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Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now!
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Subject: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 27 Nov 16 - 03:13 PM It's about how 'Graceland' was composed and recorded. I've always adored this album. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 27 Nov 16 - 04:30 PM Paul Simon displayed enormous humility in the documentary. He's also a superb crafter of songs. I find his lyrics extremely evocative and his music complex and skilled. It was also good to see the late Miriam Makeba singing with him in South Africa. Ladysmith Black Mambazo were also featured, in 'Homeless' and 'Diamonds on the Soles Of Her Shoes'. The whole thing was a real treat to watch! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Jeri Date: 27 Nov 16 - 05:32 PM I can't watch BBC here, but I love the album, and I remember when he recorded it. He did this huge concert in South Africa when Americans weren't supposed to go to South Africa. People here were a little bothered by his defiance, but I think he did far more good by going. I don't know if I ever would have heard of Miriam Makeba or Ladysmith Black Mambazo. The latter's career too off in the US as a result of the exposure they got from singing with Simon. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 27 Nov 16 - 05:39 PM Yes Jeri, he decided to go to South Africa and was widely criticised for not avoiding the place, and undermining the boycott. But he saw it as showing solidarity with the black people in a non-confrontational way, and I think he was right. What was lovely was the way his Western musical compositions blended with the African rhythms, and how respectful he was (without being patronising) of their culture and traditions. I just adore the man. He has a gentle, insightful personality and I reckon he's a musical genius! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Will Fly Date: 27 Nov 16 - 06:14 PM The Graceland live concert was actually in Zimbabwe - Miriam Makeba and Hugh Masekela were banned from South Africa. It's a fantastic concert and may be still available on DVD. I've had the DVD for some time and love it. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,SB Date: 27 Nov 16 - 11:29 PM You CAN watch BBC iPlayer from overseas - you need a paid for VPN service. You can also download the programme using get_iplayer. And the programme is likely to be available from many torrent site, just do a Google search. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,SB Date: 27 Nov 16 - 11:38 PM Classic Albums http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007b6hv Paul Simon: Graceland Since its release in 1986, Paul Simon's Graceland has had an enormous impact on rock music with its blend of rock and African rhythms. Simon and engineer Roy Halee demonstrate the multi-tracking and mixing of the album and reveal the inspiration behind the songs, and composer Philip Glass assesses the album's place in musical history. Featuring interviews with major artists involved in the album, including Joseph Shabalala of Ladysmith Black Mambazo and guitarist Ray Phiri, who shatter the myth about their relationship with Simon. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Thompson Date: 28 Nov 16 - 02:32 AM I've missed more programmes on BBC4 than I've had hot dinners, and they're always, always repeated. It'll be around again. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Mr Red Date: 28 Nov 16 - 04:06 AM When I was at boarding school a guy had a portable gramophone and a relative in South Africa who had sent a couple of "ethnic" records. They stayed with me as an earworm for years. Tin whistle very prominent. It still evokes that "discovery" of youth. Paul Simon said he was captivated by a music tape I assume was similar, and with a lull in his career decided to follow his whim, as all creative people do. He didn't bring down apartheid, but the album certainly drove at least one nail in its coffin. Simon is a very astute guy, he maintains he wasn't scoring political points with the move, but he is such a nice guy he must not want to upset his detractors who were vociferous at the time. Which increases his stature all the more. IMNSHO. And he ain't an average songwriter neither! He, first and foremost, just wanted to make music. As Joseph Shabalala said "They used him, as much as he used them". |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST Date: 28 Nov 16 - 07:41 AM Great album. If Simon were to make this beautiful music today he would likely be accused of " cultural appropriation" and called a bigot. how the world has changed . |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 28 Nov 16 - 08:40 AM How so, Guest? Paul Simon is still making beautiful music that has roots in all manner of cultures (Have you heard 'Stranger to Stranger'?) and does not receive such accusations as far as I know. Graceland is indeed a wonderful album with many magnificent tracks. I do think that much of his work is equally noteworthy though, going from the present day right back to his early works. A master wordsmith and musician in all respects. Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:11 AM I was particularly struck by the immense amount of work he put in when 'mixing' all the tapes he had before him. He adjusted, changed, added and re-evaluated constantly, until the result was as near perfect as he could make it. A true musical craftsman. I also found it very interesting to listen to his explanations of how he wrote his lyrics, and again changed and added to them, always striving for the most evocative and effective words or phrases. And none of this showed any arrogance or self-acclaim at all. He was merely explaining in a humble and earnest way how he'd gone about it. If I sound a bit of a fan, well I am! Have to say too, Black Mambazo are just fabulous. My husband hadn't come across them as he's from W Africa, (different musical traditions with the 'cora' and 'bala' a wooden xylophone mounted on a gourd, plus drums called 'konkoni' and 'djembe'). Like me he was blown away by their beautiful voice-blending and harmonies. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:19 AM By the way (can't shut me up!) has anyone come across 'Baka Beyond'? This is a group of Europeans and members of the Baka (used to be called Pygmies, from rainforests in Cameroon and Congo) who combined to make music together. The result was very different and enjoyable. The group used any money they made in concerts to improve the lives of the Baka, (but making sure they didn't impose anything on them, and respecting their autonomy. They chose for themselves how they'd like the money to be spent.) I think combining two very different musical cultures and traditions can produce startling, complex and rather beautiful music. I used to be a bit of a purist, but I'm coming round to this idea of merging! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Will Fly Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:19 AM Eliza, I was lucky enough to see Ladysmith Black Mambazo life at the Dome in Brighton about 1988 or so - absolutely superb evening, though we couldn't understand a word they sang! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:40 AM Oh Will, you lucky thing! They used one of their songs for a Heinz baked bean advert a while ago. Joseph Shabalala's voice brings tears to my eyes! I've just looked up some stuff on Google, and the word 'Mambazo' means 'axe' in Zulu. And the poor guy's full name is:- Bhekizizwe Joseph Siphatimandla Mxoveni Mshengu Bigboy (!) Shabalala In Phonetics at Uni we learned how to speak in clicks, which is harder than it sounds. Part of our oral exam involved producing San, Zulu and Basarwa words containing all types of clicks. I was the only one who could do it. But then, talking is my forte!! :) |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,DTM Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:45 AM Fabulous programme and well worth the watch even if just for the insight into the production, writing, research and performance of this master of works. Interseting to hear the Everly Brothers singing back up vocals on the title track (whether used or not on the final cut). |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 28 Nov 16 - 09:48 AM Yes, DTM, I found that fascinating too. He certainly wove all sorts into his works! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: fat B****rd Date: 28 Nov 16 - 10:19 AM I saw the gentleman at the Royal Albert Hall earlier this month. The whole show, with several encores, was outstanding. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 28 Nov 16 - 10:28 AM Only time I saw him was at G-Mex in Manchester. Amazing concert but the place was too huge to appreciate it fully. I would love to see him at a smaller and more intimate venue but he doesn't do folk clubs any more! DtG |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST Date: 28 Nov 16 - 06:37 PM Well, Dave, you did once start a thread on this topic of cultural appropriation where Paul Simons name came up, did you not ? It was your post that made me raise the question. a bit disingenuous of you to be surprised by my comment. In any case, you may disremembery your post from a while ago. . Yes ? |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Mr Red Date: 29 Nov 16 - 03:47 AM If Simon were to make this beautiful music today he would likely be accused of " cultural appropriation" If I remember right they accused him of just that at the time. Said he was being cynical. Time has treated him more kindly; musically, culturally, financially and politically. Rightly so. The man has gravitas. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST Date: 29 Nov 16 - 06:58 AM I agree Mr. Red, he does have gravitas. we have recently had threads on Dylan and Cohen , among the best songwriters ever , I believe Paul Simon belongs right up there with them. Three of the most outstanding songwriters of the past fifty year, I think! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Dave the Gnome Date: 29 Nov 16 - 09:28 AM Gosh, Guest, You have a far better memory than I. For those who have no idea what we are talking about, In defense of cultural appropriation is the thread in question. It is to discuss an article by musician and writer Yo Zushi which is, errrr, in defense of cultural appropriation. Surprisingly. Yes, it does call the phrase to mind and I used Paul Simon as an example without, in any way, suggesting that he had appropriated anything. Aside from that, it has little to do with this discussion so I am not sure why or how that makes my comment in any way disingenuous. Still, it is nice to know that someone out there is hanging on my every word :-) Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 29 Nov 16 - 09:56 AM Mr Red, I'm wondering if the lad at your boarding school was playing a record called 'Tom Hark' by 'Elias and his Zig-Zag Jive Flutes? It's a South African piece, and features lots of tin whistles and a guitar. It was always being played on the radio in the 1950's, and was the title music to The Killing Stones (a TV series) I've just found it (after all these years!) on Youtube. (Dabs eyes with hankie) Paul Simon mentioned in the programme that he loved the 'tin whistle bands' which were found all over the townships. 'Tom Hark' has always seemed to me to evoke Africa. Elias and his mates speak a bit before the music starts. But it isn't in Zulu. It could be Ndebele or Pedi. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Will Fly Date: 29 Nov 16 - 10:01 AM I have the 45rpm, Eliza - bought it when I was about 14! The music was known at the time as Kwela music, I believe. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Will Fly Date: 29 Nov 16 - 10:03 AM Just plated the record again - I do believe they're rolling dice before they start playing... |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Will Fly Date: 29 Nov 16 - 10:07 AM "played" - not "plated" :-) They play it in Bb, and it sounds as though they finish on a Bb6th chord. There's posh for you. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 29 Nov 16 - 10:12 AM Goodness Will, you're right - they are indeed rolling dice of some sort! And I've just looked up 'Kwela'. Hadn't heard this word (I'm much more familiar with musical traditions of W Africa, as I said) Isn't Mudcat wonderful? I've learned so much on here! (I should be washing the kitchen floor just now instead of enjoying myself, but who cares?) |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Senoufou Date: 29 Nov 16 - 10:30 AM My two friends (both called Susan) and I were mad on music, and during the lunch hour at grammar school we'd go into the girls' toilets (good echo in there) and play anything and everything. We had a melodeon, a Hohner harmonica, and we all had those ghastly recorders. Our favourites from our repertoire were 'I've Got A Lovely Bunch Of Coconuts', 'Tom Hark' and 'O Worship The King' (very wide-ranging tastes) But the vicious Deputy Head, Miss Cartman, came flying in one day and marched us down to her office. She didn't cane us but threatened us with death if we ever played again. Nasty woman. I've just played the 'B' side to 'Tom Hark', called 'Ry Ry'. I feel quite choked up. Memories can be so poignant... |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Joe Offer Date: 29 Nov 16 - 02:36 PM Last weekend's Prairie Home Companion was a rebroadcast of a show from February 6, 2016. One of the guests was Paul Simon, and he did a new song, "Wristband":It's a great song - take a listen. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 29 Nov 16 - 02:55 PM Wow Joe, I really liked that! All about exclusion, the have-nots and even the never-will-haves. He still has such power, I just adore him! |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: Mr Red Date: 30 Nov 16 - 05:26 AM Senoufou 'Tom Hark' by 'Elias and his Zig-Zag Jive Flutes Doesn't ring the bell fully, too many tin whistles. What I remember was more like the single tin whistle and guitar of the documentary with maybe a one or two more instruments doing counterpoint. It was a 78 and did come from SA. Date about right. But I would have heard the Ted Heath version and I don't make the connection. Could have been Ry Ry (flip side) much closer. But at the time my naive impression was of a clarinet. these seem close too: Spokes Mashiyane - Thaba Bosiu Leslie Nkosi and the Alexandra Dead End Kids - Baleka These must be the kinds of music Paul Simon was listening to before he went to SA. As he said, such happy music from such dire surroundings. Thankyou Mr Simon for talking me back. |
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Subject: RE: Paul Simon on BBC FOUR now! From: GUEST,Senoufou Date: 30 Nov 16 - 05:51 AM It is happy music isn't it Mr Red? I've always been struck by the exuberance and joy expressed in African music played and sung by musicians in dire poverty. They dance and cavort about so enthusiastically, when I know their lives are mostly sheer drudgery and hopelessness. I expect it relieves the tedium for a time. West African music is far more rhythm-based, with many sorts of drum and shaker instruments, and the balafon, a wooden xylophone. The cora (a sort of giant gourd with strings, mounted on legs and played softly) is one of my favourites. It's used in Mali quite a bit, but also in many other countries. The complexity of their rhythms is amazing; goodness knows what 'time signature' they use. The Congolese 'Missa Luba' has examples of drum/percussion performance using astonishing rhythms. I think Paul Simon is open to any and every kind of music, without cultural boundaries, and can weave it in to express his ideas and illustrate his lyrics. He really is a great musician and composer in my view. |
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