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BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II

Steve Shaw 27 Mar 17 - 09:39 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 03:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Mar 17 - 04:20 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Mar 17 - 04:25 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 04:45 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 04:49 AM
Dave the Gnome 28 Mar 17 - 05:52 AM
Raggytash 28 Mar 17 - 11:15 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Mar 17 - 11:19 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 11:36 AM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Mar 17 - 12:50 PM
Keith A of Hertford 28 Mar 17 - 12:54 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 12:59 PM
Raggytash 28 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 02:33 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Mar 17 - 02:49 PM
Teribus 29 Mar 17 - 02:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 29 Mar 17 - 03:14 AM
Dave the Gnome 29 Mar 17 - 03:22 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 17 - 04:22 AM
Keith A of Hertford 29 Mar 17 - 05:18 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 17 - 05:23 AM
Teribus 29 Mar 17 - 02:01 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 17 - 02:27 PM
Keith A of Hertford 29 Mar 17 - 03:06 PM
Jim Carroll 29 Mar 17 - 03:40 PM
Teribus 29 Mar 17 - 10:59 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Mar 17 - 04:16 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 05:25 AM
Teribus 30 Mar 17 - 05:58 AM
Teribus 30 Mar 17 - 06:43 AM
akenaton 30 Mar 17 - 07:01 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 07:04 AM
akenaton 30 Mar 17 - 07:11 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 07:31 AM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Mar 17 - 08:02 AM
Teribus 30 Mar 17 - 09:03 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 09:12 AM
bobad 30 Mar 17 - 09:28 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 09:36 AM
bobad 30 Mar 17 - 10:00 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 11:08 AM
Teribus 30 Mar 17 - 11:43 AM
Raggytash 30 Mar 17 - 11:50 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Mar 17 - 01:30 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Mar 17 - 01:33 PM
Steve Shaw 30 Mar 17 - 01:34 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM
akenaton 30 Mar 17 - 02:18 PM
Dave the Gnome 30 Mar 17 - 02:46 PM
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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 27 Mar 17 - 09:39 PM

Total bollocks. Total football. Johann Cruyff. Let's all get total!

Jaysus, Bill, go to bed. We don't want you waking up dead in the morning. I'm off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 03:44 AM

"There is no reference to date 29th February 2012, "
The date is there, if you bothered to read the posts that were put up, a larger version of the article was included - what you obviously picked up on was my reaping the statement in response to Keith suggesting that putting up signs would lesd to police action - the repeat and your cut-'n-paste are both in quotation marks - has nobody ever explained what they mean?
"25 Mar 17 - 02:36 PM "
I put up a whole series of examples of these signs being referred to
No - I didn't link to any of the quotes on that occasion - but they are all there and totally ignored by you pair of racists - Kieth has refused even to acknowledge they exist.
All are perfectly traceable - I thought i had linked to them all as I usually do.
As you refuse you qualify any of your statements, produce no links whatever and just make things up on the spot, you have little grounds fro complaint.
Now - you have the statement, you have another photograph and you now hane dozens of examples - here an on previous threads, of these signs
Ihave plenty of personal experiences of police behaviour towards the Travellers - thirty years worth.
"Five effin' years ago"
This argument has been going on for a few years - Keith is claiming that these signs are rare because he has never seen one.
J D Weatherspoon's was successfully sued by Travellers less than two years ago
I didn't realise that there was a statute of limitations on this discussion
Signs against Travellers, beggars and itinerants are part of a long history going back centuries and they continue - and your name-calling arrogance proves only that you are a bullshitter with no evidence to show they don't.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 04:20 AM

Jim, that piece was written by Conn Mac Gabhann, Manager of the traveller project at the Irish Chaplaincy in Britain.

He would be highly aware of discrimination issues involving Trvellers, and must have been working with them for some time.

He found a sign in one back street London pub and expressed surprise to see such a thing. He had clearly never seen one before, and in the absence of a more recent outburst he has not seen one since.

