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BS: The election results show

Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 08:10 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 08:17 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 08:23 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 08:34 PM
Stanron 08 Nov 16 - 09:29 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 09:31 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 09:50 PM
Donuel 08 Nov 16 - 10:25 PM
Steve Shaw 08 Nov 16 - 10:31 PM
SPB-Cooperator 08 Nov 16 - 11:39 PM
Joe Offer 09 Nov 16 - 12:57 AM
Rumncoke 09 Nov 16 - 01:21 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Nov 16 - 01:26 AM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 01:49 AM
TIA 09 Nov 16 - 02:00 AM
SPB-Cooperator 09 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM
Ebbie 09 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM
Joe Offer 09 Nov 16 - 02:17 AM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 02:26 AM
Ebbie 09 Nov 16 - 02:31 AM
Janie 09 Nov 16 - 02:37 AM
Joe Offer 09 Nov 16 - 02:38 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 16 - 02:52 AM
Bonzo3legs 09 Nov 16 - 02:54 AM
Joe Offer 09 Nov 16 - 03:02 AM
Joe Offer 09 Nov 16 - 03:07 AM
mg 09 Nov 16 - 03:28 AM
vectis 09 Nov 16 - 03:33 AM
Senoufou 09 Nov 16 - 03:36 AM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 03:43 AM
Mr Red 09 Nov 16 - 03:47 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Nov 16 - 03:48 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Nov 16 - 03:51 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 16 - 04:03 AM
Nigel Parsons 09 Nov 16 - 04:13 AM
Senoufou 09 Nov 16 - 04:15 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 16 - 05:11 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 05:27 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 05:37 AM
Dave the Gnome 09 Nov 16 - 05:47 AM
Donuel 09 Nov 16 - 06:06 AM
gillymor 09 Nov 16 - 06:08 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 16 - 06:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 06:22 AM
cetmst 09 Nov 16 - 06:30 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 06:37 AM
banjoman 09 Nov 16 - 06:46 AM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 06:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 07:25 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 07:30 AM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 07:33 AM
Jim Carroll 09 Nov 16 - 07:37 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 16 - 07:47 AM
Jason Xion Wang 09 Nov 16 - 07:48 AM
beardedbruce 09 Nov 16 - 07:50 AM
Jason Xion Wang 09 Nov 16 - 07:55 AM
Mrrzy 09 Nov 16 - 08:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 08:27 AM
Backwoodsman 09 Nov 16 - 08:28 AM
bobad 09 Nov 16 - 08:31 AM
olddude 09 Nov 16 - 08:56 AM
Lanfranc 09 Nov 16 - 09:01 AM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 09:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 10:05 AM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM
Jason Xion Wang 09 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 10:43 AM
beardedbruce 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM
meself 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM
Jason Xion Wang 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 11:25 AM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 11:28 AM
Mooh 09 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM
Donuel 09 Nov 16 - 12:05 PM
Donuel 09 Nov 16 - 12:16 PM
robomatic 09 Nov 16 - 12:17 PM
beardedbruce 09 Nov 16 - 12:36 PM
Donuel 09 Nov 16 - 12:39 PM
keberoxu 09 Nov 16 - 01:03 PM
bobad 09 Nov 16 - 01:44 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 01:49 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 02:53 PM
beardedbruce 09 Nov 16 - 03:29 PM
Bill D 09 Nov 16 - 03:35 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 04:00 PM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 04:50 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 05:23 PM
akenaton 09 Nov 16 - 05:36 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 05:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 06:05 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 06:09 PM
Jason Xion Wang 09 Nov 16 - 06:10 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 06:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 07:18 PM
bobad 09 Nov 16 - 07:43 PM
Steve Shaw 09 Nov 16 - 07:58 PM
michaelr 09 Nov 16 - 08:02 PM
Greg F. 09 Nov 16 - 08:08 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 09:08 PM
Donuel 09 Nov 16 - 09:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Nov 16 - 09:51 PM
Joe Offer 10 Nov 16 - 12:24 AM
Ebbie 10 Nov 16 - 12:26 AM
Backwoodsman 10 Nov 16 - 02:27 AM
Ebbie 10 Nov 16 - 02:51 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 16 - 06:39 AM
Steve Shaw 10 Nov 16 - 07:17 AM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 08:11 AM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 09:44 AM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 09:51 AM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 16 - 10:02 AM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 10:15 AM
Joe Offer 10 Nov 16 - 11:21 AM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 11:37 AM
Bill D 10 Nov 16 - 11:49 AM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 11:58 AM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 12:10 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 12:15 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 12:22 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 12:25 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 12:26 PM
Jim Carroll 10 Nov 16 - 12:34 PM
Joe Offer 10 Nov 16 - 12:35 PM
Ebbie 10 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 01:11 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 01:16 PM
Joe Offer 10 Nov 16 - 01:32 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 01:51 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 01:58 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 02:02 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 02:11 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 02:16 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 02:21 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 02:25 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 02:27 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 02:36 PM
MikeL2 10 Nov 16 - 02:49 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 03:11 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 03:17 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 03:18 PM
beardedbruce 10 Nov 16 - 03:21 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 04:00 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 04:45 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 04:57 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 05:07 PM
bobad 10 Nov 16 - 07:04 PM
Steve Shaw 10 Nov 16 - 07:31 PM
olddude 10 Nov 16 - 07:54 PM
Greg F. 10 Nov 16 - 08:04 PM
Donuel 10 Nov 16 - 08:21 PM
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Teribus 11 Nov 16 - 02:24 AM

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Subject: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:10 PM

Grr. Cocked up the start of this thread, so here's my second attempt!

This will be a very ephemeral thread and I may well survive for less than two hours. Bloody late this end and I'm runnning out of red (wine, not Trumpery).

Florida looking good for Clinton, eh? Are things looking up?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:17 PM

Ohio and North Carolina looking good though on very early numbers. Florida looking bloody tight. Jaysus, I need a map. Where are these places? 😂.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:23 PM

Florida slipping. 😳


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 08:34 PM

Jeremy Vine thinks Florida is looking good. I want to share his optimism...


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Stanron
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 09:29 PM

I'm watching on Freeview. Channel 130 is BBC News, 131 is BBC Parliament, 132 is Sky News and, since Al Jez quit the next is 135, RT. They are all covering the election. RT is like a different planet, it always is of course. I'm mostly watching Andrew Neil on BBC News and BBC 1. I don't really get what is being reported. I only learned today that Americans are not allowed to actually vote for their president. There's a whole bunch of people who do that for them. Weird.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 09:31 PM

Clinton is in trouble. I'm going for a shower.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 09:50 PM

I'm beginning to fell miserable. Financial markets are already crashing.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 10:25 PM

Please do not set your hair on fire, that includes mods.
The sun will come up tomorrow. Solar flares arrive later.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 10:31 PM

The bad news is piling in. I'm off to bed.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 08 Nov 16 - 11:39 PM

I feel that the world is drowning in a sewer of neo-fascist rhetoric.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:57 AM

I'm getting worried. Trump said the election was rigged. Maybe, for once, he was right.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Rumncoke
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:21 AM

Almost six thirty on Wednesday morning - been watching all night hoping that I was really asleep and dreaming it all.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:26 AM

Did Trump's promise to intimidate voters happen?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:49 AM

"Good mornin' America....how are ya?"

