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Russian folksong - ANY information?

rich-joy 09 Nov 16 - 11:27 PM
Joe Offer 10 Nov 16 - 12:51 AM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Nov 16 - 03:52 PM
rich-joy 11 Nov 16 - 12:52 AM
GUEST,Guest John Bowden 11 Nov 16 - 06:58 AM
GUEST,Kenny B Sans Kuki 11 Nov 16 - 02:37 PM
GUEST 11 Nov 16 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,John Bowden 11 Nov 16 - 06:16 PM
GUEST,Kenny B Sans Kuki 12 Nov 16 - 04:57 AM
GUEST,John Bowden 12 Nov 16 - 09:24 AM
rich-joy 15 Nov 16 - 12:59 AM
rich-joy 15 Nov 16 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,John Bowden 15 Nov 16 - 08:39 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Nov 16 - 04:19 AM
GUEST,John Bowden 18 Nov 16 - 10:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 18 Nov 16 - 05:23 PM
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Subject: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Nov 16 - 11:27 PM

I am searching for ANY information about a song that may well be a traditional folk song. I don't know what area it comes from, only that it is hugely popular on YouTube with many singers and I have only been able to locate these clips by sheer luck, through discovering and using the title in Cyrillic :
Вьюн над водой
The Google Translator program comes up with those words meaning "Bindweed Above the Water" and is variously written as "Vyun Nud Vadoy / Vun Nud Vodoi" e.g.

Apparently it is a Russian wedding song and I think concerns the prospective groom waiting at her gate and being offered riches and property and a black stallion, by his intended's relatives – but he says No, he only wants and needs the girl. This correct answer then earns him his bride.

I am not sure of the significance or symbolism of the Bindweed, which features in the refrain, and can only hazard a guess that it forms the base of the floral wreaths commonly worn on the head on festive occasions?? (but the water significance??)

The song features in at least a couple of films, one set in "modern" and one set in "historical" times.

Can anyone help?!

I would also be most grateful for a set of meaningful, singable lyrics, written in the Latin alphabet,
(and of course a translation to English would be nice!)

Thanks in advance,

Cheers!
Rich-Joy (Down Under)


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 12:51 AM

Don't know anything about the song, but I like this performance:


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Nov 16 - 03:52 PM

I don't know if this might help. I found a site with a whole bunch of Russian songs for balaika.. it might be in there. Anyway, if you like Russian songs, it's a treasure.Balalaika instruction book


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: rich-joy
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 12:52 AM

No, not in the Balalaika book - but thanks McGrath.

An upbeat "modern" version of the song is by the girls (and guys) of the Slavic Ensemble, who look like they had some fun making the vidclip :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjuel5srJM8

There are squillions of versions to choose from on You Tube (but very varied, shall we say! :)

But it is SO popular, I can't believe I haven't been inundated with replies yet, LOL!

Cheers!
R-J


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,Guest John Bowden
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 06:58 AM

Hi R-J,

It's a difficult one, because Вьюн can have several meanings - one of which is a fish, a species of loach (misgurnus), which wouldn't make much sense here! According to a Russian website I found -but can't get a blue clicky to work for! - in the song, Вьюн is a version of венок (vyenok), which means a wreath. Apparently they were used as a means of predicting whether a girl would get married in the coming year or would have to wait - the wreath was floated down the river (as in the last video), and if it floated calmly in a straight line, the girl would soon be married, but if it hit turbulence and went round in circles the girl would have to wait!

I'll post a transliteration of the lyrics and a translation later on today - just dashing out now.

Cheers,
John


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,Kenny B Sans Kuki
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 02:37 PM

Russian Lyrics


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 06:14 PM

Hi R-J,

Here's a transliteration of the lyrics and a rough English translation (almost word for word, to show what the individual words mean) : as I said before, Вьюн (vyon) can mean many things: loach (fish), eel, and by extension a slippery person/character: it also means a fidget/fidgety person, and is a popular name for a dog!: and apparently it's also a dialect term for fog or mist - this is suggested by this video, which illustrates the story as it develops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCo3yjouhi8

Some commentators suggest, as I said earlier, that Вьюн can mean weeds/bindweed (as you suggested), and hence by extension is a variant of the word for a wreath or headdress made from the weeds - as in the video by the Slavic Ensemble. So you pays your money and you takes your choice!

Some versions (as in the video above) end with the groom accepting his bride, but others have him rejecting her too, and taking a staff and scrip (bag) because he is "betrothed to God" - presumably becoming a monk or a pilgrim/beggar. I've included all the verses, but you could miss out the last one if you want a happy ending!

Cheers,
John
Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting

Veevyelee yemoo, oi, Veevyelee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo voronovo konya.         They brought him a black horse   
- Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh       This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta batyushki movo         This is my father's.

Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting


Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo soondookoo, polnee dabra They brought him a chest full of treasure
- Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh       This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta dyevyera movo.         This is not mine, it's my brother-in-law's

Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting

Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veenyeslee yemoo svyet-Nastasyushkoo.    They brought him his darling Anastasia
- Eta vot moyo, oi, eto vot mayo,                This is mine, oh, this is mine,
Eta vot mayo, bogom suzhenoye                This is mine, betrothed by God


The alternative ending:

Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo svyet-Nastasyushkoo.    They brought him his darling Anastasia
Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh               This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta druga movo                   This is not mine, it's my friend's

Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo pasok ee soomoo            They brought him a staff and a scrip
- Eta vot moyo, oi, eto vot mayo,                This is mine, oh, this is mine,
Eta vot mayo, bogom suzhenoye                This is mine, betrothed by God


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,John Bowden
Date: 11 Nov 16 - 06:16 PM

PS The guest above was me!


