Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] [23] [24] [25] [26] [27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] [60] [61] [62] [63] [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70] [71] [72] [73]


BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 05:24 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 04:10 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 04:07 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 01:43 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 01:04 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 12:22 PM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 12:12 PM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 12:08 PM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM
Jim Carroll 16 Jul 17 - 11:17 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 10:33 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 10:27 AM
Steve Shaw 16 Jul 17 - 08:12 AM
Raggytash 16 Jul 17 - 08:03 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 07:56 AM
Keith A of Hertford 16 Jul 17 - 07:51 AM
Dave the Gnome 16 Jul 17 - 03:09 AM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 04:31 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 02:48 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 01:57 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 01:56 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 12:42 PM
Jim Carroll 15 Jul 17 - 12:24 PM
Steve Shaw 15 Jul 17 - 11:45 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 17 - 06:26 AM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 06:10 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM
Raggytash 15 Jul 17 - 05:07 AM
Dave the Gnome 15 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM
Keith A of Hertford 15 Jul 17 - 03:53 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 02:01 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 17 - 01:27 PM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 12:56 PM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 12:04 PM
Keith A of Hertford 14 Jul 17 - 11:11 AM
Dave the Gnome 14 Jul 17 - 10:25 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 07:39 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 07:26 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 06:43 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:07 AM
Raggytash 14 Jul 17 - 06:04 AM
Steve Shaw 14 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:






Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 05:24 PM

"Not my version.
I just quoted BBC and Guardian. I can quote more.
I can quote, but you can't because your version has no basis in actual fact."

Why quote anybody else? Why not go back to the only thing that matters, the Finkelstein map, complete with text? Who cares what you think, Keith? We have the original! We had the Wheatcroft original! You can't stand originals can you, Keith? Originals never quite align with your agenda, do they, Keith? Always has to be Keith's "superior" take on the original! You're weird, Keith!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 04:10 PM

Oh, and Shah made a prat of herself before she became an MP and was not exactly in the position of responsibility that Morris was.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 04:07 PM

They both made prats of themselves. That is a fact. How do you measure how much of prat each one was? Hertford pratometer? Takes one to know one I suppose.

At least you said it was only your opinion, which is good, but then blew it by suggesting that you think Naz Shah would agree with you.

In your dreams.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 03:43 PM

Steve,
Why on earth would anyone need your version of the "truth"

Not my version.
I just quoted BBC and Guardian. I can quote more.
I can quote, but you can't because your version has no basis in actual fact.

Or, will you produce something that actually supports you?
Ha ha ha ha!

Jim,
Israel's population to be "transported" "#She didn't write it

She did. The Guardian quoted her. I gave you the quote and link.

Dave,
Mine, and that of many others, is that they both made prats of themselves. Is that true or not?

Fact, Morris used an offensive word in an otherwise uncontroversial statement. She did make a prat of herself.
Fact, Shah made anti-Semitic statements. That is worse than just making a prat of herself, in my opinion.
She would agree I think.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 01:43 PM

Dave, you raised a false comparison.

Bollocks. That is your opinion. Mine, and that of many others, is that they both made prats of themselves. Is that true or not? You just seem to be following their lead.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 01:04 PM

" Israel's population to be "transported" "#She didn't write it - she quoted Finklestein - the press used his maps
You are neither interested in the truth and you are using the Jewish People as a club to beat the Labour Party
I would say this is as antisemitic as you could possibly get
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:22 PM

Give over, Keith. Why on earth would anyone need your version of the "truth" when we can go back to the actual map and see the whole text (that wasn't her doing in any case, as you've been told several times: perhaps you think that Norman Finkelstein is just one o' them thar self-hating Jews, eh, Keith?). You're right, Jim. Let him carry on. Not quite as much fun as the mixed doubles though.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:12 PM

It is "comedic" how you people deny the truth put in front of you.

Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America.
"BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Read it.
She wanted the Jewish population "transported" out of the Middle East.
Where is the comedy Steve?
Where is the "joke" Jim.