All apologies should be addressed to....

Pres. D J Trump.
      1600. Pennsylvaia Avenue.
      Washington DC.




City Of New Orleans
Steve Goodman





Riding
on the City of New Orleans
Illinois Central, Monday morning rail
Fifteen cars and fifteen restless riders
Three conductors and twenty-five sacks of mail
All along the southbound odyssey
The train pulls out at Kankakee
And rolls along past houses, farms and fields
Passing trains that have no name
And freight yards full of old black men
And the graveyards of the rusted automobiles

Good morning America, how are you
Say, don't you know me, I'm your native son
I'm the train they call the City of New Orleans
I'll be gone five hundred miles when the day is done


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: TIA
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:00 AM

We are so fooked.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM

All apologies should be sent to the 6 billion+ individuals who will have to bear the brunt of the outcome. Anyway congratulations to America on electing the sneering, bigoted advocate of use of torture, xenophobe, homophobe, misogynist, climate change denier and alleged sexual abuser of women that you wanted. Hope you all enjoy whats coming to you over the next 4 years.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:01 AM

ake, give it a rest. There are people here who are sad and frightened. Sad, because I really thought that Americans, by and large, are smarter than this and frightened because it appears that this country - and therefore, the WORLD - will be in the hands of a megalomaniac.

Oh, hell. Go ahead and have a good giggle. You'll sober up soon enough. You too in all likelihood are going to suffer.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:17 AM

I have spent the last 2 months traveling the United States. I visited 30 states. I found I needed to be careful what I said, all over the country. It was clear to me that support for Trump was strong, but I did not realize it would be strong enough to win this election. I think it is clear that Trump has won and that the Republicans have a majority in both houses of Congress, but there is still a slight chance that Clinton will squeak out a victory.
The issue I worry about most is immigration. What happens to the 11 million undocumented immigrants who are living in the United States, some for decades? And the Mexican border already looks very much like the Berlin Wall. Will he really build a wall that is even worse?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:26 AM

I'm not giggling Ebbie, this is only the beginning and signals a shake up of the whole US political system.
I'm sorry you feel bad and I have always said that I admire the American people......they really can be a great nation, but not without the socially conservative majority.

Mrs Clinton represented big money and the consequential political corruption; people were tired of the lack of representation.....To morrow is a new day


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Ebbie
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:31 AM

"...signals a shake up of the whole US political system."

You may be right- a shake up and shake down to a totalitarian country ruled by whim and know-nothings.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Janie
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:37 AM

I am sad, but not surprised. It's complicated.

We can rise above this, it is definitely within the realm of the possible, and even the probable if one tskes a historical perspective.

Let us know, Ake, if and when you decide you may perhaps know less about the complexities of USA society and politics than those of us who live here, care about our own country, the larger world, and are of at least low average intelligence.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:38 AM

The Associated Press declared Trump winner at 32 minutes past the hour.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:52 AM

Welcome to Dumbfuckistan.
And I thought all the fucktards were in the UK, voting for Brexit!

God Help America! And by association and disassociation, the rest of the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:54 AM

Land of the free? Land of the gullible and stupid it would seem.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:02 AM

Well, Trump's speech was reasonably gracious.
Now it will be kind of like the Beverly Hillbillies moving into the White House. What a long, strange trip it's been.
Let's hope for the best.
Joe


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:07 AM

...and the victory speech ends with the Stones singing "You Can't Always Get What You Want."


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: mg
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:28 AM

The people have spoken and so it is. We will adapt if we have any resources at all and some of the working class might see some improvements. I do not want him to be president but i think the terrible lack of respect for his assumed voters turned the tide. Calling them dumbfickistan,.racist twats and.deplorables helped him win.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: vectis
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:33 AM

The USA has just taken an IQ test and failed miserably.

The only hope you have is that someone shoots him or he prosecuted before he is sworn in. They got Al Capone for not paying his taxes maybe it will work for Trump too.
*Facepalm*


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:36 AM

'...calling them dumbfuckistan, racist twats and deplorables...'
Well, they've certainly left us in no doubt whatsoever that they are ALL of those, haven't they?

In the nineties the expression 'the feelgood factor' became popular.
This morning I'm labouring under the 'feel-absolutely-despondent factor'.

God help us all....


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:43 AM

mg you are absolutely correct.

How bloody elitist, from people who are supposed to be "of the left"

It's called democracy get used to it.
Janie, I don't claim to know more than the American people, but I have been telling THIS section of the American people that they made the wrong choice between Mrs Clinton and Mr Sanders.

The Status Quo was always "a loser"


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:47 AM

If you weren't before, time to be now.

Be afraid America, be very afraid. The shit has hit the fan.

And you thought a third Bush was the nightmare scenario.

Dollar slumps. Just like the Pound slumped. History shows, bounce back will be slight and slow. Expect all those cheap goods to get more expensive.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:48 AM

How is someone who, allegedly, fails to make good on contracts with suppliers to some of his wilder schemes going to be trusted to make good on international agreements?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:51 AM

Luke 16:10
He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 04:03 AM

Can we have that in English please, Nigel? I doubt the Dumbfuckistanians will be able to understand it otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 04:13 AM

Sorry, I have a preference for the King James bible.
here is a more modern translation:

New American Standard Bible
"He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much."

In other words, if he is dishonest in his personal & business dealings, you can expect him to be, basically, the same in his dealings as President.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Senoufou
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 04:15 AM

One imagines the Mexicans ordering building materials and getting that wall started themselves ASAP.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:11 AM

America's 11-9
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:27 AM

Bloody Florida. 💩


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:37 AM

I'm just watching the voting breakdown in the Beeb. It was Old. White. Men. who put Trump in. Well fancy that.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:47 AM

Maybe Stu was not too harsh over on another thread? :-(

(Steve knows which one


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:06 AM

There will be hundreds of comments that will try to mediate, justify and find redeeming criteria.

There are no redeeming values to be had, save one.

There really is a shadow government that can turn off nuclear orders by the President.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:08 AM

Big night for racism, climate change denial and unfettered capitalism. Looking down the road, how are decent people going to explain their support for this jackass to their children 20 years from now.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:10 AM

" save one."
Two - it'll keep our Akenaton and his trio of followers smiling for weeks to come.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:22 AM

"The people have spoken. The bastards."

Best hope is that he's such an instinctive liar that he won't follow through on most of the things he's promised.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: cetmst
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:30 AM

It is a standing tradition?/joke? that campaign promises are forgotten after an election. We can only hope that this pattern continues,


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:37 AM

"The people have spoken. The bastards."