That proves beyond any shadow of doubt that the signs are an extreme rarity, and not "commom throughout Britain" as you claim.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 04:25 AM

Dave,
How do you think Labour will do Dave?
Why ask me? Do I look like a pollster?


I do not know what you or pollsters look like.
I do know that you take an interest in such things, as witness this discussion, and thought you might have formed an opinion on Labour's
current popularity.

Leading opposition parties usually do well in such elections, but I fear that Labour this time will not.
That is my non pollster's opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 04:45 AM

"He would be highly aware of discrimination issues involving Trvellers, and must have been working with them for some time."
In other words he knew what he was talking about because he knew Travellers and worked with them
You do neither and you don't see the signs - I wonder why!!
This is the first time you have responded to a single piece of evidence on this subject, and that is to dismiss it out of hand
You have no comment that despite your claims that anybody putting up signs would be "in a heap of trouble" - the police did nothing
You are making unqualified assumptions on one case and still refusing to comment on the rest
You area a racist, you have always been a racist and you always will be a racist
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 04:49 AM

"That's what I thought. Or really, what I thought was that nobody, even if they were racist, would be stupid enough to erect signs like that and attract the attention of the police.
I was wrong. And I was wrong on two counts. Firstly, because there are people stupid enough to put up the signs. Secondly, because I assumed that the police and the CPS would pursue these people under race relations legislation."
From the same article


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 05:52 AM

I do know that you take an interest in such things, as witness this discussion

A passing interest. No more. Far more interested in things that matter like food, drink and the beauty all around us than in discussing politics with people who will never agree and who speak a different language.

:D tG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 11:15 AM

Butter Pie for us tonight, a recipe I learnt from my Grandmother.

Thinly slice and softly cook onions, par boil sliced potatoes and when cool layer them up on a pastry base, potatoes, onions, salt pepper, butter, potatoes, onions, salt, pepper, butter and finally potatoes, cover with a crust and bake.

Grandmother did it because it was cheap, I do it because I love it.

I suppose the addition of a touch of cream or creme fraiche could enhance it but my Grandmother was a fantastic cook and if the original was good enough for her it's good enough for me.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 11:19 AM

Jim,
"He would be highly aware of discrimination issues involving Trvellers, and must have been working with them for some time."
In other words he knew what he was talking about because he knew Travellers and worked with them


Yes, and in all his life he only saw one sign.
Conclusive proof that they are not "common throughout Britain!"
Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 11:36 AM

"Yes, and in all his life he only saw one sign."
Does he say that - must have missed that one.
You have had masses of information and you nit-pick on someone who reportd seeing a sign to the police who, contrary to your excuse, did nothing bout it.
Your only defence of these signs is that yo have never seen one - pathetic even by your pathetic standards.
The longer you continue defending these signs, the more you confirm both your racism and your dishonesty in claiming you are not defending them
You lie whan you claim you are not doubting their existence - what is this if it is not casting doubt on their existence "If they exist at all"
Or comparing them to malarial mosquito
This is the second thread on which you have defended this racist shit - you produced nothing but "I haven't seen one in the past and you have produced nothing now
Face it Keith - you are a bigoted racist and one sick cookie
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 12:50 PM

"Yes, and in all his life he only saw one sign."
Does he say that - must have missed that one.


You missed this.
"You couldn't get away with putting up signs like that now.
That's what I thought." ....until he saw that sign.
That makes it clear and obvious he had not seen one before.

You have provided conclusive proof that such signs are not "common throughout Britain" as you stated.
Thanks again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 12:54 PM

He goes on to say,
"I was surprised that in multi-cultural London a sign like that could remain in the open for some time"

It is not his experience that "No Traveller signs are common throughout Britain."