Blatant racism against Jews and you pretend it is OK.
To you it clearly is OK.
You show yourselves for what you are.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 12:08 PM

Nah
Let him go on
He's proved conclusively that he has no interest whatever in Antisemitism - just a handy stick to beat the Labour Party
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 11:32 AM

Find another bone to gnaw, Keith. This is becoming positively comedic.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 11:17 AM

"Jim, we know she did not draw the maps, but what she said on the subject was racist."
NO IT WAS NOT KEITH - SHE REPATED A JOKE BY A RESPRCTED JEW AND HE POINTED OUT THAT FACT
Are you so antisemitic as to dismiss what he said - of course you are
You have been asked to condemn Israel's open support of antisemitic propaganda and still you refuse
Your agenda here is obvious, **** the Jews - lets give the Labour Party a kicking and ignore Israeli antisemitism in support of a fascist politician
You couldn't have made yourself more plain - at least your mask's off now
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 10:33 AM

She did well in June didn't she? Do you reckon that means that Bradford West is full of antisemites?

Her anti-Semitism was born of ignorance. She knows better now.
She no-longer makes anti-Semitic statements.
As I have said, I admire what she has done. I am glad that she did well.

She was subject to some anti-Semitic abuse herself sadly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 10:27 AM

Rag,
If that is the case why do you keep rabbiting on about it.

I did not bring it up Rag.
I have no problem with her, only with people who deny the anti-Semitism she freely admits to and accepted by all Parties including Labour, and reported on by reputable outlets like the Guardian and BBC.

Steve,
They are not my "hyper-interpretations."

Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America.
"BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

So she did not want the Arabs "transported," just the Jews.
Blatant anti-Semitic racism.
That is what you are defending.

When have I said I'm defending her?

I did not say that. I said you defended her views, saying they were not anti-Semitic.
They were, and it is not just us telling you that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 08:12 AM

"Not true. She advocated the removal of the population but not the Arabs."

Nope. She didn't say that either. We can read verbatim what she said. We really don't need your hyper-interpretations.

"That is what you are defending."

When have I said I'm defending her? I've called her stupid and said that there is no excuse.

Come along, Keith, let's see what other fantasies you can manufacture. Though I doubt whether anyone else in the country is bothered about Naz Shah and the map any more. Dead in the water. Belly up, it is, that one. She did well in June didn't she? Do you reckon that means that Bradford West is full of antisemites? You're the last man standing fighting this one, aren't you? Meanwhile you have a few awkward questions about racism emanating from your own side. Let's start with the use of "nigger" and "piccaninny," shall we?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 08:03 AM

"I was happy to accept the apology and retraction from (Labour)Shah."

If that is the case why do you keep rabbiting on about it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 07:56 AM

Keith is happy to accept that excuse from Morris.
The biggest difference is that she is a Tory MP while Shah is Labour


Not true Dave! I said Tory Morris should be sacked. Go look before posting such shit!
I was happy to accept the apology and retraction from (Labour)Shah.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 07:51 AM

Steve, I do not lie.
She referred to the relocation of Israel, not the transportation of Jews, as you said she did. You lied.

Not true. She advocated the removal of the population but not the Arabs.
That would complete the cleansing of Jews from the whole middle East.
(Including West Bank, hence its inclusion)
That is what you are defending.

Steve,
This is what Keith said::
"Her statements were anti-Semitic in context, advocating the transportation of the Jews out of Israel."
She made no such statement.

YES SHE DID!!
Guardian, "Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

Dave, you raised a false comparison.
Morris made an entirely innocuous statement but used an offensive word.
Shah used no offensive words but made anti-Semitic statements.

Rag,
Previously you posted "Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

If you state that you do not back Steve, I will gladly apologise to you.

Jim, we know she did not draw the maps, but what she said on the subject was racist.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Jul 17 - 03:09 AM

...and my point in raising it, which I am glad I did regardless of how often Keith says he bets I am not (twice up to now) was to compare the Naz Shah incident to Anne Marie Morris. The former made a stupid comment and was suspended. The latter made a stupid comment and was suspended. Neither had racist intentions but while that is no excuse, Keith is happy to accept that excuse from Morris. The biggest difference is that she is a Tory MP while Shah is Labour. MPs should be more careful. Mind you, Shah was not an MP or even in the public eye when she made her stupid remarks but they do fit in quite well with the agenda of trying to discredit the Labour party.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:58 PM

Its always nice to have backing, but on this occasion I can stand alone if I have to. All anyone has to do is to revisit Shah's Facebook post. It's there for all to see. This is what Keith said::

"Her statements were anti-Semitic in context, advocating the transportation of the Jews out of Israel."