A similar remark was made in the recent comedy series The Windsors, when Kate said to William "The people have voted to retain the monarchy, the twats..."

(As it was done in a posh accent, it sounded more like "twets.")


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: banjoman
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:46 AM

Is this the same Trump who wrestled Vince McMahan in WWE and shaved Vince's head? If so is this the sort of tactic to now be employed against people he dosn.t like?
God help us all. Perhaps he wont last four years


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:49 AM

It could have been worse! :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:25 AM

Of course, if he doesn't restore the rust belt industries with full payrolls there are going to be an awful lot of blue collar ex-workers who are going to be awfully pissed-off. One big problem is that robots would be doing most of those jobs even if the factories came back.

Very bad news for the planet anyway, with fossil fuel use going through the roof.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:30 AM

Maybe this might lighten the mood. Donuel linked to it on another thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:33 AM

Well he can shun climate change initiatives but I doubt that he can turn things around in a mere four years so that fossil fuel use goes through the roof. Let's hope it doesn't turn into eight...

The Democrats had better start finding some decent candidates to choose from fast. At least we know that Hillary won't be one of them as she'll be in jail.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:37 AM

"It could have been worse!"
Yup - it could have been you
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:47 AM

After the Brexit referendum debacle, the UK was the laughing-stock of the world. The Yanks just took our title away from us.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:48 AM

Trump is a weirdo but no Adolf Hitler because he doesn't like war. And he is not the kind of person who could really change something.

Let's see what he'll do after he gets in office. I hope he will be a good president and it's still possible.

People should immigrate legally. No?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:50 AM

You know all those things that the liberals here posted after the 2008 election, when the Democrats won the Presidency, the Senate, and the House?

Consider that I am posting them all to you now.





"You'll have to pass the legislation in order to find out what is in it."


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:55 AM

I've seen quite a few Trump supporters feeling lucky that it was Hillary who was chosen by the Democrats, because it's clear to them that Donald Trump has no chance to win against Bernie Sanders.

The Democrats asked for trouble and troubles find them.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Mrrzy
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:16 AM

I am more embarrassed than I was by Bush' "win".


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:27 AM

At least Bush was pretty lazy. Trump appears horribly energetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:28 AM

And not in a nice way...


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:31 AM

Citizenship and Immigration Canada's website crashed last night.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: olddude
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:56 AM

Good example of how bigotry and racism is alive and well in America. The whole country drank the coolaid.. Ugh


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Lanfranc
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:01 AM

I will try not to indulge too much in schadenfreude, but I am amused to read how little self-styled Democratic Party supporters believe in democracy.

It gets lonely here unless one toes the prevailing arrogant, intolerant line, so back to the music again for me. Akhnaton must be a glutton for punishment, but "sticks and stones may break my bones..."

Alan


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:46 AM

Trump is... no Adolf Hitler

No, but a good number of his followers are. Its 1933 in AmeriKKKa.

if he doesn't restore the rust belt industries with full payrolls there are going to be an awful lot of blue collar ex-workers who are going to be awfully pissed-off.

That's WHEN he doesn't Kevin - he can't restore them. And the pissed-of morons will blame anyone but Trump.

Alan, it appears that Clinton won the popular vote - if you want to discuss "democracy".

Looks like Mencken was right on the money (but I suspect he wouldnt be at all happy about it) -

"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

― H.L. Mencken


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 10:05 AM

Disagreeing with an election result doesn't mean disagreeing with democracy, Lanfranc. In fact it's an essential principle of democracy that people ought to be free to do so.
.......
Stuff like "pissed-off morons" is the kind of talk that should be left to the nastier type of Trump supporter to use.

Aside from the fact that "moron" ought to be a term given the same treatment as 'nigger", it's arrogant and fails to recognise the real desperation that pushed a lot of ordinary decent people to vote for Trump. It's pretty well accepted that if Sanders had been standing quite a few of them would have much preferred to go for him.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM

It's pretty well accepted that if Sanders had been standing quite a few of them would have much preferred to go for him.

You've just made my point for me, Kevin. Picking Trump because they couldn't pick Sanders is a perfect example of moronism.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 10:41 AM

Mr. Sanders might have foreseen this outcome when he made the decision to publicly endorse HRC, someone who is "not qualified for president". I must admit that I felt sick when a lot of former Sanders supporters eventually turn out to think that "Hillary Clinton is the best candidate ever".

I still hold the view that Trump has no chance if Bernie were the one nominated.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 10:43 AM

I still hold the view that Trump has[sic] no chance if Bernie were the one nominated.

And you're 100% wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/word-bernie-voters-dontblamemeivotedforbernie-161109100731420.html

"Donald Trump's victory in the US presidential election came as a shock to many Democrats, some Republicans and generally a whole lot of people around the world, but not to the supporters of the Vermont senator who lost the Democratic nomination to Hillary Clinton in June.

The campaign of Sanders repeatedly argued that Clinton was not fit to be a presidential candidate due to her track record of political scandals, as well as her Wall Street and corporate ties."


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: meself
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM

Is it too soon to start marketing the "Don't blame me; I didn't vote for that jackass" tee-shirts?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:06 AM

Picking HRC over Bernie Sanders is a perfect example of moronism too.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:25 AM

Picking HRC over Bernie Sanders is a perfect example of moronism too.

Pssst: End of the day, Bernie wasn't running. And he had endorsed Clinton.

Or are you calling Bernie a moron, too?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:28 AM

Beardie quoting Al Jazeera. It truly IS the end of the world. Next thing Bubo will join HAMAS.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Mooh
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM

Roughly half of the USA chose a narcissistic, sexist, racist, misogynist, lying abuser with delusions of grandeur and a persecution complex. So what if he wasn't of the political establishment? If one was choosing deliberately from those outside of the political establishment, one could easily find better than Trump.

So, if the president elect is a reflection of the electorate, the ugly American majority just got elected.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:05 PM

To clarify a Steve remark "it is old white men who voted for..."

It was white men and women who lost their homes through Wall Street fraud, it was all men men and women who lost their jobs from Bill Clinton's NAFTA. When Bill went to the right the die was cast for this future. We all feel that what is expedient for a Clinton to succeed is not what is always good for America.

Trump's wisdom was basically seeing the economic destruction of uneducated Americans and their seething historic racism exacerbated by a black President, despite the fact that Obama was the saving grace for an auto industry that would have totally disappeared without Barak.

The KKK and Nazis endorsed trump. In the US only 4 tenths of 1% identify as Nazis and Klan Groups are intermixed with gun militias.
They will enter society with a bit more legitimacy but the USA as a whole will strive to be a free democracy. Trump hate is not all of who we are, it is what we have lost in jobs and homes, wars and fortune to the very rich.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:16 PM

Life is full of cruel ironies. Did you know the official hymn of the KKK is Amazing Grace?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:17 PM

Being on the West end of the country I had dinner at a Chinese buffet underneath a flat screen TV with the returns coming in. I began to feel concern when Florida was going Trump but the commentators went on and on about waiting for the returns from Broward County. Then North Carolina and Virginia weren't going HRC.