He was "surprised" to see one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 12:59 PM

"That makes it clear and obvious he had not seen one before.!No it does not
He is a prison chaplain for Travellers - he is bound to be aware of them
He merely expresses his surprise to see one openly displayed in central London now thet=y are illegal - a relatively new thing
Nowhere does he say he has never seen one - you made that up
Your whole defence of these has been a confused string of lies from start to finish
You say you are not denying that they existed yoe you write
"How can they be common if no-one has ever seen them except a well known Mudcat liar?"
If you don't deny them why accuse me of making them up?
You are a squalid racist Keith - Travellers are only one of your targets.
Nasty little man
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM

I refer you to signs saying "NO HOBBY CARAVANS"

Thankfully today people would be prosecuted if they displayed a sign saying "NO TRAVELLERS" although given that the CPS choose not to prosecute in the case cited by Jim that is not guarenteed.

Simply saying "NO HOBBY CARAVANS" is sufficient to deter travellers from trying to use a site but stays within the law.

Same meaning just different wording.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 02:33 PM

The tricjk has become 'Travellers by appointment only" THere's a sign saying this to the notes of our Traveller CD on Musical Traditions)
Another is not to refuse them entry but to ignore then when they try to buy a drink
In Bristol, they put the signs inside the bar so they can't be sptted outside
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 02:49 PM

Whatneeds to be remembered here is that because of the acute shortage of stopping places in Britain most Travellers live on the fringes of the law and rely on keeping a low profile because they are forced to camp illegally.
It is highly unlikely that Travellers will report discriminating pub landlords to the police for fear of drawing attention to themselves being stopped illegally - it is this that maked the Weatherspoon's case both unique and groundbreaking
Pretending that these notices don't exist really have repercussions far beyond being refused service.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:22 AM

Keeping a low profile and not drawing police attention to yourself also becomes quite essential when you are engaged in human trafficking and slavery too Jim.

By the way Jim, if you put those signs up on your CD cover doesn't that make you as guilty as the landlord?

If the sign "Travellers Strictly by appointment" did not result in a prosecution by the CPS then it surely cannot be illegal. It is still the right of the Licencee to serve who he wishes to serve as he/she and he/she alone is responsible for his/her "house" being orderly.

I think the only signs ever seen restricting who could go into a pub concerned people wearing "team colours". Never ever seen one concerning Travellers - so not so common at all then Jim, and Keith's logic in relation the Traveller's priest is flawless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 03:14 AM

Jim,
Nowhere does he say he has never seen one - you made that up

It is ludicrous to suggest he had seen other examples and not mentioned it in that article.

If they really were "common throughout Britain" we who live here would have seen one.
We still haven't.

Rag, I doubt that travellers haul their caravans behind them to the pub.
"Hobby" is just a large German manufacturer of large caravans. Your signs refer to sites. Recreational sites are not all suitable as stopping places for travellers who will often want to run their businesses from the site.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 03:22 AM

If the sign "Travellers Strictly by appointment" did not result in a prosecution by the CPS then it surely cannot be illegal.

The CPS can decide not to prosecute for any number of reasons as I am sure you know.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:22 AM

You are making a meal of this Keith and refusing to respond to all the other articles -proof enough of your obsessive and dishonest hatred campaign in support of one of the most common forms of prejudice againt Travellers
Your mate joins you in attempting to smear Travellers with the actions of one criminal Traveller family
AArguing with you pair conjures up a pictire of hooded man and burning crosses.
Youa are a pair of blatant racists - and people with some authority on the forum wonder why I argue with you!!
The pair of you make me sick
Jim Carroll
This - from a review of our double album of Traveller songs by Geoff Wallis, issued bu Musical Traditions - the review is sitll available on their site

"It may be 2003, but the window of a pub just a couple of hundred yards from my front door still carries the sign 'Travellers by Appointment Only' and they don't mean salespeople from the snacks industry. In many other ways, however, the lives of Irish travellers in England have changed substantially since Jim Carroll and Pat Mackenzie made these recordings of their songs and stories between 1973 and 1985 (with the assistance of Denis Turner). As the collectors note, the ready availability of the portable television was already sounding the death knell for the fireside gatherings at which many of these songs were passed on."


