BS: Presidential pardons

Subject: BS: Presidential pardons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 09:50 PM

Good news that Obama finally stepped up, and commuted Chelsea Manning's savage sentence for doing his moral duty - and also scheduled an early release for Oscar Rivera, after 35 years in jail. Still no indication he'll be doing the same for Leonard Peltier who's been in jail since 1975, but he could (and should).

I wonder if he'd have freed Chelsea if Hilary had been elected? Perhaps this could be one positive result of Trump's victory.

Yes, and I know commutations aren't the same as pardons, but commutations isn't a good word to fit in a thread title.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 09:58 PM

I don't see how who was elected has anything to do with presidential pardons/commutations. I hope he's not done yet. I keep hoping Leonard Peltier gets pardoned.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Jan 17 - 11:36 PM

Some are making a big deal about how the Manning commutation was such a bad decision. Somehow, they don't seem to remember that Manning will have spent six years in prison by the time she is released. To my mind, six years is a long, long time. Amy Davidson's article in the New Yorker gives five reasons why Manning's prison term should be commuted:

1. When she was a soldier in a war zone, the Army failed her terribly. [i.e., they did not know what to do with a transgender woman]
2. Her sentence was out of proportion to her crime.
3. The military has not handled her incarceration well. [i.e., they did not know what to do with a transgender woman]
4. She has taken responsibility.
5. This is a good moment to reconsider the zealous prosecution of leakers.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 03:10 AM

I wonder if they will stop the action to extradite Mr Assange...in a gesture of goodwill?

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 03:54 AM

"I wonder if they will stop the action to extradite Mr Assange"
I sincerely hope so; it seems a strange sort of 'democracy' put people on trial for telling us what we have every right to know - I thought that's what we accused the Soviet Union of doing, not to mention the 1000 lashes the Saudi journalist was receiving while Cameron and his buddies were paying tribute to the father of the regime who was administering the punishment.
My own personal hero, peace activist, Israeli, Mordachai Vanunu, while abroad, was drugged, abducted and transported back to Israel by Mossad, where he was imprisoned for 18 years, eleven of those in solitary confinement, and later, a further six months for violating his parole - all for the heinous crime of telling an English journalist what we all had the right to know, that Israel had nuclear capability.
Assange would be very wise to steer clear of such 'democratic' countries if he values his freedom and his life.
I have little doubt his name is high on the list of Trump's "bad dudes, in need of seeing to".
Funny thing, "free speech"!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 04:13 AM

"Free speech" is a good idea, generally.
But, if you are in a position where you are handling sensitive information, which may put others at risk if it became widely known, then it is reasonable that you are asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement (such as the Official Secrets Act) before you are provided with the sensitive information.
Once you have signed this, you may then be provided with information which you believe should be made public, but you have given your word that you will not do so.

Black is black, white is white. But there's a hell of a lot of grey in between.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 06:05 AM

There can be higher duties than colluding in suppressing evidence of criminality than the fact that you've promised to keep quiet. No matter who you are working for.

But in any case the time Manning will have served in prison would be seen as an adequate sentence in any civilized country.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 17 - 06:16 AM

"where you are handling sensitive information,"
Depends on who it is sensitive to.
Them at the helm tend to pass laws in order to cover up their own indiscretions as Wikileaks displayed with a vengeance.
The "greyest" area of all is the territory between national and personal interest.
One of the golden rules of criminality is "cover your arse"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: robomatic
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 06:32 PM

In the above the line section there was recently (within the month) a reference to a song in behalf of Leonard Peltier but I have been unable to find it via the Mudcat search protocol.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jan 17 - 07:12 PM

McGrath says: But in any case the time Manning will have served in prison would be seen as an adequate sentence in any civilized country.

Aye, there's the rub. This is the United States we're talking about, a nation with one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. For some reason, many Americans seem to think that a six-year sentence is a "slap on the wrist."

To my mind, six years is a lifetime, an adequate sentence for almost any non-violent crime.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Elmore
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 01:16 AM

Off topic. The first guy in the United States to get a penis transplant's surname was Manning.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: ollaimh
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 03:34 AM

prosecuting anyone for exposing illegal acts during illegql wars is immoral. people volunteering to fight in these illegal wars is immoral. no one doing this has any right to claim lives were put at risk. the actual lives at risk were the million iraqi dead. britain and america can't give up the imperial dream and can't stop pretending it was ever anything but evil.

leonard peltier was extradicted from canada using perjured affidavits from lying fbi agents, and he wasn't directly involved in the deaths of fbi agents. on the other hand the fbi the bia and their funded and armed proxies the "goon" --yes they called them selves that(guardians of the oglala nation, murdered around 400 people on or around pine ridge reservation during these protests. that's why the co accused were acquited in the first trial. the state then rigged the second trial so get someone. because killin injuns is the american way--can you say standing rock?

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 07:02 AM

"The first guy in the United States to get a penis transplant's surname was Manning."
Bobbit always curled me up
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Thompson
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 10:36 AM

Is this the song about Leonard Peltier? What was the row between the FBI and the Native American people about?

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Stu
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 10:44 AM

"What was the row between the FBI and the Native American people about?"

Google it.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 12:02 PM

Not even google may contain the most basic initial truth.

An oil pipeline was designed to go under the river just above a white town. Learning of the risks the company was told to cross the river at the indian part of the river so if it leaked the Indians would be impacted and the white town upstream would be safe from all harm.

All the other reasons are add on arguments of immediacy.

Funny how Indians want clean water so desperately too.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential pardons
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Jan 17 - 02:15 PM

No commutation for Leonard Peltier then. It looks as if they have decided he should die in jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Presidential "pardons"
From: Felipa
Date: 22 Jan 17 - 07:44 AM

not pardons, but commutations, clemency - which is most cases is fair enough (and would have been my view of Peltier, that 40 years was more than enough punishment)