She made no such statement. The above is Keith's interpretation of what he wanted her to have said. In other words, he lied. Go on, have a look. It's simple. She didn't say what Keith said she said. I'm not defending her. She was an idiot. An embarrassment. But all that has passed. She apologised and she has just doubled her majority. Perhaps Keith should leave leafy Hertford for a day or two and go up to ask the people of Bradford what they think. He might learn a few swear words. But we can't have a sensible discussion with Keith, ever, because he is pathologically determined to misrepresent what people say in order to fit his prejudices.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:56 PM

No comment Keith
So much for your concern for the Jewish People
Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:31 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM

"Rag,"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve.Hmm I don't think that anyone EVER suggested you did!"

Previously you posted "Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

I repeat I have never backed Steve on anything relevant to Naz Shah.

I will copy and paste another post by yourself:

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM

"Rag, so no-one claimed anything "about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve."That was just nonsense, as I said.I did suggest that you and Dave backed Steve.

IF YOU SAY YOU DO NOT I WILL APOLOGISE"


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 02:48 PM

Oh, and by the way, Keith, the joke map had the occupied West Bank in it. So much for "transporting Jews," eh? 😂


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:57 PM

Oops, that went before I'd finished checking it. Points made, however.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:56 PM

Point one. She did not say what you say she said. She referred to the relocation of Israel, not the transportation of Jews, as you said she did. You lied. You said what you wanted her to have said, just as you did with Wheatcroft with your vulgar and fraudulent. It's what you do.

Point two. The map in question was a map of the US with a lump in the middle of it the same size and shape as Israel. Funny that. That isn't a map of transported Jews. That is a map of a relocated Israel. It is a map of an impossible, whimsical situation. It is a joke. Personally I think it's a very unfunny joke in execrable bad taste. It was a map visualised by a Jewish man who was directly affected by the Holocaust, and he said it was a joke. It was a wrong joke to make in my view. But a joke it was. As the map depicted a ridiculously impossible situation, it was a joke map. The suggestion was not a serious suggestion as to what should happen. Naz Shah was foolish to reproduce it, though we could remember that she was a Muslim watching the vicious attacks on Gaza at the time she reproduced it. Not an excuse, a context.

Get real, Keith. It's over. You have a sick obsession with "Labour antisemitism," a distinctly rare beast, while you ignore the injustices meted out by your own side, including the Israeli regime and the Tories. You defended Johnson calling black children piccaninnies. Yiu sided with the xenophobic Farage in the referendum campaign. Yiu defend the vicious IDF attacks on Lebanon and Gaza. You deny the refugee camp massacres.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 01:14 PM

I think all accusations of Labour antisemitism have been made null and void by Israel's own support of Hungarian antisemitic propaganda
Jim Carroll

The Times Tuesday, July 11th
ISRAEL BACKS HUNGARY'S 'ANTISEMITIC' POSTER AGAINST SOROS AFTER U-TURN
ISRAEL
Gregg Carlstrom Tel Aviv

