BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 04:44 AM

"Better trade in your sandals for some hiking boots,"
Your Independent link was "not found" Iains - maybe it doesn't like your smug arrogance either!
Interesting to see you've abandoned your back-slapping thread - maybe you'll put up some real arguments instead of your usual insulting hit-and-run pronouncements this time, though you haven't started too well !!!
The Labour Party has been an echo of the Conservatives to one degree or another since the days of Wilson - 'New Labour' was an official announcement that it had cut itself off from its roots and abandoned all its principles
Having a potential war criminal like Blair at its head was a sign that it was prepared to adopt current Parliamentary standards.
There is little point to a Labour Party that echoes Tory Party policy - if that's what turns you on, you may as well vote Tory - they've been exploiting and conning the people for far longer.
Corbyn offered a return to the Labour principles that rebuilt Britain after the war and made the lot of all British people better - he won a majority for that policy despite massive internal attempts to sabotage his efforts (not to mention foreign interference in the shape of lying accusations of Antisemitism)
I have never been a supporter of Labour policy - my first opportunity to vote was for my Labour candidate, Harold Wilson - I did so in the hope that Labour would fight in Parliament for all people and not just the better off - any hope of that gradually eroded away and the Party became a crypto-Tory Party, either in office or in waiting, to a greater and greater degree - in essence, a one-party system of two parties fighting for the same thing.
The only hope for a future for any Labour Party is if it is prepared to become a genuine opposition to the status quo rather than a career-move for people with no interest in the well-being of all the British people - sort of like The Church or The Civil Service.
It is interesting to note what has happened to the Labour Party here in Ireland.
It broke it's back (literally) trying to get seats in The Dail, abandoned all its principles and in doing so, self-destructed at the last election - if the British Labour Party has any sense, it will take note of that lesson.
Luckily, over here, we have a P.R. system that enables the maintenance of some semblance of democracy rather than the first-past-the-post sham.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 05:45 AM

"I do not have to rely on opinions, the statistics speak for themselves."

Statistics never "speak for themselves." They require careful interpretation by a real live intelligent human being. So, in your case, better hope for the best and just let them speak for themselves. 😂

"What backs your argument? a couple of dusty tomes on the weeds you insist on babbling on about to make up your daily quota of postings?"

A weed is a plant in the wrong place. It gets in the way of and detracts from the worthwhile plants around it. A nuisance with no value. A total undesirable, fit only for the compost heap. Might even poison the whole crop. The best thing to do is to cut it down or remove it altogether.

You're a bit of a plant of that sort, aren't you?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:05 AM

Sorry Dave old chap but you are once again dancing around the question put to you but that is the little game of misrepresentation the pack plays so well, isn't it. Anyway I shall not keep you from your terpsichorean diversions any longer so dance on my friend, my point has been made.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:07 AM

This today from Dan Hodges:

"the idea that once Corbyn goes, Labour's problems go with him. The shadow Shadow Cabinet – Chuka Umunna, Dan Jarvis, Lisa Nandy, Clive Lewis, Yvette Cooper – are now playing an elaborate game of Ring A Ring O' Roses. Just hide and wait and pray for the plague to pass.

There is no evidence it will. On Friday the extent of the Parliamentary Labour Party's reaction to the Copeland catastrophe was a series of hand-wringing statements that 'the country needs Labour'.

But that is the point. The country has decided it doesn't. Voters see a party that has no coherent policy on Brexit. That has not had a coherent economic or fiscal policy for decades, and as a result has no coherent policy on public service provision. That adopts stances on defence, law and order and immigration that are not just incoherent, but overtly provocative.

And the country has decided something else.

Until Friday morning, Labour MPs believed that they had one thing to fall back on – their Northern safe zone.

Time and again I have been told: 'People in my area hate Corbyn but they hate the Tories even more. Ukip might be a problem. But they won't vote Conservative.'

Northern voters will vote Conservative. Corbyn has not just helped complete the toxification of the Labour brand, he has also begun the process of detoxifying the Tory brand, a process the Prime Minister fully intends to finish.

The virus is not on the doorstep, but is coursing through Labour's system. There is no antidote. There is no cure."

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:13 AM

Dave,
Keith is not denying that he thinks British Pakistanis are culturally implanted to rape underage girls.

I think no such thing Dave.
I do think that we are all implanted to an extent by our culture.
Your view?
I do note that a lot of very credible people ascribe the over-representation of one demographic to the culture, and when that was the only theory around I believed them.
Did you not believe them? Why not?