It was a plumb astonishing show of things going 'wrong' by a little bit but everywhere.

The USA has 'BREXITed' in a big way.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:36 PM

GregtrF,

Beardie quoting Al Jazeera."

As I have stated, I try to look at all sides for information, not just the narrow-mined sources that YOU seem to use.



MG,

". Calling them dumbfickistan,.racist twats and.deplorables helped him win. "

Probably helped some- You can give some credit to individuals like GregtrF: If someone of his ilk supports something, one MUST have serious reservations about it.

Certainly made me go out and vote, and make sure all my friends did.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 12:39 PM

The sun will come up tomorrow at the speed of light, massive solar flares move much slower and will arrive later.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: keberoxu
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:03 PM

And talking of show,
Where is Jerry Springer when you miss him?
"Take good care of yourselves and each other...."


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:44 PM

The view of a liberal Muslim:

"In our sanctimony, our outrage, our righteousness, we overlook the way in which we appear to the other. The fact is that populism is not only rising on the right.

The hard left, too, is angry, scared and increasingly vitriolic. Many on the left are displaying the very traits they disparage the right for exhibiting. Fear is well and truly on the march.

Yes, we are scared. But they – Trump voters – are scared, too. Blaming and shaming them will only scare them more. And people do not go on to do good things when they are scared. The 1930s stand as a vivid testament to this truth.

We liberals must grieve this election loss, yes. We must mourn, then accept, and reflect on the outcome. But, most of all, we must then act to dissipate this fear among Trump supporters themselves. And that cannot happen, will not happen, if we are scared ourselves. Shouting, insulting and finger-pointing at a moment like this rarely changes opinions, but neither does pretending there is no problem."

Maajid Nawaz


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 01:49 PM

Waffle.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 02:53 PM

Calling them dumbfickistan,racist twats and deplorables helped him win.

Yup- because they were in fact, and are in fact, dumbfucks, racist twats and deplorables (I hope you recognize yourself, Beardie) they took offense.

Don't make 'em any less dumbfucks, racist twats, white supremecists, ignorant morons and deplorables.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:29 PM

And this from the mudcat poster who looked at "Black, and a Democrat", and claimed he read it as "Dumb Ni**er"


AND lied about who had even posted the statement.


But that seems to be accepted here, as long as the liar is a good Liberal.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 03:35 PM

Do note that 59,626,052 Americans are NOT dumbfucks. It was asked elsewhere if Ms. Clinton had "too much baggage". Perhaps... but also too much mud thrown at her as lies & innuendo.

When anyone win an election despite being an obvious racist and sexual predator, there's a lot to analyze......

I'm too tired and bewildered right now.... but I'll bet that a few million smug folks will be laughing out of the other side of their mouths in a few years.... after the Republicans have REALLY rigged future elections with more Gerrymandering, far-right judges, voter restrictions and deportations.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 04:00 PM

I tend not to agree with bruce on much, but I'd agree with him about the value of Greg's attitude.

As for the quote bodad gave, that strikes me as right on.

Someone who seems to have read this right all along is Michael Moore, who predicted Trump's victory, and understood where it would come from, while doing his best to prevent it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 04:50 PM

Aw the shame....did the big bad man spoil the party?

"An' all the Federales say, we could've won it any day,
We only let it slip away outa kindness ah suppose"(

To the "liberal political elite")
Wake up and smell the coffee, people across the world are sick of two faced, hypocritical, would be liberal politicians.
They want real representation to give them jobs, food on the table and self worth, not to be fobbed of by non issues.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:23 PM

I tend not to agree with bruce on much, but I'd agree with him about the value of Greg's attitude.

Well then Kevin, as much as it pains me to do so, as over the years you've posted a great deal of intelligent common sense which I wholehearedly agreed with and assumed you to be a decent sort, I will now have to rank you with the dumbfucks, racist twats, white supremecists, ignorant morons and deplorables who are happy to see this piece of semi-human garbage in the White House.

Pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:36 PM

Greg, you are being extremely undemocratic, and insulting to a member who keeps his insults very well hidden :0)


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 05:42 PM

But they – Trump voters – are scared, too.

Asolutly.

Sacred white supremecists.

Sarged bigots.

Sacred neo-Nazis.

Sacred racists.

Sarced uneducated jackasses.

Sacred Islamophobes

Sacred anti-government militia members a la Bundy.

Sacred morons.

Of course, it is their constitutional right- which I will defend unto death- to embrace, support and vote for this piece of human garbage as long as they don't maintain, claim or pretend that he is NOT a piece of human garbage.

At the very least they should be homest about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:05 PM

One point that doesn't seem to have been given much attention is that in fact more people voted for Clinton than voted for Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:09 PM

Most sentient beings have given it plenty of attention, Kevin, if you bother to check.

Stick with those sacred racists & white supremecists.

Embrace the piece of crap that will adorn the White House.


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Subject: Lyr Add: Lament for a Lost Election (Tom Paxton)
From: Jason Xion Wang
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:10 PM

Lament for a Lost Election

Shit!


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 06:42 PM

Way back in 1980, Not The Nine O'clock News did a great song lamenting the election of Reagan. I don't know how to do the link, but you'll get it if you google "Not The Nine O'clock News I believe." What goes around comes around!


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:18 PM

I'm happy being more or less of the same mind as Michael Moore on these matters, Greg.
...........................

I seem to have come across a fair number of comments, both in the media and in this thread, on the lines not so much of "why did people vote for Trump?" as "why did the American people vote for Trump?". Or even suggesting it's undemocratic to object because "the people voted for Trump". That's why it is relevant to remind ourselves of the fact more of them actually voted for Clinton.

Even if it offends Greg's sentient beings to be gratuitously reminded of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: bobad
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:43 PM

While profoundly mourning the election of Donald Trump, I can see that we as progressives have failed to listen to our brethren on "the other side." Worthy people who have been so desperate for a change in their lives they were willing to vote for a man whom many of them know is a scoundrel in every possible sense of the word. I need not enumerate his defects.

Typical of the "elite," I did not spend time talking to, or simply being with, Trump supporters. I have only grumbled from the sidelines about what a nightmare It would be for us all if "they" prevailed. They did, and for many of us, it is.

I have no solutions to watching pieces fall into place in a shockingly new dark puzzle.

For now, I will expand my vegetable garden. I will get my hands in the earth, pray, watch things grow, and honor Michelle Obama, as her garden, like many beautiful things we have created, may not survive the process of "making our country great again."

On the other hand, it's worth reaching out to the new administration to suggest keeping a magnificent, bi-partisan cornucopia of fruits and vegetables flourishing as a gesture of mending a fraction of the damage done to each other by not listening.