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 05:18 AM

Jim,

You are making a meal of this Keith and refusing to respond to all the other articles


No need. If they really were "common throughout Britain" we who live here would have seen one.
We still haven't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 05:23 AM

As you claim not to be a racist, can I assume that you dissociate yourself from Teribus's attempts to smear the Travelling community with the actions of a criminal group?
No?
Thought not!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:01 PM

Sorry Jim but it was you who suggested that they adopted a low profile wrt the police because they knew they were acting illegally - NOT ME.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 02:27 PM

"Sorry Jim but it was you who suggested that they adopted a low profile wrt the police because they knew they were acting illegally -"
And I specified exactly why
You are a racist twat and I'm grateful that you put this discussion into context
Must contact Fred West's neighbours and tell them they are all serial killers.
Mustn't keep you from your cross burning
Jim


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 03:06 PM

Jim, you are over-reacting to an ironic reference to Travellers being over-represented in recent slavery cases.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 03:40 PM

"Jim, you are over-reacting to an ironic reference to Travellers being over-represented in recent slavery cases."
You are a pair of racist scumbags and I'm grateful for the opportunity of showing you what you are
Bye---eeee
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 10:59 PM

A Tale of Simple Traveller Folk

On reading stuff like this one wonders if the Old Testament didn't have it right. The punishment I'd hand down to these animals (Believe me read the article and you will find that to refer to those arrested as animals actually insults animals) would be a term of 20 years (No Remission) with the condition that they be held together in conditions identical to those they held their captives and that they be worked as ruthlessly and relentlessly as their victims were for absolutely no reward at all. Additionally I would seized all their assets which would go towards compensation payments to their victims.

Very true that the above linked article names only four people, however it details a similar number of sites described as "Traveller Sites" - Every single Traveller living on those sites would have had knowledge of exactly what was going on and as they permitted it to continue (Over a 20 year period at least) they, in my mind are as guilty as those arrested. By NOT acting and doing what they must have known to be RIGHT they make themselves guilty by association.

The estimated number of people in the UK being held and treated in the conditions described number between 12,000 & 15,000. It is an absolute f**kin' disgrace, pity the likes of those such as Traveller's Priest Com Mac Gabhann couldn't tear himself away from searching for pub signs that some might take offence to, to address a real problem!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 04:16 AM

Jim,
You are a pair of racist scumbags

Same old Jim, resorting to vacuous name calling because you have no answer or actual argument to make, except "Bye---eeee"
Nothing racist has been said here by anyone.
None of us who live here have seen a single one of those "common throughout Britain" signs in our lives.

Re Labour Party,
Today is Livingstone's suspension hearing over alleged anti-Semititism.
And,
Telegraph 28 March 2017 ? 8:23am
"The Labour party have lost 10,850 members over the last four weeks, official party documents have revealed."


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 05:25 AM

"Keeping a low profile and not drawing police attention to yourself also becomes quite essential when you are engaged in human trafficking and slavery too Jim."
"Nothing racist has been said here by anyone."
There you go
One seig heiler describes the Travelling community as human traffickers abd slaveers - the other says it isn't racist to make such a claim
What more can a girl ask for - the start to a perfect day!!
Two racists wiith one stone
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 05:58 AM

No "claim" Jim, those named in the article posted were all tried, found guilty, convicted and jailed. The "traveller Sites" they operated from were not solely inhabited by members of this family. You tell me how on a small site with people living on small pitches you would completely miss out on the fact that your next door neighbour kept 22 people locked up in a filthy caravan, or unheated container, without washing or toilet facilities for essential human hygiene. And they reckoned that this had been going on for 20 years at least!!

The only "racists" here are the Travellers who deem themselves to be above the law who think they have a "right" to get away with this sort of shit and yell discrimination whenever criticised.

As for Father Con Mac Gabhann we all know how good Roman Catholic Priests are at looking into transgressions committed by their own and their own flock don't we. Possibly 15,000 vulnerable people in the UK being ruthlessly exploited as slaves and being kept in inhumane conditions is nothing compared to signs in pubs that by all accounts appear to be rarer than "Rocking-horse shit" that might, just might, cause offence. Think as a self-proclaimed humanitarian and committed "socialist" Jim you want your priorities recalibrated.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 06:43 AM

See the "Great Leader" has spoken about his support for a "United Ireland" referendum in Northern Ireland based on Brexit. Good I'm all for it, pity that Jezzer doesn't realise it might not lead anywhere as he appears not to have realised that if the result of that referendum in Northern Ireland was for unification, then there would be a second referendum in the Republic as to whether or not they would accept union with the North and the result of that referendum at the moment would in all probability be NO (The Republic of Ireland at the moment just could not take on the running costs of the North).