But you and I discussed all that in 2011.
Why rehash it now Dave?
Just to be one of the gang?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:30 AM

Ah yes. The Dan Hodges who's in and out of Labour like a yo-yo, who voted for Boris for mayor even when he was in the party, who never misses an opportunity to undermine Corbyn (he supported Yvette Cooper in the leadership election! 😂), who writes for such enlightened organs as the Spectator, the Telegraph and the Mail On Sunday, the archetypal Blairite who ran near-naked through Westminster after losing a bet. That Dan Hodges. Your kind of man, eh, Teribus!😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:32 AM

This thread seem to be moving out of this never-ending circle of denials Keith
Please don't wreck it with more.
"Dan Hodges" is writing in The Daily Mail, a newspaper which, along with several other Tory mouthpieces, has set out to wreck any efforts to introduce principled politics into the Labour Party from day one.
What else is he going to write.
Nobody knows how Corbyn's objectives are regarded as a whole by the British people - they've hardly been debated openly in the press - certainly not in bumwipes like the Daily Mail and The Times.
The malaise of cynical disinterest in British politics is now a permanent reality; what the "people think" is now a convenient slogan for those who are happy to keep things as they are.
It remains to be seen whether the North will vote Conservative - the Tories haven't made much headway in Scotland and Brexit has not only made the future uncertain for the British economy, but it still stands to see off both Scotland and Northern Ireland leave the Union - a breakup Britain.
It is already doing massive damage to the Peace Process in the North - yet more violence in the offing
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:33 AM

Yes, that's correct Teribus, The Labour Party have no longer a constituency......and the fault lies with the M P's, they have alienated what was left of their core vote by cosying up to the media and ignoring the debris of industrial re-organisation......they have lost the grass roots, who just like in America, feel no connection to a well off "liberal" elite preaching social equality.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:33 AM

Coooeee, your fetid imagination is working overtime again the is no "gang" or "little gang" or "clique" or "mob" It's all in your head.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:34 AM

well its ten years since I was in Boston, but what people were saying is that there was no point in reporting crimes because the police never did anything.   they were overwhelmed, but of course its like in education - no one ever admits to a problem - because the bosses always turn it round and say that's cos your crap at your job. Its an easy out.   far easier to say to say theres no problem.

Before you keep ballsing on about everybody I talked to being a racist, dave. has it ever occurred to you to go to the town where they had the highest turnout in favour of Brexit in the country.

Just go there. tell them they're all talking bollocks.

This bloody finger pointing and casting the first stone is SO easy on mudcat. And it has buggered up this once wonderful site. Certainly it has made rational debate - in this case on a subject I care deeply about - the party I have voted for all my life totally impossible. Self righteous hypocrites have turned this once wonderful crossroads into a wasteland.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:34 AM

Dave, in this post you suggest that the over-representation might be due to the cultural attitude to females.
Same as me then.

Dave the Gnome - PM
Date: 01 Apr 11 - 04:44 PM

At the risk of becoming tarred as a Muslim hating racist I came across this article by Khaled Diab, a Brussels based Egyptian (I think) journalist who often contributes to that bastion of right wing hatred, The Guardian.

I found it interesting that the piece states quite clearly -

So, which Arabs have the most negative views of western women? Well, probably those from the most conservative societies. "From my personal experience, the worst Arab men I found were the ones from Saudi Arabia," a journalist with a leading Portuguese newspaper told me. "They think that all foreign women are prostitutes and they try to treat them like that."

Maybe this goes some way to expaining the over representation of certain people in this crime? Maybe it doesn't. Maybe just by saying that any group leans towards any sort of poor attitude I am showing my obviously right wing, racist attitudes. Or maybe I am just saying that some people have the wrong idea and need to be educated. How should I know? I am pretty sure reading most posters on this thread won't educate me...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:47 AM

Jim, what is your verdict on Dave?

"Maybe just by saying that any group leans towards any sort of poor attitude I am showing my obviously right wing, racist attitudes."

Is that your view of him Jim?


Maybe this goes some way to expaining the over representation of certain people in this crime?

So he, like me, is prepared to accept that they might be doing it because of their culture.

We are all implanted by our culture, so his views were identical to mine on this.

