BS: Our Apology

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 02:56 AM

"but it the only aspect of that detestable worm, that we might be able to laugh about."

The laughter soon wears thin when you realise this person shapes how others see your country and affect your dealings with the world. We've got arch buffoon Boris Johnson as Foreign Secretary and although a certain section of society always thinks Boris is good for a laugh, no-one's laughing now*.


*Like many folk, I never thought Boris was funny. He's a racist, a habitual liar and is exudes that sense of loathsomeness one gets from a certain type of right winger (see Farage and Trump also).

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 03:02 AM

In case anyone has forgotten, and it appears that at least one person has, Trump was not elected by half of the US electorate. Only 58% of the electorate turned out and of those the majority voted for Clinton. The only reason Trump is at the White House is because of an odd quirk in the American electoral system.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 03:14 AM

Ake, you forget that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote by 2,000,000. My vote as a Californian counts a whole lot less than the votes of those who live in the "red states" in the center of the country. Trump was right about one thing: the election was rigged.

And I don't tend to side with "people of faith" when those people use their "faith" to support their fears and prejudices. I believe faith should support generosity and justice, two things Trump doesn't seem to believe in.

And no, I didn't see anything particularly unethical in the way Hillary conducted her campaign. Certainly, she played to win - but that's the name of the game.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 04:36 AM

Trump didn't play to win.

He played to defeat the other party.

There is a difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 08:40 AM

If Mrs Clinton had been elected president, we would almost certainly be facing another East /West cold war situation.

Joe I was not questioning how Mrs Clinton ran her primary campaign, but how the party hierarchy attempted to stop Mr Sanders. That was the biggest mistake of the whole campaign, turning many confirmed Democrat voters to a third party.

I did warn you at the time but the lure of "First woman president", the "glass ceiling", proved too much for the "liberals"

A

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 09:12 AM

Just trying to help.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 10:11 AM

If Mrs Clinton had been elected president, we would almost certainly be facing another East /West cold war situation.

Ake, enough of the delusional rantings, OK? You've made this ridiculous claim dozens of times and it was, and is, bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 10:11 AM

"we would almost certainly be facing another East /West cold war situation."
What an indcredibly stupid and uncorroborated statement - from someone who still won't comment on Trump's own statements of intent
"First woman president", the "glass ceiling"
Bit of misogyny thrown in as good measure as well.
Keep 'em in the kitchen or on their backs, that' what I say!!
To be fair, tne nearest he's come to commenting on Trump's policies though
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 10:13 AM

This isn't about HRC any more, her political career is most likely over. This is about the fact that some Americans, in their infinite stupidity, have elected a grossly unqualified, amoral uber capitalist as their president. We've been observing him here since he first promoted himself into public view some 30-odd years ago and any one with better than a room temperature I.Q. knows he is rotten to the core.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 11:09 AM

Here's a couple of Trumps policies for Ake to comment on:

1. Replacing Medicare with TRUMP CARE

2. TRUMP'S WALL

"As many Americans are trying to figure out what kind of president they have just elected, the people of Balmedie, a small village outside the once oil-rich city of Aberdeen, say they have a pretty good idea. In the 10 years since Mr. Trump first visited, vowing to build "the world's greatest golf course" on an environmentally protected site featuring 4,000-year-old sand dunes, they have seen him lash out at anyone standing in his way. They say they watched him win public support for his golf course with grand promises, then watched him break them one by one."

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 12:48 PM

"FOR AKE to COMMENT ON"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 01:30 PM

Hitler also came to power in a democratic election, in which he received a minority of the vote.

In any case, even if the result of the election has to be respected, that is no reason to respect the person elected. Berlusconi? Thatcher? Netanyahu? Trump is not unique in being detested on the basis that he is detestable.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 04:07 PM

Mr McGrath, I fear you are listing "Les Detestables" based on their political affiliations rather than on their morality.

The most detestable politician in my voting lifetime was leader of the Labour party for many years.....but he spoke well, believed in completely unregulated immigration from within the EU and never laid a finger on any "pussy" but Cherie's......and then only with the lights out, under the duvet and wearing industrial gloves.

The game's up, there is going to be an evolution and if Left and Right don't take part there will certainly ensue a form of Fascism.

People have been programmed to accept unbridled capitalism, when it's working efficiently, but when it goes into decline as it always does,(it's in the nature of the beast) people will not accept the consequences. Important matters come to the fore like survival, the right to a decent fulfilling life, freedom from abject poverty.

The backlash kicks in with a vengeance!