While he would appear to be all for such a referendum in Northern Ireland Jezzer is dead set against a second independence referendum for Scotland at the moment, he backs Theresa May in saying that any such referendum should only be held after Brexit has been negotiated. Again I totally agree with him.

BBC coverage of the announcement on triggering Article 50 last night was tremendously "Remoaner" biased particularly in Scotland. I found it incredibly strange that no-one seemed interested in explaining the time lines involved. They were discussing things as though things would happen immediately:

29th March, 2017 Article 50 triggered means that the UK will be out of the EU 18 to 24 months hence - so that takes us to 28th March, 2019 before an Bill could be introduced to grant a second independence referendum for Scotland.

The last one granted took just over two years between the Act and the actual referendum so the earliest a second Scottish Independence Referendum could take place would be the summer of 2021 by which time Scotland would definitely NOT be a member of the EU, Scottish businesses (Less than 1/5th of them) who trade exclusively with Europe would have made what adjustments were required to stay in business or market elsewhere between Spring 2019 and summer 2021, while the remainder of Scottish businesses would have been carrying on as normal trading with the rest of the UK and the rest of the world. The electorate of Scotland would not have to listen to the SNP's ludicrous and fantastic claims of "how life would be" as they all did between 2012 and 2014. The result of a second Scottish Independence referendum in the summer of 2021 would IMHO be a resounding NO to independence, but for arguments sake let us imagine that it was YES.

Scotland would have to create it's own currency, or adopt one over which it would have absolutely no control. The SNP Manifesto position is that they firmly back Scotland joining the EU - That after all is this major change that wee nippy keeps stating is the basis for this new referendum. Fast tracked it would take Scotland somewhere between 5 to 10 years to gain entry and membership of the EU and it would have to adopt the Euro as it's currency. So an independent Scotland would become an EU member sometime in the summer between 2026 or 2031. Immediately on joining Scotland would put 65% of it's businesses at risk and suddenly find itself not independent at all because it would have to comply in all respects with the EU that will exist in 10 to 15 years in the future NOT the EU of today - a great deal can change in 10 to 15 years and such change may well not be for the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:01 AM

Travellers in Scotland are not a "race", most of them are from the same stock as myself, but are regarded as a "Special group" due to their chosen lifestyle.

The "special status" accorded to these people has resulted in their encampment moving beyond the law, having to be closed under the pretext of refurbishment and the inhabitants moved to social housing in this area.

Families in this encampment were involved in serious crime which I have documented on other threads. The "special status" allowed this activity to continue unhindered and the police were unable to carry out their normal procedures in fear of discrimination charges.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:04 AM

Thanks for confirming you racism that te Traveller communitry are slave owners and people and Keith was lying when he claimed you were being "iroonical" - all I needed to confirm the motivation for your argments about Travellers here.
To blame an entire community for the crimes of a tiny handful of criminals is racist and to suggest that they kenew what was going on is totally without basis - and no court or no newspaper or media commentator has ever made such an accusation.
To suggest that a priest who has dedicated his life to help Travellers should find something better to do is racist.
You are a racist scumbag and so is Keith for defending you.
The reason that you never saw these common signs was probably because you were too busy looking for Traveller sites to firebomb - that appears to be the type of people you are.
The four (FOUR) criminals were convicted of illegally detaining workers - not of "slavery" or "people trafficking" - that was the racist spin invented by the gutter press and taken up by racists like yourselves.
Half a million Travellers were exterminated by the Nazis, who used arguments like yours to carry out their mass killings.
You accuse a few of us on this forum of having a "team" - take a look at your own nasty little pack - A pair of openly declared racists with Travellers, Muslims and Irish in their cross-hairs, Ake, who, when he isn't persecuting homosexuals and asylum seekers, is defending Trump the Fascist in the White House, and Bobad, who spends his time hysterically implicating The Jewish People by pinning the crimes of the Israeli regime on them.
All you need is a uniform and an insignia.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:11 AM

The blame of course lies in the application of "Special status" to any minority grouping, not to the majority of travellers who in general behave reasonably well.