Why have you not been hounding him over that for the last six years as you have me Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:07 AM

Interesting post of Dave's, from six years ago, you came up with Keith. I thought I remembered him as being a reasonable sort before he started running with the pack. Just goes to show the susceptibility of some to peer pressure.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:09 AM

Ain't no "pack" either.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:42 AM

"Jim, what is your verdict on Dave?"
I've suggested you let this thread move off this circular argument - you wish to continue use it to promote your racism
I certainly have no intention of participating in your spiteful attempt to pit one member against another
Take your disgusting behaviour elsewhere
You really are the pits
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:49 AM

Touché, Keith!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:01 AM

"Touché, Keith!"
Never mind Keith - toy have the God of the Trolls on your side
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:36 AM

Jim, you decided to dredge this thing up.
You hoped to discredit me with it.
Even with your whole gang helping you failed.
Even though the mods allowed it to run to a conclusion, you failed.
You had to lie to make a case against me.

Dave and I both recognised the over representation.
Dave and I both said it could be the culture that makes them do it.
No-one denies that we are all implanted to an extent by ur culture.
You have no case against me.

I hope you have learned the lesson and will not make these tired old false accusations against me again.
You lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 10:11 AM

Believe me, Keith, you don't need anyone else other than your good self to discredit you, though your own pack/mafia/gang/coterie/co-conspirators/mob/team/clique/faction/set/cabal do a damn good job too.

Coo, "cabal." Now why didn't I think of that one before!

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 10:23 AM

"You lose."
Two peaple decide 300 criminals in Britain prove an over-representation from a statment of someone referring to the situation in Saudi Arabia.
You sad, sick man
Not that it is important, Khaled Diab is a pro-Israeli blogger campaigning to persuade the Palestinians not to press their demands on land return or the return of Exiles to their homes.
NOT SOMEONE I WOULD WISH TO CONSULT ABOUT BRITISH MUSLIMS !!
For christ's sake Keith - end this nonsense before you humilaite yourself even further.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 10:42 AM

Frankly professor the only loser on here is yourself, a pathetic racist, bigoted little nobody.

I should feel sorry for you, don't I can't raise that much interest in your childlike postings.

You really are a sad little man.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 11:05 AM

"Nobody knows how Corbyn's objectives are regarded as a whole by the British people - they've hardly been debated openly in the press - certainly not in bumwipes like the Daily Mail and The Times." - Jim Carroll

From Dan Hodges again (Same article) how Labour were regarded by the electorate in Copeland:

"In Copeland, Labour suffered what respected BBC analyst John Curtice said was the worst result for an Opposition 'in the whole history of post-war British by- elections'. Which, if anything, understates the scale of the defeat.

Faced with the possible closure of a local maternity unit, Labour distributed leaflets warning that if voters didn't back Corbyn's party they would die. The people of Copeland opted for death.

You just couldn't get a clearer demonstration Labour having held the seat for how long??

Note once again Shaw and Carroll attack the messenger they do not address the message.

The Conservatives have made no impact North of the Border?? Are you serious Jim?? They have made so much ground that they now are the main opposition Party North of the Border.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 11:25 AM

So far, as far as I can see, the only people who have really shown themselves up on this thread have been Steve Shaw and Jim Carroll who have both been exposed as liars guilty of baseless smears who when offered clear evidence they persist in their lies and falsehoods.

Meanwhile Raggy the little hyena-like lightweight hanger on chips in with nothing of any consequence, bleating about there being no gang while timing his pointless interjections in support of his "mates" to demonstrate that clearly there is a "gang" or even a "cabal" Shaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 11:55 AM

Credit where it is due Terrikins, you have supported a dishonest racist, bigot at every opportunity.

This obviously says as much as about you as it says about him.

I honestly dislike this phrase but I relucantly will use it anyway ..... .... you l....

Nah can't be bothered

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 12:03 PM

300 criminals in Britain prove an over-representation

In the particular crime of on-street grooming there is a massive over-representation of one demographic.
That is a fact Jim.

Guardian,
"Because a disproportionate number of them are British Pakistani – just like me."
So there is an over-representation.

Guardian,
"of the 68 recent convictions involving child sexual exploitation, 59 were of British Pakistani men,"
They are less than 2% 0f the population, so the over-representation is massive.