-Joan Baez


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 07:58 PM

More waffle. You're getting good at waffle.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:02 PM

"The sun will come up tomorrow at the speed of light"

No, the sun will come up tomorrow at the speed of the Earth's rotation.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 08:08 PM

Typical of the "elite," I did not spend time talking to, or simply being with, Trump supporters.

Ah, but then you see, Boo, there IS no talking with "Trump supporters" since they have no connection with fact or reality- attempting to engage them in rationl discourse is an exercise in futility.

For example, the woman interviewed on NPR who couldn't vote for Clinton because she was untruthful - when each and every time Trumpshit opened his mouth for the past twelve months all he produced were lies upon lies.

So by all means embrace this piece of garbage that will pollute the White House.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:08 PM

there IS no talking with "Trump supporters" since they have no connection with fact or reality- attempting to engage them in rationl discourse is an exercise in futility.

I somehow get the impression from the way you express yourself Greg that you are unlikely to have actually talked to any Trump supporters. If I'm wrong and your aversion arises from being surrounded by them, I apologise.

(Nor have I, but living in England the occasion has not arisen. Even among those who voted for Brexit there appear to be remarkably few who view the man with anything but amused contempt.)


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:24 PM

Greg your anger should be expressed
HOWEVER

You could easily portray an Anti Colbert. You are not helping, but it is possible you don't want to help.

Steve, I am not stupid. I was hoping that more people would take a second look at their own egos and claims of superiority.
Although they do not need it I come o the defense of bobad and McGrath.
Steve you are a nice enough bloke but unlike McGrath and bobad I have seen evidence you are not as superior as you think you are. Use your wisdom and strategy man. Drop the waffle remarks, I do not think it applies the way you think it does .

In the US a civil war within each party will sort out priorities and strategies to better reflect and provide our peoples needs. Both parties have been divided and conqurered by the Goldman Sachs of America.

Soon the disenfranchised Trump supporters will have no one to blame but themselves when the promised jobs are already irretrievably taken by automated robots.

Steve one of your strength might be knowing the many historic examples of what 'seemed like a good idea at the time'.





TODAY WAS THE ANNIVERSITY OF CRYSTALNACHT


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 09:51 PM

Good piece by Gary Young in the Guardian:

Electing Donald Trump


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:24 AM

So, my wife and I both tend toward annoying optimism. We were both disappointed by the election, but then we thought about it. We decided this might be a necessary two-year "correction."

The political situation in the U.S. has been getting worse and worse, to the point where it is now dominated by anger and bigotry and hatefulness. First it was the talk show hosts, then Murdoch and FoxNews, then Sarah Palin, and then the Tea Party. And then it all coalesced into what Donald Trump sees as his "movement." These people have brought government to a standstill, and they have destroyed all sense of honor and all possibility of compromise and cooperation. Heck, even some liberals have sold out to the politics of anger and hatred (even some Mudcatters who have posted in this thread are guilty of selling out to anger and hatred).

Barack Obama was an excellent President, the best in my lifetime. But for much of his term in office, he was blocked in every direction by these hateful people.

So, now the hateful people have what they want - control of the White House, Congress, and quite likely a fifth conservative vote on the Supreme Court. And they have two years to prove that they are right. If they fail, they will lose control of both houses of Congress, and Donald Trump will be an impotent lame duck for the last two years of his single term. And if they fail, wiser forces will take over the Republican Party in two years, and we can go back on balance.

But if we want this "correction" to happen, we of the center and left must maintain our integrity and ideals, and not succumb to the temptation to join the forces of anger and hatred. We need to continue to take the high road.

And then in two short years, if we keep our cool, things will be a whole lot better. And Donald Trump will be a one-term President.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:26 AM

There is one element that I have not heard discussed: the fact that Trump is not a true conservative. I am of the opinion that there is no 'there' there. He seems as hollow as a balloon to me.

Thus, I think it is possible that - depending upon who gets to him last and loudest - he will not move to overturn Roe vs. Wade, will not act to repeal 'Obamacare', will not hinder the installation of safeguards on the Second Amendment...

He may well bluster and bloviate, especially at first, but if we can hold him off for a few months he may lose the momentum.

Further, I will go on record to predict: Donald Trump will not serve out his term. Not even close to it. Judging by the character he has demonstrated to this point, he will decide that he "doesn't need this job, that he has plenty of money, that he is sacrificing millions - BILLIONS - of dollars to do this job and this is the thanks he gets, etc, etc.

We can only hope, if that day comes, that he has not caused too much carnage in the world.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:27 AM

I hope and pray you're right, Ebbie.

I suspect his megalomania will cause him to explode when he finds he's just a figurehead, and that Men in Suits in the shadows are the ones who actually run the show.

Roll on the day.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:51 AM

I remember when JFK was interviewed not long after he took office. He was asked what was his biggest surprise so far? He said, How little REAL power the President has.

You can bet that Twump, the Twitter, will have a rude awakening.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 06:39 AM

WORTH READING
Full text put up on 'Apology' thread
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 07:17 AM

Donuel, I do not attack McGrath, so I don't know what that was supposed to be about. Bobad posted some flowery mush from Joan Baez and, yesterday, some nonsense from a "liberal Muslim" in a right-wing Israeli newspaper (in another thread that is doubtless being studiously avoided by a few people reading this). My view is that both pieces were just waffle, so I said so. On this occasion I was not attacking Bobad except to observe that he's getting rather good at digging up waffle. You've seen a lot worse here. If you really want to leap to his defence, your privilege of course, then I suggest you read some of the attacks he routinely makes on me, Jim and others first so that you can get a better perspective. Now, back to reality if you don't mind...


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 08:11 AM

If I'm wrong and your aversion arises from being surrounded by them

I'm up to my neck in 'em, Kevin, and I'm sick of 'em. Expect I'll become even MORE sick of 'em as things play out.

Apology unnecessary, but appreciated.

Even among those who voted for Brexit there appear to be remarkably few who view the man with anything but amused contempt.

The last thing that POS is, is "amusing"; as will become more apparent as time passes, even on your side of the pond. Wait for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 09:44 AM

are they really attacks or a respectful response?

I define waffle as a partial flip flop.

when we take ourselves out of the equation and our mindset has nothing to do with a defense against personal attack, the ideas burn more brightly, but I am sure you know this. Nuance has power.

end of inconsequential personal observation.









If you saw Hillary's concession speech perhaps you heard from the back of the room the chants from Wall Street employees 'Lock her up lock her up.'.

The contagious arrogant hateful characteristic of the Trump campaign lends itself to the disintegration of civility and civilization. A concession speech is not sacrosanct but is a respected tradition.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 09:51 AM

... wiser forces will take over the Republican Party in two years, and we can go back on balance...And then in two short years, if we keep our cool, things will be a whole lot better.


