Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4

Subject: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 27 Dec 16 - 07:53 AM

Auld Lang Syne

Soul Music BBC radio 4
27 Dec 2016

"It's gone from being an 18th century song about impotence to one of the best known songs all over the world.
Most of us have sung Auld Lang Syne at some point in our lives on New Year's Eve, but how many of us know more than a few of the words and anything of its origin and meaning?
Soul Music hears the stories behind the song, how it went from being a reflective melancholic Scottish air about the parting of the ways, to the jaunty tune we know today.
There are also stories of love, sorrow, hope and joy, emotions that are especially heightened at this time of year."
(the musical stuff is spread through roughly the first 20 minutes)

Soul Music - Auld Lang Syne - @bbcradio4  

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
links to a couple of people talking or mentioned

Fred Freeman https://www.rcs.ac.uk/staff/fred-freeman/ 

Mairi Campbell https://mairicampbell.scot 

Tannahill Weavers - YouTube - Auld Lang Syne 

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 27 Dec 16 - 07:52 PM

The 'song about impotence' is surely John Anderson My Jo (the original version)?
Auld Lang Syne always was about the friendship of two guys who played together as children and who still are 'friens' after many years, even if they have gone their separate ways and only meet from time to time?

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 05:53 AM

> The 'song about impotence' is surely John Anderson My Jo (the original version)?

Completely different words: the theme is that the woman is giving up on getting the man to perform, whereas in John Anderson My Jo she's encouraging him to keep trying.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 09:37 AM

There is no evidence that the bawdier version of John Anderson is any more original than the other one. It's quite likely that Burns made it up in its entirety.

And I suspect that any bawdy interpretation of "Auld Lang Syne" is entirely in Freeman's head. He appears to think that "folk" = "crude and stupid" (and also that crudeness and stupidity are a good thing).

There were bawdy words for the tune we now sing "Auld Lang Syne" to, but they have nothing to do with impotence.

Given some of the other uses for the older "Auld Lang Syne" tune (like an extremely longwinded and brutally insulting political satire), it can't have been seen as "melancholic" at the time. It just isn't very good compared with the alternative that won out.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Marje
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 12:56 PM

I don't know why they described the older tune as an "air" and the better known one as a "reel". They have exactly the same rhythm; all that varies is the chosen tempo, and the latter tune is rarely played or sung at the pace of a reel.

They also said there were three tunes, but the two lesser known ones were in fact exactly the same tune, just sung by different performers.

Marje

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 02:32 PM

The Morgan Library :
"O Can Ye Labor Lea, Young Man"
pdf of Johnson & Co., 1792
& mp3
http://www.themorgan.org/collection/Auld-Lang-Syne/6
(mudcat TUNE FILE: AULDLANG @displaysong.cfm?songid=374)

&
The Morgan Library :
"Auld Lang Syne"
pdf of Johnson & Co., 1796
& mp3
http://www.themorgan.org/collection/Auld-Lang-Syne/7
(mudcat TUNE FILE: AULDLNG2 @displaysong.cfm?songid=374)


The Burns tune sung in the programme at 3:30 & 13:20 are surely the same
but did they mean as "the third tune" the Tannahill version, which they didn't play?
It sounds only slightly different to me. Like they're turning a harmony for Burns' original tune into their melody?
Someone with a better ear might say.

this is an easier Tannahill Youtube file
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RjzQTP7eFU

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Marje
Date: 28 Dec 16 - 05:04 PM

Ah, thank you, that makes more sense. So there is a third tune - but on the show they didn't play it, they just played the older tune again.
I don't think that Tannahills tune in the clip is melodically connected with either of the other tunes, but it does sound a bit like something else - is it "Willie of Winsbury"?

Marje

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 05:06 AM

Rod Paterson sings Auld Lang Syne to the tune in Freddy's second link, in clips from Transatlantic Sessions and elsewhere. If Jack is saying that this tune "isn't very good compared with the alternative which won out", well I would differ on that.

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: Marje
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 10:16 AM

I agree, Dave, I like that tune version much and sing it sometimes. It has a wistfulness about the melody when sung at a relaxed pace, and the fact that it's an unexpected tune makes people stop and listen to the words, rather than jumping to their feet and crossing their hands.

Marje

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 29 Dec 16 - 02:35 PM

...Sorry AULDLNG2 above should be 376
@displaysong.cfm?songid=376

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 31 Dec 16 - 06:52 PM

For fun I did try those two tunes together.
Interesting anyway ;)
Auld Lang Syne
Burns(Johnson 1796) v Tannahill

X:1
T:Auld Lang Syne
T:Burns(Johnson 1796) v Tannahill
%%score [ 1 | 2 ]
L:1/8
Q:1/4=55
M:4/4
I:linebreak $
K:Dmaj
V:1 treble nm="Burns"
%%MIDI program 0
V:2 treble nm="Tannahill"
%%MIDI program 0
V:1
A | d>d ef A>B AF | d>f e>d B2 $
d< B | A>F ED E>D E>F | A2 BA A3 $
A | d2 ef A>B AF | d>f ed B3 $
d/B/ | AFED E>D EF | A2 B>A d3 |] %9
V:2
D/E/ | F>G A>F E>D D>D | Dd c>d B3 $
z/ d/ | d>d c>A B>A Ed/c/ | B>A F/E/F/A/ B3 $
z/ z/ | z8 | z8 |$ z8 | z8 |] %9


midi Auld Lang Syne - Burns(Johnson 1796) v Tannahill

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: meself
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 01:50 AM

So - is the idea that there was a completely different set of lyrics to the same air, that had to do with impotence - or is the idea that Auld Lang Syne is actually about impotence(!)? Or what? (I"d rather get a quick answer here than listen to the show to find out ... ).

Subject: RE: Auld Lang Syne- 'Soul Music'-BBC R4
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 04:43 AM

Or just that the writer of Auld Lang Syne wrote another, different poem which wasn't itself about impotence, but borrowed from an earlier poem which was.

Subject: Lyrics Add:O can ye labour lee, young man?
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 01 Jan 17 - 07:23 AM

idk... Are they talking about this ?

CAN YE LABOUR LEE, YOUNG MAN?
tune: Sir Arch. Grant's Strathspey

From MMC. Original of Burns's song of same name (HH in, 138).

I fee'd a man at Martinmas,
Wi arle pennies three;
But a' the f au't I had to him,
He coudna labour lee.

O can ye labour lee, young man,
O can ye labour lee;
Gae back the road ye cam agin,
Ye shall never scorn me.

A stibble rig is easy plough'd,
An fallow land is free;
But what a silly coof is he,
That carina labour lee.

The spretty bush, an benty knowe,
The ploughman points his sock in,
He sheds the roughness, lays it by,
An ? bauldly ploughs his yokin\

https://archive.org/stream/merrymusesofcaleburn/merrymusesofcaleburn_djvu.txt
&
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XBuXPcZgZ4kC&pg=PA75&lpg=PA75&dq="Merry+Muses++"),++"O+can+ye+labour+lee,+young+man?"&source


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O Can Ye Labor/Labour gets mentioned in
thread.cfm?threadid=53209#817800

thread.cfm?threadid=16346#152187

thread.cfm?threadid=97751#1927546