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,Kenny B Sans Kuki
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 04:57 AM

Thanks John for the translation & phoenetics too
I will try that along with the melody


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,John Bowden
Date: 12 Nov 16 - 09:24 AM

OOPS!!

Sorry, I've made a couple of mistakes in the transliteration - that's what comes of typing 7 Cutting and pasting late at night! I just mixed up "veenyeslee" and "veevyelee" in some places - they both mean "brought out", but "veenyeslee" means literally "to carry out" (the chest and the staff), and "veevyelee" means "to lead out" (horse and the girl). This is how it should read - hope it makes sense!:

Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting

Veevyelee yemoo, oi, Veevyelee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo voronovo konya.         They brought him a black horse   
- Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh       This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta batyushki movo         This is my father's.

Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting


Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veenyeslee yemoo soondookoo, polnee dabra They brought him a chest full of treasure
- Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh       This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta dyevyera movo.         This is not mine, it's my brother-in-law's

Vyon nad vadoi, oi, vyon nad vadoi Mist on the water, oh, mist on the water
Vyon nad vadoi rassteelayetsuh. Mist on the water spreads out
Zheneek oo varot, oi, zheneek oo varot, The bridegroom at the gate, oh, the bridegroom             at the gate
Zheneek oo varot dazheedayetsuh The bridegroom at the gate is waiting

Veevyelee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo svyet-Nastasyushkoo.    They brought him his darling Anastasia
- Eta vot moyo, oi, eto vot mayo,                This is mine, oh, this is mine,
Eta vot mayo, bogom suzhenoye                This is mine, betrothed by God


The alternative ending:

Veevyelee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veevyelee yemoo svyet-Nastasyushkoo.    They brought him his darling Anastasia
Eta nye mayoh, oi, eta nye mayoh               This is not mine, oh, this is not mine,
Eta nye mayoh, eta druga movo                   This is not mine, it's my friend's

Veenyeslee yemoo, oi, Veenyeslee yemoo, They brought him, oh, they brought him
Veenyeslee yemoo pasok ee soomoo            They brought him a staff and a scrip
- Eta vot moyo, oi, eto vot mayo,                This is mine, oh, this is mine,
Eta vot mayo, bogom suzhenoye                This is mine, betrothed by God


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 12:59 AM

CRIKEY! I go away a coupla days and it's All Sorted!
Ah MUDCAT, yer've done it again!!!

I am soooo grateful to you Esteemed Guest, Mr John Bowden; it's the perfect answer!

Thank You,Thank You, Thank You.

Now to learn the song .......

Cheers!
Rich-Joy
(Down Under)


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 01:59 AM

Oh I almost forgot :
John, did you get any clues from the myriad Russian YT versions as to where and when the song may have originated??

e.g. is it "traditional" or was it written in the Folk Style?
(Was it perhaps written for one of those films?)
Does it seem more popular in a particular area?

Can/does anyone say where it's from?!

Cheers!
R-J


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,John Bowden
Date: 15 Nov 16 - 08:39 AM

Hi R-J,

All the websites I've seen describe it as a Cossack folk song. It featured in the 1982 film Не могу сказать «прощай» (Nye magoo skazat' proshai - I can't say goodbye), and the film's website also describes the song as a folk song - but I can't find anything that says how old it might be.
Cheers,
John


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 04:19 AM

Hi John - I note your interest in and knowledge of Russian song. Is that through any family connection? My Grandfather was a Russian Orthodox priest and Cossack of the Kuban river. Although my Grandmother was Polish and my Dad was born in Poland he always insists that, through the male line, we are all Cossacks :-)

They were a very musical family and though, sadly, I have not inherited the musician gene, I did inherit a couple of old songs books, one of which is scanned and posted on here under the link 'Russian Folk Songs'. I think I still have another although I am not sure where I could lay my hands on it now. If you are interested in them you are more than welcome to have a copy - Just let me know.

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: GUEST,John Bowden
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 10:16 AM

Hi Dave,

Wow, what an interesting family heritage! No, I don't have anything like that in my family. I just started learning German and Russian at school in Liverpool in the 60s, then did an MA in German & Russian at McMaster, Hamilton, Ontario - but thereafter I very much concentrated on German, living in Germany for a few years, doing a PhD and ending up lecturing at university in Sheffield before retiring 4 years ago - so my Russian has always been very underused and gets weaker by the year! I also don't perform any Russian material - my wife, Vic Shepherd, and I perform English traditional material, with some Canadian and N. American variants. However, I would be interested in any Russian song books you want to get rid of - let me know how to contact you.

All the best,
John


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Subject: RE: Russian folksong - ANY information?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 05:23 PM

Hi John - Not putting my email addy on a public website is difficult but my name is dpolshaw and you may be able to reach me at gmail.com :-) I can easily scan the first book again and I shall try to dig out the other.

Cheers

Dave


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