Pollyanna

noun Pol·ly·an·na \ˌpä-lē-ˈa-nə\

Simple Definition of Pollyanna
: someone who thinks good things will always happen and finds something good in everything

Source: Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 10:02 AM

Declared 100 day intentions by Trump
Deport illegal Mexicans and build the wall
Abolish Obama's health reforms.
Renege on any previous agreements on climate change
Little wonder that decent Americans right across the country - New York, Washington - San Francisco - have taken to the streets claiming he does not speak for them them
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 10:15 AM

Perhaps you noticed but since the primaries I have always contended that Trump could win while I had to reluctantly pull for a status quo Hillary. Podesta was insightful about her as his emails show. Still he was an idiot for getting fished which led to his hack.

I wrote about my hopes nd fears. Monday I said we will have chaos and recriminations foe some time. We are in a sensitive moment that can turn sour with guns. UK people do not understand this so remember who they are and be lenient with your judgement.

I actually saw the first Trump wall go up. It was 8 feet tall concrete blocks around Trump Tower on 5th Avenue assembled by NYPD.

It was almost poetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 11:21 AM

Pollyanna, Greg? Me?

Perhaps so, but I believe it is to our benefit to continue to act honorably and rationally. The Republicans have a "Perfect Storm" of a chance to prove themselves. I predict that if we do not do anything stupid, they will fall flat on their faces in a very short time. And so, the political situation will correct itself, more or less.

I think that this is a wiser solution than yours. Yours appears to mostly consist of using the word "fuck" a lot.

Joe


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 11:37 AM

Yours appears to mostly consist of using the word "fuck" a lot.

OK then, Joe - so as not to disappoint: Fuck off, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 11:49 AM

For some reason, this popped into my head this morning..
Sir Walter Raleigh circa 1592

    The Lie

    Go, Soul, the body's guest,
    Upon a thankless errand;
    Fear not to touch the best;
    The truth shall be thy warrant:
    Go, since I needs must die,
    And give the world the lie.

    Say to the court, it glows
    And shines like rotten wood;
    Say to the church, it shows
    What's good, and doth no good:
    If church and court reply,
    Then give them both the lie.

    Tell potentates, they live
    Acting by others' action;
    Not loved unless they give,
    Not strong but by a faction.
    If potentates reply,
    Give potentates the lie.

    Tell men of high condition,
    That manage the estate,
    Their purpose is ambition,
    Their practice only hate:
    And if they once reply,
    Then give them all the lie.

    Tell them that brave it most,
    They beg for more by spending,
    Who, in their greatest cost,
    Seek nothing but commending.
    And if they make reply,
    Then give them all the lie.

    Tell zeal it wants devotion;
    Tell love it is but lust;
    Tell time it metes but motion;
    Tell flesh it is but dust:
    And wish them not reply,
    For thou must give the lie.

    Tell age it daily wasteth;
    Tell honour how it alters;
    Tell beauty how she blasteth;
    Tell favour how it falters:
    And as they shall reply,
    Give every one the lie.

    Tell wit how much it wrangles
    In tickle points of niceness;
    Tell wisdom she entangles
    Herself in overwiseness:
    And when they do reply,
    Straight give them both the lie.

    Tell physic of her boldness;
    Tell skill it is prevention;
    Tell charity of coldness;
    Tell law it is contention:
    And as they do reply,
    So give them still the lie.

    Tell fortune of her blindness;
    Tell nature of decay;
    Tell friendship of unkindness;
    Tell justice of delay:
    And if they will reply,
    Then give them all the lie.

    Tell arts they have no soundness,
    But vary by esteeming;
    Tell schools they want profoundness,
    And stand too much on seeming:
    If arts and schools reply,
    Give arts and schools the lie.

    Tell faith it's fled the city;
    Tell how the country erreth;
    Tell manhood shakes off pity
    And virtue least preferreth:
    And if they do reply,
    Spare not to give the lie.

    So when thou hast, as I
    Commanded thee, done blabbing--
    Although to give the lie
    Deserves no less than stabbing--
    Stab at thee he that will,
    No stab the soul can kill.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 11:58 AM

Joe Offer,

IF the Trump administration, in the two years until the next election, can provide more to the Black community than the the Obama administration did in its first two years ( when each had control of the WH, Senate, and House) it is possible that we will not have a Democratic administration for quite a few years. The Democrats have taken the Black community for granted, and , unlike the unions, has never paid them back for their support.

This is the Republican's chance to change the entire electorial map, if Trump can keep focused.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:10 PM

With Trump victory, world dodges Clinton's foreign policy bullet

"Her liberal-hawkish — although many characterize it as neo-conservative — approach to international relations mixed with the desire to satisfy the myriad of political donors would only have immersed the United States in unnecessary conflicts and protracted wars.

In the words of former U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell, "Everything HRC (Hillary Rodham Clinton) touches she kind of screws up with hubris." America and the world have dodged a bullet, quite literally."


https://origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305311-with-trump-victory-the-world-dodges-clintons-fore


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:15 PM

Dems should've learned from primary that voters wanted change


"Secondly, the Democratic Party has been taught a cold, harsh lesson.

In the post-mortem of this election, after they get past their "I can't believe I live in a country that elected this man" self-pity, if Democrats are honest with themselves — I mean really, truly honest with themselves — they will realize that they essentially coronated an incredibly flawed candidate.

While Hillary Clinton, Democrats and most of the media zeroed in on the often abhorrent rhetoric of Donald Trump, all of these folks failed to realize that Clinton's problems — email servers, the Clinton Foundation, Benghazi and yes, her husband — had the same resonant effect on blue-collar, rural voters as Trump's bombastic language had on his critics.

Clinton's "transgressions" over 30 years of public service had calcified on the Rust Belt, rural and heartland areas of America much more than Democrats had predicted.

And yet, all the signs were there during the Democratic primary."

http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/305255-the-signs-were-there-during-primary-but-dems-ignored


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:22 PM

Bill,
Commanding the soul to spin the truth despite our protestations, anger, disappointments, insights beyond the hype, betrayal and the cruel ironies in life is a very bold and honorable thing to do.
It allows one to pass on the good things in life afresh.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:25 PM

beyond corruption


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:26 PM

and lies.


how wise


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:34 PM

With Trump victory, world dodges Clinton's foreign policy bullet
AND THE PRIZE FOR DOING SO WAS...
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:35 PM

That's true, Bruce. This is a big chance for the Republicans. If they succeed, then we all will be better off. I contend that President Obama would have accomplished much more, if only the Republicans had not worked so hard to undermine his every action. I think that it is best for the Democrats to avoid trying to sabotage Republican efforts. I predict that their efforts will fail.

There are certain Trump proposals that we can not allow, because they our violations of basic human justice. we cannot allow the mass deportation of 11 million immigrants, especially those who have children who have never lived outside the United States. Those who have lived in the United States for over a decade, should certainly not be ripped out of their homes and sent to a country they no longer know.

And since we have participated in the war in Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan, we can't turn a blind eye to refugees from those wars.