Dave and I were right and you are wrong Jim.
You lose.
Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 12:05 PM

" you have supported a dishonest racist, bigot at every opportunity." - Raggy

Now then Raggy if you are going to spout such bile you must have substantive grounds for saying things. "Dishonest" how, where show us all. "Racist" where? show us examples. "Bigot" in what way bigoted show us clear examples? You have decided not to do so, primarily because you can't. You know that, I know that, damn near everybody who reads this forum knows so your last post is just another in a long line of meaningless, baseless accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 12:20 PM

"From Dan Hodges again (Same article)"
Would that be the Dan Hodges who is writing for the 'progressive' Daily Mail?
As I said, there is little reason to support two Tory Parties - if Labour doesn't return to being a principled party there has no reason to exist and Britain will remain a one-party State.
Not even the best friend of the present system would describe it as health as far as the British People as a whole are concerned.
To judge the importance of a nation party on the result of a bye Election is insane.
Perhaps the Tory Party should abandon any effort to win seats in Scotland and save time and money!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 12:30 PM

ANOTHER VIEW
"You lose."
Utterly mindless
"Dave and I were right "
Equally mindless in trying to set one member against another
What were you saying about not dragging years old statement up
Dave seems to have recanted his support for that view - you continue with your racism
Attempting to set one member against another in the way you regguarly do is an example of your ruthless fanaticism
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 12:53 PM

The Guardian article you "quoted" from professor also stated quite clearly that 95% of people on the Manchester Sex Offenders Register were WHITE.

The Asian population of Manchester is 6.5%

Understanding from YOUR quoted article the Asian population, together with the Afro Carribean and Oriental population make up 5% of offenders.

What reason can you give us for the over-represented number of WHITE offenders.

I shall look forward to your prevarication.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 01:03 PM

Raggytash, I think you will find that Keith was addressing the singular crime of street grooming and associated abuse of minors.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 01:12 PM

okay chapter and verse.

10 years ago, an old school friend invited me back for a meal. he'd never left our hometown , Boston, Lincs. as a surprise he invited two of my old classmates, and their wives.

during the evening everyone asked me about where i lived and everyone - all boston residents said that their lives had been adversely affected by the influx of east european tmmigrants. mainly just women who were working desk jobs where they got treated rudely, no longer felt the streets and public areas were safe or pleasant.

it transpired one of those friends ran a quid shop on t'the green'. a market area in boston, which has never been green, but that's what its called. i sad okay, before i go home tomorrow - i'll check out your shop.

so the next day i called in and bought some things, and we were standing on the market area talking to our shopkeeper friend, before driving home.

whist we were standing there, three or four young very tall and rather strangely dressed young men ran into the shop.   i asked who they were.. i was told they were eastern european looters. how he divined they were easter european, i have no idea. perhaps he knew them previously.

i said, call the police. iwas told there was no point in doing so. it was a quid shop. they could take what they wanted. he was not going to risk his staff by resisting , or presumably reprisal.

i was upset - it was a town my dad had policed for twenty five years. does it sound to you as though the influx of eastern europeans had adversely affected the situation.

it pissed me off at the time to have my simple anecdote labelled as racist. however what pisses me off even more is that bloody abuse is still going on, and it's just vandalism of a noble enterprise like mudcat.

to characterise Farage's scrupulous adherence to democratic process over 25 years to attempt stop the EU looting the british economy as 'the tramp of nazi jackboots'....it precludes sensible debate.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 01:13 PM

You really have found a friend in Dan Hodges, haven't you, Teribus? Don't shoot the messenger? What if "Messenger Dan," a Blairite to the core (the sort of person you've relentlessly denigrated for years here) is a complete flip-flopping twit? Maybe you should sign him up to your cabal! 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 01:16 PM

I do note that a lot of very credible people ascribe the over-representation of one demographic to the culture

I agree Keith and I agree with the point made by Khaled Diab but treating women as prostitutes does not equate to grooming young girls nor was the demographic mentioned British Pakistani. They were Saudi Arabians. But, as I keep saying and as you keep misinterpreting, there are other and equally valid reasons for any over-representation. And no, Jim. I have not 'recanted' because I always said there were many factors. I just believe that the over-representation, if indeed there is such a thing, is very complex and I will not rule out any of factor until disproven. Unlike Keith who rules out all but the cultural implant one.

Al, I have made my point to Bobad. There is no point in continuing that discussion any further. What I will say to you is that you said was People in my home county Lincolnshire are very. upset at the influx of Eastern Europeans, and the lawlessness they have bought to towns like Boston. There is very strong evidence that an influx of east Europeans does not cause a crime wave so, sorry, the good people of Lincolnshire are are mistaken. Did you read the article I linked?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 01:47 PM

"but treating women as prostitutes does not equate to grooming young girls"
Nor does what happens in saudi Arabia apply to British Moslems Dave
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 02:10 PM

"What if "Messenger Dan," a Blairite to the core (the sort of person you've relentlessly denigrated for years here) is a complete flip-flopping twit?" - Shaw

Well if he WAS a twit Shaw it would be ever so easy for someone of your self-proclaimed education and intelligence to refute or disprove what said "Messenger Dan" says. But you can't do that can you Shaw? And I would guess that in being in a position to comment and observe what is going on "Messenger Dan" is far better informed and clued up than some loutish, posturing liar down in Cornwall.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 02:48 PM

Ake, please allow the professor to answer for himself.