Just one of the negative effects of "liberalism".


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 07:31 AM

"Travellers in Scotland are not a "race", "
THey may have not been designated a race yet, but DMA tests in Britain have found them to be a genetically identifiable group going back at least a thousand years - the British establishment have yet to get their heads around that fact
Ironically, Travellers living around British cities have been residents in their territory for centuries longer than the newcomer commuters who spend time and energy trying to drive them out.
Ireland has an appalling record of treatment of Travelers, but a couple of months ago it took the first tottering steps to rectifying it by officially announcing in Parliament that Travellers were an ethnic minority
Their lifestyle is not "chosen" (another racist misnomer) - it is one Travellers have been born into for many centuries.
Up to relatively recently, Travellers have been an accepted and essential part of rural life - 'modernisation' has left them in limbo.
They no longer have a protection afforded to them by the Caravan and camping laws which were repealed in 1994 by John Major, they are constantly being moved off unused sites, attempts to make their own sites, like Dale Farm are met with prejudice and hostility, and many Travellers who attempt to settle have been driven out by people who don't want than as neighbours
The woerfully inadequate (in every way) Traveller homes all little more than walled ghettos
Basically, most travellers are deprived of electricity, clean water, sanitation and the right to educate themselves or their children.
Their life expectancy is considerably shorter than that of the settled community.
Nice to have you here Ake - all we need now is Bobad for a full house
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 08:02 AM

Jim,
you racism that te Traveller communitry are slave owners

It is true of some, and not racist to say so. They have been massively over-Represented in recent convictions for slavery.

To blame an entire community for the crimes of a tiny handful of criminals is racist


It is but no-ne has.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 09:03 AM

Hi there Jim, care to fill in some of the gaps?

When was it that I have ever tried to fire bomb anything again? Lead such a busy and eventful life I must have forgotten. As you stated the following - "The reason that you never saw these common signs was probably because you were too busy looking for Traveller sites to firebomb." - You had best have proof of that Jimbo, as throwing those sorts of unfounded accusations about can get one into trouble these days. Oddly enough though I do recall why I have never seen any of those signs you keep wittering on about. It is because, counter to what you claim, they are NOT really all that common at all, in fact if they exist at all they are extremely rare.

By the way Jim, can you tell me the significance of a drawing, sketch, cartoon or painting in which a mouse, or a rat, with a knot tied in its tail appears?


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 09:12 AM

"It is true of some, and not racist to say so."
iIt is inaccurate - none of the four were convicted of keeping slabves - or did I maiss something
It is racist to use the actions of four criminals to smear an entire community - as you well know, having had that pointed out to you over your Muslim claims
T=eribus did just that and you defended him for doing it - making you both racist scum
It hasn't taken too long to move from "I didn't see the signs so they can't be common and are an invention of "Mudcat's liar, Carroll" to branding Travellers as criminals because of the actions of four criminals, has it?
This is what it has been about from the beginning - you should have said so instead of wasting so much time and effort over several threads.
I really am enjoying this now
Carry on Keith
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 09:28 AM

Carroll is odd his meds again - have some pity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 09:36 AM

"Carroll is odd his meds again - have some pity."
Full house!!
Perfect
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: bobad
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 10:00 AM

Please excuse his lunatic ravings, he's just having another bad day. Mental illness will do that to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 11:08 AM

"Mental illness will do that to you."
Mada as I may be, I'm running rings around Laurel and Hardy here
I've dragged them both out of their racist closet, one is saying the other isn't carrying on a campaign against Travellers while the other is saying that he is.
Now I've managed to drag out another two trolls from under their bridges, you the antisemite and Ake the homophobic racist Trumpeter - to try and get them out of the hole they've managed to dig for themselves
Not a bad days work really
You want to add anything here, like all Travellers have got enormous penises and lust after our women
That's the level of argument at present
G'arn - make my day!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 11:43 AM

Jim, on the subject of the firebombing of Travellers Camps it would appear from the examples I have read about, the culprits are "fellow" feuding Traveller families.