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 05:37 PM

Ake, give your spew a farking rest, already. In your case, the ignorant bullshit kicks in with a vengeance. Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 05:54 PM

Oh alright Greg, it's bed time anyway......just till tomorrow mind! ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 06:05 PM

Morality is a perceived concept. The Borgias were upstanding moral Christians. So was Rasputin. So are some of the members of this forum who spout hatred and intolerance of others. I would much rather go by what people do than what they preach. And Trump neither preaches nor performs according to anyone's moral code but that of the gutter.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 06:18 PM

Meanwhile, back in Scotland.........

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Nov 16 - 06:39 PM

"...and never laid a finger on any "pussy" but Cherie's......and then only with the lights out, under the duvet and wearing industrial gloves."

I don't like the man any more than you do, but this is completely uncalled for.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 08:06 AM

And still we have the bizarre situation of a newly-elected US President whose supporters are too cowardly to speak up in support of what he has said.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 08:21 AM

Whatever is said ,YOU will make it your business to "paraphrase" it as you did with my post concerning Obamacare.

Amending what people write then presenting the result in quotation marks is cowardly and disingenuous.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Stu
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 08:45 AM

"Blending wot people wrote then presenting the rabbit in quotation breeks is cowardly and disingenuous."

Too true.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Mr Red
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 08:59 AM

Interestingly Juan Enriquez (about half way) said this about the possibility of future human evolution - notably in June!

extinction level events like the next election - he made it more pointed later.

Now there's a man getting his apology in well in advance. Did he know something about the future we only feared?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 09:36 AM

No, Trump, We Can't Just Get Along

Hear, Hear!

Read Up, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 02:28 PM

presenting the result in quotation marks is cowardly and disingenuous.

Does that include "First woman president", "glass ceiling" and "liberals" :-D

Some people really do just lead with the chin don't they...

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 02:54 PM

"Whatever is said ,YOU will make it your business to "paraphrase" it as you did with my post concerning Obamacare."
Then you won't comment for fear of misrepresentation - what on earth are you doing on a public forum?
"Amending what people write "
Been here before Ake - I have never amended anything and presented it as having been said - I summed up your attitude to others and caricatured it, and it is disingenuous of you to suggest otherwise, having already had that explained to you.
What is "cowardly and disingenuous is supporting a fascist thug and refusing to acknowledge what he is and what he has said.
Feel free to identify yourself in that description - that is actually what you and your buddies are doing.
The reason you will not respond is, that having done so, you will then have to take responsibility for what you are supporting.
Nobody needs to paraphrase what Trump the Thump has said - he speaks every statement of hate and contempt for humanity loud and clear
Of course, once more you will remain silent on this and hide behind your blanket support.
That is the MASK you have chosen to hide behind
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 03:27 PM

Nice piece I have just C&Pd from a friend on Facebook.

Historian, Holocaust expert and Yale Professor Timothy Snyder posted to FB on Tuesday Nov 22:

"Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism, or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so. Here are twenty lessons from the twentieth century, adapted to the circumstances of today.

1. Do not obey in advance. Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You've already done this, haven't you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

2. Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don't protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.

3. Recall professional ethics. When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words. Look out for the expansive use of "terrorism" and "extremism." Be alive to the fatal notions of "exception" and "emergency." Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives. When the terrorist attack comes, remember that all authoritarians at all times either await or plan such events in order to consolidate power. Think of the Reichstag fire. The sudden disaster that requires the end of the balance of power, the end of opposition parties, and so on, is the oldest trick in the Hitlerian book. Don't fall for it.

6. Be kind to our language. Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone is saying. (Don't use the internet before bed. Charge your gadgets away from your bedroom, and read.) What to read? Perhaps "The Power of the Powerless" by Václav Havel, 1984 by George Orwell, The Captive Mind by Czesław Milosz, The Rebel by Albert Camus, The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt, or Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Peter Pomerantsev.

7. Stand out. Someone has to. It is easy, in words and deeds, to follow along. It can feel strange to do or say something different. But without that unease, there is no freedom. And the moment you set an example, the spell of the status quo is broken, and others will follow.

8. Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights.

9. Investigate. Figure things out for yourself. Spend more time with long articles. Subsidize investigative journalism by subscribing to print media. Realize that some of what is on your screen is there to harm you. Bookmark PropOrNot or other sites that investigate foreign propaganda pushes.

10. Practice corporeal politics. Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.

11. Make eye contact and small talk. This is not just polite. It is a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down unnecessary social barriers, and come to understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

12. Take responsibility for the face of the world. Notice the swastikas and the other signs of hate. Do not look away and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.

13. Hinder the one-party state. The parties that took over states were once something else. They exploited a historical moment to make political life impossible for their rivals. Vote in local and state elections while you can.

