smoking strong spliffs whilst armed with semi auto machine guns..

lets hope they just settle down on a nice comfy cushion and gorge on sweet chocolate bars.....

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: Stanron
Date: 05 Nov 16 - 10:33 PM

Hey, if I promise not to vote, can I have some cannabis?

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 04:48 AM

Firstly I think it's despicable to bribe young people to vote by letting them smoke cannabis legally.

Secondly, I've seen at first hand the dreadful, long-term effects of smoking it. In UK Prisons, where I visited for many years, there are thousands of people whose mental health has been wrecked permanently by this drug (as any Prison Officer will tell you). I've seen appalling cases of schizophrenia and depression, and families broken up because of the demotivation and torpor it provokes. I've known personally of two deaths related to this. I've known youngsters who give up their studies, their relationships, their personal hygiene, their interest in life. I've met many, many lads in Prison for dealing it.

Thirdly, I'm so glad that here in UK it's still an illegal drug. Long may it be so.

Those who joke about it, think it's great, think it should be decriminalised haven't seen what I have.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: Senoufou
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 05:00 AM

I've also visited many ex-offenders in our local Mental Hospital, being treated (not terribly successfully) for manic episodes of schizophrenia, and bouts of debilitating depression due to cannabis use. It was absolutely tragic.
It makes me so angry when people minimise the risks and effects of this drug. They obviously haven't seen what I did in that hospital...

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 09:41 AM

All very good arguments for making alcohol illegal as well, Senoufou, given the harm dine to individuals and society by its misuse. The trouble is, whether for alcohol or cannabis, experience seems to show that prohibition doesn't stop use and abuse, but makes things worse.

But there's no particular evidence that in places like California use of cannabis is particularly associated with young people - remember anyone who was 20 in 1960 will now be 76.

In any case, this thread isn't really about the rights and wrongs of decriminalising the use of cannabis, it's about the implications of this issue to the outcome of the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 03:07 PM

Pot does change consciousness. It can change a society into a free source environmental consciousness that can have significant effects on economics and materialism. You be the judge whether this is good or bad.

LSD also changed a portion of society. Particularly in the visual realm and technology.

Contrast the "empty" effects of crack which can give great elation akin to a marvelous invention and discovery, with no accomplishment and no benefit, product or understanding.

Pot has changed elections. In a national election how much pot changes the outcome, I do not know.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 03:35 PM

I fully agree with you Eliza, and I don't think Mr McGrath fully understands the problem, or he would not be equating alcohol abuse with the smoking of cannabis.

I too have spent several years in the fight against drug abuse, through talking to addicts and observing their lifestyle and mental state.

Many addicts tell me that strong cannabis is even more dangerous and mentally debilitating than heroin or cocaine.
After long term use, psychosis almost always ensues.

I would never support anyone who believes in the legalisation of cannabis or hard drugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 03:41 PM

I'm getting a little angry now, what is a "free source environmental consciousness"......sounds like the worst and most dangerous kind of "liberal" mumbo jumbo.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: gnu
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 03:53 PM

Hahahaa! Thread drift and trolls. Just like the old Mudcat days. Have fun. Smoke em if ya got em.

gnighgnu.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 04:15 PM

I wouldn't dresm of equating alcohol abuse with cannabis abuse. Alcohol can be far more deadly, both for its physical and mental effects.

But that's not what I see this thread as about. (Though I'd never suggest the person who starts a thread has any kind of ownership over it or right to dictate where it goes.)

Trump and Clinton both seem to be pretty well agreed on this one, seeing the issue as one that should be left to the individual states. So the only impact it might have on the result would be if the fact of the issue being on the ballot is one that might encourage people who otherwise wouldn't vote to do so, if there was reason to think that such people might be more likely to vote for one or other of the candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 05:14 PM

"Many addicts tell me that strong cannabis is even more dangerous and mentally debilitating than heroin or cocaine. After long term use, psychosis almost always ensues."

What utter nonsense.

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 05:26 PM

I think you are right, Kevin, in that this thread should be about the effect on the US election but, as it seems to have been hijacked by the legalisation argument I will add my 2 pen'urth there.