The very article he "quoted" from stated very clearly that 95% of people on the Sex Offenders Register in Manchester are WHITE.

Given that the Asian population of Manchester is 6.5%, they together with the Afro Caribbean and Oriental population still only make up 5% of people on the Sex Offenders Register.

Thus the white population is, to use his term, over represented in the figure.

I ask again professor how do you account for this.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 02:57 PM

""Messenger Dan" is far better informed and clued up than some loutish, posturing liar down in Cornwall."
Youve just said that the press all tell lies and support the establishment and it was fine by you if Trump banned them all from White House news conferences
Make up your fucking mind you mad fascist
You really are the Full Monty as far as right wing extremism goes
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 03:19 PM

Polls show Labour Party would win only 190 seats at general election – the worst performance since 1935

Britain's top pollster, Professor John Curtice, crunches the stats to forecast the Labour leader's fortunes in 2020.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-jeremy-corbyn-polls-general-election-performance-1935-worst-80-years-a73333

There you are jimmy and steve. Notice shaw the man interpreting the statistics is a professor.I have a bit more confidence in what he has to say than your pathetic warblings.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Iains
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 03:24 PM

Link maker not working in this instance.
: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-jeremy-corbyn-polls-general-election-performance-1935-worst-80-years-a73333

I assume arrogant was the next word out of the idea box after insecure.
If you want to insult people each time you post jimmy try and ring the changes.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 04:29 PM

right! the guardian thinks everyone in boston are all subject to racist delusions regarding their situation. you agree with them.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 05:09 PM

right! the guardian thinks everyone in boston are all subject to racist delusions regarding their situation. you agree with them.

Not at all, Al. As you seem to have some trouble with comprehension I shall repeat the point I made before. Absolutely fuck all to do with the Guardian apart from they reported it.

"A survey carried out by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) in 2008 found no evidence for suggestions that eastern Europeans were responsible for any crime wave. Peter Fahy, the chief constable who co-authored the report, noted that "you get misunderstandings, you get rumours"."


Now do you get it? The police themselves say that east Europeans are not responsible for any crime wave your fellow countymen see.

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 05:29 PM

"Britain's top pollster," eh?   Bwahahaha! Now there's an admirable profession, going from poll forecasts in recent years. If you really want to appeal to authority, do make sure that you choose an authority worth appealing to!😂

By the way, any chance of telling us who decided that he was "Britain's top pollster?" 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 05:57 PM

Don't sweat it Al, he's talking from pure ignorance of the situation in Boston. The source he is referencing refers to the overall crime rate in the UK - apples and oranges and the usual misrepresentation from the usual suspects in order to smear good people.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 06:35 PM

why would you disbelieve me and believe some police chief who may have any number of reasons - budgetary or political toadying etc. - to lie?

what right did you have to say my story was told for reasons of racism?

have you any concept of how offensive that was?

the trouble is that in the inflated language that you people have bought to this forum, such insults are the lingua franca.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 06:56 PM

"Britain's top pollster, Professor John Curtice, crunches the stats to forecast the Labour leader's fortunes in 2020."
John Curtice also points out the other factors involved in the election results, including Corbyn's opposition to the Nuclear programme which would have an effect of Copeland.
He comments that this would not necessarily be a factor in other parts of Britain.
"There you are jimmy and steve."
Try not to talk to people and remember you are a mental midget Iaians
People with far more knowledge and experience have had their fingers burned on this forum by forgetting their place.
You really are an obnoxiously smug bastard, aren't you - what a pity your contributions don't live up to your posturing - especially regarding your supporst for a mass murder and torturer.
Christ - what a team - racists, fascists and moronic bullies who think they know more than anyone else after five minutes posting.
Can we just make something clear Dave, despite Keith's protestations, hei claims of "over-representation are just the icing on the cake.
His main claim to fane is "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani MUSLIMS have a culturally implanted tendency"
However the 300 odd criminals "over-representing" the Muslim population pans out, that id the one that takes the most Oscars for all time best racist statements
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 07:51 PM

They're the cabal, Jim, not a team. I'm watching a real team on telly tomorrow night, Liverpool FC. This lot are not a team. Teams support each other. This lot sit with buttocks clenched in embarrassment as other members of their squad make fools of themselves. You hardly ever see them supporting each other and when they do it's desperate stuff. Have you signed up Dan yet, Teribus? 😂

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 08:39 PM

In the meantime, the sad news that Gerald Kaufman has passed away. Hardly the biggest leftie ever in Labour, but a great fighter for the less-privileged and a solid Labour man of principle through thick and thin.