As for Obamacare, I think most people believe that it needs to be fixed. The Democrats work too hard to satisfy the Republicans when they designed Obamacare, and that caused too many unworkable aspects. Now it is the responsibility of the Republicans to fix it. They cannot get away with simply repeating a program that gives health insurance to 20 million Americans. It's time for the Republicans to put up or shut up now.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM

BB: "This is the Republican's chance to change the entire electorial map, if Trump can keep focused"

"KEEP focused'? When has Trump shown any sign of focus? The man appears to have no sense of self control. Other than one-line slogans, he isn't even able to stay on a subject for five minutes. Or THREE minutes.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:42 PM

So the Republicruds, after their shenanigans of the last quarter century years and their unwavering attachment to trickle-down BS which DOES NOT WORK, led by this billionaire piece of human garbage will be re-born-again, will have a new birth of freedom, and that government for the rich, by the rich and of the rich will not perish from the earth?


No doubt you're right, Joe.

Stick your head in the sand, keep a low profile, and evil will disappear on its own accord, as if by magic.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 01:11 PM

Liberals think history is on their side. They couldn't be more wrong.

"The reason why it's so important for liberals to rouse themselves from their dogmatic slumber is that it is their historical dogmatism, their certainty in progressive triumph, that inspires them to insult, denigrate, mock, and denounce millions of Americans who stand on other sides of our nation's political and cultural divides. Why bother to treat them with a base level of respect if you suspect that they and their onerous, ignorant prejudices are bound to die out any day now? We are the future waiting to be ever-more-fully born; they are the dead weight of a rapidly dying past.

But the past isn't merely dying out in the blind unfolding of purposeless time, these liberals believe. The dying out is in some sense inevitable. Those old habits and beliefs, no less than those who stubbornly hold onto them, actually deserve their pitch-dark fate, their humiliation, their ridicule, and maybe even a swift kick in the teeth. Because that's what happens when the arc of history bends toward justice. The narrow-minded bigots suffer and expire so the righteous citizens of the world can flourish and thrive.

Imagine for a moment what your life might be like as a unemployed middle-aged white woman in a small town in a rural part of a Midwestern state. Your quality of life has been declining since the biggest employers in town closed up shop after the passage of NAFTA. Things got far worse after the financial crash hit in 2008. You voted for Obama and hoped he might change things, making your life marginally better. But instead, things have only gotten worse. Job losses have continued. Family and friends are unemployed, living off of disability checks, purchasing groceries with food stamps. Some are addicted to pain killers, with an old high school friend recently dying in an overdose. Bills, including for health insurance under ObamaCare, keep going up and up.

Meanwhile, Obama has spent his second term enforcing environmental regulations that could close the coal mine in the next county over, working on another trade deal that you fear will only decimate your town even more than it already has been, and circumventing Congress to admit more low-skilled labor into the workforce, where these immigrants will compete with long-time residents for the very few entry-level jobs that can still be found in your corner of the state. And now Hillary Clinton has doubled down on Obama's immigration goals and offered very little by way of policy that gives you hope for improvement.

Instead, Clinton keeps ranting about the racism, sexism, and bigotry of Donald Trump — and now she's been caught on tape calling his supporters "deplorable." You'd been tempted by parts of his message, like when he promised at the Republican convention to be your voice, bring back good jobs, and improve your lot in life. But you didn't seriously consider supporting him until Hillary Clinton talked that way about your Trump-supporting parents, brother, and neighbors. They'd always said that things would never get better as long as the elitists out East spit in your faces. Maybe they were right after all."


http://theweek.com/articles/660989/liberals-think-history-side-couldnt-more-wrong


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 01:16 PM

How Hillary Clinton lost to Donald Trump

"As for the voters, Clinton won big in urban areas, where college-educated liberals are clustered, as well as minority voters fearful of the bigotry a Trump presidency may unleash. But she also lost big in the poorer rural areas of middle America, conservative heartlands where God, guns, and the constitution reign supreme.

Trump tapped into the anger in these places, many in the grip of industrial decline, where jobs are often scarce, and they turned out to vote like never before, as a bloc in a way similar to the pattern of voting by minority groups.

And for many of these voters, Clinton was a symbol of the out-of-touch, nepotistic establishment that had turned its back on them. In voting for Trump, they were turning their backs in response."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/how-hillary-clinton-lost-donald-trump-1590613?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=rss&utm


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 01:32 PM

Oh, Greg, I would not stick my head in the sand. I would stay calm, act logically and strategically, and refrain from using the word you love so well. Vulgar language has its place, if used sparingly and intelligently.
Joe


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 01:51 PM

"Why bother to treat 'liberals' with respect ?"

If these are indeed your words and not another cut nd paste, you get what you give.


In an uncanny display, Trump's hair blended in perfectly with the pale and bold vertical stripes of the wall paper in the ova office. With a chair on each side of the fireplace Barak would look to his right to see President elect Trump and Donald had to look to his left to be attentive to President Obama. The 10 minute meeting went for 90.

A slightly bowed posture by Trump may have in reverence to the office or to not appear as though he was looming over Obama's height.

Domestic policy exposed more differences "difficulties' than foreign policy. The goal of the conversation was to wisely transfer power in the most peaceful and gracious manner.

Obama would gesticulated with a rolling motion of his right arm while Trump usually held his hands like a spider on a mirror and kept tapping his index fingers. No staff was present except for Secret Service and the white House photographer.

They had never met but will meet again for consul.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 01:58 PM

opps, the wall paper is bright yellow.

We should all be Joe right now, after the grieving ends.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:02 PM

Joe, instead of being coy with me, why not spend some of your time responding to the BS that Bullsquad Bruce pollutes this forum with? Seems that would be in line with your professed outlook.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:11 PM

As long as GregtrF represents himself as the "Liberal Posterboy" and continues to make unsupported statements and attack others rather than provide a reason to think he has a point, I know that the Dems will have no future in running this country.


It is attitudes like his that GAVE this election to Trump.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:16 PM

Donuel,

Please read this carefully:

The reason why it's so important for liberals to rouse themselves from their dogmatic slumber is that it is their historical dogmatism, their certainty in progressive triumph, that inspires them to insult, denigrate, mock, and denounce millions of Americans who stand on other sides of our nation's political and cultural divides. Why bother to treat them with a base level of respect if you suspect that they and their onerous, ignorant prejudices are bound to die out any day now? We are the future waiting to be ever-more-fully born; they are the dead weight of a rapidly dying past."




The ones who stand on the other side are the conservatives: This is telling Liberals that it is the LIBERALS "historical dogmatism, their certainty in progressive triumph, that inspires them to insult, denigrate, mock, and denounce millions of Americans who stand on other sides of our nation's political and cultural divides."

" Why bother to treat them (CONSERVATIVES) with a base level of respect if you suspect that they and their onerous, ignorant prejudices are bound to die out any day now?"


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:21 PM

BEARDIE:

Wake up.

The very LAST think your hero Trump, 24 karat piece of human garbage that he is, is a "conservative" by any (even tortured)definition of the term.

Of course, since you inhabit a fact-free environment.....