Leaving the supply and distribution of anything in the hands of criminals is never a good idea. Those who are concerned with the effects of drugs should realise that the criminals in control have a vested interest in ensuring that the sale of those drugs is constantly increased. The only way to curtail this is to take the control of those drugs out of the hands of the criminals. It has worked with nicotine and alcohol. It will work with other drugs.

Legalisation is not about removing control. It is about making it safer and removing a source of income from criminals.

Now, back to the point. As it has been demonstrated that it is nothing to do with the youth vote and nothing to do with party politics, how can the legalisation of marijuana have any effect on the election?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Marihuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 07:47 PM

It should be possible after the election to get some idea of how many people only got round to voting because they cared about this, one way or another, and how their vote on other things might have affected the other results on stuff like who should be President.

Presumably there'd have been people with views about legalisation like aken and senoufou who might have been more moved to vote by this, just as much as there would have been legalisers. And it's an issue that apparently crosses the party divisions, both ways.

There are a lot of variables involved. It should give the electoral numerologists an interesting break from analysing other aspects involving issues where the party divides are clearer.

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: Jack Campin
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 08:55 PM

If there was any way of getting the issue up for public vote in Scotland the result would be much the same: the only party I can see favouring the status quo is the Tories, who are pretty irrelevant.

[Schizophrenia almost always starts developing long before the age when people start using marijuana (Kraepelin's "dementia praecox" label now looks absolutely spot-on, and we know much more about the genetics and physiological mechanisms of the dementia than we did even five years ago). MJ does relieve some of the symptoms, almost instantly and with less side-effects than neuroleptics, so it's hardly surprising schizophrenics go for it, despite its long-term uselessness and (mildly) destructive effects. End digression.]

In North America, the largest force benefiting from the status quo is organized crime, of which the Mexican cartels are the most dramatically visible element. Which US politicians do they actually have in their pocket? Some of the more grandstanding parts of the Christian right?

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 16 - 09:56 PM

There are five states voting on legalisation for general use, but the only one of those is classed as a swing state is Arizona, with 11 electoral votes. Which could of course make all the difference...

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: Pete from seven stars link
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 07:52 AM

I have seen quite a few Facebook posts supporting cannabis use medically with even claims of it as attacking cancer cells . There are calls for its legalisation , and claims that this is being resisted because it would cut the pharmaceutical profits. I am aware that Facebook is not a trustworthy source , like a lot of the internet and media , but I wonder if others here have come across this, and whether you think strictly controlled medical use was realistic.

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 10:19 AM

This very subject was the second story on the news show '60 minutes last night

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 10:42 AM

Something I'd propose is legalise it but only in liquid drinkable form,
or maybe chewy chocolate bars...

Maybe vaping - but as a non smoker and anti public smoker - still not made my mind up on vaping... 😕

Who knows what carcinogenic shit stoners are rolling up in roaches..????

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM

Especially when they mix it with tobacco.

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 05:55 PM

Of the five states with pot on the ballot 3 have a good chance of passing.

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 16 - 07:10 PM

Actually it's nine states for relaxing the ban, though only five for some level of legalisation. The crucial one would be California, where a change in the law would mean it'd be legal for a significant part of the US population.

In Florida, which is also a crucial swing state, they,ve got a ballot on medical marijuana, they've already had a ballot that gave a majority of 58%, but it didn't kick in, because they'd a rule that a 60% was needed. (Maybe David Cameron should have taken his kids to Disney World in Orlando and picked up some hints about how to run a referendum)

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:36 AM

Well, all the ballots passed. That's five more states for legal recreational Marijuana - California, Massachusetts, Arizona, Maine and Nevada - and another four for medical marijuana, which will now be legal in most states.

And no indications it made any difference to the presidential result.

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:53 AM

It will probably make a difference to depressed supporters of Mrs Clinton ......sorry shouldn't joke about this subject.....but just this once Mr McGrath?

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:24 AM

From today's WashPo (blicky).

Subject: RE: BS: Marijuana and US election
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:43 AM

Major opponents of legalisation of marijuana for medical use are some big pharmacological companies. Interesting piece from Washington Post indicatinng why that is.