Now where is that evidence of me ever having been involved in such an act? Or is this just another Jim Carroll LIE.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Raggytash
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 11:50 AM

Jim did not claim you were firebombing anyone, he said you were PROBABLY looking for sites to do so.

As someone who is so insistent on accuracy I thought I would point this out to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 01:30 PM

"Jom, on the subject of the firebombing of Travellers Camps it would appear from the examples I have read about, the culprits are "fellow" feuding Traveller families."
There you7 go again
You should cancel the BNP literature you are reading
Firebombing sites is as old as pouring petol though the letterboxes of Muslims
Feuding among Traveller families, what there is of it, is largely confined to barefist fighting (same as happens in yor pubs around closing time - or on any street or city in Britain after closing time)
Serous feuding is extremely rare and is often related to a shortage of
sites)
It hits the media because it's considered a good way to denigrate a minority - siort ofd like Big Far Gypsy Weddings.
Your obvious hatred of Travellers is obvious and, if it is something you don't indulge in, it encourages those who do.
But please keep your racist stereotyping up - expose you both as bigots it's not a bad way to end the day
You pair really need a site meeting to get your story straight - one minute your not racists - next minute this filth.
Wot Raggy says - I don't lie - especially when I describe you as racists
Keep it coming
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 01:33 PM

Jim,
iIt is inaccurate - none of the four were convicted of keeping slabves - or did I maiss something

Yes you certainly did Jim!
The Independent
Headline, "Police rescue three male 'slaves' from traveller sites "

"Three men have been rescued after apparently being forced to live in squalid conditions and work for little or no pay in a new case of alleged slavery on travellers' sites."

"Detectives are investigating possible links to Irish traveller groups on sites elsewhere in the UK, where vulnerable men from Britain and abroad are said to have been kept enslaved in the face of threats of violence."

"The arrests follow a number of cases involving the forced labour of the vulnerable at traveller camps that have gone to court over the past two years,"


"In the first case of its kind, four people were jailed last year after a raid at Bedfordshire site in 2011 revealed the existence of 23 dirty and emaciated men who were forced to work under fear of extreme violence.
A powerful traveller family made money out of the victims
who were addicts they picked up from the streets and soup kitchens and forced to work for little money.
In a separate case, five members of an Irish traveller family were found guilty in December last year of keeping their own private workforce in Gloucestershire, Leicestershire and Nottinghamshire and paying them as little as £5 a day for their work."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/police-rescue-three-male-slaves-from-traveller-sites-8991784.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 01:34 PM

I think that accusing someone of mental illness on an internet forum should get you expelled. The accuser is generally not a doctor, and, even if he is, he is not the doctor of the person he's accusing of being mentally ill. It's a shabby and immature tactic which marks you out as a loser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 02:13 PM

"Police rescue three male 'slaves' from traveller sites "


I am sure you will notice that the word 'slaves' is in quotes. I suggest you ask ake about quotes. They mean that the word between them is not necessarily being used in the standard way.

DtG


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 02:18 PM

Jim's posts in the last few months have become more irrational than usual.....disturbingly so.

Every post contains the same pejorative expressions and charges for which he has no evidential validation.

His latest outrage against Teribus of perhaps being capable of firebombing travellers camps, is fairly typical of a deranged personality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Uk Labour Party discussion II
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 17 - 02:46 PM

Yes, I guess from that side of the fence caring about people and wanting equality for all may seem deranged. Given the choice between someone does care and someone who wants to restrict freedoms for some and opposes anyone bettering themselves I wonder which sane people would chose?

DtG


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