Binyamin Netanyahu has overruled his ambassador and backed the right-wing Hungarian government's campaign against the Jewish billionaire George Soros.
Official posters denouncing Mr Soros have been described by Hungary's main Jewish organisation as antisemitic. Yossi Amrani, Israel's ambassador in Budapest, urged Viktor Orban, the prime minister, to remove them.
"Beyond political criticism of a certain person, the campaign not only evokes sad memories but al¬so sows hatred and fear," Mr Amrani said in a statement.
His bosses in Israel initially en¬dorsed the call, but later issued a clarification, saying that the Hungarian-born financier threatened democracy by funding charities critical of Mr Netanyahu.
Mr Orban's government has repeatedly attacked Mr Soros and is trying to close down a liberal university that he set up and funded. It has accused him of trying to flood Europe with immigrants.
It has paid for billboards across the country denouncing Mr Soros as a threat to national security. "Let's not allow Soros to have the last laugh," reads one, next to a photo of the smiling banker. The head of Hungary's Jewish community said that the billboards were antisemitic, while Human
Rights Watch compared them to Nazi propaganda, which often featured "the laughing Jew".
Mr Orban wrote a letter to Jewish leaders last week saying: "My duty is to defend our homeland and citizens."
Israel is normally quick to condemn antisemitism, but this time the government distanced itself from the ambassador's comments. "In no way was the statement meant to delegitimise criticism of George Soros, who continuously undermines Israel's democratically elected govern¬ments by funding organisations that defame the Jewish state," Emmanuel Nachson, a spokesman for the foreign ministry, said.
Mr Netanyahu has not appointed a foreign minister and holds the post himself. He is scheduled to meet Mr Orban in Hungary next week.
Israel and Hungary have both passed legislation that seeks to limit the influence of liberal charities such as those Mr Soros funds.
Last month Mr Orban praised Miklos Horthy, a Second World War-era Hungarian leader, as an "exceptional statesman". Admiral Horthy was a Nazi ally who passed a series of anti-Jewish laws.
Again, Mr Amrani protested, this time on Hungarian television, and several leading Israeli politicians urged Mr Netanyahu to cancel his visit. But the foreign ministry said it was satisfied with Hungary's clarification?that Mr Orban was only praising the "positive periods" in his predecessor's history, not the "negative periods".
Israel used to follow local Jewish communities in deciding whether to meet parties with dubious pasts. It kept its distance from the National Front in France because Jewish leaders shunned the group.
But Mr Netanyahu and his government have sought to build ties with far-right factions across Europe, viewing them as useful diplomatic allies.
Last year, the head of Austria's Freedom Party spent a week in Israel on an official visit. The Israeli foreign ministry officially boycotts the party, which was founded in 1956 by former Nazis.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 12:42 PM

Steve,
So let's see. "Relocating Israel..." means the same as "transporting Jews out" now, does it?
Mad as a box o' frogs...


Who is?
That is what she said.
She did not mean the actual terrain!
She did not mean the Palestinian residents.
That only leaves the Jews!
That is why she admitted it was anti-Semitic.

"Labour MP Naz Shah has said the comments which saw her suspended from the party were anti-Semitic.
Ms Shah apologised in April for online posts, including one suggesting Israel should be moved to the United States."

"relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

So not mad at all Steve.
She said exactly what I said she did.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 12:24 PM

"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "
Which originated from Jewish writer, Norman Finkelstein - it was not her suggestion and the maps proveded were Finkelstein's not hers