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:25 PM

As for what Pres. Trump plans to do, he has stated a plan:


http://www.npr.org/2016/11/09/501451368/here-is-what-donald-trump-wants-to-do-in-his-first-100-days

"What follows is my 100-day action plan to Make America Great Again. It is a contract between myself and the American voter — and begins with restoring honesty, accountability and change to Washington

Therefore, on the first day of my term of office, my administration will immediately pursue the following six measures to clean up the corruption and special interest collusion in Washington, DC:

* FIRST, propose a Constitutional Amendment to impose term limits on all members of Congress;

* SECOND, a hiring freeze on all federal employees to reduce federal workforce through attrition (exempting military, public safety, and public health);

* THIRD, a requirement that for every new federal regulation, two existing regulations must be eliminated;

* FOURTH, a 5 year-ban on White House and Congressional officials becoming lobbyists after they leave government service;

* FIFTH, a lifetime ban on White House officials lobbying on behalf of a foreign government;

* SIXTH, a complete ban on foreign lobbyists raising money for American elections."

(more on the posted site)


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:27 PM

to insult, denigrate, mock, and denounce millions of Americans who stand on other sides of our nation's political and cultural divides.


Pegs you right on the button, GregtrF.

So how many here will agree with you and show which is truly the party of HATE?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:36 PM

to insult, denigrate, mock, and denounce millions of Americans

So Beardie, to you, white supremecists, neo-Nazis, bigots, racists, ignoramuses, the undeucated/undereducated, the completely ignorant, the fact-averse, delusional idiots who believe that blogs and Twitter are reliable sources of factual information should NOT be called out for what they are is somehow reprenensible and counter-productive??

Do tell. (or Sieg Heil!)


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: MikeL2
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 02:49 PM

I feel sorry for all Americans who take life seriously.

It was not easy to vote correctly when the choice was either tooth ache or ear ache.

Come to think of it it's bit like us deciding on Cameron or Ed Millibrand. !!

There could be many UK politicians worried by the result yesterday.

Be afraid....

MikeL2


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 03:11 PM

GregtrF,

And the Communist Party endorsed Hillary- so, I should state that you Liberals are ALL mass murderers like Stalin?

BTW,STILL waiting on your answer to:

GregtrF,

So, HOW MANY YEARS were you handling classified information?

What positions of responsibility dealing with classified information have you ever been in?
What training in dealing with classified information have you ever had?



Or do you admit to being one of the undeucated/undereducated, the completely ignorant, the fact-averse, delusional idiots who believe that blogs and Twitter are reliable sources of factual information?

SHOW US YOUR QUALIFICATIONS on classified materials!


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 03:17 PM

GregtrF,

You made statements about my posts without any factual basis for your conclusion. If you have no valid information, perhaps you need to stop attacking others who are making an effort to find out the facts.

You make other Liberals here look bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 03:18 PM

Good old BeardedBullshit!

No answers, so baffle 'em with inconsequetial and irrelevant bullshit.

Yoo-Hoo- Joe .....?


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 03:21 PM

I note you refrain from answering.


Shall I put you back into your "bucket of deplorables"?

Your call, Joe-

GregtrF is starting to make the rest of you look pretty bad.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 04:00 PM

Bruce I saw it the 1st time.

I know you are celebrating however I have asked you nicely to refrain from making fun of liberals until the grieving process ends.

Instead of getting all wet be an adult and stop participating in pissing contests. Any female could beat you at that anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 04:45 PM

Breaking News

Trump wants Steve Bannon, of Nazi fame, as chief of staff.

It is a position that can not be reviewed or contested.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 04:57 PM

I note you refrain from answering.

The only rational answer to one posting palpable bullshit is calling it bullshit, Beardie.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 05:07 PM

Trump wants Steve Bannon, of Nazi fame, as chief of staff.

USA! Sieg Heil! USA!! Seig Heil!!

Yup, relax Joe -it'll all take care of itself.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: bobad
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 07:04 PM

As has been widely noted on the internet, Trump four years ago questioned the legitimacy of the Electoral College system, which selects presidents based on the states they win rather than the total votes they receive. On Election Day 2012, when there was public speculation that Mitt Romney might win the popular vote but lose in the Electoral College to President Barack Obama, Trump went on a tweet storm, calling the election "a total sham and a travesty." He exclaimed, "We are not a democracy." He called for "revolution" against this "great and disgusting injustice" and slammed the "phoney electoral college." In April, Ben Carson also questioned the need for the Electoral College.

Mother Jones


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 07:31 PM

Well it's interesting that Clinton pipped Trump in terms of the overall vote, but the US is not quite a single amorphous entity but a federation of many smaller entities. If you want the people to feel that they are stakeholders in the democracy, you have to do slightly better than saying to them that they have one vote in a population of 300 million once every four years. On the surface, the electoral college system seems like a pretty good crack at fairness. But where, to me anyway, it breaks down is in the all-or-nothing lottery of the final allocation of representatives. If Florida has 29, and Trump squeaks in by a few tens of thousands of votes out of 20 million, then it seems to me that he should get 15 and Clinton 14. Etcetera, repeated across the nation. But you give him the whole lot. Why is that? Mind you, when you look at our system...


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 07:54 PM

Steve, our system has been broken since it was conceived in terms of the President race. It needs overhauled for sure but they just don't do anything about it


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 08:04 PM

Ben Carson? You mean Dr. Batshit Crazy??? Give us a break!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 08:21 PM

It will be a couple weeks before some of this is set in stone.

I heard on npr that democrats crossed over to Trump way more than republicans crossed to Clinton.

Mr. Red said "Trump is already impeached, in hair color".


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 08:24 PM

I stated months ago that Trump wants the position of president, not the job. He **IS** incompetent to deal with the fine points of the office, so he will delegate to people like *gasp* Steve Bannon, Kris Kobach of Kansas (who has been writing most of the anti-immigration legislation), his VP Pence *yuck*, Rudy Giuliani, disgraced Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich and other semi-'experienced' hatchet men to do the dirty work.(and then he can blame them if things go wrong).
Now Trump needs to negotiate the looming minefield of placing his interests in 500 companies in a "blind trust" .... one which is NOT run by his family! You can bet he will not like the idea of not knowing how his money is doing.... but there are laws that even he cannot avoid.
I can already envision him not even trying to run for a 2nd term.


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Subject: RE: BS: The election results show
From: Teribus
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 02:24 AM

"Now Trump needs to negotiate the looming minefield of placing his interests in 500 companies in a "blind trust" .... one which is NOT run by his family! You can bet he will not like the idea of not knowing how his money is doing.... but there are laws that even he cannot avoid.
I can already envision him not even trying to run for a 2nd term."


Very good point BillD - that aspect of things I'd completely forgotten about. IIRC didn't Chaney have to do that even before he accepted the nomination to run as VP? He also relocated back to Wyoming before the accepting the nomination so that it was possible for voters in Texas to vote for a Bush/Chaney ticket.


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