From the Beeb.

Sir Gerald Kaufman, Labour MP for Manchester Gorton and Father of the House of Commons, has died aged 86.

■   Obituary: Gerald Kaufman

Sir Gerald became an MP in north-west England in 1970, first for the Manchester Ardwick constituency and then for Manchester Gorton, which he had served since 1983.
He was a junior minister between 1974 and 1979, and held a number of senior shadow cabinet posts through the 1980s, before returning to the backbenches in the early 1990s.

Sir Gerald was a member of the Jewish Labour Movement and was known for his criticism of Israel, calling senior politicians from the country "war criminals" in 2002.
Mr Corbyn said: "Gerald came from a proud Jewish background. He always wanted to bring peace to the Middle East and it was my pleasure to travel with him to many countries.
"He loved life and politics. I will deeply miss him, both for his political commitment and constant friendship."
Shadow chancellor John McDonnell tweeted: "Sad to hear of Gerald Kaufman's death. He was a tremendously dedicated servant of his constituency and our party. A man of absolute principle."
And Commons Speaker John Bercow called him an "outstanding representative" and a "passionate campaigner for social justice, here in Britain and around the world"

He was a Jewish Labour MP who hated what the Israeli regime were visiting on ordinary Jewish people in Israel and had he been here he would have cheerfully demolished the dismal, bigoted politics of the likes of Keith and bobad whose attitude is typical of those who perpetuate insecurity via discrimination in the region. He was measured, witty and consistent. A good old boy in most regards.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 26 Feb 17 - 09:40 PM

Poor old Kaufman, RIP, it seems like he hasn't been in control of his mental faculties for quite some time now, senility is a dreadful disease.

Veteran Labour MP Sir Gerald Kaufman has accused Israel of fabricating the recent knife attacks in the country and claimed the Conservative Party has been influenced by "Jewish money".

Sir Gerald caused controversy earlier this year when he said that Israel uses the Holocaust to justify murdering Palestinians.

In 2011 he apologised after greeting fellow Jewish MP Louise Ellman by muttering "here we are, the Jews again" when she rose to speak in the Commons.

A Labour Party spokesman said: "The views as reported do not reflect the views of the party."

John Mann, Labour MP for Bassetlaw and chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group Against Antisemitism, said: "These are the incoherent ramblings of an ill-informed demagogue."

Labour MP Ruth Smeeth, vice chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group Against Antisemitism, echoed the call for action to be taken by the party. She said: "I think that these are not just unfortunate, but these are disgraceful remarks from the Father of the House and they cannot go unanswered."

Louise Ellman, Labour MP for Liverpool Riverside, said: "These are despicable statements which support antisemitic conspiracy theories, and Gerald should withdraw them immediately."

Mark Gardner, director of communications at the Community Security Trust, said: "The language invites antisemitic interpretation about Jews, money and controlling politicians; and the belated hand wringing from others in the room is meaningless if they did not actually protest when the remarks were made."

Board of Deputies president Jonathan Arkush said: "We condemn Sir Gerald's outrageous comments.

"We also invite the Labour Party to initiate disciplinary proceedings to investigate his disgraceful words."

The Jewish Chronicle

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Feb 17 - 01:38 AM

Jim Carroll - 26 Feb 17 - 02:57 PM

""Messenger Dan" is far better informed and clued up than some loutish, posturing liar down in Cornwall." - a quote from one of my posts (Teribus)

Which elicited this from poor old confused and frothed up Jim:

"You've just said that the press all tell lies and support the establishment and it was fine by you if Trump banned them all from White House news conferences

Make up your fucking mind you mad fascist"

Never said anything of the sort Jim - If you think I have then please feel free to quote the post of mine where I have stated that. I have made no comment at all regarding Trump banning the press from the White House. Yet more baseless Jim Carroll "Made-Up-Shit", it would appear that you are inveterate liar to whom the truth is a complete and utter stranger.

Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 27 Feb 17 - 01:42 AM

,I>"A survey carried out by the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) in 2008 found no evidence" - DtG

2008!!! that is nine years ago Gnome - a great deal has changed since then.