14. Give regularly to good causes, if you can. Pick a charity and set up autopay. Then you will know that you have made a free choice that is supporting civil society helping others doing something good.

15. Establish a private life. Nastier rulers will use what they know about you to push you around. Scrub your computer of malware. Remember that email is skywriting. Consider using alternative forms of the internet, or simply using it less. Have personal exchanges in person. For the same reason, resolve any legal trouble. Authoritarianism works as a blackmail state, looking for the hook on which to hang you. Try not to have too many hooks.

16. Learn from others in other countries. Keep up your friendships abroad, or make new friends abroad. The present difficulties here are an element of a general trend. And no country is going to find a solution by itself. Make sure you and your family have passports.

17. Watch out for the paramilitaries. When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

18. Be reflective if you must be armed. If you carry a weapon in public service, God bless you and keep you. But know that evils of the past involved policemen and soldiers finding themselves, one day, doing irregular things. Be ready to say no. (If you do not know what this means, contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and ask about training in professional ethics.)

19. Be as courageous as you can. If none of us is prepared to die for freedom, then all of us will die in unfreedom.

20. Be a patriot. The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it."



Good advice in my opinion.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 05:10 PM

Thanks for sharing that, Dave. Just what I needed.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 05:11 PM

Nice courageous advice Dave.

Ake says we should be afraid.

I'm afraid Ake is.

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Nov 16 - 11:25 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: democracy just doesn't work ...

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Andrez
Date: 27 Nov 16 - 05:16 AM

Trump in Scotland. Nice one Lizzie,

Cheers,

Andrez

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Nov 16 - 10:26 AM

I'm afraid Ake is.

Is what?

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 16 - 12:36 PM

A political genius!    live and learn Greg :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Nov 16 - 07:36 PM

Jim has discovered the eternal link between ignoring and ignorant.
You can lead a horse to knowledge but you can't make it hate might makes right.

Donald
Trump   Tweets :The Muslim gunman* shooting
students at Ohio State is an Islamic terrorist. I was right and Obama is wrong, I am right you are wrong naah na na naah naah!


Somewhere deep in Trump's heart which is like an egg timer duct taped to a fitbit, he cares about victims and their families.

*no gunman but there was a driver of hate

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 16 - 11:13 AM

Dr. Batshit Crazy, Junior, as HHS Secretary:

Donald Trump has chosen a prominent critic of Obamacare as his secretary of health and human services, casting fresh doubt over the future of the Affordable Care Act.

Congressman Tom Price said that whatever Republicans do to replace Obama's healthcare law will bear a "significant resemblance" to a 2015 measure that was vetoed by the president. That bill would have gutted some of the health care law's main features: Medicaid expansion, subsidies to help middle-class Americans buy private policies, the tax penalties for individuals who refused to get coverage and several taxes to support coverage expansion.

Price said Republicans want to address "the real cost drivers" of healthcare price spikes, which he said were a heavy regulatory burden, taxes and lawsuits against medical professionals. [Yeah, right! Reaganomics rides to the rescue.]

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Nov 16 - 11:32 AM

"You can lead a horse to knowledge but you can't make it hate might makes right."
Don't suppose you'd care to qualify that Donuel - no?
Thought not - another cowardly hit-and runner!!
Fecxkin' thread is crawling with them
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 16 - 12:20 PM

SIEG HEIL! HEIL TRUMP!

A new website that accuses nearly 200 college professors of advancing "leftist propaganda in the classroom" and discriminating against conservative students has been criticized as a threat to academic freedom.

The site, "Professor Watchlist", which first appeared Nov. 21, says it names those instructors who "advance a radical agenda in lecture halls."

"We aim to post professors who have records of targeting students for their viewpoints, forcing students to adopt a certain perspective, and/or abuse or harm students in any way for standing up for their beliefs," wrote Matt Lamb, an organizer of the site.

The Professor Watchlist is a project of Turning Point USA, a nonprofit organization that says its mission is to educate students about "true free market values." Charlie Kirk, its founder and executive director, wrote in a blog post that "it's no secret that some of America's college professors are totally out of line" and that it was time to expose them.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/28/us/professor-watchlist-is-see

Subject: RE: BS: Our Apology
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Nov 16 - 06:10 PM

Yo, Ache! This'll sweep the Hillary corruption out of govt.! A Goldman-Sachs toady!! Heil One PerCent!!! Heil Trump! Heil Cowfart Bruce!


WASHINGTON — Steven Terner Mnuchin, a financier with deep roots on Wall Street and in Hollywood but no government experience, is expected to be named Donald J. Trump's Treasury secretary.

Mr. Mnuchin, 53, was the national finance chairman for Mr. Trump's campaign. He began his career at Goldman Sachs, where he became a partner.