"JEWISH AUTHOR WHOSE ISRAEL 'RELOCATION' MAP WAS SHARED BY NAZ SHAH CONDEMNS 'OBSCENE' LABOUR ANTISEMITISM ROW
Norman G Finkelstein accused politicians of making 'sick' Holocaust comparisons for political gain
During the Labour leadership contest Jeremy Corbyn said he was open-minded about voting reform and suggested the system used in Scotland might be extended to Westminster Reuters
The American political scientist who posted the diagram that triggered an antisemitism row in the Labour Party has dismissed the furore as "obscene".
Norman G Finkelstein, a Jewish author whose parents survived concentration camps during the Holocaust, said he published the map shared by Naz Shah on his blog in 2014.
Entitled "Solution for the Israel-Palestine conflict ? relocate Israel to into United States", it went up on his website on 4 August, the day before the future Bradford West MP shared it on her Facebook page.
Ms Shah has been suspended from Labour and quit two of her posts, while comments made by Ken Livingstone in her defence sparked a new row culminating in an independent review into antisemitism in the party.
Mr Finkelstein said he posted the map because he found it funny, claiming that such "jokes are commonplace in the US".
In an interview published by Open Democracy, he called comparisons to policies introduced by Holocaust organiser Adolf Eichmann "sick", saying the Facebook post could not be likened to his parents' experience of Nazi transportation.
"What are they doing? Don't they have any respect for the dead?" he said.
"All these desiccated Labour apparatchiks, dragging the Nazi holocaust through the mud for the sake of their petty jostling for power and position. Have they no shame?"
Mr Finkelstein, whose work including a book called The Holocaust Industry has met with controversy, also said Mr Livingstone was "more or less accurate" with his subsequent claims about Adolf Hitler.
"Let's remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel," said the former Mayor of London, who was also suspended from the Labour Party.
"He was supporting Zionism ? this before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews."
Analysts have said that although Hitler's government explored various "transfer agreements" before the Final Solution, it did not amount to supporting Zionism because the Nazis opposed the self-determination at the heart of the movement.
Mr Finkelstein called comparisons between the Israeli government and Nazis "gratuitous and a distraction" but said politicians should not be "crucified" over the issue.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews said the divisive author, who was banned from entering Israel for 10 years in 2008, does not represent "mainstream" views in the UK.
"He might think the map was funny but most Jews in this country think the very opposite," the group's communications officer, Simon Round, told The Independent.
"It might have been treated as some kind of joke but there are sensitivities there and the context is vital?it's not something that sits well."
Mr Finkelstein was also sceptical of Labour's antisemitism inquiry, arguing that finding a working definition of the term will be "impossible".
The UK-based Campaign Against Antisemitism told The Independent that being "anti-Zionist" is antisemetic.
"Zionism is the Jewish people's right to self-determination in Israel," a spokesperson said. "All people have the right to self-determination, so denying that right just to Jews is antisemitic."
The group said it was not antisemitic to oppose Israeli policies but cited "examples of hatred directed at Jewish people?disguised as political discourse".
But the Palestine Solidarity Campaign said there was a clear difference between antisemisim and anti-Zionism, calling the latter a "political ideology" that could be legitimately contested.
"While some seek to define Zionism as the right of Jewish people to self-determination, the Zionism of the Israeli state has resulted in the denial of basic human rights to Palestinians," a spokesperson said.
"To confuse ? whether deliberately or otherwise ? legitimate criticism of the Israeli government with antisemitism only serves to undermine the struggle against racism."
Ms Shah stood down from her post on the Home Affairs Select Committee as the row continued on Tuesday.
The committee is conducting the inquiry into antisemitism, which could see David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn among the prominent politicians giving evidence."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-row-naz-shah-israel-map-norman-finkelstein-obscene-a7012461.html

Jim Carroll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:45 AM

So let's see. "Relocating Israel..." means the same as "transporting Jews out" now, does it?

Mad as a box o' frogs...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 11:35 AM

Rag,
"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve.

Hmm I don't think that anyone EVER suggested you did!
Is that clear enough for you?
How do you come up with such random shit Rag?

Dave, you say you do not regret raising the Shah issue.
You should because it has made you and Steve both look ridiculous.
(Rag does it to himself!)

Steve Shaw,
"She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did."

BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Steve actually called me a liar for correctly reporting what she said!
He was wrong, and we were right, according to the Guardian and BBC and every other media organ that reported it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 06:26 AM

Like a spiral in a spiral
Like a wheel withing a wheel
Never ending or beginning
On an ever spinning reel...

:D tG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 06:10 AM

I posted:

"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post"

That's pretty clear.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:49 AM

Rag, so no-one claimed anything "about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve."
That was just nonsense, as I said.
I did suggest that you and Dave backed Steve.
If you say you do not I will apologise.

Dave,
Who are they then Dave?
Use your imagination, Keith. I am not going to spoon feed you.


My imagination has failed on this one.
Who are these people who also deny that Shah actually said what she, the Guardian and the BBC all say she did?
Spoon away.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 05:07 AM

"Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.
Hmmm I don't think anyone has suggested such nonsense Rag"

Have you forgotten your post:

"Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him"

Your post professor 14 June at 11.11 AM


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:26 AM

Who are they then Dave?

Use your imagination, Keith. I am not going to spoon feed you.

Now, as I said before, I am not going to go round in circles again. I have said my bit. You have said yours. People can make up their own minds. Unless you have anything new to add continuing is pointless.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 04:00 AM

Steve Shaw,
"She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did."

BBC,
"The graphic said relocating Israel would be a "solution to the Israel-Palestine conflict", and that it would allow Palestinians to "get their life and their land back". "

Steve was wrong, and we were right, according to the Guardian and BBC and every other media organ that reported it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Jul 17 - 03:53 AM

no-one who agrees with you.
Wrong. You lose again, Keith.


Who are they then Dave?

Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.

Hmmm I don't think anyone has suggested such nonsense Rag.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 02:01 PM

Hmm I don't think I have EVER posted on here about Naz Shah specifically backing Steve. If I have please find my post.

That not only makes you a liar (once again) but a loser !!

Sorry guys.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 01:30 PM

no-one who agrees with you.

Wrong. You lose again, Keith.

Hat trick! Well done.

:D tG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 01:27 PM

Steve Shaw,
She did not call for the transportation of Jews out of Israel as you claimed she did.

The Guardian,
"Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

I believe the Guardian, and every other broadcaster and publication that agreed.

How did they all get it wrong Steve?
How do you know better than them?
Where does you information come from Steve?

From your silly, empty head.
That is why you can find nothing and no-one who agrees with you.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 12:56 PM

Dave, in what sense have I lost.

Dave, I bet you do regret raising this again!

You lose your bet because I don't. Seemples.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 12:04 PM

The only thing we're in danger of losing is the will to live as you continue with your interminable, deluded prattle. You only ever read what you want to read so there is never any factual basis for having a sensible discussion with you. It's a serious character defect of yours. Good old Naz said sorry, moved on and whacked her Tory rival into oblivion in the election, getting one of the best majorities in the land. Those Bradfordians eat mardarses like you for breakfast. You're yesterday's man. The horse is dead. Why not curl up with a nice book (history, last 30 years, living author, bought from decent bookshop, natch). And a nice piece of cheese.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 11:11 AM

Rag,
Now that doesn't sound like someone has lost, does it.

Certainly not, loser.
I admire what she did.
She went out and found the truth and made amends for what she had said out of ignorance.
You four should do the same.

Dave, in what sense have I lost.
Hard evidence has been produced proving Steve to be wrong, and us, Bobad, Teribus and I, correct.
Guardian, "Labour MP Naz Shah admits to the Guido Fawkes blog she wrote a Facebook post arguing for Israel's population to be "transported" out of the Middle East to America."

Steve claimed that to be a lie, and you all backed him.
It was the truth.
You lose.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 10:25 AM

Dave, I bet you do regret raising this again!

Sorry
You lose.

Twice in one thread - Want to go for the hat trick?

Not been doing much cooking or culinary exploration lately but I have been having fun and games with the car. Ford C-Max. 162000 miles on the clock and been a belter. Trouble is it has an electronic parking brake and that has packed in. Will cost £00's to fix - More if I get a new one. So Just bought another C-Max as a stop gap until I go for something smaller when I retire. The new one is a bit older but has only done half the mileage. Trouble is, that also has an EPB but seeing as this one has only just gone I expect at least another 80,000 out of the new one :-) £1675 with a service and full MOT. Old one was a 1600. New one is 2 litre with a six speed box. Looking forward to getting it on the motorway.

DtG


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 07:39 AM

It will be cut in 16 pieces of 1 lb, I'll let my mates have some and freeze the rest, It freezes well.

That said I won't be buying any for a while !!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 07:26 AM

You'll have to plough your way through that at a rate of knots, won't you? I thought Stilton needed eating young. Last night in an eatery we discovered an amazingly good Cheddar-style cheese from Wales called Hafod. Clean, strong and tangy, beautiful texture in the mouth. It's organic and made in small quantities only from unpasteurised milk. Have you tried Stichelton? It's basically Stilton made with unpasteurised milk (which is why they can't actually call it Stilton). I reckon it's superior, but only if you can get it freshly-cut. Once cut it oxidises quite quickly and isn't so good. Another amazing blue is Bath Blue. Same consideration applies. Once it's starting to darken it's nowhere near at its best any longer.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:52 AM

Oh aye, tha doesn't get owt for nowt in Yorkshire, although I did buy a whole Colston Bassett Stilton ..... 7.5 kilos (or 16 Lbs) for next to nowt in the cheese auction.

That should keep me going for a while.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:43 AM

Did it cost owt?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:07 AM

We had a great day yesterday at the Great Yorkshire Show, I know it's in Yorkshire but it is VERY good.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:04 AM

"However, on 5 July 2016 her suspension was overturned and she was reinstated" (wikipedia)

Note professor: HER SUSPENSION WAS OVERTURNED AND SHE WAS REINSTATED.

Now that doesn't sound like someone has lost, does it. In fact she was returned at the 2017 election with an increased majority.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 17 - 06:01 AM

Now let me think: what should we have for tea tonight...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

 


This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 19 November 5:54 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.